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Running Jabs, Tilts and Charged Smash Attacks w/ Inputs

Dire Creeper

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
147
Location
Hickory, NC
NNID
Dire_Creeper
Everyone knows the usual moves you can use out of a run - grab, JC grab, up smash, crouch cancel d-tilt, etc. However there are five attacks that are highly unused this way and can actually be used effectively out of run - jab, f-tilt, u-tilt, and charged f-smash and d-smash. The inputs for each action are displayed below with the corresponding GIF.

Note that this applies to all of the following:
  • Running in this case is not the initial dash. You cannot perform these during the initial dash.
  • All characters can perform these (should be obvious).
  • The inputs below are frame perfect and they do not have to be frame perfect to be performed.
  • Frame 1 = The frame you press down on the analog stick during a run to crouch.
  • >> = Continue holding the previous input such as an analog stick direction.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Running Jab:


Frame 1: :GCD:
Frame 2: >>
Frame 3: :GCN:
Frame 3 or Later: :GCA:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Running F-Tilt:


Frame 1: :GCD:
Frame 2: >>
Frame 3: :GCL:/:GCR: (Depending on the direction you're facing)
Frame 4: >>
Frame 5: :GCA:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Running U-Tilt:


Frame 1: :GCD:
Frame 2: >>
Frame 3: :GCU: (Slightly raised like for normal u-tilts)
Frame 4: >>
Frame 5: :GCA:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Running Charged F-Smash:


Frame 1: :GCD:
Frame 2: >>
Frame 3: :GCL:/:GCR: :GCA: (You can use a reverse charged f-smash (seen below)).



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Running Charged D-Smash:


Frame 1: :GCD:
Frame 1-2: :GCA: (In summary simultaneously w/ analog stick down)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me know what you think!
 
Last edited:

GenNyan

Smash Ace
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
574
Location
Florida
Thats pretty cool. Its like an easier alternative to pivoting (In some applications, not all obviously).
 

Pauer

The Pauerful
Moderator
Joined
Dec 25, 2013
Messages
592
Location
Linz, Austria
Stickied.
I don't see why this should be stickied. It's an informative and visually very appealing post but by that standard most of the compendium of knowledge should be stickied.
Rather, I think you should make an appeal to add it there. If you want the thread to get more attention, perhaps share it on reddit since good quality posts will naturally rise to the hot list there.

I think the same is true for that netplay guide you stickied a while back. The author didn't even respond to very reasonable criticism by Y - L !!
 

ECHOnce

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
1,191
Location
Bellevue, WA
These are just dash/run cancels lol...not sure why this should get stickied.
 
Last edited:

scratch428

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 11, 2015
Messages
3
Location
West Chester
Running --> crouch is a good way to easily switch from running to a neutral position if you don't want to wavedash.
You can also run > crouch > dash opposite way to get a dash dance effect after a run
 

Stratocaster

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
672
Location
Knoxville, TN
So the mechanics of this is well understood and nothing new at all, though it may be new for some. You can crouch out of a run, and you can use normals out of a crouch.

As for the 5 moves you have mentioned that are not well utilized:

Charged smash attacks are bad in neutral at all but the lowest levels. It only gives more time to react.

The up tilts of the relevant characters don't cover the front very well. Run up and up tilt is generally a terrible approach for the top tiers. Wavedash up tilt is better because you can turn around first.

Ftilt is only really useful for Sheik. Outside of Sheik, most of the top tiers don't have that great of ftilts. You will see wavedash preferred here (it's my preference as well) because it requires precise spacing which is harder to achieve out of a run.

As for jab, running jab is pretty good. Fox's is super good. Running jab -> Up Smash is an good approach with low commitment and high reward (except for against excessive crouch cancelers). You can see Leffen use it pretty often. It's actually Fox's furthest reaching threatening hitbox (as in, if you could hit someone with a running jab where you couldn't reach with a Nair). It's pretty common, but you may not see it because technically it's not safe on hit against a grounded opponent because of ASDID.

I don't see anything here as under-utilized, especially on the pro level. The top level players know their options very well, and there's a reason if they're not using them.
 

CAUP

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
467
Why in the world is this stickied??!?! there are so many more deserving postal literally no offense to the OP. This is a good, informative post
 

GenNyan

Smash Ace
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
574
Location
Florida
So the mechanics of this is well understood and nothing new at all, though it may be new for some. You can crouch out of a run, and you can use normals out of a crouch.

He never claimed this was new/revolutionary. It simply explained a concept that was not widely discussed in a clear, concise manner.

As for the 5 moves you have mentioned that are not well utilized:

Charged smash attacks are bad in neutral at all but the lowest levels. It only gives more time to react.

Nobody said that this technique could only be used in neutral. This can be used to tech chase or finish a combo. And this technique doesn't require you to charge them anyways.

The up tilts of the relevant characters don't cover the front very well. Run up and up tilt is generally a terrible approach for the top tiers. Wavedash up tilt is better because you can turn around first.

Again, it can be used to continue combos. Also Marth's Utilt is a good combo starter if he has a good read in neutral.

Ftilt is only really useful for Sheik. Outside of Sheik, most of the top tiers don't have that great of ftilts. You will see wavedash preferred here (it's my preference as well) because it requires precise spacing which is harder to achieve out of a run.

Yeah, thats mostly true. Though f-tilt might come in handy for Falco when the opponent is at high percents and by the edge.

As for jab, running jab is pretty good. Fox's is super good. Running jab -> Up Smash is an good approach with low commitment and high reward (except for against excessive crouch cancelers). You can see Leffen use it pretty often. It's actually Fox's furthest reaching threatening hitbox (as in, if you could hit someone with a running jab where you couldn't reach with a Nair). It's pretty common, but you may not see it because technically it's not safe on hit against a grounded opponent because of ASDID.

Yep, and other top tiers can get some followups off jabs, as well as simply being good for disrupting movement (not to mention jab resets.

I don't see anything here as under-utilized, especially on the pro level. The top level players know their options very well, and there's a reason if they're not using them.

I don't think that OP meant top players underutilize it, they obviously know about it (Not to mention they are unlikely to read this thread). This is probably meant to showcase applications of the technique to newer players.

Those utilts are so hard. Been labbing them for a bit. Any advice?
Try doing them slowly at first, then gradually speed it up once you can do it slow consistently. Its an awfully good strategy for learning any tech.
 
Last edited:

Pauer

The Pauerful
Moderator
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Dec 25, 2013
Messages
592
Location
Linz, Austria
This information is so old it boggles my mind that it's actually new to some people.
Old doesn't necessarily mean accessible for new players.

Unless you are a Marth main, odds are you haven't messed with run cancels too much. When starting out at least.

I'm sure this post helped some fox players understand how top-level foxes fish for jabs versus floaties at high percent.
 

Sleepy Driz

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 24, 2014
Messages
62
Location
Gainesville, FL
Old doesn't necessarily mean accessible for new players.

Unless you are a Marth main, odds are you haven't messed with run cancels too much. When starting out at least.

I'm sure this post helped some fox players understand how top-level foxes fish for jabs versus floaties at high percent.
Not to mention run up down tilt as Fox... umff so juicy
 
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