Because our sole purpose in life is to be difficult and ornery and we want to make you miserable.
Also, this:
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Sakurai does not want Smash to be a competitive franchise
- Thread starter Gimpyfish62
- Start date
Also, this:
1048576
Smash Master
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2006
- Messages
- 3,417
Well, most of us wanted a game we could enjoy. Given the years of development work, I think I can speak for more than just myself when I say that we're disappointed.
It's like if your mom fed you zucchini for breakfast. You don't like zucchini? Don't eat it, and everyone's happy right? No, because you had come to desire an enjoyable breakfast.
It's like if your mom fed you zucchini for breakfast. You don't like zucchini? Don't eat it, and everyone's happy right? No, because you had come to desire an enjoyable breakfast.
Negi-Kun
Smash Lord
I agree. I don't even need to read the first post.
I'll say this now. Melee > 64 = Brawl. IMO. THIS IS MY OPINION. Don't turn this into Melee vs Brawl just because I said that. PLEASE.
I'll say this now. Melee > 64 = Brawl. IMO. THIS IS MY OPINION. Don't turn this into Melee vs Brawl just because I said that. PLEASE.
Scar
#HarveyDent
I guess this is valid, it just makes me so angry that a lot of people immediately left the Melee community just because something new came out with the completely ridiculous argument that the game would amount to a competitive fighter equal to Melee. This was blind hope and it made me so mad.
I knew that eventually the Melee scene would get big again, but every tournament a venue agrees to hold, we as Melee vets and new players have this added pressure of something to prove: that Melee is not dead. It certainly has lots of aspects that Brawl never had and never will have, and has much more to bring to the table IMO... but it's very very difficult to make people outside of the community (such as venue owners) to understand that.
SlickSlicer
Smash Apprentice
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
I don't know if that was directed at me harshly, but that was awesome Slick.
Smooth Criminal
Smooth Criminal
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
sometimes i really wonder if LOL_Master plans this stuff or if lulz just happen.
unwelc0med
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2008
- Messages
- 419
i don't even know if i want a smash 4 the way these games are being made 
Superstar
Smash Champion
Might as well post after such a long time.
I agree completely except in the order of games. Brawl, 64, than Melee.
At least 64 has hitstun. Yeah.
I agree completely except in the order of games. Brawl, 64, than Melee.
At least 64 has hitstun. Yeah.
SlickSlicer
Smash Apprentice
Nah, I just posted it because it came to my mind when I saw your post. No hard feelings bro.
M-WUZ-H3R3
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2008
- Messages
- 1,793
if he wanted everyone to be "happy" then no wonder why we dont feel "happy" when we beat some one at a game that takes half the skill as melee??!! i hope ssb4 takes skill to play. lets hope that sakuri dosent come back to direct that game.
LOL_Master
Smash Lord
I DO want 'Smash' to be a competitive franchise.
LOL_Master
Smash Lord
I DO want 'Melee' to be a competitive franchise.
No, it's not. I'm too tired to delve into all of the reasons why it's perfectly reasonable to hate him, but...yeah.
Even without that, I'm sick to death of people telling me who I can attack, get angry at, insult. It's MY life, I don't give a **** if you like him.
Ironic that your post was just as much spam as ours.
By the way, I hardly think 2 posts qualifies "spamming" the thread with "off-topic" conversation. We were discussing a response in the thread.
And this is yet ANOTHER pet peeve of mine. Actually, it's the same thing, just instead of a person, it's a game. I CAN INSULT THE GAME/DISLIKE IT IF I WANT. GET OVER IT.
And I don't have to only think it either. If anyone has a gripe with Melee, no one says "You're not allowed to complain about Melee", but everyone's always saying you're not allowed to make complain about Brawl. I'm sick to death of it. I don't care if you like it, I don't, and I'm going to be vocal about it.
Go away.
LOL_Master
Smash Lord
when you get tired of the taste of balls, tell me
>_>
That's why I said it. If you guys are tired of someone's spam, you report them. you don't flame them, respond to them, open a conversation with them, and then threaten to report them. Just do it and get it over with. You don't even have to post about it. No one is going to pat you on the back and say, "You're my hero. Way to report that guy." JUST DO IT.
Otherwise, you are spamming the thread.
Back on topic...
...I think Sakurai was weak against peer pressure.
thumbswayup
Smash Master
I'm actually glad that Brawl sucks so much, because if it was any good I'd have stopped playing Melee.
CR4SH
Smash Lord
Smash brothers is a party game franchise. Anyone who didn't know that before, or doesn't know that now is missing so much I can't really understand it. Why isn't this obvious to everyone?
Nobody has any doubt that mario party is a party game, nobody doubts that warioware is. I mean, you could play wii sports competitively, and have a great time, but nobody mistakes it for a hardcore 1on1 game.
Melee was deep and competitve because of bugs in the system (if you dont like the word bug, say exploit, one way or another, it's not how the game was built). And that's ok, but why in the world would you expect brawl to be the same way?
I just don't get it.
Nobody has any doubt that mario party is a party game, nobody doubts that warioware is. I mean, you could play wii sports competitively, and have a great time, but nobody mistakes it for a hardcore 1on1 game.
Melee was deep and competitve because of bugs in the system (if you dont like the word bug, say exploit, one way or another, it's not how the game was built). And that's ok, but why in the world would you expect brawl to be the same way?
I just don't get it.
thumbswayup
Smash Master
It's not that we expected Brawl to be the same way, quite the opposite in fact. We all wanted a new, challenging competitive fighter. Instead we got a dumbed down version of Melee. No one cares that L-cancel and wavedash aren't in it, we care about the awful things that were done to the game to purposefully make it non-competitive. Tripping, broken defense, floaty recoveries for everyone so that if the knockback from the attack doesn't kill them they will ALWAYS make it back to the stage.
It's fine for Brawl to be different, but so unbelievbly skill-less? So horribly unbalanced that MK dominates every character (except Snake somewhat) to the point where it's almost like Sheik vs Bowser in Melee? Let's not forget how broken spot dodging is. I also truly despise how the person running away and camping the entire match has an advantage over the attacker. How pathetic.
Okay... here are my opinions on this matter...
Brawl is competitive, no matter what way you look at it. There's plenty of gamers who pay more attention to Brawl, rather than Melee. The reason why, is because it's the "new thing". And it's slower, and more easier for n00bs. But man, Brawl is still pretty hard. See, most people played SSB, and SSBM, and have already mastered the basic/advanced technique of the series. So learning to play Brawl was no problem. We jumped right in, and proceded to smash our way to victory. But see.... I noticed this with Nintendo, in general. They aren't making their games appeal to the "hardcore" gamers, such as myself, rather, they are making their games "easier" and more appealing to "casual" gamers, so that it's not "too hard". I mean, us hardcore gamers have stuck by them since the start. I don't know why they are not making any competitive games anymore. (The last being Twlight Princess and Brawl, I guess) but see, the point I'm trying to make is, Smash Bros veterans, are turning to Melee, rather than Brawl, because of all the advanced techniques and fast-action gameplay that they took out in Brawl. Sure, they still play it, but to them, it's easier, and less appealing... personally, I love both, and I am very good at both. But there's always going to be arguments and debates about these two games conflicting with each other...
But yeah, wish they had made it so that the gameplay was basically the same. =P
Brawl is competitive, no matter what way you look at it. There's plenty of gamers who pay more attention to Brawl, rather than Melee. The reason why, is because it's the "new thing". And it's slower, and more easier for n00bs. But man, Brawl is still pretty hard. See, most people played SSB, and SSBM, and have already mastered the basic/advanced technique of the series. So learning to play Brawl was no problem. We jumped right in, and proceded to smash our way to victory. But see.... I noticed this with Nintendo, in general. They aren't making their games appeal to the "hardcore" gamers, such as myself, rather, they are making their games "easier" and more appealing to "casual" gamers, so that it's not "too hard". I mean, us hardcore gamers have stuck by them since the start. I don't know why they are not making any competitive games anymore. (The last being Twlight Princess and Brawl, I guess) but see, the point I'm trying to make is, Smash Bros veterans, are turning to Melee, rather than Brawl, because of all the advanced techniques and fast-action gameplay that they took out in Brawl. Sure, they still play it, but to them, it's easier, and less appealing... personally, I love both, and I am very good at both. But there's always going to be arguments and debates about these two games conflicting with each other...
But yeah, wish they had made it so that the gameplay was basically the same. =P
CR4SH
Smash Lord
Everyone from melee seems to confuse "skill" with "technical proficiency". There is plenty of skill in brawl, it just requires a completely different skillset than most fighters, including melee.
Practicing button combinations until you can do them in your sleep isn't skill, its proficiency. Not to say it doesn't have merit, not to say there isn't skill involved in learning it. That's just to say, they aren't the same thing.
The skills required in this game are pretty basic, yes. But that doesn't mean there isn't a clear definition between those who have skill and those who don't. If you can read a situation, think on your feet, and react appropriately, you'll do well in brawl.
I mean, I understand that you don't like the fact that the things you think ought to be skill-based aren't. But, it just means the skill requirements shift to other places.
That's sun tzu for you. In any conflict between equally matched opponents, defense has the advantage. Most games simply artificially change that balance. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, or a good thing. It simply makes a different kind of game.
thumbswayup
Smash Master
Melee skill was never based on your technical skill. Learning and practicing the button combinations until you could do them in your sleep was the stepping stone. It was all about how you could utilize said proficiency in matches; mindgames, mixing up moves, new combos etc. If Melee were all about tech skill Silent Wolf would be the best player in the world. But he's not, there are many pros that are significantly better than him and are much less technically proficient (Mew2king, Azen, Chudat, KoreanDJ, etc).
I understand what you're saying, and although I hate to admit it, Brawl does take skill. It's just so much less than Melee that it's mind boggling. We aren't used to it being this easy or slow. At the end of the day, we all know that Melee requires more skill than Brawl and that's what upsets us.
Radically different from Melee. Shockingly broken defense. I wouldn't mind if the defender had a slight advantage, but for it to be this huge? It's very ridiculous.
CR4SH
Smash Lord
OK, let me say, I can't really find anything I disagree with you about specifically. But I feel the need to keep discussing this.
The defensive issue really doesn't have any argument in it. It will always boil down to a simple difference of opinion. I'm of the opinion that it just puts a lot of emphasis on recognizing and capitalizing on opportunities.
What I think I'm still either not understanding, or just looking at differently than you are, is what exactly you mean when you say it takes more skill. I certainly agree that brawl takes far fewer skills, but I don't see how that really equates to less skill. The way I look at it, reading your opponent is paramount, which I don't think is something that can be practiced, and relies entirely on skill. There's no doubt that this is a very simple game, with not many built-in variables. Well I'm not sure how exactly to phrase the question I want to ask you, but I would love it if you would elaborate a bit on what you think make melee so much more skill intensive.
The defensive issue really doesn't have any argument in it. It will always boil down to a simple difference of opinion. I'm of the opinion that it just puts a lot of emphasis on recognizing and capitalizing on opportunities.
What I think I'm still either not understanding, or just looking at differently than you are, is what exactly you mean when you say it takes more skill. I certainly agree that brawl takes far fewer skills, but I don't see how that really equates to less skill. The way I look at it, reading your opponent is paramount, which I don't think is something that can be practiced, and relies entirely on skill. There's no doubt that this is a very simple game, with not many built-in variables. Well I'm not sure how exactly to phrase the question I want to ask you, but I would love it if you would elaborate a bit on what you think make melee so much more skill intensive.
Lord Viper
SS Rank
OMG, this thread deserves to be destroid right now. >
We all know right now that he didn't want Smash to be competitive, but just that fact that this thread has revived is just sickening. =/
We all know right now that he didn't want Smash to be competitive, but just that fact that this thread has revived is just sickening. =/
MarKO X
Smash Champion
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- 2,542
- Location
- Brooklyn
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- legendnumberM
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- Switch FC
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Theory: The ground defense is built for dealing with items. The air defense is designed to stop wavedashing. The non-competitive defense is what made the defense broken.
Iron Thorn
Smash Lord
Excellent post. It seems that with the Wii (which they said was a misspelling of "We") they're trying to branch out into other markets than nerds in the age range of 13-30. Girls (and not the kind I am, the kind that wear makeup and go shopping and watch Gray's anatomy), older people, little kids - all new targets. However, it could reasonably be argued that this is happening at the expense of "hardcore" gamers.
And dammit, there's a double standard on this forum and you know it. People can say whatever the hell they want about Brawl and not have to provide a word of why they think it's the WORST GAME EVER, but if someone prefers Brawl and writes well-organized, thought-out paragraphs on why they prefer it, people will come in and be like "lol noob" or possibly call them delusional.
Don't pretend it doesn't happen. I know you're full aware of it, and you probably enjoy this discrepancy.
Fletch
Smash Master
Probably because it is impossible to write "thought-out paragraphs" defending Brawl unless you are a noob.
Iron Thorn
Smash Lord
So you're saying an intelligent person has no place defending Brawl and all intelligent people should play Melee?
Or are you saying that only a n00b would believe that Brawl is a better competitive game? (frankly, I'll concede that Melee is definitely better in that respect.)
Or are you saying that only a n00b would believe that Brawl is a better competitive game? (frankly, I'll concede that Melee is definitely better in that respect.)
Black Mantis
Smash Hero
Nintendo does want to try new things and I can respect that. However they should try to appease the hardcore audience more. Right now its
70% casual
30% hardcore
As for the whole Brawl vs. Melee debate who cares. If you like Melee more then just stfu and play Melee and the same goes for Brawl.
Iron Thorn
Smash Lord
Ayaz18
Smash Champion
the only reason why I think Brawl is less technical (i say technical because any game can be competitive, it's whether the players choose to take it to that level) is because of Online. In 64 and melee where there was no online, so I think that Sakurai intended to put in the Z/L - cancel (for example of AT's) as a little "secret" for players who WANT to go deeper into the game, which they can find and use among FRIENDS, not random people online. You see if L-cancel, wavedashing, ect. were in brawl imagine online, casuals would play SSE love the game, play the extras love the game more, play with some friends from time to time, and appreciate the game even more then go online to test their skills only to lose 95% of the rounds because of some (insert broken melee character here). This in turn I think would put off a lot of the casuals, thus leading to a loss of sales. Nintendo does not rely apon the hardcore anymore, and is more into pleasing the casual gammer, because let's face it, there are a hell of a lot more casuals than harcore.
Nintendo cares about sales, they'll make a couple hardcore games just to keep us happy but are more focused toward the casual scene
Nintendo cares about sales, they'll make a couple hardcore games just to keep us happy but are more focused toward the casual scene
Fletch
Smash Master
The latter.
Black Mantis
Smash Hero
Check this out to everyone who says that Brawl has no combos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combo_(video_games)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combo_(video_games)
Fletch
Smash Master
Link fixed.
First of all, that link doesn't even have an article. Second of all, I assure you nobody claims Brawl has no combos. But Brawl does have very few combos, and a lot of what could be considered "combos" can be stopped easily by DI or simple prediction.
Black Mantis
Smash Hero
LOL_Master
Smash Lord
then someone close it, obviously mod doesn't give a flying nutsack about this, so they just keep letting it live, kill this thread then, oh and also, mods, suck my balls, hahaha you know im just playing
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
Wut?Do you guys realize this thread was made 6 months ago? People, let's drop the argument please.
>___>
Melee. The end.
Close topic?
Smooth Criminal
BEES
Smash Lord
Brawl has combos. I can occasionally pull off some colossal Uair combos with Captain Falcon, the worst character in the game.
The principle problem with the game is there's no way to approach, so you never get a chance to initiate a combo unless your opponent makes more than one serious huge error in a row.
The principle problem with the game is there's no way to approach, so you never get a chance to initiate a combo unless your opponent makes more than one serious huge error in a row.