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School is in Session 6: Road to Apex! Results Thread! BRACKETS UP! :D

Krystedez

Awaken the Path
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It's not bias. One word: GAME. It was up when I came and Sheik was the victor. That's all I had to see and that's all I had to know for sure that Sheik had won, but after WATCHING the match ... oh boy... It's so OBVIOUS that it's the case.

I mean, seeing the stream and the pause would make me feel infinitely better about which way to think of this.

In other words Mega, Judo paused on accident, unpaused, and Olimar was dead. Whether the pause was after or during the hit I don't know but CAN be confirmed by the stream. There was no intentionality of the pause by any means.
 

MegaRobMan

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The way ripple made it sound, ya know, the HYPE, makes it sound like he did mean to pause, and if that's the case or if it isn't the case, it's completely stupid and unfair from the way you are wording it, but I still side with Logic here, rules are rules.

I've lost in a teams match before because someone paused before they died to steal a life in melee.......it's tough but you learn to keep your finger from sliding to the pause button after some practicing.

:toonlink::drmario:it doesn't matter what the intent (or lack of intent) was, he still paused.
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
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nothing is "inescapable" in this game. Is Judo a machine who doesn't mess up? People SD in this game, that could have happened before he died, especially if it was a STARKO. Some people have insane DI capabilities. Who knows, maybe Judo was about to trip, it's brawl, remember? I obviously wasn't there, but from the sounds of it, if I was Logic I'd have done the same thing and I would have gone crazy if I was told to replay the match. And apparently Logic won the rematch. Brawl don't lie.
sheik's explosion hitbox to wind box does not allow the opponent to DI, air dodge or special out of the hit stun. it is inescapable on everyone but MK

Logic even went to on to say that he could have SDI'd out of the second hit of up-smash so he wouldn't have died. Logic disn't know , however, that the second hit actually makes the opponent slow down making it kill at a higher %.

last time I checked, you can't trip just standing.
 

What's The Point

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Naw, Logic was 100% dead before the pause even occurred. He was falling with an U-air and got hit by a Shiek Upsmash at like 120%. I don't remember if the pause happened before or after the Upsmash actually connected, but it was out and on top of Olimar.

See look, video proof.
 

MegaRobMan

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That's tough, but I think the correct rule would be Logic wins :/ You can't just decide to play by certain rules unless it's discussed earlier than after the match.
 

Krystedez

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the upsmash connected according to that video, he was in hitstun/lag whatever its called from the second hit it looks like.

Game.

Also @ cheese:
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard XDDDDDDD I suppose you're going to tell me it takes skill to avoid pressing the pause button. You know, jumping for joy, freaking out, sliding your thumb and hitting it. I mean all of this would be solved if pause was turned off by TOs or players in the first place. Instead of having a ******** rule like pausing causing stock-loss, that's just some way of letting a worse player get by because of an accident and doesn't accurately portray the skill level of players.

I mean seriously, I've done this so many times and never has it once happened that I've been called out on it. I paused during a match because my thumb slipped doing a dacus. I would immediately apologize and await their reaction, and not once has it become an issue.

Logic didn't win.

http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/b/295968381

1:04:00
1:04:48 is when the pause occurs.
Btw thank you Ran, appreciate you looking that up.
 

Tink

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megarobrob said:
I've lost in a teams match before because someone paused before they died to steal a life in melee.......it's tough but you learn to keep your finger from sliding to the pause button after some practicing.
(yayy a reason to post)

lolll...for the record, this was never really a rule in melee till after brawl did it, and then things kinda just worked over :/....almost all pros in melee(to this day), when theres a pause, never take the match orr stock.....i cant believe it decides so many big brawl matches :/. its dissapointing. i know its in the rules, but i mean, this isnt ****ing street fighter 0_0....i thought our community was tighter :/.
 

MegaRobMan

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Tink that signature makes me want to MM you, you gonna come out to Nebraska anytime soon, cawcacawcacaw!

I think that's a rule in every competitive video game, if you pause, you are penalized.
 

Krystedez

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wtf ninjaed, but @tink^thank you, this was being discussed over Steak and Shake..

"This never happens in 'Street Fighter' and 'Melee' ", like that is the most true thing.
 

Leaf.

Gets up to speed!
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Dang I went to Dallas :(
He used to use pika, uses mostly ICs now.

I was thinking he actually didn't use IC at this tournament...looks like his soul is still lost.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Regardless of whether Judo deserved the win or not [and I think we all can agree that he virtually won the set] you can't blame Logic for what has happened. By the way the ruleset is defined Logic was the rightful winner of the set and even then he agreed to do the rematch, something he didn't have to do as he could've just claimed the win. I don't know what kind of person he is but going against the rules just to give Judo another chance was a pretty legit move on his part.

This is the same fallacy as people accusing M2K for taking free wins via planking. No, the players aren't the ones to blame. It's the people who created the ruleset and those who agreed to use it that are responsible. Improve the rules and stop blaming the individuals that are affected in an unfortunate manner.

:059:
 

Eddie G

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Morals people, morals. If you just got **** on like you were in a combo video...just take the loss. Judo was completely calm despite knowing that he might get ripped off, while Logic was frantically trying to plead his case with "frame data" this and "I could have buffered a whistle" that. It was clear that when Judo accidentally paused (he's not the kind of guy who would do it on purpose, trust me)...the hit had already connected. Those of you arguing a black-and-white case are just copping out, plain and simple. Judo won.

Shoutouts to come.

:phone:
 

Omni

You can't break those cuffs.
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Judo won.
Love all of you, but you really have to get your definition of "won" straight.

Things like this happen all the time in Sports. Football players getting flagged a yard before a touchdown. Touchdowns/field goals being reversed AFTER the touchdown/field goal was successful. No sport is excluded from last minute fouls from plays that did actually win the game.

Same thing occurred here.

Judo did not get the win, but he sure as hell got all the respect. He won in spirit. Logic knows it. We all know it. And that's something Logic is going to have to take with him moving forward (as well as losing to Peach right after :yeahboi: ) .

Personally, I don't think I could have done it. If I lost to a Sheik. Straight up legit? I'm giving that dude his W. I play to win (duh, maining MK) but I mean... **** a pause button. Kid pressed all the right ones before that.
 

Ori_bro

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If it helps more, I used :metaknight:/:popo:/:marth:

But yeah I don't see it necessary to post on the Logic/Judo incident. Everyone there knew who the winner was and its a shame he couldn't move on the play Coney.

Also, the pic in OP is awesome and I'm glad I started the Judo cross lol.

:phone:
 

Mew2King

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that makes him the 3rd person i know in VvV that willingly won a game due only to pausing when otherwise would have lost.

this is exactly why "official" rules like no pausing shouldn't be this way. When some situations are very obvious, such as the result GUARANTEED to be the same (or in other cases 99.9% likely) like already dying or clearly dead, like this case. I haven't seen the video yet, but from what people here and on facebook are saying, the result was guaranteed to be the same either way (he was dead). For future reference, a TO should be the decider of these situations (even though some may be biased most will not, and it's still better than this) instead of having an official rule for it which can be very flawed.

omni - yeah i keep editing instead of double posting like i used to
 

Omni

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Lol. I saw that ninja edit, Jason.

Your skills are improving. :yeahboi:
 

Keitaro

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Besides...stock loss is a vague and un-enforcable rule if the opponent is already dead... WTP I respect you but seriously anyone looking at this in such a black and white format from EITHER side (oh, it was inescapable, Judo wins OR oh, he paused, Judo loses!) is wrong.

The fact is, stock loss is what should have occured by conventional means, SD or KO by Logic himself, neither of which were possible during that time, so in other words, Judo should have won instead of having the entire game invalidated and having to play game 3 all over again.
Stock lost didn't mean the player had to sd or get killed, it means the player auto loses a stock in that case the game should have not continued after the pause.

That rule does need to be changed though.

Great job running this Today!
 

Mew2King

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well like, what % was the up smash? I feel like, if it's SUPER OBVIOUS that he woulda died, then it should still count. This isn't MLG, it doesn't have to be super-duper-official-like. logic (not the smasher logic) should be applied here imo

if it was at a % that would have been livable otherwise then the pause thing should go in effect.
 

ZTD | TECHnology

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:O

Tech Chase...

What happened?
I lost to Infern and Fizzle....Fizzle used :popo: against my :dedede: Game 3. Its cool though, they're both great players that I don't mind losing to.

I feel like I should be 25th since I did win a set actually. But oh well its not even that serious. I did alright, but I just need to step it up. This tournament taught me a lot. I walked away pretty satisfied :)

:phone:
 

MechaWave

Smash Champion
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:O

Tech Chase...

What happened?
People going ape**** over how the ruleset claims Logic won because Judo accidentally paused. Logic was obviously going to lose and the hit before the usmash or whatever already connected... from what I have gathered.

If that's what you're asking. I do rightfully believe Judo won the set.
 

Radium88

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Awesome tournament! Shoutouts later!


Kudos to Judo for doing a great job but I feel like since it's in the rules, Logic does win. You all know that if it was the other way around, there would be an uprising to be enforcing the rules rather than go against it. Double standards. I'm a woman, I know what those are.
 

Mew2King

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yeah that is another problem ripple. If people can judge it, it's going to be based on who they like more or who is in their region. So every system is going to be flawed either way, which is why I believe the best thing is to not have an official rule for it at all. No matter what a rule or people's bias will make systems flawed guaranteed unfortunately. But I still think the rule has already caused more damage now and in the past than people's bias (and I doubt somebody like Today would have any bias at all) would. It's better by comparison to the "lose a stock" rule, which is obviously a bunch of bull****.
 

Omni

You can't break those cuffs.
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Psht.

I'd be bias for a Sheik over Olimar any day.

:yeahboi:

Can we not let this small mishap cover the fact that Nicole beasted MD/OH with Peach.
 

Overswarm

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Didn't see it, but rules are meant to be abused. If someone pauses, take the win and make fun of the TO for keeping a bad rule. If other people agree it is a bad rule, they will be upset about it as well. If this is the case, rule is removed.

The only logical solution is turning pause off, but that takes effort on the TOs part and thus will never become standard. One TO might do it, but not every TO, and they certainly won't know what to do when it comes to a station that had pause turned back on. :B



But to what's really important:

Who got a bye from me? I better have been placed in brackets XD
 

Mew2King

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people agreeing doesn't justify something being right, but it helps. I don't care if 99/100 people think the lose a stock rule for pausing is okay. I still say and am sure that it isn't, because of extreme situations like this it's OBVIOUS. The TO should be the decider for future reference (not necessarily this time but for future reference it should be)

I cant argue this now tough cuz I have class like right now so bye
 

MechaWave

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As do I, M2K.

I will discuss this after classes and see the further justifications and posts people say. ba
 

Pyronic_Star

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jason, i'm not in VVV -.-


so just to shine light on what went through my head...

i was fully aware that taking the win is morally wrong and that i would receive a lot of hate for it. at the end of the day i had to ask myself what is my job as a competitor... and that's to win by any means within the rules. if this was a local, i wouldn't have taken the win but it was a large event and to top it off the 4 players left in the bracket i was fully capable of beating... i'm very good against snake, that was the first day i ever lost to nicole in tourny, me and shugo are 1-1 and i have a winning record against conney. with that being said, i felt that taking the win and wining the tourny (around $350) would have been worth it... i mean i just made a 19 hour trip and had to pay over $100. due to those thoughts, i knew that i would regret blowing a chance at $350 more than the hate i would receive for taking the victory. that was my view on it and why i made the decision that i did. i did play him again to try to make it slightly more honorable opposed to taking the win. i suggested at one point but neither of them heard me or day was deciding on either just a win/lost ant that was it. so later when he suggested it i said that was fine with no hesitation *shrugs*

now to actually talk about what occurred, the vid shows that he paused as i was hit... but shieks up-smash has two hit boxes and i know it has been said that you can't sdi it or w/e but i don't actually know that, and another player claims he does it all the time. i was at 103 when i was hit also and supposedly it kills at 90 but eh :/ was there a chance that i could have lived, yes. was it likely, no.
Day didn't want to give me the win, but tbh... i never should have had to even make the decision. there is a rule in place and i actually should have even been given the option to give judo the win due to the fact that the rule was broken. granted this was an extreme circumstance and very unfortunate one for judo, every player has the option to request pause off and the request can't be denied, i actually took my start button out so i will never have to worry about this situation ever.

and for the people saying they wouldn't have done it in my situation... i actually would like to see someone shove $350 in your face and you say no (granted i lost, that is how i looked at the situation).
and if the roles were switched, would i be mad... yes! but it'd be more a mix of anger at the rule/myself. i never fault a player for doing anything within the rules to beat me, if it's legal, i as a player should be fully aware of it and accept any consequence for breaking a rule since i entered the event knowing the ruleset. to clarify again, this last section is directed to people speaking about the situation, not judo.

as messed up as this sounds... judo, i apologize for taking the win and not winning the rest of the event. i thought i would win, and that would make it worth it, obviously i lost... and thus it wasn't.


TLDR: my job as a competitor is to try to win by anything within the rules, and favorable odds of winning $350 seemed worth taking the win over judo.
and also, either take your start button out or make sure pause is off to avoid things such as this

edit: just outta curiosity, can you really be that mad at me for following a rule that has more or less been in place since mlg?

and shoutout's later cause some people put in mad work
 

Supreme Dirt

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People going ape**** over how the ruleset claims Logic won because Judo accidentally paused. Logic was obviously going to lose and the hit before the usmash or whatever already connected... from what I have gathered.

If that's what you're asking. I do rightfully believe Judo won the set.
Oh I know about the logic-judo thing, I more meant his placing.

And fair enough, TC.
 

Juushichi

sugoi ~ sugoi ~
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Nicole ***** really hard and msn everyone in the building was mad that Judo lost, but hey. The rule was in the OP. It might be discussed later be the BBR-RC (at least two TO's from the group were present) but for now we know that Judo lost.

But god-****ing-damnit.

Shoutouts to Nicole for doing huge amounts of work and narrowly missing out on that stipend.
Shoutouts to all of the God Kais for being funny as **** the entire tournament and for the god kai challenge.
Shoutouts to Brawl- singles and doubles, mad legit.
Shoutouts to coney being ****ing awesome and Luigi minus being almost as ridiculous as when he was first thought up.
Shoutouts to TKBro being mad chill and his commentary being legit alongside AZ and coney.
Shoutouts to Fonz coming down for teams.
And also for tmacc and hades putting Fonz and Kel in losers. Holy ****!
Last for the time: shoutouts to me beating Hades in pools and not being good to get out.

Thugs beat Ori lol.

:phone:
 

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
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Nicole we need to play more Falco vs Peach.

GJ everone.
 

Today

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The results for singles has been posted for now. Bracket would be up later and such!

And I do think that pausing should be off so this problem can be avoided. Both are amazing players, and I'd hate for this to happen to other amazing players.
 

sneakytako

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Honestly, talking about how Logic won on a technicality or how Judo should have won is crying over spilled milk. At this point the better discussion what the proper response is to this kind of situation, what allowed this situation to occur, and the countermeasure that will be taken. This pause issue BS has gone on long enough, I think we would all like to see Brawl Ruleset commitee to have serious discussion on how to fix the issue.

But I think this issue is a little more diffiicult than just saying 'all tournies should have pause disabled'. What happens when this rule isn't followed? Do we replay the set? Because if I see that my oppenent hasn't noticed that pause isn't disabled after stage striking, I could easily pause right before losing the first game and reset the set count. Is the current rule of punishing the pause initator if an accidental pause occurs 'fair'? I feel this is debatable and depends on the circumstances, an example being this situation. Really the responsilibty needs to be with the TOs, they need to confirm that pause is off for each setup. There needs to be incentive that punishes TOs if pause isn't turned off and becomes an issue. I'm not saying Today should be punished because this occured, but if this issue happens again in some other tournament the TOs should be taking some heat if there is a pause disabled rule in effect.
 

Pelca

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Nicole you should have practiced with me more while you were in NE, then you woulda beat freego!






shugo*
 
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