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Roy Video Thread 2.0

Zarenthye

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
6
Location
Illinois
I like the Falcon matchup. I'll post my thoughts on game 10.

Match 10:

0:09 - Falcon nairs into shield here, so he's probably trying to read your DD > DED.

0:15 - I see an opportunity for waveland onto platform > regrab. SH Uair covers a bunch of options but doesn't really lead to anything else at that percent.

0:18 - Pretty end to the first stock. The dtilt at the ledge feels a little unsafe after you pushed him onto the ledge, but you dashed out of it quick enough to bait him into ledgehopping at you.

0:28 - A couple of tech timing errors here. Also, I noticed you have a little habit of jumping every time after landing a dtilt, which didn't work out for you. DED/grab/another dtilt/waiting for the tech would have been better.

0:32 - Got caught in your wavedash lag, probably should have just spotdodged the sideB. Afterwards it looks like some suspect combo DI.

0:42 - He outspaced you, but these aerials would have been unsafe versus crouch cancelling anyway.

0:59 - Not sure what the full jump was for, but good spacing on the fair. After the dtilt, you jumped again when you could have just walked into an fsmash. I think you could have fastfalled and fsmashed anyway, but yeah. At this percent, I don't see much potential in aerial followups besides like tipper uair for style.

1:05 - I'm guessing that was a SH uair instead of utilt, but the dair landing lag messed you up. He catches your wavedash again with his sideB.

1:23 - Ftilt won't catch anything here unless you wait a little longer.

1:48 - It's best to not jump until you know he's going for the platform, since that's the only spot where you'd need to jump to cover.

1:51 - Nice job avoiding the grab. You had a crossup situation afterwards on his shield but the dair wasn't optimal and neither was the dtilt.

2:08 and 2:12 - Two instances of you missing a grab opportunity, dtilting his shield and then eating an aerial after you choose an option after your dtilt. The first time you tried to dtilt again, and the second time you jumped. He'll just keep jumping OoS at you with aerials until you stuff his jump with higher hitting moves.

2:16 - Great dtilt, but the fsmash could have been another fair or maybe Blazer.

2:23 - Coulda jumped off and Blazered for the kill

2:47 - Reverse Blazer!

2:50 - You had a great tech read opportunity here after the first fair. Staying grounded and chasing would have been better imo, especially since he's been neutral teching most of the match.

3:11 - Dtilt > uair > fsmash feels like it would have ended the game

The most pertinent things I have to say after watching a few matches would be:

- manage your dtilt usage on shield
- kick the habit of always jumping after landing dtilt
- quickly recognize sourspot dtilts
- tighten up your techchase game off stray hits
- Try using DED>>^ at mid percents?
- be more patient with edgeguarding Falcon's recovery
- make Falcon respect your grab more
- expand your recovering from the ledge game

That was a little long. I hope I don't come off as negative, as I tried to talk mostly about the errors I saw.
 

vZakat

Half Genie
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
2,262
Location
Scuttle Town
That was a little long. I hope I don't come off as negative, as I tried to talk mostly about the errors I saw.
Not at all. This is the kind of stuff I'm wanting to see more of. I've been busy but I really wanna try and stir up some deep intelligent discussions about things concerning roy. Thanks for the input. This is actually one of my worst match ups.
 

darkoblivion12

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 24, 2009
Messages
1,102
Location
Buffalo

♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡

Anti-Illuminati
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,863
Hey guys, haven't posted in a while. Played a tournament recently and did well. Give critiques of these if you'd like or feel free to just ogle.

vs Peach
http://www.twitch.tv/hitboxarena/b/604737023?t=47m
vs Gunblade (Marth) in winners
www.twitch.tv/hitboxarena/b/604769949?t=9m30s
vs Gunblade (Marth) in losers
www.twitch.tv/hitboxarena/b/604769949?t=1h30m
vs IC's :)
http://www.twitch.tv/hitboxarena/b/604769949?t=1h17m30s
vs Zofrea (Shiek)
www.twitch.tv/hitboxarena/b/604769949?t=1h52m30s
LOOOL at the second match vs. Peach. Two DEDs kills in a row? Priceless. You should make a GIF out of that

Roy is calling my heart but he sucks. Dunno, perhaps I develop him as a Fox counter or something
 

vZakat

Half Genie
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
2,262
Location
Scuttle Town
Your ledge dashes are SO GOOD. I wish my ledge game was that smooth. lol

Edit - Shout outs to 2222 post :colorful:
 
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camerino1

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
1,295
Location
Sudbury, Ontario
Dang that was nice. I only have 1 match uploaded of my Roy recently, and it was against Raynex... so yeah, it didn't look too good.
 

Zarenthye

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
6
Location
Illinois
loooooool your reaction to the fox DI at 5:03

and I agree with zakat, I'm going to grind out the Pyro-patented ledge tech
 

Comet7

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
1,027
Location
Somewhere over the rainbow
NNID
Comet7
I just want to say that the moonwalk in the first match looked really cool even though it only seemed to help with stage position a bit (which is important of course, but I digress). That alone makes me want to work on my scrubby Roy.
 
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kingPiano

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
574
Dude definitely had that Twist DI on FD

Gotta love those wave lands from ledge with Roy, though against really high level players it's easily read unless you WL grab or mix up. You were getting pretty predictable with them I'm surprised he didn't punish them hard. Regardless it's awesome seeing a Roy get a 4 stock against a filthy space animal. #rRustyroyisourboy
 
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darkoblivion12

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 24, 2009
Messages
1,102
Location
Buffalo
Dude definitely had that Twist DI on FD

Gotta love those wave lands from ledge with Roy, though against really high level players it's easily read unless you WL grab or mix up. You were getting pretty predictable with them I'm surprised he didn't punish them hard. Regardless it's awesome seeing a Roy get a 4 stock against a filthy space animal. #rRustyroyisourboy
A skilled Roy can beat any Fox. :3

No but really, I didn't care that the ledge dashes were predictable. He never forced me to mix it up. He just kept getting hit. If I see someone falling for the same trick over and over, I'm going to abuse that.t

The third game he started to adapt to it a little, so I started dash dancing more. I have a pretty good flow chart for edge stuff that you don't see there.
 

kingPiano

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
574
A skilled Roy can beat any Fox. :3 #Kappa

No but really, I didn't care that the ledge dashes were predictable. He never forced me to mix it up. He just kept getting hit. If I see someone falling for the same trick over and over, I'm going to abuse that.t

The third game he started to adapt to it a little, so I started dash dancing more. I have a pretty good flow chart for edge stuff that you don't see there.
Yea I know you didn't care here. To me though getting away with stuff like that can start to regress your play-style, even if you're having fun with a baddie.

I've seen almost all your recorded matches because you're one of the very few remaining active Roy mains which is awesome.

There's a few things I find effective in my usage of Roy, take em as tips or just another perspective but these have been tourney tested and on good players:

1. Use a lot more grabs and tech chase grabs/ follow ups (DD grabs, WD grabs), it's one of the few things Roy has as an adv. insane grab range like Marth and you see Marth mains grab/pummel much more.

2. WD F-smashes and D-smashes (yes it's slow; but it often catches people since the front comes out fast, it's safe at mid-high percents or as combo finisher, does 21 damage, good to avoid stale move loss and adds mix up, shield pokes well)

3. In general edge-guarding needs to be more relentless and consistent. Reaction time is pretty much it since it seems you already know what tools to use on what characters and when. Roy has a great edge guard game, almost every top tier aside from peach should never be able make it back once off.

4. Jump in flare blades - no one ever expects the bottom sweep reach of the generous hitboxes, comes out fast. Good as mix up, doesn't do a ton of damage uncharged but can throw off momentum in neutral. Has 10-15 frames of end lag once you land depending on how well you space the bottom arc.

5. More wave-lands

6. Use spot dodges, especially spot dodges to grabs (soooo effective even at high level)

7. Counter as a good mix up in neutral and on/off edge. I think this is a really under utilized move across almost all Roys. It can leave you open and has a small window, but once you use it well it can start to condition an opponent and it can add on tons of damage when landed (think of as a reverse hard read). There are certain scenarios where you know they will aerial attack you (both jumping at each other) and other situations where you know what's coming (Ganondorf coming from above - Dair, Falcon coming at you - knee, Fox/Falco from below - jump up > upair or Dair from Falco). I like to use it in neutral when I'm at low percents where the punish would be minimal, and I will use it a ton one match then very sparingly the next match and mix up it's usage constantly like that. This actually starts to heavily condition the opponent, they start second guessing if they want to attack and when they want to. Has a similar effect as a fully charged Samus shot, just actively knowing it's there is a mind game (even if you never use it again). It can really throw people off if someone knows that you do use it unlike most Marths/Roys.
 
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darkoblivion12

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 24, 2009
Messages
1,102
Location
Buffalo
Yea I know you didn't care here. To me though getting away with stuff like that can start to regress your play-style, even if you're having fun with a baddie.

I've seen almost all your recorded matches because you're one of the very few remaining active Roy mains which is awesome.

There's a few things I find effective in my usage of Roy, take em as tips or just another perspective but these have been tourney tested and on good players:

1. Use a lot more grabs and tech chase grabs/ follow ups (DD grabs, WD grabs), it's one of the few things Roy has as an adv. insane grab range like Marth and you see Marth mains grab/pummel much more.

2. WD F-smashes and D-smashes (yes it's slow; but it often catches people since the front comes out fast, it's safe at mid-high percents or as combo finisher, does 21 damage, good to avoid stale move loss and adds mix up, shield pokes well)

3. In general edge-guarding needs to be more relentless and consistent. Reaction time is pretty much it since it seems you already know what tools to use on what characters and when. Roy has a great edge guard game, almost every top tier aside from peach should never be able make it back once off.

4. Jump in flare blades - no one ever expects the bottom sweep reach of the generous hitboxes, comes out fast. Good as mix up, doesn't do a ton of damage uncharged but can throw off momentum in neutral. Has 10-15 frames of end lag once you land depending on how well you space the bottom arc.

5. More wave-lands

6. Use spot dodges, especially spot dodges to grabs (soooo effective even at high level)

7. Counter as a good mix up in neutral and on/off edge. I think this is a really under utilized move across almost all Roys. It can leave you open and has a small window, but once you use it well it can start to condition an opponent and it can add on tons of damage when landed (think of as a reverse hard read). There are certain scenarios where you know they will aerial attack you (both jumping at each other) and other situations where you know what's coming (Ganondorf coming from above - Dair, Falcon coming at you - knee, Fox/Falco from below - jump up > upair or Dair from Falco). I like to use it in neutral when I'm at low percents where the punish would be minimal, and I will use it a ton one match then very sparingly the next match and mix up it's usage constantly like that. This actually starts to heavily condition the opponent, they start second guessing if they want to attack and when they want to. Has a similar effect as a fully charged Samus shot, just actively knowing it's there is a mind game (even if you never use it again). It can really throw people off if someone knows that you do use it unlike most Marths/Roys.
Wally isn't actually bad. He beat me the last time we played... I just decided I wanted to win here...

1. My tech chase game usually turns into dtilts or other moves quickly. I've found that as guaranteed as tech chases are, limiting your options to only tech chases limits you as a player. Learn how to convert off of many situations with many different moves. Players can escape tech chases with smart techs and good DI. It's not always completely guaranteed.

2. I'll only do this if I'm pretty confident they'll get hit. It's a once a match thing, and even then, it's incredibly unsafe against higher caliber players who know the Roy matchup.

3. I agree with consistent. I haven't been practicing much Marth recently, so I need to work on it more. My Falco/Fox flowchart is pretty good, but not unbeatable. There are things that need work, such as high recoveries.

4. I do need to work on this, in particular converting off sweet spot uair.

5. I guess? I think theoretically Roy can do some Ganon **** with waveland ftilts... No Impact Lands are actually better a lot times.

6. That is not going to work. This isn't Brawl :p

7. Yes and no. I've been playing S4 Lil Mac who has a really solid counter, so I've been getting practice with that. On the same note, I have a spectacular PS game... Like absurdly good. PS->stuff is 10x better than trying to predict things with counter.

Here's a scenario:
Fox runs at you and jumps. You think he's going to ff nair. That's pretty normal for Fox. So would you rather predict the nair and try to:
A. Counter
B. PS -> (Grab, jab, dtilt)

Counter doesn't kill until high percent and is kinda slow to come out, to the point where people can react to it. If it misses, you eat death. Counter is risky but easy to perform.
PS to things will set up for death stuff. If you miss your PS, you either eat a hit and CC it or go into shield and still don't die. So overall PSing things is safe but difficult.
 
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LSDX

Wah!
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
1,041
Location
Illinois
Posted one of these in another thread, but here's my super hot fire 2015 Roy for anyone interested.


 

Jink8

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 4, 2015
Messages
277
Here's a few combo videos for you all to enjoy, Roy is life.


 
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