Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[SchAlternate]

His new voice actor is freaking fantastic. I love having the guy who voiced Ezio voicing him!!!

God, that line was one of the best things in Colors. Colors was a really good game.

 

[Johnknight1]

Guys, are we really going back to the "Lucario replaced Mewtwo" thing?

As Habanero's signature reads...

"People are probably the dumbest creatures alive."

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I was only kidding. They already gave my favorite Pokemon (Gengar) an ugly Mega. They gave one of my other favorites an ugly Mega (Gyarados). They already desecrated my memories by giving Kanto Starters and Mewtwo some pretty ugly Megas. I honestly don't care anymore. Some Megas turn out great and make me like Pokemon I have never even liked. Ampharos and Mawille being two big ones.

Funny how mega forms will do that for some people; make some of their favorite Pokemon uglier for them, while making them like other Pokemon they previously didn't care about even more.

That said, I guess I'm not too crazy about Gengar's mega form either. Always thought Haunter looked cooler as a ghost anyway, though Genger's always had more charm in a way due to its comical nature. Its mega form though... I don't know. It might grow on me in time, maybe.

Gyarados I feel they didn't even change that much when it came to a mega form. Made it look more cool as a sea dragon/serpent though I guess.

Anyway, theorizing on how other Pokemon could have mega forms > talking about the Lucario replacing Mewtwo mentality of 2008.

 

[Johnknight1]

Relevancy be damned if someone isn't unique; isn't that your line of thought?

No, I said relevancy should get you considered, but ultimately, only the best potential newcomers should be playable.

Characters' originality (including things like moveset potential) play a huge role in their popularity, actually. Part of the appeal of Wario was how weird and wild he is and how unlike anything else he is. Part of the appeal of Bowser is how brutal and powerful he is in ways no other Nintendo character he is.

 

[Morbi]

As Habanero's signature reads...

"People are probably the dumbest creatures alive."

That isn't really fair at all. Courte was only arguing that Lucario replaced Mewtwo in essence. He wasn't literally saying that there was a correlation between Mewtwo's disappearance and Lucario's appearance. They are very different things. The essence is more of a subjective notion. Not to mention it is the premise that MOST people encounter when they view the situation pragmatically. Not everyone knows how Sakurai develops the game. The common consensus isn't that Mewtwo was almost done. It is actually common sense to assert that Mewtwo was replaced. The predominant reason being that Mewtwo was gone and Lucario was playable. This is literally an OBJECTIVE FACT. These two Pokemon are commonly associated. The neutral special didn't really define the two either. They have had very similar roles and archetypes. Relevancy also plays a key role. To call the majority of players ignorant would be ideal, calling the majority of Smash fans "unintelligent" for not knowing the ins and outs of Brawl's development is unnecessary.

Not to mention, Courte's argument is actually valid. There is not rebuttal to such an argument. Why? I will repeat myself, AGAIN. The circumstances are irrelevant. Mewtwo is not playable. Lucario is. So effectively, if any rational being associates the two, their opinion is warranted. The proximate cause is not relevant. The objective fact is the only significant part of the argument.

Look up essence. You will find that essence is very different from something such as the literal being or action.

 

[SchAlternate]

At least Mega Gardevoir looks alright.

 

[Johnknight1]

Lucario didn't replace Mewtwo.

The Subspace Emissary did.

Now, Mewtwo is replacing the Subspace Emissary.

 

[Morbi]

At least Mega Gardevoir looks alright.

That is my favorite Mega actually. There are other Megas that I really like. However, I have always liked the Pokemon before the Mega was introduced. Aerodactyl, Gardevoir, and Lucario being the most prominent.

 

[Johnknight1]

That isn't really fair at all. Courte was only arguing that Lucario replaced Mewtwo in essence.

My post wasn't in response to courte, but rather, to the idea that "Lucario replaced Mewtwo" in general.

I didn't even know who started it; I just found a good post and laid down that quote ASAP.

Also, I'm not one for name calling...

...although you are a pink bucket of puffs.

 

[Morbi]

My post wasn't in response to courte, but rather, to the idea that "Lucario replaced Mewtwo" in general.

I didn't even know who started it; I just found a good post and laid down that quote ASAP.

Also, I'm not one for name calling...

...although you are a pink bucket of puffs.

Why thank you! You are also a beautiful Puff. As I mentioned in my post, I think it is more ideal to call them ignorant. I don't think unintelligent would properly allude to the circumstances that correlate to the misconception. That might just be me. It is really ironic. I hate political correctness; however, it always appears like I am advocating it.

 

[Johnknight1]

God, that line was one of the best things in Colors. Colors was a really good game.

Yeah, that line was hilarious, and that game was randomly great. I like it when games come out of nowhere to be good! Heck, I like it when games are good!

 

[Banjodorf]

At least Mega Gardevoir looks alright.

Yknow honestly I think that's the one I like the least, and yet probably the one I'll use considering Gardevoir is the only planned team member with a Mega. Funny how that works.

It just goes back to that different strokes thing. As long as people acknowledge that they can get why people like certain things, it's cool.

 

[Johnknight1]

Why thank you! You are also a beautiful Puff. As I mentioned in my post, I think it is more ideal to call them ignorant.

Saying "people are dumb" infers that people choose to be dumb by nature, which itself means that it is the person choosing to be dumb, not the person being a 24/7 bucket of dumb dumbs.

Basically, it says people choose to be dumb rather than they are "born dumb."

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I like the way Mega Gardevoir looks.


Question: Which Pokemon do you want to have a Mega form the most?

Personally I want a Mega Luxray more than any other.

 

[Arcanir]

That isn't really fair at all. Courte was only arguing that Lucario replaced Mewtwo in essence. He wasn't literally saying that there was a correlation between Mewtwo's disappearance and Lucario's appearance. They are very different things. The essence is more of a subjective notion. Not to mention it is the premise that MOST people encounter when they view the situation pragmatically. Not everyone knows how Sakurai develops the game. The common consensus isn't that Mewtwo was almost done. It is actually common sense to assert that Mewtwo was replaced. The predominant reason being that Mewtwo was gone and Lucario was playable. This is literally an OBJECTIVE FACT. These two Pokemon are commonly associated. The neutral special didn't really define the two either. They have had very similar roles and archetypes. Relevancy also plays a key role. To call the majority of players ignorant would be ideal, calling the majority of Smash fans "unintelligent" for not knowing the ins and outs of Brawl's development is unnecessary.

Not to mention, Courte's argument is actually valid. There is not rebuttal to such an argument. Why? I will repeat myself, AGAIN. The circumstances are irrelevant. Mewtwo is not playable. Lucario is. So effectively, if any rational being associates the two, their opinion is warranted. The proximate cause is not relevant. The objective fact is the only significant part of the argument.

Look up essence. You will find that essence is very different from something such as the literal being or action.

No, he doesn't have a point, it's the same thing we've been hearing since 2008. There's no 'essence' in Mewtwo's replacement because Lucario is not an intended, or spiritual, or 'in essence' successor, no more then PT or any other Pokémon that made it in ahead of him. Also, there is damn good reason he wasn't replaced, we have data showing he was the farthest along of any other cut character, that is not inarguable. Why would Lucario replace a character he was more then likely made alongside with?

Yes Lucario is playable and Mewtwo is not, but guess what? So is PT (special note since he's also a newcomer), and Jigglypuff, and Pikachu, they're playable because they made it in, Mewtwo was just unlucky, that's it. Really, Lucario is just a scapegoat, people saw some surface similarities and latched onto them when in reality, he's no more guilty of "replacing" Mewtwo then any other character.

It baffles me this is still being pushed. This has been refuted so many times I've lost count, honestly there's no good reason to believe Lucario replaced Mewtwo in whatever meaning of the word, at least not anymore then PT or other characters.

 

[Johnknight1]

Oh mercy mercy me. Ahh these boards ain't what they used to be, no no. Well, maybe they are...

These boards have almost always been crap and you know it.

 

[Morbi]

No, he doesn't have a point, it's the same thing we've been hearing since 2008. There's no 'essence' in Mewtwo's replacement because Lucario is not an intended or spiritual successor, no more then PT or any other Pokémon that made it in ahead of him. Also, there is damn good reason he wasn't replaced, we have data showing he was the farthest along of any other cut character, that is not inarguable. Why would Lucario replace a character he was more then likely made alongside with?

Yes Lucario is playable and Mewtwo is not, but guess what? So is PT (special note since he's also a newcomer), and Jigglypuff, and Pikachu, they're playable because they made it in, Mewtwo was just unlucky, that's it. Really, Lucario is just a scapegoat, people saw some surface similarities and latched onto them when in reality, he's no more guilty of "replacing" Mewtwo then any other character.

It baffles me this is still being pushed. This has been refuted so many times I've lost count, honestly there's no good reason to believe Lucario replaced Mewtwo in whatever meaning of the word, at least not anymore then PT or any other character.

That is the problem. If you don't believe in "essence" there is no rational evidence to convince you otherwise. It has not simply been refuted because you offer a different perspective. The burden of proof is extended to the party asserting a claim. So to assert that Mewtwo was not replaced by Lucario, you would need to prove this. The data is obviously part of the evidence. However, you would need to apply this. Mewtwo isn't in the game. So his completion is irrelevant. If Mewtwo was simply planned, that would entail that Sora Ltd. intended to include him and had progress on him, perhaps 1%. The intent is not enough to prove this notion though. This is what I was alluding to when I mentioned the subjective nature of the argument. Where do we draw the line. The proclamation that both characters would have been in the game isn't enough. Why? Because they aren't. This is OBJECTIVE. Quick elaboration, I meant to say that they are not both in the game. So the plans are not significant based on the premise that the Final Product has no correlation to the plans. We would be arguing that Mewtwo was really in the 64 version of the game if that was the case. It is just silly. So plans are irrelevant.

Now, I would just like to disclaim my portion of this argument. It is merely an attempt at a Devil's Advocate. I do not believe that Mewtwo replaced Lucario. However, I do believe that he replaced his essence. This essence is dictated by the players. Common sense would entail that Lucario did indeed replace Mewtwo (regardless of the arbitrary reasoning). This would support the opposing argument.

This only applies to Lucario because of the "essence" portion of the argument. It wouldn't be logical to throw Jigglypuff or Sonic into the fray. That is not the direction of the debate. We are simply focusing on the correlation between the two in an attempt to justify either perspective.

Saying "people are dumb" infers that people choose to be dumb by nature, which itself means that it is the person choosing to be dumb, not the person being a 24/7 bucket of dumb dumbs.

Basically, it says people choose to be dumb rather than they are "born dumb."

I like to believe that people's unintelligent behavior is innate. Haha.

 

[Johnknight1]

What is the purpose of this thread?
To kill brain cells.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I like the way Mega Gardevoir looks.


Question: Which Pokemon do you want to have a Mega form the most?

Personally I want a Mega Luxray more than any other.

When Mega Gardevoir was revealed as part of

Spoiler

the champion's team

, people on /vp were going HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! for around 5 minutes if I recall.

Spoiler

It's pretty much Gardevior with two chest spikes and really, really large dress.

It must be awkward being a male Gardevior.

Personally, I'd want a Grass/Dragon Mega Sceptile. Problem is though, it'd be 4x weak to ice...

----

 

[Johnknight1]

I like to believe that people's unintelligent behavior is innate. Haha.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Poor Sovereign, he'll always be disappointed.

 

[Gune]

That is the problem. If you don't believe in "essence" there is no rational evidence to convince you otherwise. It has not simply been refuted because you offer a different perspective. The burden of proof is extended to the party asserting a claim. So to assert that Mewtwo was not replaced by Lucario, you would need to prove this. The data is obviously part of the evidence. However, you would need to apply this. Mewtwo isn't in the game. So his completion is irrelevant. If Mewtwo was simply planned, that would entail that Sora Ltd. intended to include him and had progress on him, perhaps 1%. The intent is not enough to prove this notion though. This is what I was alluding to when I mentioned the subjective nature of the argument. Where do we draw the line. The proclamation that both characters would have been in the game isn't enough. Why? Because they aren't. This is OBJECTIVE. Quick elaboration, I meant to say that they are not both in the game. So the plans are not significant based on the premise that the Final Product has no correlation to the plans. We would be arguing that Mewtwo was really in the 64 version of the game if that was the case. It is just silly. So plans are irrelevant.

Now, I would just like to disclaim my portion of this argument. It is merely an attempt at a Devil's Advocate. I do not believe that Mewtwo replaced Lucario. However, I do believe that he replaced his essence. This essence is dictated by the players. Common sense would entail that Lucario did indeed replace Mewtwo (regardless of the arbitrary reasoning). This would support the opposing argument.

This only applies to Lucario because of the "essence" portion of the argument. It wouldn't be logical to throw Jigglypuff or Sonic into the fray. That is not the direction of the debate. We are simply focusing on the correlation between the two in an attempt to justify either perspective.



I like to believe that people's unintelligent behavior is innate. Haha.

They don't even have the same essence mewtwo had a all powerful yet condescending and somewhat cocky essence, while Lucario had a calm and collected martial artist essence , they both show these in there move sets
winning quotes, misc animations, SSE clips(just Lucario) and their voice clips. Their essence's are completely different.

 

[courte]

Morbid I give. I appreciate everything you said in my defense. I hadn't known in the past 5 years this had been the point of a heated debate here on the boards.

Hell I stepped into the discussion stating that it was my opinion and perspective, which as opinions are known to be, possibly wrong. I guess i've been bested. Thoroughly beaten, face downsmashed into the dirt. To me, out of all of the characters in the game, yes Mewtwo and Lucario seemed the most similar. To the smarter people on the boards he didn't. To me at the time, pokefans seemed to be in awe of Lucario who got his own movie like Mewtwo who people also once respected as a top dog. Others didn't. I put out willing to agree to disagree, but clearly i've brought up something that irritates people to the point that it must be smashed into the ground.

On the roster prediction and discussion thread. A place where i'm not allowed to talk about the roster, but everyone can go free willy about mega evolutions... and Diskun.

They don't even have the same essence mewtwo had a all powerful yet condescending and somewhat cocky essence, while Lucario had a calm and collected martial artist essence , they both show these in there move sets
winning quotes, misc animations, SSE clips(just Lucario) and their voice clips. Their essence's are completely different.

And you know damn well you just described attitude/personality.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I was only kidding. They already gave my favorite Pokemon (Gengar) an ugly Mega. They gave one of my other favorites an ugly Mega (Gyarados). They already desecrated my memories by giving Kanto Starters and Mewtwo some pretty ugly Megas. I honestly don't care anymore. Some Megas turn out great and make me like Pokemon I have never even liked. Ampharos and Mawille being two big ones.

I'm agreeing with you on Gengar. The sucky part is the 4x weakness to Ghost :/

...did I seriously just read Mewtwo being replaced by Lucario? Oh my word when do these nincompoops get this?

 

[Gune]

And you know damn well you just described attitude/personality.

Essence: The intrinsic nature or indispensable quality of something, Something abstract that determines its charecter.

What determines a character is its personality that's what I put to show there completly different essences, looks don't determine a character so I didn't bother listing any of that. I know its your opinion and I respect that Its just that I'm a bit over sensitive about replacement topic so If your done with it I'm done with it deal?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

...someone should make this their signature!!!

Feel free to. I see you don't have a signature yet.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I like the way Mega Gardevoir looks.


Question: Which Pokemon do you want to have a Mega form the most?

Personally I want a Mega Luxray more than any other.

Mega Alakazam. Maybe it's mega moustache will become an extra set of spoon holding hands.

On topic: No new screenshot yet?

 

[Arcadenik]

On topic: No new screenshot yet?

No new pic of the day yet? That most likely means we are getting a character reveal later today.

 

[Espio264]

No new pic of the day yet? That most likely means we are getting a character reveal later today.

There's a 3DS picture in the Miiverse thread, but the site's not been updated. I even tried the Japanese site. Nothing but Sonic kicking Bowser in the teeth. Maybe they're just slow updating the site? Maybe he made a retraction? Maybe we are getting a character? Maybe we're getting too excited over nothing?

I dreamt of Mewtwo last night.

 

[YoshiandToad]

No new pic of the day yet? That most likely means we are getting a character reveal later today.

In before he just forgot to upload one to the main site and everyone's hype is for naught.

I dreamt of Mewtwo last night.

Was it as beautiful a thing as the legends say?

 

[Espio264]

In before he just forgot to upload one and everyone's hype is for naught.

It's there now. The site has a 3DS banner on the Sonic and Bowser picture, but when you click on it to go to Miiverse, it shows the right one with Pit and Samus.

 

[YoshiandToad]

FALSE ALARM EVERYONE.

Sorry about that.

Still predicting Friday personally.

 

[Gene]

For a second I thought Samus was firing an ice missile and went to double check on the Miiverse site. Dammit Sakuraiiiii!

 

[MargnetMan23]

For a second I thought Samus was firing an ice missile and went to double check on the Miiverse site. Dammit Sakuraiiiii!

I know Samus has an ice beam but Ice Missiles? XD

 

[Gene]

I know Samus has an ice beam but Ice Missiles? XD

She has Ice Missiles in Fusion and Prime 3. Either way if Samus got an ice move it would make her a better character in smash.

 

[Arcadenik]

Ice Beam and Ice Missiles are two different things but they function similarly.

Fusion Suit Samus cannot have Ice Beam since she became allergic to cold temperates ever since her DNA got spliced with Metroid DNA. That's why Fusion Suit Samus can have Ice Missiles.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

In all seriousness, I was about to suggest a topic but then I realized it wouldn't "fit" the thread's main point. However, when I thought about it harder, all I could think was how this place was only a deathtrap for flamewars.

So, may I ask, what is thread's true purpose?

It's supposed to be a thread for roster related topics, but obviously, people don't seem to get that message, and just troll around.

 

[Banjodorf]

I like the way Mega Gardevoir looks.


Question: Which Pokemon do you want to have a Mega form the most?

Personally I want a Mega Luxray more than any other.

That's an easy one. Houndoom, because obviously, and I want my baby to join the big leagues again, and Milotic, Volcarona and Yanmega. And all the starters.

Yep.

 

[Gene]

It's supposed to be a thread for roster related topics, but obviously, people don't seem to get that message, and just troll around.

I still can"t get the roster maker working on my MacBook. My buyer's remorse.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I still can"t get the roster maker working on my MacBook. My buyer's remorse.

You can always resort to image editors if you want to make a roster image.