Sakurai: "...So I'm kind of hoping you aren't expecting too many new challengers"

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

My best guess is that the base roster won't go any higher than 75 fighters.

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

When it comes to newcomers, I would like to see another villain or two added in to the roster. We got Ridley which is absolutely amazing, but I would also like to see either Hades, Medusa, or K. Rool.
Of course, with how Legend of Zelda is being handled this time around, I think one more character would be great. One to represent Skyward Sword. With Ghirahim confirmed as Assist Trophy, the honor should go to Impa, as she's the most recurring Zelda character not in Smash. I wouldn't even care if she's an Echo Fighter of Sheik.

Honestly, I'd want some Hyrule Warriors Representation; Like Linkle(Especially since Her Dual-Wielding Crossbows would be a VERY unique gameplay Mechanic for Smash), Or Lana(and maybe Cia could even be HER Echo Fighter)

 

[Gallerian]

Honestly, I'd want some Hyrule Warriors Representation; Like Linkle(Especially since Her Dual-Wielding Crossbows would be a VERY unique gameplay Mechanic for Smash), Or Lana(and maybe Cia could even be HER Echo Fighter)

As cool as that would be to see some Hyrule Warriors, I doubt we will see representation from that game in Smash. Unfortunate, but probably the most likely conclusion. Of course, at this point, I'm not ruling out anything completely.

 

[Banjodorf]

I'm thinking Geno's gonna get it in. If there is few characters it's gonna go to characters that are big.

With Ridley in, Geno would definitely fit that role

I agree. Honestly, I think I'm expecting less Newcomers than everyone else, keeping my estimate at 5-7 including Ridley and Inkling, excluding Echoes.

But with only 3-5 base roster slots, and with the mentality of "giving people what they want" this time around, I think it bodes well for the big boys and girls

Geno
K. Rool
Simon Belmont
Bandana Dee or Rex&Pyra
Ashley

I've got no idea about DLC.

Have a few ideas for Echoes though, but I feel like that's a different thread.

 

[StormC]

Not likely; Since Waluigi's already an Assist Trophy(Again) and Sakurai has made it CLEAR several Times that he has NO Intentions of putting Waluigi in Smash as a Playable Character; He's a Lost Cause(The Only reason that he was even MADE was to be an Evil Counterpart to Luigi in Mario Tennis 64 or Wario's Tennis Partner)

Waluigi isn't getting in this game but you are literally repeating arguments for why Ridley would never be in Smash.

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

Waluigi isn't getting in this game but you are literally repeating arguments for why Ridley would never be in Smash.

that's Different; He got in, ONLY Because of Fan Outcry, and because Unlike Waluigi, He has significance to his Franchise of Origin, instead of being Relegated to Spin-Offs; Because He's the MAIN ANTAGONIST of the Entire Franchise!!

 

[ErenJager]

I'm going with what Sakurai said, he basically told me not to expect too many new challengers, so i'm not, i'll expect some though.

I think we'll get massively popular fan demands such as KKR and Geno... Which fits Ridley's inclusion.
I think we'll get a few characters that were featured on the Wii U... Not sure though, Inking fits that.
There will probably be a few third parties...
Then a few characters relevant to Nintendo... Idk maybe characters like Paper Mario, and a retro character.
DLC will probably be Switch character focused? Idk Springmans and Rex's.

So my guess is pre DLC consists of 4 categories...
1 - Popular Highly Demanded (Ridley, ???, ???)
2 - Wii U (Development Time Frame) (Inkling, ???, ???)
3 - Third Party (???, ???, ???)
4 - Nintendo's Interest (Daisy, ???, ???)

Hmm, Idk, I don't really see more then 3 characters per category. So maybe 12 total which would give a little more then half the newcomers Smash 4 got.
If you look at previously cut vets as being sorta similar to being newcomers... and you add that to the total number of new characters to this installment from the previous... Wolf, Young Link, Ivysaur, Squirtle, Pichu, Ice Climbers, and Snake that's 19 characters. Which is close to what we got in Smash 4.

Going back to the categories....

Three new third parties could potentially square out the third party representation with 2 characters each.

In short I don't expect more then 12 characters, not sure how Echo characters will factor in entirely just yet.
Which would mean an average of 2 newcomers announced a month if they do a dojo thingy.
Which sounds a little too much, maybe they'll try and keep some secret.

 

[Organization XIII]

Rex (Shulk Echo) (I know it would make people upset, but it's definitely possible)

It wouldn't just be upsetting it would be down right baffling. They don't fight similarly at all. I don't even think there was a single art they both used.

 

[Robertman2]

I feel like Sakurai is lying.

Again. Didn't he say the same thing with Brawl and 4?

 

[Pacack]

It wouldn't just be upsetting it would be down right baffling. They don't fight similarly at all. I don't even thing l think there was a single art they both used.

Fair. It would likely have to be a semi-clone situation if anything. Still, the similarities between the Monado and the Aegis is enough to draw parallels between how Shulk fights and how Rex could.

 

[Organization XIII]

Fair. It would likely have to be a semi-clone situation if anything. Still, the similarities between the Monado and the Aegis is enough to draw parallels between how Shulk fights and how Rex could.

I mean saying because of their weapon they should fight the similarly is like saying Ike and Cloud should fight the same even though the way they fight is totally different. But ignoring that debate of Rex being a clone of he was a semi clone then he wouldn't be an echo. Echoes are basically skins.

 

[Lord-Zero]

5 or less for the vanilla roster and probably 5 more as DLC. That would round the roster around 75. Maybe 5 more just to get to 80. He’ll probably reach that amount with more Echo Fighters.

Anyway, I would just want Lana, Ashley and Decidueye. Maybe Eliwood or Chrom as Echo Fighters.

 

[jamesster445]

We're currently at 66. I expect maybe 70. And maybe more as DLC.

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

It wouldn't just be upsetting it would be down right baffling. They don't fight similarly at all. I don't even think there was a single art they both used.

Yeah, I Agree; The Only Xenoblade Echo Fighter would be Malus from the Sequel(He ALSO Uses Monado arts in Xenoblade Chronicles 2, the ONLY Character in the entire game to do so); and Rex & Pyra would be their Own Characters, they'd work as a Team; Just like the Ice Climbers & Rosalina and Luma & The Duck Hunt duo.

When it comes to newcomers, I would like to see another villain or two added in to the roster. We got Ridley which is absolutely amazing, but I would also like to see either Hades, Medusa, or K. Rool.
Of course, with how Legend of Zelda is being handled this time around, I think one more character would be great. One to represent Skyward Sword. With Ghirahim confirmed as Assist Trophy, the honor should go to Impa, as she's the most recurring Zelda character not in Smash. I wouldn't even care if she's an Echo Fighter of Sheik.

How about Malus from Xenoblade Chronicles 2; Like Shulk, he ALSO Uses Monado Arts!!

 

[StrangeMann]

We're currently at 66. I expect maybe 70. And maybe more as DLC.

I feel like if we see 70, they'll have 71 just to round out the roster with the CSS.

Spoiler: Lots of Images

lets begin with the css we have now

It's pretty safe to assume that that the black space becomes mostly filled with the passage of time.
Right now it's at an aspect ratio of 4 by 8 with the bottom row missing one spot. Of the 66 known characters, only 30 are present here.
We can't just double the css by every dimension otherwise we'd end up with an 8 by 16, which is super unmanageable.
Lets just assume for a second that instead each dimension is multiplied by 1.5 to get a 6 by 12 roster.
a 6 by 12 roster implies that there are 72 slots for the taking total, and we know who possess 67 of those slots, leaving 5 remaining spaces up for grabs including more echoes. This is about on par with what Sakurai said about not expecting too many newcomers. This assumes Lucina/Dark Pit/Daisy take up their own spaces on the roster. If not, then there are roughly 8 spaces left.
There's more evidence however that suggests that the roster is likely to be 6 by 12 on launch: Each character icon (in a solo battle) should allow for space for 2 character selection buttons (the P1 and P2 buttons) in width. Right now, each character selection portrait is roughly 3 buttons wide and 2 buttons tall. If each portrait is scaled to be 2/3 as wide (to allow for 3/2 the characters), we would have enough space for there to be 2 buttons side to side to each other in each portrait. Let me make an example:
View attachment 148217
Hi res image top left of the hand and the enlarged player button hovering over the Ridley portrait, with the upper right being before the button is on the image and the bottom right being the button placed on the image. The button in hand is slightly larger than the placed button, but 3 enlarged buttons is roughly the width of the current 4 by 8 portrait. If we scale down the 4 by 8 portrait to a screen designed for a 6 by 12 portrait (bottom left), we can see that 2 enlarged buttons would be the width of the portrait, if we assume that the buttons and hands would remain the same scale.
The Wii U version of the game decreases the button size for 8 player smash, which would be the most likely option for this game as well. You can fit 4 of the buttons on the same 66% character portrait, but they have to be in a zig-zag pattern.

This is all subject to change and could be wrong, but I think this is going to be the roster number we are going to see as of right now.

 

[Reila]

Most relevant characters are already in Smash. We don't really need many new challengers and there are just so many characters they can add to the game before any traces of balance are completely gone. Considering the new mechanics and tweaks, it is clear they didn't give up on the competitive site.

Don't expect much. Don't try to read between the lines of what he said. If there were many new challengers to come, it would be wiser to tell people to make them hype as much as possible. He wouldn't have said that if he didn't mean it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Please do not double post. Edits your messages instead.

 

[SSBCandidates]

He could be trolling. But he also works hard, I am OK with the roster so far. Still makes me wonder on the future.

 

[PsychoJosh]

He could just be joking, that possibility always exists. He's saying it like a parent treating his kids to ice cream, "haven't you had enough?!" but he knows we haven't. We could be at 100 characters and still have more requests.

As far as I know he'll just keep trying to appease us the best he can.

So, since my number one pick Wario Land Wario is probably out of the running due to Wario's shoulder barge attack being confirmed as his dash attack, these are the remaining characters I'd like to see apart from him. I'd love it if I got anyone on this list but they're pretty much all underdogs.

1. Earthworm Jim
2. Lip (Panel de Pon)
3. Dr. Eggman
4. Mona (WarioWare)
5. Ganbare Goemon
6. F-Type (Stunt Race FX)
7. Master Chief (Halo)
8. Funky Kong

 

[andimidna]

I kinda had a feeling we wouldn’t be getting many newcomers before release just because we’ve seen how easily that can be done later. What was necessary was the solid base game to build on, and that looks like what we got

I'm expecting half of the amount Smash 4 had at launch so about 6 or 7.

Inklings
Ridley
Simon Belmont
K.Rool
Decidueye
Ashley
Rayman

Rex & Pyra, Springman, Geno, Fire Emblem 8 lord, a Kirby character and a third party character are my guesses for DLC.

I just have to point out how this is almost exactly what my list is. Just replace Ashley with a retro and I’m like 100% on board with this. I’d like Ashley though

 

[DarkFalcon]

I think Sakurai really means it. Smash 4 had a lot of newcomers. I feel 10 unique newcomers maximum, and even then I might be being too generous. Could be even less than that. They definitely have enough to leave us satisfied until release. I feel like they'll package in Echo fighters in trailers to to make it feel like we're getting more.

 

[Pacack]

Question: Are we still expecting a retro () and/or historical () newcomer? If we don't get one, it'll be breaking tradition that we've had since Melee.

 

[Organization XIII]

It's more retro and hardware and I don't think we will see either this iteration

 

[Sailor Waddle Dee]

Thinking it over, my optimistic theory is that we'll get 10 newcomer characters total in the base game (including Inkling, Daisy and Ridley)

That way, every month until release they can reveal 1 new character. and then have 1 last character up their sleeve to "reveal" post-launch.

These characters will be a mix of echos and completely new. with a focus on being "what (the majority of) the fans want" (since you can't please everyone)

So we may end up with something like

First tease: Inkling
June/E3/Big Reveal: Ridley, Daisy (Peach Echo)
July: Captain Toad (to coincide with his game release)
August: Impa (shiek echo)
Supetember: Geno
October: Octoling (Inkling Echo) (not highly requested, but easy to implement and fitting for OCTOber)
November: Bandana Dee
December: Banjo & Kazooie
Post-Launch: King K. Rool

There might be 12 newcomers in the base roster too so that there is more than 1 secret post release character (Qbby? Chibi-Robo? Springman?)

and then maybe sometime in like Q2 2019 we'll get the first teases of DLC characters. and maybe the reveal of who the first/ first wave of DLC characters will be.

I'm going to assume that even with DLC we won't have the newcomer count get super huge. but we may end up with about 12-17 newcomers total by the time DLC is over

 

[DjinnandTonic]

Considering all the dev time that went into updating all the returning vets, I do believe that a low number of newcomers is most likely. But certainly more than the 2 (3 with Daisy) we have now.

I really wonder if we're getting Smash Run or a proper Adventure mode, though. Those would be more hype than 10 more newcomers. (Still want at least 5 more newcomers total though...)

Likely candidates:

Bandana Dee
Simon Belmont
Decidueye/some Pokemon
Impa
K.Rool/Dixie/some DK character
Rex+Pyra/some XBC character
Springman/Ribbongirl/some ARMS character
Edelgard/Celica/some FE character
and for my own hopes, something like Ashley, Isaac, Geno, or some other Assist Trophy.
Huh. The only new franchises on this list are ARMS, Castlevania, and Golden Sun.

 

[Arcadenik]

There aren’t many Nintendo All-Stars I really want left.

Pre-Melee I wanted
+ Peach
+ Bowser
- Toad
+- Wario
+ Diddy Kong
- Dixie Kong
- King K. Rool
+ Zelda
+ Ganondorf
+- Bulbasaur
+- Charmander
+ Squirtle
- Meowth
+ Mewtwo
+ King Dedede
+ Meta Knight
+ Pit
+ Little Mac

Pre-Brawl I wanted
+ “Wind Waker Link”
+ “Justin Bailey Samus”
+ “Animal Crossing Human” or Tom Nook
+ Olimar
+ Mii
+ Duck Hunt Dog

So yeah, I wish the newcomers are those four characters: Toad, Dixie Kong, King K. Rool, and Meowth.

 

[200X!!]

My predictions:
Someone from ARMS
Dixie Kong
Isaac
A Gen 7 Pokemon (Decidueye, Mimikyu?)
Tetra

Pipe Dreams:
Phoenix Wright
Black Mage, Bartz, Terra, Crono
Shantae
Banjo-Kazooie
Simon Belmont

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I kind of feel like maybe Smash would be a good time for them to reveal to the world a gen 8 pokemon

Gen 7 is history at this point

 

[StormC]

I think Sakurai really means it. Smash 4 had a lot of newcomers. I feel 10 unique newcomers maximum, and even then I might be being too generous. Could be even less than that. They definitely have enough to leave us satisfied until release. I feel like they'll package in Echo fighters in trailers to to make it feel like we're getting more.

10 would be a ****ton, any more than 7 (including Inkling and Ridley) would be amazing IMO.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Honestly, that man continually surprises me so I don't know what to expect.

Still, with this new numbering system, 70 just has such a great ring to it - 5 more unique newcomers and then some extra echoes. I'd be 100% okay with that. With so many returning stages as well (we're up around 85! now) this will truly be the ultimate Smash experience.

I can see K.Rool getting in, and I feel that would be announced pre-release. Are there any DK releases forthcoming? I still think that there will be a few surprises hidden to be leaked by the ESRB again though.

Impa (Shiek) and Tails (Sonic) would make for great echoes - considering they got the special name, I'd expect a few more of them coming by as well. I could even see Urbosa as a Link echo if they wanted to put in champions.

My #1 realizable newcomer is K.Rool, and after that I'd be up for anything else, even Goku. This roster is amazing. The one character who could hype me more than I already am would be Dovahkiin

 

[kool2419]

With all the returning veterans in Ultimate i do expect to have fewer newcomers this time around. Plus i was very shocked that both Ridley and Daisy finally made it in, and do to the fact that we already have 68 fighters i have a feeling we will have either 6 or 7 more newcomers that will be added.
I still have hope for these characters
1. Dixie Kong
2. Ayumi Tachibana
3. Springman/Ribbon Girl
4. Mona
5. Celica
6. Medusa

 

[Koopaul]

We need some new DK content. Just give me a new character and stage based on Tropical Freeze and I'll be fine.

Sure there's tons of newcomers I'd want, and I'd prefer more newcomers over bringing back every old character. But I've accepted this and now have new DK stuff as top priority. If DK gets the shaft again I will be highly disappointed.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Honestly, I'd want some Hyrule Warriors Representation; Like Linkle(Especially since Her Dual-Wielding Crossbows would be a VERY unique gameplay Mechanic for Smash), Or Lana(and maybe Cia could even be HER Echo Fighter)

How about Impa? :D

Question: Are we still expecting a retro () and/or historical () newcomer? If we don't get one, it'll be breaking tradition that we've had since Melee.

Well, Takamaru isn't one that's for certain. So maybe a Echo Fighter of Captain Falcon in the form of Excite Biker? Balloon Fighter maybe as a tribute to Iwata?

 

[Pacack]

How about Impa? :D

Well, Takamaru isn't one that's for certain. So maybe a Echo Fighter of Captain Falcon in the form of Excite Biker? Balloon Fighter maybe as a tribute to Iwata?

I don't think Excite Biker makes sense as an echo. He needs his bike to be himself. Balloon Fighter I think is effectively deconfirmed because of Villager having Balloon Trip as his up special.

Did Prince Sable get shown off as an assist? If not, he's possible.

Honestly, I could see Sakurai treating the Ice Climbers' return as our retro for this title, which is a little disappointing. Maybe he'll still consider Daitoryo or Diskun as an oddball history character, though?

 

[Organization XIII]

Balloon Fighter I think is effectively deconfirmed because of Villager having Balloon Trip as his up special.

Yeah because we all know characters can't have similar specials and that one move is the same thing as an entire moveset. I'm sorry but Villager using that really doesn't affect Balloon Fighter. Though what does is the increased likelihood of not getting a retro.

 

[Pacack]

Yeah because we all know characters can't have similar specials and that one move is the same thing as an entire moveset. I'm sorry but Villager using that really doesn't affect Balloon Fighter. Though what does is the increased likelihood of not getting a retro.

Villager has the exact mechanics of Balloon Fighter for his up special. It's not a matter of "similar" specials, it's a move that mimics the entirety of what the character does in his games.

And how would it decrease the likelihood of a retro if it doesn't discomfirm him??

 

[Organization XIII]

Villager has the exact mechanics of Balloon Fighter for his up special. It's not a matter of "similar" specials, it's a move that mimics the entirety of what the character does in his games.

And how would it decrease the likelihood of a retro if it doesn't discomfirm him??

Well mate the thing is if that one special is literally all the character could do then I suppose he would never get in the game anyways but not because of Villager but a lack of moveset potential. I'm sorry one move can't deconfirm a character. And for the other thing well if there is a good chance of not getting a retro then a retro's chance decreases.

 

[Pacack]

Well mate the thing is if that one special is literally all the character could do then I suppose he would never get in the game anyways but not because of Villager but a lack of moveset potential. I'm sorry one move can't deconfirm a character. And for the other thing well if there is a good chance of not getting a retro then a retro's chance decreases.

I never said everything he could do. (As in, has the potential to do.) I said everything he does in his home game. There's a significant difference.

Let me put it this way; if Yoshi's flutter jump was used as Mario's recovery move, then would Yoshi not be disconfirmed? Sure, it's a single Yoshi as opposed to the Yoshi, but why have it in Mario's moveset if Yoshi was a character?

 

[Organization XIII]

I never said everything he could do. (As in, has the potential to do.) I said everything he does in his home game. There's a significant difference.

Let me put it this way; if Yoshi's flutter jump was used as Mario's recovery move, then would Yoshi not be disconfirmed? Sure, it's a single Yoshi as opposed to the Yoshi, but why have it in Mario's moveset if Yoshi was a character?

No, it doesn't actually disconfirm Yoshi because they could both still flutter jump and Yoshi would still have all his other moves to differentiate himself from Mario. It would be weird but yes it could happen. And in balloon fighter's case it even less damaging than your hypothetical because Villager just has some balloons strapped to helmet something multiple fighters could have and it not look weird.

 

[Pacack]

No, it doesn't actually disconfirm Yoshi because they could both still flutter jump and Yoshi would still have all his other moves to differentiate himself from Mario. It would be weird but yes it could happen. And in balloon fighter's case it even less damaging than your hypothetical because Villager just has some balloons strapped to helmet something multiple fighters could have and it not look weird.

If you don't think my hypothetical works, then I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I think we fundamentally don't agree on what counts as disconfirmation.