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Ryu's Fundamentals Discussion Thread

Epok

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I just figured out a easy way to get the tilt/ jab to TSRK combo! Haven't seen this on any guide here so I thought I would post.

(These inputs are based off Ryu facing to the right)
Easiest way to TSRK is :GCDR: ,:GCDR:+:GCA:
This turns it into a much less clunky and faster 2 motion input. From what I know This isn't new.

Now here is the important (potentially new) thing: you can start the first :GCDR:directional input of the TSRK while doing you tilt on the cstick.

So:

Up tilt to TSRK: :GCDR:+:GCCU:, :GCDR:+:GCA:
Down tilt to TSRK: :GCDR:+:GCCD: , :GCDR:+:GCA:
Jab to TSRK: :GCCDR:+:GCDR: , :GCDR:+:GCA:

Go into the lab an give it a try.
 

TurboLink

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What should Ryu's neutral game look like against each character? Which moves should be used more than others?
 

CStream

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Yee ive done it on accudent before but inputting it isnt easy especially in mid match. I dont mind practicing it but If someone has an easier method that would be great. I read true shoryu is great oos with tap jump too just dont know where. The trade off may be worth it if u can punish more consistently with it. I use R for jump and cstick for aerials so it shouldnt hurt me that much
In order to reverse a true input you input whatever you're doing and press in the opposite direction. Ex: you're facing right and want a reverse shoryu. Input shoryu in the direction you're facing and press left. Works Vice-Versa.
 

CStream

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I just figured out a easy way to get the tilt/ jab to TSRK combo! Haven't seen this on any guide here so I thought I would post.

(These inputs are based off Ryu facing to the right)
Easiest way to TSRK is :GCDR: ,:GCDR:+:GCA:
This turns it into a much less clunky and faster 2 motion input. From what I know This isn't new.

Now here is the important (potentially new) thing: you can start the first :GCDR:directional input of the TSRK while doing you tilt on the cstick.

So:

Up tilt to TSRK: :GCDR:+:GCCU:, :GCDR:+:GCA:
Down tilt to TSRK: :GCDR:+:GCCD: , :GCDR:+:GCA:
Jab to TSRK: :GCCDR:+:GCDR: , :GCDR:+:GCA:

Go into the lab an give it a try.
This should be posted in Ryu guides. Even though I already knew this it's good stuff. It's especially good since it's a true combo.
 

Emblem Lord

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What should Ryu's neutral game look like against each character? Which moves should be used more than others?
His neutral changes every single match. You gotta give me a character, because he doesnt truly have a universal overtuned option he can fall back on with little regard to spacing/positioning (Melee Falco laser, Brawl MK Nado, Bayonetta Witch Twist, ect.)

His optimal spacing however is usually the same from match to match. He generally wants to hang out about 4 character lengths away. Close enough to threaten with dash grab/dash attack. Far enough that you can re-actively counter poke/attack an approach or option.
 
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TurboLink

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His neutral changes every single match. You gotta give me a character, because he doesnt truly have a universal overtuned option he can fall back on with little regard to spacing/positioning (Melee Falco laser, Brawl MK Nado, Bayonetta Witch Twist, ect.)

His optimal spacing however is usually the same from match to match. He generally wants to hang out about 4 character lengths away. Close enough to threaten with dash grab/dash attack. Far enough that you can re-actively counter poke/attack an approach or option.
How about Falco, Sheik, and Luigi?
 
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Emblem Lord

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Falco - Once you get inside Reflector range just space yourself around hard jab range. He doesnt have anything that can beat you head on. He has to take a risk. Anything he does that you can punish, do so with extreme prejudice. Risk vs reward favors you in any possible neutral scenario. You dont really ever need to jump. Just out poke him. His ftilt and dtilt are solid but they cannot compare to any of your footsie buttons. He has to do something ballsy like dash attack or sh fair. Both have good priority but if Ryu calls them, Falco could die. Extremely risky stuff. He can try to reflector, but the damage is small and he gets no real reward for it. Plus its super unsafe on block.

Sheik - Spacing is very loose in this match. Generally though you want to create a gap thats big enough to entice Sheik to sh fair. If you see it you can hard utilt or hard jab to beat it clean. If you whiff either of those, then expect a punish from her. Your ground buttons outrange hers, so you have a real advantage ground vs ground. Air vs air your bair beats sh fair and so does your fair when timed properly. Trying to land on Sheik with fair when shes in a sh will usually end up with you getting faired yourself. Because Sheik is faster, she has greater control of the spacing. This means you need to be able to react quickly and decisively to show her that even though she has the mobility advantage she is NOT in control. You CAN stop her tools head on, but you need to choose the correct action. Stay loose with empty SHFFs and moves that you dont commit too much like SH Bair. Just to keep her in check and cover your space. If you block a bad fair or bair then Shoryu OoS. Just always watch her and always be readjusting your spacing according to how she moves. She has strong burst options with dash attack and dash grab so keep your eyes open and your reflexes sharp.

Luigi - He has poor burst options overall. Grab is the only true threat. Random cyclone can be strong in footsies if you hit a button, but its a free punish if you block. Any Luigi with half a brain will be weary of using it much. His fireballs are good for controlling the very space that Ryu generally wants to be in, so this match can be a bit tricky for neutral game. Do not fear fireballs. Calmly walk forward and block. If Luigi dashes for you then just roll or spot dodge. Alternatively if you wish to disrespect then you can mash on jab or light and generally that will stuff dash grab attempts. FADC in the air will get you over fireballs as well if you want to go in. But if you are just trying to establish a reactive slower paced footsie game, just get super comfy with powershielding alot and walking alot. If you see a random cyclone and you just want to show Luigi that such actions are not allowed, you can shoryu on reaction. Its really not even hard. If he spaces wtih bair or fair, you have light ftilt that can beat both due to Ryus foot being transcendent. SH Bair also works. The generic Ryu spacing of 3/4 char lengths away works fine and dandy. Still he has stubby buttons so feel free to close that gap if you want to be more oppressive with your neutral and move into footsies.
 

WD40

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His neutral changes every single match. You gotta give me a character, because he doesnt truly have a universal overtuned option he can fall back on with little regard to spacing/positioning (Melee Falco laser, Brawl MK Nado, Bayonetta Witch Twist, ect.)

His optimal spacing however is usually the same from match to match. He generally wants to hang out about 4 character lengths away. Close enough to threaten with dash grab/dash attack. Far enough that you can re-actively counter poke/attack an approach or option.
Thoughts on Marth/Lucina?
 

RoninX1819

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marth does fairly well in neutral vs ryu but its still is in ryus favor. the fact that ryu has a good projectile forces for marth to approach. focus is really good in this match up due to you being able to trap marths landing with it on top of him not having many multihit moves marths side b is pretty good but most marths want to space on your shield and focus is a good way of either geting a punish or taking the hit in focus and canceling in if there to far away for your focus to connect. in footies marths dtilt is pretty good but ryus down smash out of sheild beats it so just shield the first hit and down smash. with his swords new range buff he beats all of ryus air moves so most of your neutral is going to be you staying grounded, baiting and punishing and hanging onto stage control. also a good note is that marths counter is really good for gimping ryu. so the best way to avoid this is to mix it up.
 

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Thoughts on Marth/Lucina?
Fun match. You have tools but always need to be mindful of what Marcina is doing. Shakunetsu and Hadouken are solid at mid range. Punish any whiffed nair/fair with d-smash. Optimal spacing is standard 3/4 char length away, but you can also space to be just outside poking range. Dash grabs are great whiff punishes as well. light shoryu will blow through SH buttons and demands respect. FA in neutral to disrupt button placements and counter poke after taking a hit are solid options. Bait and punish is very strong during the footsie war overall. Generally you will not be able to rely on your buttons to exert your will. Mostly you are being reactive. Dash grab is your main aggro tool at mid range. Using alot of buttons to be oppressive just leads to getting counter poked, though Marcina doesnt have huge reward on hit so making a mistake is not game ending. Overall Marcina buttons > your buttons in head to head confrontations. You need strong reactions and awareness to mitigate this disadvantage during neutral.
 

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Fun match. You have tools but always need to be mindful of what Marcina is doing. Shakunetsu and Hadouken are solid at mid range. Punish any whiffed nair/fair with d-smash. Optimal spacing is standard 3/4 char length away, but you can also space to be just outside poking range. Dash grabs are great whiff punishes as well. light shoryu will blow through SH buttons and demands respect. FA in neutral to disrupt button placements and counter poke after taking a hit are solid options. Bait and punish is very strong during the footsie war overall. Generally you will not be able to rely on your buttons to exert your will. Mostly you are being reactive. Dash grab is your main aggro tool at mid range. Using alot of buttons to be oppressive just leads to getting counter poked, though Marcina doesnt have huge reward on hit so making a mistake is not game ending. Overall Marcina buttons > your buttons in head to head confrontations. You need strong reactions and awareness to mitigate this disadvantage during neutral.
If you don't mind, how would you play against an aggressive Pit? I'm having a hard time with his Shield Pressuring.
 

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He has amazing pokes in terms of range and space control, but several are VERY unsafe. Don't challenge him head on. Bait stuff and punish. When he misspaces something on your shield thats a shoryu OoS. And whiffed button is a dash grab. For point of reference in terms of safety, Marths dtilt is -2 on tipper hit, when shielded and the opponent drops shield. Or Ike who is at -7 and his dtilt leads to combos and follow-up pressure. Pit? He's -13. Meaning after you block a dtilt, you can drop your shield and thats a free d-smash or dash grab. Even if he spaces perfectly. Pits ftilt is -15 on block. So yeah he def outspaces you. But he needs to be sure or he gets punished.

If you see the Pit favors SH approaches, then shut it down with hard utilt and light shoryus.

Spacing and tactics are similar to the Cloud and Marcina match-up. The goal is to win through superior punishment and bait tactics. Not to outright challenge. Just keep in mind that Pit overall isnt very safe or super threatening off hits save d-throw at low percents. He is a toolbox character but lacking in his advantage state besides edgeguarding really.
 

money1246

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Emblem Lord Emblem Lord what do I vs Link, Samus and Diddy? In other words, how do I play neutral vs those characters? I have trouble vs their projectiles even when I try to play a ground based game. When I go to the air, they read me and it gets worse.
 

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Link - Lots of counter play is needed. He has some very safe aerials on block when spaced well with fair, nair, bair and zair. Zair is really serious in terms of space control. Focus Attack is good for dealing with Zair and his grounded buttons of ftilt and dtilt. FA is also good for dealing with boomerangs and arrows. Generally aerial FADC is good because you can tank a hit then dash in and once you land you can still keep closing space. Also using FA on the ground opens you up for that tether grab into d-throw set-ups, even at mid range due to his grabs length. Generally you want to play your spacing a bit closer since his close range options are slower then yous while his mid range options are better. His ftilt hits on frame 15. Dtilt his on frame 11. Both are pretty safe at -6 and -2 on shield drop respectively. His jab is frame 7 and if he ends with the second hit he is only -4 on shield drop. Though at that spacing a JC aerial from shield might catch him or at least allow some pressure. I need to test that further. Don't just come at him from high in the air btw. His usmash and utilt are good anti airs. To close in you will want really solid defense and evasion. Be able to perfect shield projectiles then shield drop and continue walking forward. If he suddenly advances on you to disrupt your careful approach just be prepared to roll or spot dodge. More then likely he wants a grab. Bombs can be used against him. They do not blow up on block so you can block then snatch them and use them for your own offense/approach/mid range game. You could also just aim to catch them in mid air. Hadoukens aren't that good since all his projectiles beat them as well as zair destroying them easily. Just focus on closing space and staying vigilant for his zoning. No wall is impenetrable. Every zoner has holes you can exploit.

Samus - Similar rules of engagement to Link. Be on the look out for Zair. Missiles are a bit easier to deal with then Links zoning. She can penetrate your spacing not only with dash grab, but a nice dash attack as well. Her ftilt and dtilt have good start up at 8 and 6 frames, but are very unsafe on shield drop at -11 and -18. She does have a 3 frame jab however which is -4 on shield drop. Her dash attack is also pretty dang fast, hitting on frame 8. Charge shot also makes mid range dangerous when she has it and demands high level reactions so you can dodge or move out of the way if need be. Ideal range is inside her tilt range but far enough that an up b wont catch you, at least not consistently. Her up b is a solid defensive option that can shut down overzealous aerial approaches. At this range she can still jab, but her jab is not really scary and really only leads to mix-ups. However, here you can pressure with d-smash which she can't punish well even with a tether grab as long as you are spaced well. At this range she also has to be smart with defensive options. Expect jump back zair to reset her spacing and spot dodges as defensive maneuvers. If she rolls thats a free grab or dash shoryu.

Diddy - Tough stuff. The one match I think all Ryu mains agree that he loses even if its just slightly. Generally you want to be outside his dtilt range. His dtilt is frame 4 and very safe on shield drop at -2. It also confirms into grabs, another dtilt or smash attacks. It's one of the best footsie tools in the game. He has a great fair as well which comes out on frame 6 and has a huge hitbox. Though its not very safe. If you block it, you can to pressure him, even if it was an auto cancel. If he lands with it then hes boned. Make him feel pain. Monkey Flip gives him another strong mix-up tool. Since he can command grab from it or side kick, its easy to keep opponents guessing. Mix in his dominant grab game and you have a neutral monster. There is no easy way to deal with Diddy at mid/footsie distance. Shield is strong vs fair and will protect you vs dtilt, but will lose to his command grab and dash grab. Trying to stay loose is good sometimes with mixing in empty hops, but can outright lose to his huge fair. We havent even gotten into the standard gameplan of hold onto a banana and wait in shield, allowing Diddy to stay in control even when on defense. You need to know your best options. Generally, Ryus light ftilt will do work in this match. It can beat alot of Diddy's stuff head on since Ryus foot is intangible. It will beat dtilt, fair, monkey flip options and reckless dash grabs. Its active on frame 8 till frame 11. 4 frames. Really good stuff. You can also get follow ups at low percents. Beyond footsie range you can re-actively shoryu monkey flip options. So if you are fighting a diddy that gets flip happy at mid range, keep that option in your back pocket.

If you decide to mix in empty hops to keep him guessing then remember your fair will trade with his usually and so does bair. You win those trades in terms of damage. So dont be afraid to throw those out occasionally to keep him honest if you notice the diddy wants to fair in footsies. Focus Attack also craps all over his fair. Tank the hit then pop him in the jaw and get your combo/follow-up.

Shakunetsu hadouken is solid. His fair can beat it, but generally that only works if he already committed to it. Shaku can keep him suppressed and put fairly safe pressure on his shield. Shaku will lose to banana toss however so you may wish to stick to normal hadoukens when he is holding onto a banana. Speaking of which, banana holding diddy is tough to deal with. Just remember if he is holding onto that, then he can't play footsies with his dominant normals vs you. You can now dictate that aspect of the match. Just be mindful of nana toss out of shield. If you are close and Diddy is sitting in shield, then a quick dash grab can catch him off guard and give you advantage. Another trick is dash in then turn around but still SH towards Diddy so your back is facing him. Then come down with a fair. The sour spot fair or cross up fair for my SF vets is very safe on block. It will push the defender towards the direction Ryu is facing, and past him completely. This looks very awkward. An opponent may reflexively attempt to punish. In this case Diddy would toss the banana. Then you get a free d-smash very easily or dash grab for some stage control. Generally just remember Diddy with a banana usually is looking to punish something for free damage. If he simply throws the nana at your shield, most of the time you can just roll and reset to neutral and you block the banana.

Really have to know all your options in this match. I have beaten strong Diddy's and lost to strong Diddy's. Its a tough one, so never get down on yourself.

My apologies for the late response.
 
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AnchorTea

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I thought of a bait Ryu can do, I havent tested it on a real player, but I think it may work. If your opponent is off-stage, input a slow shakenetsu so they will react by jumping, you can then punish with a dair or something like that. I dont know if its effective or if it will even work, but its worth a shot.
 

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Emblem Lord Emblem Lord any advice dealing with Ness/Sonic/Fox?
Sorry for late response. Real life and all that.

Remember this is just spacing and neutral game advice.

Ness - Standard 3 char length spacing. Watch out for PK Fire. On block you get a free punish. His dash grab, dash attack and fair are also mainstays of his neutral. When you see Ness dash at you, generally a roll forward can reset you to neutral. Hard utilt and light shoryu will straight up beat his fair clean. Blocked fair from him isn't as safe as you think. It's -9 on shield drop and thats a perfect last hit spaced fair. You can dash grab that but it must be perfect. His bair is pretty dang safe though and also disjointed. A good chunk of his buttons are disjoints. Don't try to challenge them except with disjoints of your own. So basically fair to fair will lose and stuff like that. If you get grabbed, DI away because you know it's a d-throw. If you are fast enough you can mash a shoryu on his follow ups. Same if you get hit with a PK fire actually. They can bait that and respond though, so don't get too abusive with it. SH bair is ok vs dash ins. Stay mobile because dash grab and dash attack are heavy commitment on his part, then you can punish. Shakunetsu can be ok because if he absorbs too close to you, then you can punish him and he only restores 1% anyway. Make sure to punish whiffed aerials with easy d-smashes, dash grabs or dash shoryus. Ness players generally like to throw out a fair in neutral to create a zone then fade back. Make Ness pay for it.


Sonic - Resist the urge to back away. It gives the illusion of safety. There is no where safe from Sonic. Instead close the space to 3 char lengths or 2 depending on your confidence and reaction time. This forces Sonic to run or try to beat you at the mid range. He will need to commit more. Button for button he loses. In terms of damage, frame data and safety he cannot compete at this range. He needs to blitz you, but rapid dtilts and jabs will beat many rush down options like dash grab or dash attack. Spin dashes as well. Basically this spacing forces Sonic to gamble more if he actually wants to attack. Its an uncomfortable position. The occasional hadouken can keep him on his toes, but spin dash invincibility can negate their space controlling purpose. Random homing attack is a thing. Loses clean to hard utilt. Otherwise you can spot dodge then punish. Spin dashes on block can be tricky. Rolling away on block is something that pretty much always works. Reset to neutral, no risk taking. But also no potential reward or transition to advantage. So if you block one and you want to punish, just watch and respond. If he jumps after hitting shield then JC Bair. If he did nothing then you can attempt a grab or shield drop dtilt/utilt pressure. Just remember to never give a Sonic too much breathing room in the match. That is a mistake that gives him all the space in the world to run circles around you and bait something he can punish. And dont get intimidated by Sonic sitting one place charging. Just calmly close the distance and be ready to shield. If he does that when you are at your optimal spacing, then rush down with a dash grab. Show him you have no fear.


Fox - Similar to Sonic in how to play the neutral. But this time you dont want to back away because you will just get lasers shot at you all day. Also similar to Sonic in that button for button fox can't win in footsies. He needs to rushdown OR hardcore run away. Same strategy though. Close the space down and be oppressive with tilts, hard jab and make sure you punish his errors. He is prey to utilt combos so keep that in mind when you see a punish opportunity. Good foxes will use perfect pivot utilts to close space and attempt to get a conversion. Far safer then just jumping at Ryu. Still utilt is -10 on shield drop. Easy d-smash or hard jab. His ftilt and dtilt are far safer. Still these can be outspaced and outdamaged by Ryus buttons at that spacing. Risk vs reward def favors Ryu in footsie exchanges. SH Dair can punish whiffed pokes and counter pokes Ryus crouching buttons. It leads to good damage or a kill conversion. But it is high risk, as its unsafe on block. -7 on shield drop. So remember that because that spells an easy utilt combo or set-up. Or just an up b OoS. If Fox tries to reset to neutral alot with fox illusion, SH nair can beat it head on or any lasting hitbox really. Nair is just easy. Alternatively you can roll back and then go for a punish.
 

malicecrossrevolver

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I made a video on closing the gap with dashes to start a combo. It probably is common knowledge, but it's good to quantify these things for all.
 

smash alpha

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I have a guide that goes over good ways to play Ryu in the neutral if anyone wants to check it out. It's called How to Ryu
 

Heracr055

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How do you approach the neutral for Yoshi and Pikachu? Both have annoying projectiles that are effective for keep-away and approach options. In addition, they have multi-hit aerials that can be useful for spacing and zoning. Yoshi's neutral air and jab also keep me from getting in on him.
 
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LeifEriksson

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How do you approach the neutral for Yoshi and Pikachu? Both have annoying projectiles that are effective for keep-away and approach options. In addition, they have multi-hit aerials that can be useful for spacing and zoning. Yoshi's neutral air and jab also keep me from getting in on him.
I've learned that you can't approach pikachu, wait for him to approach. He's going to do something stupid like Up B, and you just have to read and punish it. I use nair, weak up tilt, or strong dtilt to punish up b, depending on where he is at the end of it.

I don't have any tips for yoshi though, sorry.
 

Castell

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How viable is this DI trap?

When hit by FAlvl2/3, most people are DI-ing outwards to live. I don't have another person to test it with me right now, but wouldn't it be possible to FADC and run past, do a B-reversed TSRK and trick the opponent into doing the worst possible DI? I'd imagine the initial dash from the FADC would make it fairly ambiguous.
 

SonofCereal

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How viable is this DI trap?

When hit by FAlvl2/3, most people are DI-ing outwards to live. I don't have another person to test it with me right now, but wouldn't it be possible to FADC and run past, do a B-reversed TSRK and trick the opponent into doing the worst possible DI? I'd imagine the initial dash from the FADC would make it fairly ambiguous.
I think I remember seeing Trela using that in a couple of matches. Mix it up and they can consistently die earlier than they should.
 

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I made a video on closing the gap with dashes to start a combo. It probably is common knowledge, but it's good to quantify these things for all.
Is there a word for the double tap method described 56 seconds in? I know it looks like a fox trot but a fox trot would have the same delay problem as a normal run. This tech seems like a really big deal but I've never seen it discussed outside this video. Also is this just a Ryu thing or can other characters do it?
 
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Pink'd

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Dunno if this is the right thread, but I'll ask anyway. How do you fight an aggressive character/player as Ryu? One of my friends likes to play aggressive with Mario, Marth, and Roy, and I dont know how to combat it. He's more laid back with other characters, and he's really good at reading me, but I figure I shouldn't be losing so hard to his Mario and Marth.
 

LeifEriksson

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Dunno if this is the right thread, but I'll ask anyway. How do you fight an aggressive character/player as Ryu? One of my friends likes to play aggressive with Mario, Marth, and Roy, and I dont know how to combat it. He's more laid back with other characters, and he's really good at reading me, but I figure I shouldn't be losing so hard to his Mario and Marth.
Remember your out of shield options. Up b, up smash, and shield grab are all wonderful tools for punishing. And you want to be spacing them out with blue hadoken and strong dtilt in the neutral.
 

Megamang

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If you can predict his aggression, you should practice hard powershield punishes.
 

CStream

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Dunno if this is the right thread, but I'll ask anyway. How do you fight an aggressive character/player as Ryu? One of my friends likes to play aggressive with Mario, Marth, and Roy, and I dont know how to combat it. He's more laid back with other characters, and he's really good at reading me, but I figure I shouldn't be losing so hard to his Mario and Marth.
I would try and predict his offensive options, and also decide which moves are or aren't safe for him to use and to pair appropriate punish options accordingly. One way to combat Marth is shaku hovered, this is a shaku that's placed to minimize their options. There should be a video by Hooded about it, anyway use that to see how he responds. If he jumps place the shaku where he'll jump, if he shields bai him to shield and grab and so on. While I used Marth as an example this same process of thinking can be applied to other character. I just chose Marth since I know what to do even though I don't fight many Marths.
 

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Smash Apprentice
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I would try and predict his offensive options, and also decide which moves are or aren't safe for him to use and to pair appropriate punish options accordingly. One way to combat Marth is shaku hovered, this is a shaku that's placed to minimize their options. There should be a video by Hooded about it, anyway use that to see how he responds. If he jumps place the shaku where he'll jump, if he shields bai him to shield and grab and so on. While I used Marth as an example this same process of thinking can be applied to other character. I just chose Marth since I know what to do even though I don't fight many Marths.
Thanks. I'll try that.
 
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