Safest thing on shield?

[Benjaguin]

Is there another option besides a spaced stomp landing behind them?

 

[Myst0]

the most common you will see is spacing your nair so your toes barely get them.

and also recently mang0 has been using knee to create some interesting shield pressure when they are near ledge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EraDU-6_Lbw
@13:50

but you should probably stick with nair and sometimes stomp.

hope this helps

 

[protato]

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[LegendarySquid]

Dair and Nair are great options because if spaced properly you can't get shield grabbed.

 

[Gilbz]

At the beginning of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPDJUpzul-U&index=152&list=WL

Wizzy talks about how to short hop knee pressure on a shield.

 

[Sugahighsnipa]

Protato briefly mentioned uair, but that's one that I've been trying to develop a lot. Well spaced late uairs on shield are hella sexy

 

[Im Fragbait]

just for clarification why is nair and dair better than bair. I understand nair has range to it, and dair allow you to get them stuck in shield, however bair seems to have a ton of range, lower risk if you miss the lcancel, and a long lasting hit box. I also understand you can land on the other side of them with dair, but after a bair hit your arm retracts and your out of grab range if you space it correctly right?

 

[Gilbz]

just for clarification why is nair and dair better than bair. I understand nair has range to it, and dair allow you to get them stuck in shield, however bair seems to have a ton of range, lower risk if you miss the lcancel, and a long lasting hit box. I also understand you can land on the other side of them with dair, but after a bair hit your arm retracts and your out of grab range if you space it correctly right?

I was under the impression that the hitbox for bair actually isn't very long and that they would be able to shield grab you out of it, but I dunno I guess.

 

[protato]

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[Gilbz]

bair IS better than nair and dair on shield [according to frame data, bair is -1, nair is -2, dair is -3]
nair has better spacing than dair and bair
dair is just all around turn on shield

Spoiler

unless you have a deceptive drift to mindgame them into a shield grab

If you look at the wizzrobe video I linked above. A low knee is also safe on shield because you have a single frame advantage where you can grab them before they shield grab or stomp them.

 

[strongboy]

grab lmao ..

 

[protato]

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[Gilbz]

i dont understand why you told me this [especially when i already posted that knee is +1 on shield earlier in this thread]
i just told somone that bair is better than nair and dair on shield

Yeah I didn't read your earlier posts. My bad.

 

[ZimZam]

as far as safe on shield, late knee is definitely best, like earlier stated. If you do a perfect late knee on shield and then grab (not jump cancelled, mind you) your grab would come out before their shield grab. Generally speaking, this isn't good because a lot of better players don't punish with shield grabs but option OoS like a shine OoS as Fox or falco. So by using the +1 frame advantage a late knee gives you, it's better to mix up jab timings/gentleman's, or to do a fade back aerial or even a dash back/dash back into a pivot aerial

 

[ZimZam]

also, technically speaking a late upair is +/- 0 on shield, so if you and your opponent input a grab on the same frame the player with the higher port priority will grab first. Same bair is also +/- 0 on shield but obviously you can't use a grab because you'd usually be facing the opposite direction

 

[Drodeka]

Pretty sure all of Falcon's aerials are completely safe against shield grab, no matter the spacing, if you drop them really low. Except first hit of nair obv.
I tested it out using TAS a while back when I was learning how to be safe on shield against all the top tiers. Like seriously, you can do ANY aerial and drop it low enough to jab before they grab. With knee and U-air, usually you can hit shield and then DD their grab.
Shine OoS will beat your ass if you use the wrong aerials. Knee still works since it's positive on shield, but you don't get much from it on spacies.

Unless you're fighting somebody who plays incredibly reactively and incredibly optimally, you can usually just stick with good spacing on your aerials and only worry about perfect drops when you want to go in on a shield.

Jabbing a shield and then picking an option is my fav. It's not always safe, but you can use it to condition ppl really easily to pick wrong options or sometimes even stay in shield, since your jab string will beat out grab if they try it, all the way to gentlemen's.

For example: Jab 1 > Jab 2 > Gentlemen's will always beat somebody that shield grabs before the end.

If you do that once, and they wait it out, next time simply: Jab 1 > Grab
Now they have to worry about your fastest grab option every time you grab, and they will almost always pick an option after that happens.

It can sometimes become RPS every time you jab but you just have to be smart and not make it a gamble, just pay attention and remember to make them pick an option.

Hope that helps.