Data RosaLuma AT thread

[DisidisiD]

Hey guys,
This thread will be here to accomplish the following:
1)create a library of RosaLuma's ATs
2)promote the discovery, creation, and improvement of ATs

If you guys can provide videos/ instructions for the ATs, that would be great.
These are the ATs that Rosalina and Luma have now:

LUNAR LANDING
lunar landing (http://smashboards.com/guides/lunar...ding-a-rosalina-advanced-technique-video.142/)

airdodge lunar landing (http://smashboards.com/threads/rosalina-at-airdodge-cancel-applications.384580/#post-18282024)

roll boosted lunar landing (http://smashboards.com/threads/roll-boosted-luma-lunar-landing.392920/)




BOOST GRABS
their boost grab (which is special because luma still does the dash attack)

pivot boost grab (luma dash attacks in foward direction and Rosalina pivot grabs backwards)

LUMA MOVEMENT AND MANIPULATION OPTIONS
neutral b=forward
jab=forward
Dtilt=upwards very slightly
Dash attack=forward
launch star=catapults luma(http://smashboards.com/threads/up-b-shenanigans.395816/)
Dair=move down wards in air
Uair=move up
Ftilt=change direction


SPECIAL LUMA PROPERTIES
Luma Attack Priority (LAP)
http://smashboards.com/threads/luma-attack-priority-and-that-other-tech-i-was-talking-about.400923/




COMBOS
Shanoa
http://smashboards.com/threads/shanoa-combo-example-videos-inside.397754/#post-18909713




INIFINTES
Her infinite against sheik and Capt. Falcon (http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2iyf35/its_only_been_a_month_and_theyve_already_found_a/)




MISCELLANEOUS
CRARG (http://smashboards.com/threads/at-cancelled-reverse-aerial-rush-grab-crarg.375527/)

luma jab desync (http://smashboards.com/threads/the-luma-spin-and-you-a-quick-guide.378000/)

that-one-thing-where-if-Rosalina-is-leaving-hitstun-and-wants-to-do-an-attack-with-luma-but-also-be-airdodging-she-can-press-a-direction-and-grab-to-do-so(I don't know if there is a name so that's what I'm naming it for now. If you guys know the name, please tell me, else it's going to be named the TOTWIRILHAWTDAAWLBABA or something like that

Luma Teeter Boost
http://smashboards.com/threads/luma-teeter-boost.396679/

Intriguing launch star stuffs
http://smashboards.com/threads/up-b-shenanigans.395816/



EDIT: Let's have a moment of silence for the departed RosaLuma AT Thread? thread. It served its purpose well while it could.

UPDATE: Added combos section with Shanoa Combo to start
UPDATE: Added luma movement/manipulation options section

 

[JaggedToaster]

Wow this is great! I'll be sure to post anything I find.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

Probably add Shanoa combo. It looks promising with many potential usages.

 

[DisidisiD]

Probably add Shanoa combo. It looks promising with many potential usages.

Added it. Can anyone else think of combos we have that I can add links to?
Also, could this thread be stickied by a mod? Thanks guys

 

[DisidisiD]

Is anyone willing to help me test out the luma jab desync? I want to test it against other characters to see what moves will stop it and which characters especially have trouble against it (ex: luigi has very few moves that can stop it). If my tests are correct, it can trap characters so that they can be attacked by charged smashes. Sometimes, they will even be knocked back into the luma spin and they can be attacked again. I've racked up atleast 62 percent before using this method (but that is probably a rare occurrence). I want to I see which characters this is a good strategy against.

I wanted to test this over the weekend, when I have more time. Please get back to me if you would like to help.

 

[ChikoLad]

When Luma is attached to you, space him away from you with some jabs. Jump, and then start spamming U-air immediately while backing away from him. This causes Luma to gradually get distanced away from you both vertically and horizontally, but because he's still considered linked to you (i.e. you didn't use Luma Shot), he moves fluidly with you.

This technique is amazing for extending the coverage of your aerials, or for setting up an elaborate but hard to predict formation between the two. It's particularly useful for U-air juggling, your juggling capabilities are pretty much unmatched when you master this.

I don't know if it's well known or if it even has a name, but it wasn't there in the OP so I thought I'd share it.

 

[Kurobon]

https://youtu.be/W9W6vVce8os

First time posting. Long time lurker. Love SSB4!

As stated in the video, I have searched and not found an official name for this AT, the "jab desync / spin desync." I accidentally found about this online a while ago and then saw Dabuz doing it in some vids. I didn't see any video explaining this, so I uploaded one. Feel free to tell me the official name of this AT.

Well, my post was another thread but was posted here. Feel free to help me out thanks

 

[DisidisiD]

This is the luma jab desync tech. You can find more information in the link provided in the initial post, in the misc section.

 

[PuzzlerBoy]

May have found a jab cancel infiniteish thing that works for some time on roy..? Jab 1/2, crouch and wait a wee bit, jab 1, crouch, repeat. It seemed to work to like 112% or something but I'm bad at jab canceling for long periods of time lol, plus it seems that once he doesn't have floor below him that he very slowly starts losing vertical height in regards to luma

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

An edgeguard concept I came up with yesterday.
Its not quite optimized yet but a clever way to quickly get desynched luma on the edge.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVTdoPCcCOo

 

[DisidisiD]

An edgeguard concept I came up with yesterday.
Its not quite optimized yet but a clever way to quickly get desynched luma on the edge.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVTdoPCcCOo

So start off stage and up b onto the stage to lower the time spent falling then have luma jab forward into spin jab desync and then do whatever to get them off stage. So this could be done after edge guarding a bit to send them away before setting up a spin jab there. Cool.

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

Yah if you hit them with a fair or a dair off stage its a pretty optimal edgeguard setup.
Similarly with an f-smash or downmash on stage you should have enough time to run off and set this up. The run off first makes your opponent think they're threatened as well so they'll typically delay they're edge return which should give you time to setup desynch edgeguard.

Particularly useful in matchups where you can't edgeguard them with the luma shot into spin due to having a recovery with hitboxes. If your desynch Rosa can make punishes there isn't really a good option at all for an opponent on ledge with spinning desynch luma above them.

 

[Krazy4Krash]

The run off first makes your opponent think they're threatened as well so they'll typically delay they're edge return which should give you time to setup desynch edgeguard.

I've typically just done Launch Star straight up in place on-stage next to the ledge to get Luma spinning in place there. However, the quoted reason is why I think your method is better. It's more dangerous to pull off, I believe, but very likely worth it if you don't flub her recovery, which you shouldn't after little practice.

 

[Smasher89]

Thats generally seems like a decent position (even though it might be risky) to send luma there, side b, dtilt towards the stage covers alot and atleast dtilt sets up for combos or even kills at decently high % (dtilt upsmash).
The dabuzedgeguard is faster to set up though even though that jab to upsmash would deal a ton of damage.

I think it seems way to telegraphed though and the opponent should have more then enough time to adjust their response.

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRxb6LoPWss

You probably know that Rosalina and Luma's RAR Aerials are different from her regular aerials because luma starts his aerials from behind you rather than from in-front of you.

I found out today that you could get to that position where Luma has these reverse position aerials in a different manner. All you have to do is Lunar Landing a Bair and if you turn around it Luma will position itself into the reverse position.

The theory behind it is that typically Luma aerials always move luma back to the same position. Luma just moves back to that position in front of you. But because you canceled Rosa's aerial into the ground you have enough time to turn around so the position Luma thought was in front of you becomes a position behind you. If you were to wait Luma would again realize that its in the wrong position and again attempt to move in front of you.

I think the implications of these technique are pretty groundbreaking, definitely the most interesting/important thing I've ever found about this character.

 

[DisidisiD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRxb6LoPWss

You probably know that Rosalina and Luma's RAR Aerials are different from her regular aerials because luma starts his aerials from behind you rather than from in-front of you.

I found out today that you could get to that position where Luma has these reverse position aerials in a different manner. All you have to do is Lunar Landing a Bair and if you turn around it Luma will position itself into the reverse position.

The theory behind it is that typically Luma aerials always move luma back to the same position. Luma just moves back to that position in front of you. But because you canceled Rosa's aerial into the ground you have enough time to turn around so the position Luma thought was in front of you becomes a position behind you. If you were to wait Luma would again realize that its in the wrong position and again attempt to move in front of you.

I think the implications of these technique are pretty groundbreaking, definitely the most interesting/important thing I've ever found about this character.

That's pretty cool. But I wonder... if you did a second LL Bair after that, would luma extend further?

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

Yeah definitely. You have enough time to get any of the LL Aerials out and they will operate with Luma in the Reverse Position. Meaning you can an extended LL Bair. The Reverse LL Nair I showed which has this amazing hitbox, you can get an LL Up air that comes from behind you. A very bizzare LL Fair that actually makes a J shape starting from behind Rosa and going underneath her is another one.

Go try it out it definitely opens up a ton of new possibilities and I'm sure my text descriptions aren't great.

 

[Bill cipher3]

When Luma is attached to you, space him away from you with some jabs. Jump, and then start spamming U-air immediately while backing away from him. This causes Luma to gradually get distanced away from you both vertically and horizontally, but because he's still considered linked to you (i.e. you didn't use Luma Shot), he moves fluidly with you.

This technique is amazing for extending the coverage of your aerials, or for setting up an elaborate but hard to predict formation between the two. It's particularly useful for U-air juggling, your juggling capabilities are pretty much unmatched when you master this.

I don't know if it's well known or if it even has a name, but it wasn't there in the OP so I thought I'd share it.

This thing is nice because you can do it and then turn around and bair so luma will go very far.
And also I found a new tech it isn't much of a tech .but it's still a tech

Edit. I don't have a name for it too

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRxb6LoPWss

You probably know that Rosalina and Luma's RAR Aerials are different from her regular aerials because luma starts his aerials from behind you rather than from in-front of you.

I found out today that you could get to that position where Luma has these reverse position aerials in a different manner. All you have to do is Lunar Landing a Bair and if you turn around it Luma will position itself into the reverse position.

The theory behind it is that typically Luma aerials always move luma back to the same position. Luma just moves back to that position in front of you. But because you canceled Rosa's aerial into the ground you have enough time to turn around so the position Luma thought was in front of you becomes a position behind you. If you were to wait Luma would again realize that its in the wrong position and again attempt to move in front of you.

I think the implications of these technique are pretty groundbreaking, definitely the most interesting/important thing I've ever found about this character.

Hmm I don't think I've ever done this, but I will practice that this week & try to implement it.

 

[ChikoLad]

It will be situational, but doing this with Rosalina will trigger Lunar Landing meaning it could be useful to keep it in mind against Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man.

 

[ChikoLad]

This thread hasn't seen activity in a while but I found this and thought I'd share. Found it on D1's Tumblr. It's a Perfect Pivot U-Tilt punish with Rosalina.

 

[Maraphy]

I'm a little slow on this, but how about that tech Dabuz was using in G3 grand finals? Where luma constantly spins. I think I've seen it before and it has something to do with getting hit, but I don't know how to execute it and keep it going like that while having Rosalina act

 

[Koiba]

I'm a little slow on this, but how about that tech Dabuz was using in G3 grand finals? Where luma constantly spins. I think I've seen it before and it has something to do with getting hit, but I don't know how to execute it and keep it going like that while having Rosalina act

http://smashboards.com/threads/luma-attack-priority-and-that-other-tech-i-was-talking-about.400923/

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-luma-spin-and-you-a-quick-guide.378000/

Hope this helped~

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

I posted a while back (on this page) about a special set of moves that can only be accessed by performing a whiffed LL bair, turning around and then waiting a certain period of time. These moves were cool and unique but not really something I could incorporate into my game. When do you get the chance to LL bair and then turnaround?

But then I realized that in neutral there were some real benefits to whiffing LL Bair as much as you possibly can.
I have coined Whiffing a LL Bair (typically while facing away from your opponent "Luma Shuffling"
Why Luma Shuffling? Hopefully it will be clear by the end of this post!

A common problem you may have as a Rosalina player in the neutral game is that you can avoid attacks with Rosa but Luma is a bit harder to protect. Hitboxes that hit Luma extend their duration and can hit you unexpectedly. Not to mention that when Luma is in hitstun it can mess up your punish timing/spacing. Plus sometimes your opponent can just pressure your shield and kill Luma in the process.1 dead Luma can cost you a whole match.

By Luma Shuffling (whiffing a Luma Bair on landing facing towards your opponent) you tuck Luma safely behind you. You can approach and space in neutral without worrying about Luma getting hit.

Upon reading that you may be thinking "Wait what, Luma is the source of my power Luma needs to protect me, why would I want to put Luma away?" And the answer to that is when you put you Luma away, Luma has to come back. Luma's return after the whiffed LL bair is the heart of Luma Shuffling. There are two windows (periods of time) where different things will happen if you press a button during your Luma Shuffle (LL Bair recovery).

The first window of time is right when you whiff the bair. During this window Luma is completely inactive. Only Rosalina's moves come out during this time period as Luma is still in recovery from performing its back aerial.

The second window of time is quite unique. Luma appears to be inactive behind you BUT if you input a move both Rosa and Luma perform the move. ALSO Luma who appears to be chilling behind you in cooldown, gets warped back right in front of Rosa. So Both rosa and luma attack and Luma immediately switches position from behind Rosa to in front of Rosa. This "warp", this sudden switch of position as a result of your input IS the Luma Shuffle at work.

You can whiff a d-tilt with Rosa and then immediately d-tilt again but now with BOTH Rosa and Luma, even though it appeared that Luma was behind you and not in a position to attack. The second d-tilt will have more range than the first because Luma is in there now.

You can make it ambiguous who you are attacking with by Shuffling Luma. Now its unclear who you are attacking with and thus It is unclear how much range your attacks have. Your footsies game now has a new layer of complexity and the mixup potential is unprecedented.

Also as mentioned in my August Post in this thread if you Luma Shuffle and then turnaround, now all of your aerials have way more horizontal range. You can Luma shuffle, turn around and then hit your opponent with a Surprise Bair that has double the range, or a surprise Dair that hits behind you rather than in front.

And lastly Shuffling Luma has potential for amazing Baits. Particularly if you can bait your opponent to grab you you can really get the salt flowing from your. Perform a Luma shuffle then go right up to your opponent and hit their shield with something dumb like an f-tilt. If they grab you in response you can mash up-tilt and Luma will warp back to where you are and punish their grab with a sweet spot uptilt.

I would like to make a video soon about the uses and applications of this technique, talking about Rosa AT is always difficult but I hope I was clear as to how to perform and leverage this tech.

~Khakis

 

[Zonderion]

I posted a while back (on this page) about a special set of moves that can only be accessed by performing a whiffed LL bair, turning around and then waiting a certain period of time. These moves were cool and unique but not really something I could incorporate into my game. When do you get the chance to LL bair and then turnaround?

But then I realized that in neutral there were some real benefits to whiffing LL Bair as much as you possibly can.
I have coined Whiffing a LL Bair (typically while facing away from your opponent "Luma Shuffling"
Why Luma Shuffling? Hopefully it will be clear by the end of this post!

A common problem you may have as a Rosalina player in the neutral game is that you can avoid attacks with Rosa but Luma is a bit harder to protect. Hitboxes that hit Luma extend their duration and can hit you unexpectedly. Not to mention that when Luma is in hitstun it can mess up your punish timing/spacing. Plus sometimes your opponent can just pressure your shield and kill Luma in the process.1 dead Luma can cost you a whole match.

By Luma Shuffling (whiffing a Luma Bair on landing facing towards your opponent) you tuck Luma safely behind you. You can approach and space in neutral without worrying about Luma getting hit.

Upon reading that you may be thinking "Wait what, Luma is the source of my power Luma needs to protect me, why would I want to put Luma away?" And the answer to that is when you put you Luma away, Luma has to come back. Luma's return after the whiffed LL bair is the heart of Luma Shuffling. There are two windows (periods of time) where different things will happen if you press a button during your Luma Shuffle (LL Bair recovery).

The first window of time is right when you whiff the bair. During this window Luma is completely inactive. Only Rosalina's moves come out during this time period as Luma is still in recovery from performing its back aerial.

The second window of time is quite unique. Luma appears to be inactive behind you BUT if you input a move both Rosa and Luma perform the move. ALSO Luma who appears to be chilling behind you in cooldown, gets warped back right in front of Rosa. So Both rosa and luma attack and Luma immediately switches position from behind Rosa to in front of Rosa. This "warp", this sudden switch of position as a result of your input IS the Luma Shuffle at work.

You can whiff a d-tilt with Rosa and then immediately d-tilt again but now with BOTH Rosa and Luma, even though it appeared that Luma was behind you and not in a position to attack. The second d-tilt will have more range than the first because Luma is in there now.

You can make it ambiguous who you are attacking with by Shuffling Luma. Now its unclear who you are attacking with and thus It is unclear how much range your attacks have. Your footsies game now has a new layer of complexity and the mixup potential is unprecedented.

Also as mentioned in my August Post in this thread if you Luma Shuffle and then turnaround, now all of your aerials have way more horizontal range. You can Luma shuffle, turn around and then hit your opponent with a Surprise Bair that has double the range, or a surprise Dair that hits behind you rather than in front.

And lastly Shuffling Luma has potential for amazing Baits. Particularly if you can bait your opponent to grab you you can really get the salt flowing from your. Perform a Luma shuffle then go right up to your opponent and hit their shield with something dumb like an f-tilt. If they grab you in response you can mash up-tilt and Luma will warp back to where you are and punish their grab with a sweet spot uptilt.

I would like to make a video soon about the uses and applications of this technique, talking about Rosa AT is always difficult but I hope I was clear as to how to perform and leverage this tech.

~Khakis

I think Luma Shuffling isnthe perfect name for this. I don't have time to try this out, but a video showcasing this would be incredible. The applications sound almost limitless.

You mention only tilts that Warp Luma back in front, but does Luma Warp back with other moves? Smashes, aerials?

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

With Every Move during this period of time Luma will warp from behind you to back in front of you yes. I think the visual cue to look for is the moment after you whiff a LL bair where Luma starts traveling forward (the beginning of Luma's return to Rosa)

With F-smash if you time it properly, you can actually cause a delay where Rosa will F-smash first and then Luma will F-smash slightly afterwards. Also I've been seeing that if you shuffle then use a movement option (Roll or Perfect Pivot) you can put Luma in tricky places. Everything is so situational its hard to know what will be useful or not useful.

I would like to make a quick video and am working on conning someone into helping me make it (I have no equipment or expertise) as we speak.

 

[Smasher89]

The melee Ice climber board has discussed something earlier similar to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27kEITgsm0 at 1.56.

Maybe intentional clashing can be used for better lumapressure!

 

[Royug]

Is anyone using RAR N-air sometimes ? I found this video showing how it can be used as a combo after a D-throw. I was already using RAR B-air a lot since it's an amazing move with so much range because how Luma moves further away from Rosa. But then I found out Luma does the same thing with RAR N-air. That looks pretty useful and could prove to be a really good move. If you RAR short hop N-air fast fall at an opponent, the second hit of Luma's attack will hit him and send him in front of Rosa. At mid percent, you can then quickly follow with an U-smash or something else. It's a bit like doing a neutral Lunar Landing (with Rosa facing away) but you can space it more ! I believe it's also kind of safe since at first there's Rosa's N-air hitbox from behind her (if your opponent decides to dash at her when she jumps) then Luma's second hitbox and then you land, but N-air as only 11 frames of landing lag so your opponent won't have enough time to drop their shield, dash and attack/grab (and they can't simply OoS grab/U-smash if you space the attack correctly).

This is hard to do on short characters though, Luma can miss them even if you fast fall. You can wait a little bit after the short hop to do the N-air, but then Luma's attack will have less range and your opponent will have more time to attack you before the move.

I still haven't tried that in tournament or online, but it looks promising.

 

[Zonderion]

Is anyone using RAR N-air sometimes ? I found this video showing how it can be used as a combo after a D-throw. I was already using RAR B-air a lot since it's an amazing move with so much range because how Luma moves further away from Rosa. But then I found out Luma does the same thing with RAR N-air. That looks pretty useful and could prove to be a really good move. If you RAR short hop N-air fast fall at an opponent, the second hit of Luma's attack will hit him and send him in front of Rosa. At mid percent, you can then quickly follow with an U-smash or something else. It's a bit like doing a neutral Lunar Landing (with Rosa facing away) but you can space it more ! I believe it's also kind of safe since at first there's Rosa's N-air hitbox from behind her (if your opponent decides to dash at her when she jumps) then Luma's second hitbox and then you land, but N-air as only 11 frames of landing lag so your opponent won't have enough time to drop their shield, dash and attack/grab (and they can't simply OoS grab/U-smash if you space the attack correctly).

This is hard to do on short characters though, Luma can miss them even if you fast fall. You can wait a little bit after the short hop to do the N-air, but then Luma's attack will have less range and your opponent will have more time to attack you before the move.

I still haven't tried that in tournament or online, but it looks promising.

This is amazing. Thanks for sharing. I'm gonna try it out.

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

I'm definitely going to try this out! I was just thinking about how d-throw Fair is so unreliable.

I think there is room for improvement here with this tech too. Particularly, performing the RAR aerial quickly to get Luma in the reverse position (further away) so the Rosa nair into Luma nair would combo at higher percents.

 

[Royug]

RAR N-air can work out of D-throw, but only at very lower percent, and not against all characters (easier with heavy char/fast fallers, harder with light or floaty char).

But RAR N-air can also work anytime just as a standard attack or to start a combo. Just try it : run towards your opponent and SH-RAR Nair-FF. If it hits, great, now quickly follow with something else. If the person shields, well you're still kinda safe.

Also, yes you can combo Rosa's N-air with the second hit of Luma's N-air (like shown in the video) if you do it close enough from your opponent. But then he can simply shield both hits and OoS grab or U-smash you directly after. What you really wanna do is space the attack so only Luma's N-air hits while you're at a more safe distance.

 

[Smasher89]

Interesting, you should test that against airdodges, if it catches those it could be a standard mixup to the upair, otherwise I'm not sure how viable it would be concidering theres prob more guarantied stuff,


That said, I really need to learn the throw% and what could be used as a bit more greedy options then then the easiest sollution thats often upthrow upair or fthrow dashattack/luma nair

Tested in trainingmode against D3, seems the rar nair after dthrow sets up nicely for grabs, allowing you to do it twice on d3 from low %, to then use upthrow double upair for a 69% combo.

That said, it can prob be airdodged or DI'd though.

 

[Royug]

So yeah, I've tested the D-throw RAR N-air with a second player playing Bowser and it doesn't catch the airdodge. If the player airdodges as soon as he can, he will dodge both hits of the N-air. You can still hit him after that, with the late hitbox of Rosa's N-air if you land at the right position beside him, but it's kind of hard and really not rewarding at all. So I think I'll stick with U-throw U-X or F-throw/B-throw F-air (which can be true with certain characters, and can set-up for an U-tilt-Uair)

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

I think D-throw Perfect Pivot Nair would probably be a little faster than doing the RAR after a d-throw follow-up.

RAR nair in general is amazing though. On DK and Bowser you can run up RAR nair and combo
Luma Nair 1 -> Rosa weak hit -> Luma Nair 2 -> Upsmash

At very specific low percents like 8-12% you can perform a RAR nair and hit with Luma Nair1 into a knockdown and get a reset with Rosa Nair. From there you can combo anything

And in general Luma Nair2 is amazing and leads to great follow-ups at all percents so if you can use tricks to get the nair out with weird spacing it will net you a ton of damage (or a kill)

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

I was exploring Rosa's D-tilt and wanna give a thorough rundown of getting Luma to d-tilt the opposite way of Rosalina.

As you may know there's a neat little trick where you can have Rosalina d-tilt in the direction she is facing while also having luma d-tilt in the opposite direction.
You perform this by moving the stick to the down-back corner and pressing attack. While it sounds simple its pretty difficult to get this corner input going, I get a lot of mistake jabs and regular d-tilts.

There is another way however to consistently get the Rosa and Luma d-tilt to attack in opposite directions. Sadly like the corner input thingy it has its restrictions.
You can always get Luma and Rosa to attack opposite ways if you
1. Perfect Pivot the opposite way that you are facing.
2. Press D-tilt.

I haven't looked into this framewise but there is a pretty generous window of time during the perfect pivot where performing d-tilt will always get luma to attack in the opposite direction of Rosalina. Getting the surprise Luma d-tilt will pretty much always lead to a knockdown or at earlier percents a good grab opportunity.

The corner input and perfect pivot method are both useful for tricking Luma to be facing the opposite direction when you d-tilt and work well when Luma is at "resting position" tethered there right in front of you.

--------------------------

However Luma isn't always there. As a Rosa main you may spend a lot of time with Luma getting sent out far away and then coming back rushing to your aid. These are also times where you can get the d-tilts going in the opposite directions.

This application is slightly different as now Luma isn't right there besides you attacking behind you. Now Luma is actually in front of you coming back towards you in a straight line. So getting a Luma d-tilt in this situation might net you a d-tilt to d-tilt combo. Or at higher percents the luma d-tilt will hit your opponent past Rosa where you can follow up with a grab or another attack.

So then the question is how do you get Luma to return to you so you can get this reverse d-tilt?

Well the first way is obvious, simply shoot luma, call luma back and then d-tilt while Luma is returning. While luma is rushing back to your side d-tilt will hit the opposite direction. While useful this is in no way sneaky, having to press Neutral B to call Luma back makes the d-tilt pretty telegraphed.

So then how do you get Luma to return to Rosa (so you can get the reverse hitting d-tilt), without firing Luma away or having to call Luma back with Neutral B? The answer is to try and get Luma far away from you, more specifically outside of your radius.

Quick Aside.

Have you ever pressed Neutral B (while Luma is tethered to you) expecting a Luma shot but actually getting a useless wand wave instead? Sometimes Luma is too far away for the Luma shot to come out (even though you are tethered) and the game reacts to this by giving you a wand wave... a wand wave that effectively does nothing. Luma was going to come back anyway (Luma is tethered) and now you wasted frames flicking your wrist rather than firing Luma out for an attack.

These instances when Luma is
1. Tethered to you
2. Too far away from Rosa for Neutral B Luma shot to come out

are the instances where Luma will be informed by the game that she needs to return to Mama Rosalina. When these two conditions are fulfilled I would say Luma is "out of your radius". And that means Luma has to turn around and move towards you, so now Luma's d-tilt will be hitting in the opposite direction of you.

Here are some setups where you can always get Luma "out of your radius" and then follow up with a reverse d-tilt.
1. Short Hop RAR Bair then turnaround d-tilt. The RAR Bair extends Luma way out far away, thus getting Luma out of your radius and forcing her to turn around return to you. (Fun fact if you RAR Bair then turnaround Luma will start returning to you in crouch position. I have no idea why)
2. Throw out some Jabs then d-tilt. Jabbing enough can get Luma out of your radius and and force the turnaround for Luma's d-tilt as Luma comes to return to you.

The setup potential is super real but as with a lot of Rosalina tech its not about trying to trap your opponent in one specfiic way. Its more about understanding the positions (yours, your opponents and Lumas) at a high level and seeing what you can do from there.

I hope this shed some light on the situations where you can expect a d-tilt to go the opposite way and the reasoning behind these situations.

~Khakis

 

[Royug]

RAR N-air can work out of D-throw, but only at very lower percent, and not against all characters (easier with heavy char/fast fallers, harder with light or floaty char).

But RAR N-air can also work anytime just as a standard attack or to start a combo. Just try it : run towards your opponent and SH-RAR Nair-FF. If it hits, great, now quickly follow with something else. If the person shields, well you're still kinda safe.

Also, yes you can combo Rosa's N-air with the second hit of Luma's N-air (like shown in the video) if you do it close enough from your opponent. But then he can simply shield both hits and OoS grab or U-smash you directly after. What you really wanna do is space the attack so only Luma's N-air hits while you're at a more safe distance.

So I was doubtful this tech could really be useful, because it's hard to hit your opponent with it, the spacing as to be just right, and because it's even harder against short characters... But it seems @Dabuz started using it recently ? Or a different version of it at least :

https://youtu.be/X6me2bXZdIk?t=1m33s

At 1:33, instead of doing a RAR N-air, he does a RAR B-air before to position Luma behind him, THEN does a N-air. And instead of using N-air as soon as he jumps, he waits until he's at the peak of his SH to do it and fast falls. He gets landing lag because of that but it doesn't seem to matter since the second hit of Luma's N-air protects him and then he can quickly grab.

At 3:54, he does a straight RAR SH N-air but again, instead of doing the N-air directly after he jumps, he waits a little bit, and even if Luma does not hit he still gets the grab really quickly right after. The thing is, I don't understand why he didn't do a short hop normal N-air instead, the result would have been pretty much the same in this case.

 

[Smasher89]

Actually, hitting shield with reverse nair is strictly better, both because you can use it as an option select to get grabs/dashgrabs, but also that luma covers you better.

sh airdodge nair is nice, and atleast the japanese rosa that played a bayonetta in a tournament recently does it, and it is good for getting the rar nair timing down easier, maybe less open during it too.

 

[MezzoMe]

Guess this could be put there, but it's not really an AT, it's just a normal technique