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Samus off the ledge options vs. Charizard (and other Spacing characters)

Tha_Shogun_12

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
394
Location
Camden, AR
Ok so I was in losers finals at RSB1 about two weeks ago and I the lovely chance to play spacious Iori and the spacious Charizard. When I controlled the middle I think I did very decent but when I was on the ledge I was in lots of pain, getting either trades not in my favor or punished. I'll show the link to the video (it's the first match):


I also noticed that I have this similar issue with Marth and other characters that can control the ledge fairly good (Sheik, Ganon, etc). Anybody know of any good mixup options to prevent this or is it just read dependent? Any help is appreciated, thanks.
 

cisyphus

Smash Ace
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
672
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
you're waiting far too long before getting off of ledge, too. Every frame you wait is a frame less of invincibility any option you select has.
 

pooch182

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
253
Location
Naperville
3DS FC
4227-3177-9014
Right off the bat, you rolled in against spacing that is meant to counter our really good roll from ledge. He spaced the same way when you came off ledge at 35 seconds, and he was too far in stage for fair to be worthwhile, not to mention he was well within the percents to just CC that **** and murder you for picking the wrong option.

You need to pay attention to what your opponent is spacing for at the ledge, because if you don't, you're going to just get super ****ed up. Charizard was using flame breath and you did like a normal ledge dash and just got burned. What did you expect would happen? Know your options from ledge, what is and isn't invincible (literally like only AI and roll is invincible enough to matter), and what spacing to look for from the opponent.

Roll in is a surprisingly good option against opponents who get too close to the ledge for their own good, especially if they're in percentages where they could easily CC your fair from ledge. If somebody is within the outer 1/3rd of the platforms on BF (so like, closer to the ledge), that's usually the spacing I look for when I want to roll in. If I had a dollar for every time a Marth whiffed an Fsmash on me at that spacing, I wouldn't need to go to Aurora for free money tourneys. Of course, you're susceptible to traps like dtilt pivot grab (in the case of Marth), but it's a better scenario than just eating **** and dying.

Aerial interrupt is a really good means of catching the opponent off guard with a long range tilt from the ledge. If you get your AI into shield, AI into ftilt, AI into dtilt, and AI into grab really polished, you'll have a much easier time on the ledge in general.

Forward air from ledge is obviously a go to play in a lot of scenarios. It's probably what I use most, and I'll be honest, I overuse it and get punished a lot. Pay attention to your opponents percents and what they're doing at the ledge against you. Are they short hopping a lot? Punish that. Is their back to you? Punish that. Fire forward air fast falled into screw attack is a really good option on the opponent, and can very easily shield poke and put you in an advantageous position, or reset to neutral at the very least.

Haxdashing is also pretty good. I don't know if we have an invincible Hax dash in PM, but I know we don't in Melee, but it's still a really good way to trick up the opponent, as well as refresh your tether in case you do end up getting hit again.
 

cisyphus

Smash Ace
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
672
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
^^You can technically invincible hax dash with Aerial Interrupt in Melee. It's not exactly the same but it effectively does the same thing

Pooch with the good advice tho
 
Last edited:

Tha_Shogun_12

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
394
Location
Camden, AR
I'll look at the AI deal but now taking a second look at the video myself I see exactly where I messed up at. I just did the wrong reads on the ledge as I'm use to more opponents approaching. Thanks for the advice anyways guys.
 

Orion Prime

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 22, 2014
Messages
41
Location
AL
Not something to do often, but ledge hop zair is another mixup to tag players who hang way back on the ledge or are running to edgeguard from across stage.
 
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