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Samus' playstyle has shifted

Forblazen

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 9, 2018
Messages
12
Hi! I see a lot of people saying that Samus is dead now that she seemingly lost everything she had, but she has quite a few good things going for her.

Her grab endlag is much faster
Her nair is much faster
Edgeguarding is much more of a focus in this game, and Fair helps killing and covering lots of options off stage
Super missiles stay in place, and normal missiles have better homing.
and most importantly:
Perfect Shielding is much riskier to do now.

So she's definitely not a brawler in the way that her dash attack and dthrow led to combos, however, super missile creates opportunity for combos thanks to its delay and angle, the delay makes it so you can easily dash forward with the super missile and cover options.

If they shield it, you are conditioning them to shield super missiles, which makes setups for charge shots shield breaks more available.
if they get caught, you land a combo
if they jump to avoid the missile you can jump and do an upair, and even follow it up if there are battlefield platforms (I was able to do the ladder combo to death doing this)

Charge shot being able to be charged in the air also makes it insanely good, as you can run away and charge it much safer, and it doesnt seem like Sam's recovery has been nerfed significantly.


I feel like the changes made to Sam make her rely a lot more on projectiles than before, but that means reflectors are insanely difficult to deal with as well, I haven't found a way to reliably beat reflectors (As most of them can be counters or have little end lag), grab exists, but its difficult to get a follow up, though maybe with the buffed aerials, one could down throw and read the next move and attack accordingly? (Like, airdodge, jump, or attack after chasing with a dthrow), this is mostly the main weakness I see in her kit, but the rest feels pretty damn solid imo
 

KX17

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 8, 2018
Messages
6
Forblazen, I have notice that a lot of Samus combo game is with the confide of her projectiles. (Even her sister- shot and charge shots) I can say that her D-grab can lead to 50/50 not completely true combos but can get away with a lot of down throw set up. I do question this since early percent you can get away with a D-Grab to run short hop N-air. So my only comment about D-throws combo is dependent on Samus'es and the opponents %(and weight at times). I would like to add that all her tilts seem situational, but her jab and D-tilt are very effective.
 

Forblazen

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 9, 2018
Messages
12
Forblazen, I have notice that a lot of Samus combo game is with the confide of her projectiles. (Even her sister- shot and charge shots) I can say that her D-grab can lead to 50/50 not completely true combos but can get away with a lot of down throw set up. I do question this since early percent you can get away with a D-Grab to run short hop N-air. So my only comment about D-throws combo is dependent on Samus'es and the opponents %(and weight at times). I would like to add that all her tilts seem situational, but her jab and D-tilt are very effective.
I understand this, but the point of the thread is mostly showcase the playstyle shift from Smash4 to SmashU, I do know DThrow and dash attack can still work at certain percents, but it's not the main tool in samus' kit to consider it efficient as a playstyle around it
 

Savage1

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
14
It's small, but I really like the change they made to her bombs. Now they not only have timers, but also activate when another player touches them. For now, I found the to be great at throwing the opponent off when you know they're going to rush you, as well as a good way to set up a charge shot.
 

Spywave

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
2
As far as her being dependent on her projectiles, I wouldn't completely agree. I've been playing her with minimal amount of projectiles. She definitely benefits from her aerials like fAir, and uAir because they stay out so long and demand so much range and respect just due to how good they are. While her dash isn't very impressive, you can do a lot of stuff by shortening the runstop animation into a move like dTilt. That move is extremely fast and can even kill at higher percents. At low percents, it sets up for combos, you get the idea. So playing her in a more close-range style is definitely possible, and worth trying out.
 

Dunharrow

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
26
I find I have the most success when I try to play keep away. Make the enemy Engage on my terms. If I'm struggling or losing too hard I often find its because I was getting too aggressive.
 

Spywave

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
2
I find I have the most success when I try to play keep away. Make the enemy Engage on my terms. If I'm struggling or losing too hard I often find its because I was getting too aggressive.
Are you playing Online? Results vary quite a bit offline compared to online. Most people play lagbuffed characters like K. Rool, Incineroar, Snake, etc.
Not to take that away from you, but online is a completely different metagame, unfortunately. I think she's effective at playing keep away, but other characters do seem better than her in that department.
 

Manic Glint

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 4, 2014
Messages
6
NNID
AmphyTheDragon
I like using her lighter projectiles (uncharged B, missiles, zair, bombs) to interrupt or break the momentum of the opponent and then go in with a grab or an aerial once they're off balance for a second. Kinda run around shooting crap out and then rushing in at the right time
 

Iwan

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
826
Location
Leesburg, VA
Eh.

I think a lot of the people that claim "samus is dead" are players who never truly put a ton of time into the character in any previous iteration anyway. She's always been a character who requires no less than "very good" players to pilot her effectively. If you're even remotely ok at predicting opponent movement in advance, moves like her up air and Fair are still insanely good punishes. Charge shot ****s with people's heads, lot of set ups and mix ups and a pretty reliable way to get KOs at fairly low percentages. Legit, actual confirmed combos (Up air > Up air > Up b, etc). Great recovery. Can get in someone's face and apply pressure but can also camp.

She's good. I think there are a lot of characters in this game, and I think a lot of players haven't taken the time with her yet. She isn't AMAZING. She certainly isn't BAD, either. She's Mid Tier, imo. Better than quite a few characters.
 

BlackCephie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2014
Messages
203
Ive always been a Samus main, but after last night's tourney, I think she may be the strongest she has ever been since Melee, truth be told I think she is even stronger than that. At first I thought being able to charge up while in the air was a fairly small buff because I wasnt used to it, but after experimenting with it I think this option makes her incredibly scary.

Because she can jump cancel it and go right back into charging, it puts the opponent in a situation where they are walled off simply by the threat of her being able to let charge shot rip at any time, OR mix them up. Even when they are fairly close to Samus, they know that if they drop shield, roll, jump or whatever, she can tag them with a partially charged shot and reset the neutral. Moreover, when she goes back into the air she can either continue charging and threatening with the potential charge shot, or she can fire a missile (mixes up timing and pressures shield without losing your charge), drop a bomb (if they try to get under you), zair (to get a free aerial option with amazing range that stuffs out jump options and allows you to act immediately upon landing) or throw out an aerial (to go into immediate offense and change the pace of the fight). This means they always have to guess even when they have closed the distance, and any one of those option can stuff their neutral depending on what they do versus your option select. You can even just punish shield with grab. A power missile (that is not parried) will do a massive amount of shield damage and put them in a scenario where their shield could easily be broken, OR you can continue your pressure and shield stab with dtilt or ftilt which puts them in the same messed up catch 22.

On top of all this, landing against Samus is DAMN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE to do safely when she is fully charged. OMG this right here. Off stage, same situation. If your opponent air dodges at ALL, they die. If they get hit by a missile they die. if they land, and you are in a position to fire off your full charge, they still die. Its insane how reliable her frame traps are.
 

Txukasa

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 21, 2016
Messages
10
Ive always been a Samus main, but after last night's tourney, I think she may be the strongest she has ever been since Melee, truth be told I think she is even stronger than that. At first I thought being able to charge up while in the air was a fairly small buff because I wasnt used to it, but after experimenting with it I think this option makes her incredibly scary.

Because she can jump cancel it and go right back into charging, it puts the opponent in a situation where they are walled off simply by the threat of her being able to let charge shot rip at any time, OR mix them up. Even when they are fairly close to Samus, they know that if they drop shield, roll, jump or whatever, she can tag them with a partially charged shot and reset the neutral. Moreover, when she goes back into the air she can either continue charging and threatening with the potential charge shot, or she can fire a missile (mixes up timing and pressures shield without losing your charge), drop a bomb (if they try to get under you), zair (to get a free aerial option with amazing range that stuffs out jump options and allows you to act immediately upon landing) or throw out an aerial (to go into immediate offense and change the pace of the fight). This means they always have to guess even when they have closed the distance, and any one of those option can stuff their neutral depending on what they do versus your option select. You can even just punish shield with grab. A power missile (that is not parried) will do a massive amount of shield damage and put them in a scenario where their shield could easily be broken, OR you can continue your pressure and shield stab with dtilt or ftilt which puts them in the same messed up catch 22.

On top of all this, landing against Samus is DAMN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE to do safely when she is fully charged. OMG this right here. Off stage, same situation. If your opponent air dodges at ALL, they die. If they get hit by a missile they die. if they land, and you are in a position to fire off your full charge, they still die. Its insane how reliable her frame traps are.

Yeaaaaaaa No - Smash Ultimate Samus is no where as good as melee samus, let's not tell lies here Johnny. She's decent, but just because you find uses for what she has, does not mean she doesn't have glaring disadvantages too that are worse than her older counterparts. Also i'd be down to see some of those vods of your tournament play. I'm not trying to take anything away from you, but I'd really like to see how your opponent was playing, because from the sound of it - your opponent was letting you do w/e you wanted, which is really not how it goes with samus at high level play.
 

Downshift

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
325
Yeaaaaaaa No - Smash Ultimate Samus is no where as good as melee samus, let's not tell lies here Johnny. She's decent, but just because you find uses for what she has, does not mean she doesn't have glaring disadvantages too that are worse than her older counterparts. Also i'd be down to see some of those vods of your tournament play. I'm not trying to take anything away from you, but I'd really like to see how your opponent was playing, because from the sound of it - your opponent was letting you do w/e you wanted, which is really not how it goes with samus at high level play.
What disadvantages? Are you comparing SSBU Samus to SSBB or SSB4 Samus?
 

Reila

the true enemy of humanity is anime
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
9,240
Location
Alma
Are you playing Online? Results vary quite a bit offline compared to online. Most people play lagbuffed characters like K. Rool, Incineroar, Snake, etc.
Not to take that away from you, but online is a completely different metagame, unfortunately. I think she's effective at playing keep away, but other characters do seem better than her in that department.
Haven't heard this "online doesn't count" elitist talk in a while. Yawn.
 

Crooked Crow

drank from lakes of sorrow
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
2,248
Yeaaaaaaa No - Smash Ultimate Samus is no where as good as melee samus, let's not tell lies here Johnny. She's decent, but just because you find uses for what she has, does not mean she doesn't have glaring disadvantages too that are worse than her older counterparts. Also i'd be down to see some of those vods of your tournament play. I'm not trying to take anything away from you, but I'd really like to see how your opponent was playing, because from the sound of it - your opponent was letting you do w/e you wanted, which is really not how it goes with samus at high level play.
She is a stronger character in Ultimate that doesn't have to play super defensively and rely on crouch-cancelling to see any semblance of success. Also, Sheik invalidates Samus in that game and everybody knows it.
 

zblaqk

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 30, 2015
Messages
177
Samus is actually super slippery once you get her wavebouncing and b reverses down. Plus with the less lag on missiles, full hop into HM, then land doing SM is super fast. Mix in Zair and its really hard to deal with. In fact, I find that using her projectiles is important to her success, as her main "get-off me" aerial is Nair, which combos into an already shot HM.
 

Dsull

Smash Ace
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
536
Location
Nebraska
3DS FC
5301-0115-2290
The bombs are actually a valid tactic now.
Frequently i'll drop bombs backing up or jump over an edgeholder and drop a bomb then just back off, the bomb either hits them as they jump or lands on them most of the time.
I can tell people online are NOT used to people using bombs too so might be a bit biased because of that. I'm actually doing oddly well with DSamus, probably be elite smash if i didnt keep facing 1stock inklings/item games/normal levels with hazards....

Her grab feels far more reliable than other games imo, but doesnt mean much since none of her throws are reliable combos...i stopped trying the dthrow into fair because more often than not it misses and i get left hanging for counterattack.

My playstyle with her has been mixing it up between projectile lobbing and in-your-face attacks. Her tilts are strong and bombs offer that megamanlemon stun - just long enough to follow up if they have any real damage on them already
 

Porygon2

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
225
Samus is actually super slippery once you get her wavebouncing and b reverses down. Plus with the less lag on missiles, full hop into HM, then land doing SM is super fast. Mix in Zair and its really hard to deal with. In fact, I find that using her projectiles is important to her success, as her main "get-off me" aerial is Nair, which combos into an already shot HM.
This is on point—backward wavebounce charging is huge. Hug the stage with it to cover mid–low recoveries with the threat of the shot, jump cancel into walls of f-airs.
 

Kankato

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 5, 2013
Messages
239
Location
SoCal
Coming from melee (and completely skipping Brawl/Smash 4) I would say that Samus lost a lot of her cancels but gained utility on other moves.

Tilt missiles cannot land cancel but are now actually viable in neutral due to the knock back increase.

Tap missiles don't punch as hard and cannot land cancel but are still usable as fireballs due to their startup freeze. It allows you to actually advance slightly in front of missiles this time instead of being constantly behind them.

Uair is now usable! It went from being extremely weak but cancellable in melee to an actual attacking move! She can shark people with her floaty fall speed and converts so well off of her launches.

The new Nair is a fair trade off. It hits just as hard as melee Nair but doesn't have the meaty properties. Trading one for another is fair imo.

Air charging is huge. It allows Samus to get access to her best tool so much easier. I expect to see a lot more semi charged and fully charged shots in this game than melee.

The lack of wavedashing and weakened crouch cancel massively change her movement game but the boost in projectile damage and the slight buff in range (as well as a slower cast overall) immensely offset this. She's not nearly as ground heavy as she was in melee and can now use her floaty jumps to threaten space so much more effectively.
 
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