Guide Samus/Dark Samus Competitive Guide

[Dr. Jay]

Dr. Jay submitted a new resource:

Samus/Dark Samus Competitive Guide - A general guide to high level play with samus

How’s it going, I’m dr jay and I’m back with another guide, this time on Samus and Dark Samus





Intro:


Samus to me has always felt like the chess players character, she has always been pretty slow so her combo game relies less on fast inputs and more on clean, precise moves and lots of reads and reactions. One second samus is waiting across the stage charging her neutral b and preventing bad approaches with missiles, but like a space cobra, the next...

Read more about this resource...

 

[CappnPlanet]

Hi, I was looking for a guide like this! Your writing is on point. Will be implementing what you've written. Any true combos that you've observed so far?

 

[Dr. Jay]

Hi, I was looking for a guide like this! Your writing is on point. Will be implementing what you've written. Any true combos that you've observed so far?

Hey, thanks! So here’s the deal- there are many true combos but they are almost all situational, or by character. Like there’s the obvious missile to charge shot and frame trap stuff, but everything is character specific. I will say that down throw is your best bet for combos, but it’s not as cut and dry as in smash 4. There is almost always a true follow up but trajectories are weird so you have to know which aerial to use on reaction, because it will be different at most percents.
Sorry for the really vague answer, but if I find any specific crazy ones I will let you know!

 

[Aeriesune0]

Great Video Dr Jay. Keep them coming! Can you talk about using Samus' down b followed up by a Zair. I heard this will break shields, this is the true?

 

[Dr. Jay]

Great Video Dr Jay. Keep them coming! Can you talk about using Samus' down b followed up by a Zair. I heard this will break shields, this is the true?

Hey man, thanks! So I haven’t heard anything about this, but I definitely know that morph bomb to zair does not break shields. Maybe someone has found a way to do some crazy infinite shield pressure thing, but this does not seem likely at all to me.
What will break shields is a full charge shot plus down b, or basically any other move along with charge shot. Zair as an offensive spacing move is pretty darn useful, but it does basically no percent, knockback, or shield damage. Let me know if I’m wrong though, more ways to break shields is always good!

 

[CMR_Down]

Really enjoyed this video. Appreciate you taking the time to explain some specific differences between Samus and Dark Samus AND how it can be implemented into competitive play. I feel like most people have just been grouping the 2 together and moving on. Keep up the great work.

 

[Dr. Jay]

Really enjoyed this video. Appreciate you taking the time to explain some specific differences between Samus and Dark Samus AND how it can be implemented into competitive play. I feel like most people have just been grouping the 2 together and moving on. Keep up the great work.

Thanks a bunch man! I try to keep stuff beginner friendly but I personally only care about competitive play, so I’d never skip a chance to talk about something like that lol. My next guide will be one about stage pick strategy, so if you’re into tournaments (or just wanna know if battlefield or fd is a better pick for online preferences) check that out like next week on my channel. Thanks again for taking the time to give such positive feedback, cheers!

 

[White_Pointer]

Unfortunately there's some incorrect information in the guide. It would have been a good idea to hop into the Samus discord to ask some questions before doing this.

First off Dark Samus has a faster back roll, while samus has a faster forward roll. Its barely noticeable but Dark Samus has an easier time rolling back to punish an attack like melee samus with wave dash back.

Incorrect. Dark Samus has a faster roll both forwards and backwards by 3 frames. 3 frames is essentially nothing though and it likely won't make much difference in general gameplay. But Dark Samus' rolls are both faster, albeit marginally.

Samus:
Backroll FAF40 (Invulnerability 5-20)
Forward roll FAF35 (Invulnerability 4-18)
Spotdodge FAF27 (Invulnerability 3-17)

Dark Samus:
Backroll FAF37 (Invulnerability 5-20)
Forward roll FAF32 (Invulnerability 4-18)
Spotdodge FAF27 (Invulnerability 3-17)

(Thanks to KayJay for that research).

Dark samus’ projectiles all go lower to the ground. The big takeaway here is that Dark Samus is better against shorter characters, characters with extremely low ducks like shiek, characters with shorter short hops, and characters that use explosives.

While Dark Samus' missiles ARE slightly lower than Samus', it actually makes no difference in gameplay. Missiles from both characters will miss and hit the same crouching opponents.

The only case where this makes a difference is charge shot. Dark Samus' charge shot, even baby CS, will hit lower than Samus' charge shot. This means it's better at hitting opponents hanging on the ledge or 2-framing them. Pichu for example can crouch under Samus' uncharged CS but not Dark Samus' uncharged CS. This is the only projectile where it makes a difference.

Well aside from those differences everything about samus and Dark Samus plays the same,

You actually neglected to mention the arguably biggest difference between the two (well, you kind of mentioned it in passing when talking about the shield but didn't elaborate on it). That being that Dark Samus has larger hurtboxes due to her animations. This is most prominently seen on her roll, double jump, idle animation, and dash dance.

---

On the actual play guide, Samus is not a zoner nor a defensive character, and never has been. It's a common misconception because she has multiple projectiles, but she's really not. She operates in a kind of middle ground area, needing to alternate between distancing herself and going in with an optimal spacing. She'll straight up lose in a zoning competition with actual true zoners (Mega Man, Pacman, Villager, Duck Hunt Duo, Toon Link etc) and she'll also lose in a straight boxing match against true rushdown characters (Fox, Falco, most swordies, Sonic, etc). Optimally she needs to sit in a middle ground of playing neither overly defensive nor overly aggressive.

She's got plenty of offensive options that don't revolve around the use of her projectiles, evading or shield breaks. You barely mentioned her tilts, especially ftilt that can be angled up or down, and up tilt that is still a really strong tool that can no longer be ground teched in Ultimate, meaning a guaranteed popup. No mention of up air combos either which can combo into itself or into other aerials, all of which are strong options. Nair and Bair still remain fantastic horizontal kill moves, Dair remains a super powerful spike. Nothing about bomb combos and follow ups. Nothing about how great she is at edge guarding, including bomb usage to cover ledge getup options.

She also has plenty of defensive options that don't involve projectiles either. You only mentioned up b out of shield in passing on one occasion, nothing about charge cancelling into grabs or other moves, and I don't think you even mentioned zair as a combat tool even once, why? It's an essential part of her spacing game even though it's been altered since Smash 4.

I'll leave it there as I just wanted to cover some of the major points. If you want to, please pop into the Samuscord to discuss the character in more detail, we have a team that's been labbing the character extensively since release.

 

[Aeriesune0]

Unfortunately there's some incorrect information in the guide. It would have been a good idea to hop into the Samus discord to ask some questions before doing this.



Incorrect. Dark Samus has a faster roll both forwards and backwards by 3 frames. 3 frames is essentially nothing though and it likely won't make much difference in general gameplay. But Dark Samus' rolls are both faster, albeit marginally.

Samus:
Backroll FAF40 (Invulnerability 5-20)
Forward roll FAF35 (Invulnerability 4-18)
Spotdodge FAF27 (Invulnerability 3-17)

Dark Samus:
Backroll FAF37 (Invulnerability 5-20)
Forward roll FAF32 (Invulnerability 4-18)
Spotdodge FAF27 (Invulnerability 3-17)

(Thanks to KayJay for that research).



While Dark Samus' missiles ARE slightly lower than Samus', it actually makes no difference in gameplay. Missiles from both characters will miss and hit the same crouching opponents.

The only case where this makes a difference is charge shot. Dark Samus' charge shot, even baby CS, will hit lower than Samus' charge shot. This means it's better at hitting opponents hanging on the ledge or 2-framing them. Pichu for example can crouch under Samus' uncharged CS but not Dark Samus' uncharged CS. This is the only projectile where it makes a difference.



You actually neglected to mention the arguably biggest difference between the two (well, you kind of mentioned it in passing when talking about the shield but didn't elaborate on it). That being that Dark Samus has larger hurtboxes due to her animations. This is most prominently seen on her roll, double jump, idle animation, and dash dance.

---

On the actual play guide, Samus is not a zoner nor a defensive character, and never has been. It's a common misconception because she has multiple projectiles, but she's really not. She operates in a kind of middle ground area, needing to alternate between distancing herself and going in with an optimal spacing. She'll straight up lose in a zoning competition with actual true zoners (Mega Man, Pacman, Villager, Duck Hunt Duo, Toon Link etc) and she'll also lose in a straight boxing match against true rushdown characters (Fox, Falco, most swordies, Sonic, etc). Optimally she needs to sit in a middle ground of playing neither overly defensive nor overly aggressive.

She's got plenty of offensive options that don't revolve around the use of her projectiles, evading or shield breaks. You barely mentioned her tilts, especially ftilt that can be angled up or down, and up tilt that is still a really strong tool that can no longer be ground teched in Ultimate, meaning a guaranteed popup. No mention of up air combos either which can combo into itself or into other aerials, all of which are strong options. Nair and Bair still remain fantastic horizontal kill moves, Dair remains a super powerful spike. Nothing about bomb combos and follow ups. Nothing about how great she is at edge guarding, including bomb usage to cover ledge getup options.

She also has plenty of defensive options that don't involve projectiles either. You only mentioned up b out of shield in passing on one occasion, nothing about charge cancelling into grabs or other moves, and I don't think you even mentioned zair as a combat tool even once, why? It's an essential part of her spacing game even though it's been altered since Smash 4.

I'll leave it there as I just wanted to cover some of the major points. If you want to, please pop into the Samuscord to discuss the character in more detail, we have a team that's been labbing the character extensively since release.

Good info thanks dude

 

[Highscorezero]

Hey I keep getting messed up by my friend who plays same , I play Roy and fox, but can't seem to ever get in against him every time I try to approach i get caught up in something like missiles , charge shots Ariel's, etc , how do I get in ?

 

[Dr. Jay]

Hey I keep getting messed up by my friend who plays same , I play Roy and fox, but can't seem to ever get in against him every time I try to approach i get caught up in something like missiles , charge shots Ariel's, etc , how do I get in ?

Hey buddy, so I would recommend working on controlled dash dancing, spacing roys f-air, and practicing jumping over missiles into fast falling and dashing so that you can get in. Smart dash dancing/fox trotting/general movement will help make your approaches less predictable and bait a defensive tilt that you can punish. Remember that roy should be able to fair or even nair through missiles, and fox's jumping and falling is so fast that you can pretty easily get around missiles as long as you pay attention to whether it is a homing or power missile and have good timing. foxes sh-nair gets through a lot of things as well. Honestly though there is no great definitive answer to this question, as you need to mix up your approach game at least as much as samus mixes up her defense in order to properly get in. There is no one best way to approach her its like rock paper scissors. It's really a player/match specific thing, so (the worst but truest answer incoming) you really just need to practice the matchups and get more familiar with what works and doesn't work. I hate the git gud copout but its kinda applicable here lol. Cheers!

 

[ramos18s]

Hello Dr. Jay ! Thanks for the video, there are few videos of Samus in Youtube and yours is great ! I was wondering if you know the reason for the following issue I've been struggling with Samus.

In Smash 4 I used A LOT the Grapple Beam (Z Air) to attack the opponent because they never expect it. In Smash Ultimate I tried to use the same strategy but there are so many times where Samus uses Aerial Fire (F Air) instead of the Grapple Beam and I don't know why. This has cost me a lot of stocks, specifically when I'm coming back up from hanging on the edge. Do you know the reason?? What am I doing different or wrong?

 

[Dr. Jay]

Hello Dr. Jay ! Thanks for the video, there are few videos of Samus in Youtube and yours is great ! I was wondering if you know the reason for the following issue I've been struggling with Samus.

In Smash 4 I used A LOT the Grapple Beam (Z Air) to attack the opponent because they never expect it. In Smash Ultimate I tried to use the same strategy but there are so many times where Samus uses Aerial Fire (F Air) instead of the Grapple Beam and I don't know why. This has cost me a lot of stocks, specifically when I'm coming back up from hanging on the edge. Do you know the reason?? What am I doing different or wrong?

I believe you’re probably holding forward when you zair, it’s weird because I come from melee and used z for aerials on a lot of characters. Now I’ve faced the opposite problem because z airdodges on non tether-grappling characters sometimes and aerials other times depending on the timing. I haven’t run into your problem yet because I always let my control stick reset to a neutral position for a brief moment when I zair out of habit because it’s muscle memory from melee, so I imagine that would fix your problem. Haven’t gotten a chance to play the last two days but I’ll let you know if I’m wrong tomorrow night when i can test this. Otherwise, thanks for the positive vibes and peace!

 

[Highscorezero]

Hey buddy, so I would recommend working on controlled dash dancing, spacing roys f-air, and practicing jumping over missiles into fast falling and dashing so that you can get in. Smart dash dancing/fox trotting/general movement will help make your approaches less predictable and bait a defensive tilt that you can punish. Remember that roy should be able to fair or even nair through missiles, and fox's jumping and falling is so fast that you can pretty easily get around missiles as long as you pay attention to whether it is a homing or power missile and have good timing. foxes sh-nair gets through a lot of things as well. Honestly though there is no great definitive answer to this question, as you need to mix up your approach game at least as much as samus mixes up her defense in order to properly get in. There is no one best way to approach her its like rock paper scissors. It's really a player/match specific thing, so (the worst but truest answer incoming) you really just need to practice the matchups and get more familiar with what works and doesn't work. I hate the git gud copout but its kinda applicable here lol. Cheers!

Thanks so much for the reply I watched some of our my matches i totally agree i was just running in the same way every time. I need to mix up my approaches more

 

[ramos18s]

I believe you’re probably holding forward when you zair, it’s weird because I come from melee and used z for aerials on a lot of characters. Now I’ve faced the opposite problem because z airdodges on non tether-grappling characters sometimes and aerials other times depending on the timing. I haven’t run into your problem yet because I always let my control stick reset to a neutral position for a brief moment when I zair out of habit because it’s muscle memory from melee, so I imagine that would fix your problem. Haven’t gotten a chance to play the last two days but I’ll let you know if I’m wrong tomorrow night when i can test this. Otherwise, thanks for the positive vibes and peace!

Thanks for the reply ! I don't think the reason is holding forward or backwards, it's weird. I'll try to record a video and post the link to Youtube. I will also try to choose another character and see if it happens the same or if it is just with Samus. But it is really weird, I was in the Training Room just doing Grapple Beams and more or less 1/20 were Aerial Fires.

Cheers mate !

 

[Madcatz McGee]

Thank you for this content, definitely something I'm looking forward to delving deeper into