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Meta Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Mario

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Mario


Welcome to the Rosalina vs. Mario match-up analysis thread. This thread will be used to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Mario. For all the rules on the round 2 match-up discussions, please refer to the directory thread.

Last Updated: 1/17/2016
Special Moves Allowed| | :4mario:
Default only | :rosalina: | +1
Default + Custom | :rosalina: | +1
Default only
Kaishin: ±0
LightningLuxray: +1
Marie <3: +1
mario123007: +1
MarioMeteor: +1
R e d X: +1
Super FOG: +2
tconan: +1
Underhill: +1

Default + Custom
Kaishin: +1
Marie <3: +1
MarioMeteor: ±0
tconan: +1
Underhill: ±0
 

mario123007

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I'm gonna start with default:
:4mario:Mario
Pros:

My dear main, Mario. Has a significant buff compare to Brawl, even though some of his attacks like up tilt, forward tilt have been nerfed, most of his Smash attacks are faster and stronger now.
  • Mario has probably on of the most easiest combo technique grab>down throw>up tilt...> Up air> Up B. Can easily give Rosalina 55+% damage at the start of the game.
  • Although his attack range isn't bigger than Rosalina, but fast and linkable.
  • Fireball is great for spacing and get rid of Luma. if Rosalina GP, it's Mario chance to punish her.
  • Powerful backthrow than Rosalina
Cons:
  • Poorer recovery than Rosalina, can be easily edgeguard.
  • Hard to approach to Rosalina if Luma is around.
  • Fireballs can't deal with Rosalina GP.
:rosalina:Rosalina & Luma
Pros
Over the past few months Rosalina has been nerfed quite dramatic, however, she is still a tough character to beat.
  • Luma is good for baiting and giving your opponent pressure.
  • Better edgeguard than Mario.
  • With Luma, uptilt combo is very good for early KOs.
  • Most attacks have large hitboxes.
  • Luma's attacks have impressive launch power.
  • GP can deflect Mario's fireballs.
Cons
  • Floaty, can easily KOed early.
  • Most attacks have a bit cooldown. Can easily be punished by the lag of her attacks.
  • Without Luma, Rosalina will become a weak target. Up tilt will have less range, and weaker Smash attacks.
Overall, I think Rosalina have +1 slightly advantage, but if Rosalina face a Mario who can do a great air game, Rosalina might have higher chance of losing.
 

Nadeko Sengoku

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I'm gonna start with default:
:4mario:Mario
Pros:

My dear main, Mario. Has a significant buff compare to Brawl, even though some of his attacks like up tilt, forward tilt have been nerfed, most of his Smash attacks are faster and stronger now.
  • Mario has probably on of the most easiest combo technique grab>down throw>up tilt...> Up air> Up B. Can easily give Rosalina 55+% damage at the start of the game.
  • Although his attack range isn't bigger than Rosalina, but fast and linkable.
  • Fireball is great for spacing and get rid of Luma. if Rosalina GP, it's Mario chance to punish her.
  • Powerful backthrow than Rosalina
Cons:
  • Poorer recovery than Rosalina, can be easily edgeguard.
  • Hard to approach to Rosalina if Luma is around.
  • Fireballs can't deal with Rosalina GP.
:rosalina:Rosalina & Luma
Pros
Over the past few months Rosalina has been nerfed quite dramatic, however, she is still a tough character to beat.
  • Luma is good for baiting and giving your opponent pressure.
  • Better edgeguard than Mario.
  • With Luma, uptilt combo is very good for early KOs.
  • Most attacks have large hitboxes.
  • Luma's attacks have impressive launch power.
  • GP can deflect Mario's fireballs.
Cons
  • Floaty, can easily KOed early.
  • Most attacks have a bit cooldown. Can easily be punished by the lag of her attacks.
  • Without Luma, Rosalina will become a weak target. Up tilt will have less range, and weaker Smash attacks.
Overall, I think Rosalina have +1 slightly advantage, but if Rosalina face a Mario who can do a great air game, Rosalina might have higher chance of losing.
Good post! I just wanted to mention that Rosalina and Luma can break fireballs with jabs instead of having to use gravitational pull, this allows for Rosalina to act quckly if Mario tries to approach after a fireball.
 

mario123007

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Good post! I just wanted to mention that Rosalina and Luma can break fireballs with jabs instead of having to use gravitational pull, this allows for Rosalina to act quckly if Mario tries to approach after a fireball.
Thanks :)
Oh right... I totally forgot that, but that needs a good timing as well.
I found Mario hard to get close to Rosalina when I use Mario, and of course, Mario'd poor recovery is also his main weakpoint .
 
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MarioMeteor

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I find that Mario has one of the better matchups in the game against Rosalina.
Especially with customs.
Let's start with Rosalina's advantages:
  • Rosalina outranges Mario by a country mile, which is particularly crippling for Mario. Because of this, Mario has difficulties getting against Rosalina.
  • Luma can potentially interrupt Mario's combos.
  • Speaking of combos, Rosalina herself isn't too susceptible to being combos, being the 4th lightest character in the game.
  • With Luma Warp, Rosalina can cover lots of space in a second, and have a long-range punish that confirms into any move she wants.
  • Rosalina gains a powerful edgeguarding and stage control tool in Floaty Star Bit.
  • Rosalina gains an absurdly powerful and fast projectile in Shooting Star Bit.
  • Rosalina's great recovery can be made nearly ungimpable with Launch Star+.
  • Rosalina's already strong defensive game gets even stronger with Guardian Luma.
  • Gravitational Pull can suck in Mario's projectiles
  • Luma is not affected by any of Mario's Capes, nor can he be pushed away by F.L.U.D.D.
And of course, Mario.
  • Mario's back throw will immediately seperate Rosalina and Luma.
  • Mario can KO Rosalina rather easily.
  • Mario's great projectile can pressure Rosalina into using Gravitational Pull, which he can capitalize on.
  • Fireballs are great for chipping on damage on Luma.
  • Mario gains an amazing edgeguarding and KO option in Shocking Cape, which will most likely knock Luma out in one hit.
  • Mario gains an impressive recovery with a Super Jump, increasing his offstage options, especially combined with Shocking Cape.
  • Explosive Punch is an extremely potent move which will most likely KO Rosalina at around 80%.
  • Mario possesses a great spacing tool in back air.
  • Mario's amazing up smash can be used to halt any aerial approaches Rosalina might take, and possibly KO her.
All in all, Mario has the options necessary to deal with Rosalina, especially with customs. Rosalina, however, has amazing an defensive game that many characters, not just Mario, have hell getting through. Rosalina's defensive game is more powerful than Mario's offensive and defensive combined, and as such, I'll say the matchup is 55:45 in Rosalina's favor. She just all around has an easier time in the fight than Mario, who's constantly struggling against Luma. Really, the matchup is 55:45 in Luma's favor.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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@ MarioMeteor MarioMeteor : We are not using ratios anymore. Please refer to the scoring rules on the directory thread to know how the scoring should be formatted. Also, be sure to split up your score if you have one for no customs, and one for customs being used.
 

MarioMeteor

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Really, now? Why so quick to drop ratios? They worked all right.
So with this new format in mind:
Default: +1
Customs: +-0
 

Kaishin

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Mario's fireballs are basically impossible to jab out of the air since he can vary distance and they bounce. He isn't Luigi.

He wins neutral and if he gets in combos us to hell with numerous little lag bairs as well as the dair with its weird properties. All of his little start up and end lag moves are perfectly for punishing Rosalina's moves (which have just enough endlag). Of course every attempt to space is simply met with more fireballs.

His kill options are a bit more limited but he has the cape and that thing is nasty against us. Rosalina has no guaranteed way of avoiding except for of course recovery straight up, which is telegraphed and invites bairs and even fairs. His smashes also kill quite early for their speed. Around 90 to 100. The invincibility on his usmash combined with how short he is also means he can parry our grabs with it. They seem to just straight up miss.

Unless someone wants to tell me how to gimp a Mario's recovery with dtilt, I'm going to pass it off as basically impossible outside of the 1 frame window. That thing sweetspots, has a huge disjointed range (Mario can damage us in the middle of our jab with it), and beats pretty much everything.

This is a -1 (not quite a -2 but -1.5 isn't really valid) for Rosalina. It's not as bad as Yoshi but it's still ridiculous. I don't know why people think this is in Rosalina's favor. I am having a lot of trouble dealing with Marios and even Docs. Help please.

With customs Rosalina gets a way of dealing with the fireballs, somewhat, but Mario can simply jump in the air and shoot more fireballs anyway. Mario gets some more kill options but so do we. I think Mario's customs help him more, but not enough to change the ratio. I'd still say -1.5, so basically, -1.
 
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MarioMeteor

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Mario's fireballs are basically impossible to jab out of the air since he can vary distance and they bounce. He isn't Luigi.

He wins neutral and if he gets in combos us to hell with numerous little lag bairs as well as the dair with its weird properties. All of his little start up and end lag moves are perfectly for punishing Rosalina's moves (which have just enough endlag). Of course every attempt to space is simply met with more fireballs.

His kill options are a bit more limited but he has the cape and that thing is nasty against us. Rosalina has no guaranteed way of avoiding except for of course recovery straight up, which is telegraphed and invites bairs and even fairs. His smashes also kill quite early for their speed. Around 90 to 100. The invincibility on his usmash combined with how short he is also means he can parry our grabs with it. They seem to just straight up miss.

Unless someone wants to tell me how to gimp a Mario's recovery with dtilt, I'm going to pass it off as basically impossible outside of the 1 frame window. That thing sweetspots, has a huge disjointed range (Mario can damage us in the middle of our jab with it), and beats pretty much everything.

This is a -1 (not quite a -2 but -1.5 isn't really valid) for Rosalina. It's not as bad as Yoshi but it's still ridiculous. I don't know why people think this is in Rosalina's favor. I am having a lot of trouble dealing with Marios and even Docs. Help please.

With customs Rosalina gets a way of dealing with the fireballs, somewhat, but Mario can simply jump in the air and shoot more fireballs anyway. Mario gets some more kill options but so do we. I think Mario's customs help him more, but not enough to change the ratio. I'd still say -1.5, so basically, -1.
It sounds like you're giving Mario too much space. Either that, or your not utilizing Rosalina's godlike (pun not intended) defensive game.
 

Nadeko Sengoku

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Mario's fireballs are basically impossible to jab out of the air since he can vary distance and they bounce. He isn't Luigi.

He wins neutral and if he gets in combos us to hell with numerous little lag bairs as well as the dair with its weird properties. All of his little start up and end lag moves are perfectly for punishing Rosalina's moves (which have just enough endlag). Of course every attempt to space is simply met with more fireballs.

His kill options are a bit more limited but he has the cape and that thing is nasty against us. Rosalina has no guaranteed way of avoiding except for of course recovery straight up, which is telegraphed and invites bairs and even fairs. His smashes also kill quite early for their speed. Around 90 to 100. The invincibility on his usmash combined with how short he is also means he can parry our grabs with it. They seem to just straight up miss.

Unless someone wants to tell me how to gimp a Mario's recovery with dtilt, I'm going to pass it off as basically impossible outside of the 1 frame window. That thing sweetspots, has a huge disjointed range (Mario can damage us in the middle of our jab with it), and beats pretty much everything.

This is a -1 (not quite a -2 but -1.5 isn't really valid) for Rosalina. It's not as bad as Yoshi but it's still ridiculous. I don't know why people think this is in Rosalina's favor. I am having a lot of trouble dealing with Marios and even Docs. Help please.

With customs Rosalina gets a way of dealing with the fireballs, somewhat, but Mario can simply jump in the air and shoot more fireballs anyway. Mario gets some more kill options but so do we. I think Mario's customs help him more, but not enough to change the ratio. I'd still say -1.5, so basically, -1.
Personally I think the match up is +1 in Rosalina's favor both with and without customs.

I don't see how Mario wins neutral at all since he gets walled out really hard and he has to get our face when we do not. You're right Mario's fireballs are not like Luigi's because Luigi can get a grab from his fireballs while Mario can't. Mario has great easy to chain combos IF he is given the opening. While Rosalina does not have a hit box on her up b, she can use up air to try and pressure the on stage Mario if she is coming from below, and if he chooses to bair and stage spike you can always tech that, but this varies from player to player. Luma's crazy priority and disjoint can beat out many of his approaches so he can't just go all willy nilly and win. Mario is ridiculously easy to gimp with b-airs and d-airs. Here is a video of Dabuz vs The Rapture but also keep in mind that this is not me saying that this is how you HAVE to play the match up or that this is the greatest example of what the match up is like, this is a simply a video to show you how the match up plays out at a tournament level which we can assume that both players know what they're doing with the respective characters


EDIT: also if you manage to get stage control as Rosalina, Mario struggles so much due to how crazy Rosalina and Luma's stage control is
 
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Kaishin

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Personally I think the match up is +1 in Rosalina's favor both with and without customs.

I don't see how Mario wins neutral at all since he gets walled out really hard and he has to get our face when we do not. You're right Mario's fireballs are not like Luigi's because Luigi can get a grab from his fireballs while Mario can't. Mario has great easy to chain combos IF he is given the opening. While Rosalina does not have a hit box on her up b, she can use up air to try and pressure the on stage Mario if she is coming from below, and if he chooses to bair and stage spike you can always tech that, but this varies from player to player. Luma's crazy priority and disjoint can beat out many of his approaches so he can't just go all willy nilly and win. Mario is ridiculously easy to gimp with b-airs and d-airs. Here is a video of Dabuz vs The Rapture but also keep in mind that this is not me saying that this is how you HAVE to play the match up or that this is the greatest example of what the match up is like, this is a simply a video to show you how the match up plays out at a tournament level which we can assume that both players know what they're doing with the respective characters


EDIT: also if you manage to get stage control as Rosalina, Mario struggles so much due to how crazy Rosalina and Luma's stage control is
That video was definitely a good learning experience, but not with regards to my arguments. At no part of that video did Rosalina have to deal with Mario's fireballs (the Mario player got impatient and rushed in) and at no point did she gimp his recovery. You also didn't acknowledge my argument about Rosalina not being able to deal with his fireballs.

I hate to say that the matchup was just Dabuz being better, but that's honestly what it felt like. Why did that Mario player approach at all when he could've just fired off fireballs like no tomorrow? Seriously, if you can camp, you camp. That's why Yoshi is so difficult for Rosalina players. Aggressive Yoshis don't get slaughtered, but they certainly shoot themselves in the foot (and then flutter kick anyway, whatever).

Also, Luigi can't do jack to Rosalina with his fireballs. As I said before, they can be jabbed. Mario's can't. Not reliably, anyway. They bounce and Mario can vary the distance.

It sounds like you're giving Mario too much space. Either that, or your not utilizing Rosalina's godlike (pun not intended) defensive game.
I realize that holding down on the control stick automatically wins neutral against a large part of the cast, but, fireballs, man.
 
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MarioMeteor

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I realize that holding down on the control stick automatically wins neutral against a large part of the cast, but, fireballs, man.
Have a horrid amount of ending lag that you should be able to punish. Especially if you have Luma Warp and/or Guardian Luma.
 

Kaishin

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Have a horrid amount of ending lag that you should be able to punish. Especially if you have Luma Warp and/or Guardian Luma.
I'll have to write that down, but what about without customs? I barely play with customs. Also, Mario fireballs in the air, not on the ground.
 

Nadeko Sengoku

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That video was definitely a good learning experience, but not with regards to my arguments. At no part of that video did Rosalina have to deal with Mario's fireballs (the Mario player got impatient and rushed in) and at no point did she gimp his recovery. You also didn't acknowledge my argument about Rosalina not being able to deal with his fireballs.

I hate to say that the matchup was just Dabuz being better, but that's honestly what it felt like. Why did that Mario player approach at all when he could've just fired off fireballs like no tomorrow? Seriously, if you can camp, you camp. That's why Yoshi is so difficult for Rosalina players. Aggressive Yoshis don't get slaughtered, but they certainly shoot themselves in the foot (and then flutter kick anyway, whatever).

Also, Luigi can't do jack to Rosalina with his fireballs. As I said before, they can be jabbed. Mario's can't. Not reliably, anyway. They bounce and Mario can vary the distance.
The issue with Mario's fireballs is that they can be shielded and punished that's why Mario's shouldn't spam them. They have very little shield stun and very low priority and Luma just goes straight through them. I did not disregard your Fireball argument it's just i don't think the fireballs are that great vs Rosalina.

Camping will inevitably make Mario lose the match for multiple reasons, but the main one being he will lose stage control.

In that specific video he didn't gimp his recovery but if you watched carefully Mario couldn't recover because he was sent to far away and he had no more jumps, needless to say Mario has a lacking recovery.
 

Kaishin

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^ Not sure what you want me to PM you about. We're not taking the thread down south. This is a R&L v Mario MU discussion topic.

The issue with Mario's fireballs is that they can be shielded and punished that's why Mario's shouldn't spam them. They have very little shield stun and very low priority and Luma just goes straight through them. I did not disregard your Fireball argument it's just i don't think the fireballs are that great vs Rosalina.

Camping will inevitably make Mario lose the match for multiple reasons, but the main one being he will lose stage control.

In that specific video he didn't gimp his recovery but if you watched carefully Mario couldn't recover because he was sent to far away and he had no more jumps, needless to say Mario has a lacking recovery.
So you're saying I should just powershield them or something? Luma goes through them if its executing an attack but uh, that star isn't invincible. And the fireballs bounce, so this is iffy.

How does Mario lose stage control with a fireball? If that were true, there wouldn't be an issue approaching him when he's using them.

The question I'm asking here is solely "how do I move forward without getting hit by a fireball?"

Edit: I left this post incomplete. So if Mario's recovery is lacking, how can I gimp him if he does have enough room to recover?
 
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Nadeko Sengoku

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^ Not sure what you want me to PM you about. We're not taking the thread down south. This is a R&L v Mario MU discussion topic.



So you're saying I should just powershield them or something? Luma goes through them if its executing an attack but uh, that star isn't invincible. And the fireballs bounce, so this is iffy.

How does Mario lose stage control with a fireball? If that were true, there wouldn't be an issue approaching him when he's using them.

The question I'm asking here is solely "how do I move forward without getting hit by a fireball?"

Edit: I left this post incomplete. So if Mario's recovery is lacking, how can I gimp him if he does have enough room to recovery?
Nair, Run at him cause Luma will eat a fireball for you, dash attack, approach with LL and if he jumps to throw fireballs get under him and ruin his as...... just beat him up XD

You have so many options to edge guard with and Mario is not the only victim to this, but here's a few ways to gimp him:

Reverse Spin Jab at the ledge
Either Rosalina's or Luma's D-air, or both
Either Rosalina's or Luma's B-air, or both
Luma shot
N-air
F-air
F-smash
D-smash
I could go on and on and on but I won't
 
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tconan

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Well, basically everything has been said, I also vote +1 for Rosalina, both with and without customs.
Since I have to give an argument for my ratio to count...here's basically what you guys already said:
Rosalina pros:
-great edgeguarding
-walls out Mario well with Luma around
-Luma blocks fireballs
Mario pros:
-great juggling
-great combo game
-back throw is great for both killing Rosalina and separating Luma
Rosalina customs:
-shooting star bit makes Rosalina have equal footing when it comes to projectiles
-Luma warp is good for punishing mid range as usual, but Luma shot is better for setting up Reverse Spin Jab at the ledge
Mario customs:
-faster fireball
-possibly better FLUDD?
 

LightningLuxray

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RosaLuma control the stage in this MU, no questions. This is similar to the CF MU in the fact that Mario is always going to be trying to get in on Rosalina through most of the match. What Mario lacks in speed and reach, he makes up in a projectile (albeit not an amazing one) and sheer combo ability. If and when Mario does get in, Rosalina is easily eating 30% from down throw, up tilt, up air, and up B strings. It's scary how easy Mario can combo us at lower percents, which means its absolutely imperative the Rosalina player uses her defensive options to keep Mario out. Lucky, Rosalina has a bunch of tricks up her sleeve - an approaching Mario has dtilt, jab, grab, starbits, and all of our aerial to deal with, making it very hard for Mario to start those combos that he desperately needs to win this MU. Fireball camping straight up doesn't work - between powershielding, Gravitational Pull, jab, Luma meat shield, and jumping, Mario's fireballs are used more to open up approach opportunities than to straight up camp with, which they do work quite well to do. I think Rosalina wins this MU the majority of the time thanks to her incredible kill potential - up smash, up air, and forward smash are all good moves to straight up kill with, but Rosa's Dair is also and amazing edgeguarding tool against Mario that is quite hard for him to do anything about. Mario has cape, fair, and fludd, but I personally don't feel as though and of these are really easy to hit if Rosalina is correctly sweetspotting her up B on the ledge. If you recovery high, though, you have a high chance of being hit by one of these moves. Mario's smashes aren't the easiest to hit either, with up smash being the only real strong kill option he has that he doesn't get a large amount of opportunities to use.

Overall, I say +1 (+1.5 if that's allowed?) in Rosa's favor with default due to her overall strong defensive tools and kill potential. I don't play with customs so I can't offer any input on how the MU plays with them.
 
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R e d X

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Very confident this is slight rosa advantage (55-45 or 6-4, so I'll say +1) in the default setting. Have played some very good marios before, and rosa's ability to zone at the neutral wins her this matchup. Mario has no answer to jab when luma's around and really just can't get in as a whole when patiently played. When he does it's rough times, but that's noticeably outweighed by how much rosa gains in the neutral.
 

Underhill

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Well, I decided to post my insight on the MU since I main both if any Rosalina players wants some info from me.

Lets start with Mario, first.
:4mario:: Mario is a rushdown fighter with good mobility, good frame data, combos, decent edgeguard and projectile, jiggling game, weight, safe ko options, and the tools get rid of Luma. Back throw, d-air, Forward smash, and up-b are what he'll go for to split up both Rosalina and Luma to get rid of the star and rush you down. Also, you'll have trouble getting him off of you when he plays aggressive and trying to kill him because her smash attacks aren't safe. Up-smash may help not only to hitstun Luma to get rid of it, but as a jiggle tool which is good against you due to Rosalina being floaty and her landing options aren't safe unless she uses Lunar landing. Once Luma is gone, Mario can combo her well because she's a large target for it. Be careful using Gravitational Pull because if he baits you to use it for his fireball, then he can punish you since you still have end lag along with Luma if doing it close. Only do GP if he does his fireball at mid-range or he chooses to camp. Mario can give Rosalina trouble landing safely since she's floaty so do not d-air on Mario while landing on the way down even if the halo hitbox(or ring XD) trades with Mario's up-smash because he'll go for a power shield and gets to punish your landing lag for free. One more thing for jiggling, his up-air is fast and good for not only for jiggling to also combo Rosalina, but can also auto cancel out of Short hop to bait you for a punish. Mario has fast aerials(but f-air) and can mix those up with auto-cancel and reverse-aerial for short combos, unpredictable approaching, mindgame, and baiting so watch out for them and do your best to stop his approaches by reading them. Also, his aerials are faster than Rosalina's. His ko options are alittle safer along with up-smash, down-smash, and back-air, and they're good with rage because Rosalina is floaty, really light and a easy target to land hits on as well. Plus, Mario can live longer unless you get him off stage and try to gimp him. Rosalina's recovery is gimpble since she has no hitbox so Mario can gimp with cape if he reads it, b-air for a stage spike, Fludd(not that useful for gimping, but just in case if he places you in a bad position or for spacing), f-air if he reads you, and n-air. If he reads your air dodge and di with his forward-air out of his down throw from the ledge at 60% least, then you'll dead so mix up your di and hope that you survived. Ledge guards are useful for him to kill you with his down smash and down angled forward smash. One more thing, with his ground mobility, he can mix his approaches with fox and dance trots, go for pivot grabs, tiles, forward smash, and up smash so keep a eye out for his mix ups, guess correctly, and shut his approaches while keeping luma safe.

Now with the Mother of stars.
:rosalina:: Rosalina's range, superior edgeguarding game, and jiggling game can be a huge threat for Mario. Use jabs to not only snipe down Mario's approaches since he doesn't have a good front approach, but also Luma's jabs for him(or her) to punch through the fireballs. Forward tile and down tile are good against Mario because their range can out-space and shut down his approaches along with Luma for the ride so use those. Also, Short hop n-air and b-air are useful for zoing and spacing against Mario along with Lunar landing for auto cancel. Jiggling game is more dangerous with Luma against Mario because he can't challenge your disjointed moves due to his low range aerials to get out of it so use up-tile, up-smash, and up-airs to jiggle him. Keep him in the air, above you if you can as possible, and start jiggling him with your dangerous up-airs(along with Luma) because like I said, he can't get out of them since your up-air is strong and disjointed, and all he got is air dodge which if you read it, then free damage for you. You can also combo him with your up-airs, get early kills with it(even without rage), and frame trap him with Luma's hitbox for more damage. Up-tile and up-smash are good anti-air moves against Mario's low range aerials. Lunar landings are useful for out-spacing him, getting small combos, baiting, and mindgame. Even though her up and forward smash aren't safe because of end lag and without Luma on your side, they can still kill Mario if fresh since they're disjointed with Luma, used to out-spaced him, and even kill early(along with rage) well as you don't just use them for him to get a easy punish on you so use pivot smashes to add options for yourself. Down smash isn't as strong as her other smashes, but the back hit can kill, used for damage, out space Mario, and to ledge punish the plumber. If you use GP on Mario's fludd, than not only you can act out of it after sucking in the water, but Mario will have to charge it up and gets nothing out of it. However, be careful using it off stage against his fludd because of the end lag, and it will be easier for him to read and gimp you. If you space your aerials correctly, then you'll out-space him first, but his aerials are still faster, though. Rosalina's edgeguarding is stronger than Mario because you can kill better off stage. Down-air is the biggest threat because it's disjointed and not only she can spike him down out of his low-ranged up-b, but can also knock him far with Luma's hitbox. Plus, that hitbox can get a early kill as well. Back air can be added as well for another gimp option. She can ledge punish him with down-smash, down-tile, down angled forward smash, and down-air on Rosalina's hitbox. You can ledge trumiping him for a back-air if you can. Neutral b for zoning and spacing, just don't charge it all of the way up and let him cape your Luma right back at you. He can't cape your star bits so out space you and mindgame along with Lunar landings.

Stages: Ban Lylat cruise because its her worst stage because of the stage tiling and it can mess up her recovery. Pick Battlefield because while he can combo you more and get more set ups, Rosalina can use the platforms to harass Mario by jiggling him more with up-airs, give him trouble getting off of platforms to get to the ground with up-tile, up-smash, and with along Luma as well if you guess his landing on the platform. Also, use SH n-air and b-air on Mario when he's on a platform for mindgame, pressure, and jiggles as well. Pick Delfino Plaza and Helberb the most because while Mario can get early verical kos with up-smash, up-air, d-air, and up-throw due to the low ceiling, Rosalina can be also get some earlier verical kills with the low ceiling from her up-airs and up-smashes, and can jiggle the crap of Mario with platforms almost the so she does better at those stages than Mario, including Battlefield thanks to her tall height and disjointed range along with Luma. Dreamland is ok for both of them and its the same as battlefield, but the wind to mess up her recovery. Duck hunt, both can well since Mario can't get stage spike kills, Rosalina can use her up-air under to harass Mario and even get a early kill, but he can live longer because of the blastzones.

Customs: Shooting star bit will be your to go, but look out for the cape, though. Guarding Luma to block Mario's incoming attacks, mindgame, and out spacing him. Use teleport Luma because he can't cape the star, and you can use the teleport for set-ups and mindgames. Shock cape he will use for another ko option and to knock Luma away even if you shield. Fast fireball are useful against Rosalina so don't use GP because its useless. Scalding Fludd if he wants to because even if you shield, the water still hurts Luma.

Results: 1+ in Rosalina's favor because even though :4mario: can rushdown Rosalina, combo her, ko her early, has better frame data, edgeguard, and has the moves to get rid of Luma, :rosalina:can give Mario problems with her disjointed range, jiggling game, superior edgeguarding, and snipe out his approaches with Luma. So, she's really a big threat to Mario and can cause big problems for him along with platforms because of his low range, weight for her combos, and predictable recovery.
As for customs, its 0(or even) because Mario's shock cape and Fast fireball can help him get in on you more and get rid of Luma. Scalding Fludd is a option for Mario to space, mindgame, and can also damage Luma even if you shield.

Have fun with the MU, Rosalina players because its in your favor and as long as you out-range him with your disjointed moves, mindgame, jiggle him hard with up-airs, edgeguard him, keep Luma alive, and avoid serious punishes from Mario, then you're do fine so do your best against the plumber.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Mario is being analyzed again for this week. If you have anything to contribute for the match-up, especially in regards to the newest software update, this is the place to do it.
 

mario123007

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I will get more in depth analysis when I have time to play Smash few weeks later.
 

Underhill

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I'll go into more detail when I have the chance and gain more for both sides. Otherwise from my preview post, Rosalina still walk all over Mario with a +1. Her Juggling game, Range, superior edgeguards, Luma, stuffing out Mario's approaches, and pressure game with Luma can still give Mario trouble more than his tools, but can still keep up with her such as his mobility, combos, catching Rosalina's landings, tools to take out Luma with b-throw and d-air and such, gimping her as well, and pressure game.
 

mario123007

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I'll go into more detail when I have the chance and gain more for both sides. Otherwise from my preview post, Rosalina still walk all over Mario with a +1. Her Juggling game, Range, superior edgeguards, Luma, stuffing out Mario's approaches, and pressure game with Luma can still give Mario trouble more than his tools, but can still keep up with her such as his mobility, combos, catching Rosalina's landings, tools to take out Luma with b-throw and d-air and such, gimping her as well, and pressure game.
Bu this doesn't means that Mario is totally helpless, a good Mario will be very patient by taking Luma first. And with good combos, Mario can often KO Rosalina early.
 

Underhill

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Bu this doesn't means that Mario is totally helpless, a good Mario will be very patient by taking Luma first. And with good combos, Mario can often KO Rosalina early.
Read the rest, man. I wasn't finished on what I said with my insight and its a +1, not a +2 lol
When I find a competitive Mario or Rosalina player who knows the mu, their character, and who can measure up, then I'll put out the rest on to help out Rosalina ☺
 

Super FOG

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Urgh!! I hate this MU so freaking much! I don't even believe that Mario's advantages does mean something! This MU teached me how to hate Rosalina. :(

First off, Mario doesn't have any approach whatsoever because of Luma, Mario doesn't have a projectile, has barely any aerial game and only one throw, which is back throw that Mario really need to avoid staling it if he want to kill Rosalina effectively. I believe hte worst part of this MU is Rosalina's air game, that neutral air with infinite hitbox makes me tear my hair every single time I get hit, and the goddamn up air that really, REALLY needs a very big ending lag, overall, Rosalina's air game shrugs Mario's air game except for Mario's down air, as a multihit attack, it's very precious to get rid of Luma.

Rosalina +2 overall.
 
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Planty

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Mario doesn't have a projectile, has barely any aerial game and only one throw, which is back throw that Mario really need to avoid staling it if he want to kill Rosalina effectively.
Have you ever played this game?
 

Kaishin

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"only KO throw" Mario has the godliest usmash and undeniably the best one in the entire game. This game has Rosalina and subsequently Rosalina's up smash, so that is saying a LOT. In any case, that more than makes up for his kill problems. Of course getting kills with Mario still isn't free (in contrast to everything else about him) because kills by design aren't supposed to be free.

This MU isn't negative like I thought, but it's still hella annoying. Mario is frustratingly difficult to punish, even moreso than someone like Sheik because Sheik can't counterpunish a missed punish with an up smash kill (well it might be possible but I've never seen it happen).

His usmash is extremely safe thanks to it making him invincible, having little amounts of endlag and scoring kills. The top players probably don't have as much difficulty punishing as I do since their tech skill is on point, but the amount of bull**** us plebs have to deal with thanks to this move is absolutely ridiculous. Tenfold as much when playing online, since Mario is the only character that gives Yoshi a run for his money in lag.

It beats our grab despite part of his body not being invincible and clearly in our hitbox. It's like a Yoshi in the landing lag of a fair or a Jigglypuff ducking. Fun fact: Puff's duck doesn't dodge our standing grab, only our running grab. Mario's usmash evades both

You also can't challenge it from the air, but it's a usmash so that's supposed to be the case. Whatever.

Mario's uair is extremely good in this matchup. At very low percents, he can combo 3 or 4 of them out of a throw for a very good amount of damage. Most characters can't combo Rosa for anything significant at all, so that's a huge boon for Mario.

His Bair has a lot of range, being able to easily breach through Luma and pressure Rosalina provided Mario mixes it up. Obviously if he does nothing but bair we're going to usmash through it. But we can't do that on reaction. It has to be a read. It's also very fast and can be used multiple times in quick succession, making Mario's bair very safe.

His dair isn't as fast, but it has a Luigi down b-style hitbox so it is also hard to punish and space around. He can also approach with it and this will either separate Luma (shield grab for us) or he'll land behind us, where he's safe. It's a 50/50 and if we shield grab then Mario has an up smash ready. It's a very common tactic and to my knowledge there's really nothing Rosalina can do about it.

His nair is frame 3, giving him all of the combo breaker he ever needs. He can also punish us for missing a uair by spamming the attack button to use this move after he air dodges.

Mario can up b out of our rapid jab faster than Yoshi can nair out of it. He is intangible in certain parts of it too, making it ludicrously difficult to gimp his recovery since I have to hit him with a frame 19-23 hitbox halo spike or somehow hit him in the two frames he's vulnerable before a ledge snap. Mario can use the move from really low so going down there does nothing and will only lose us Luma as we try to somehow beat his invincibility. Hitting him in the two frames before a ledge snap gives him his jump back, so there's no real gimping Mario, only spiking or somehow Luma dairing (you get sent forward and slightly up at a high velocity; it's generally an offstage kill move).

Combine this with how heavy Mario is and he lives forever.

Oh, and his bthrow is the third easiest Luma slayer in the game, right behind Meta Knight's dash attack and Sheik's fair.

Mario is most certainly not defenseless in this MU.
 
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Kaishin

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Yes, I vote +0 without customs and +1 with (since we get SSL and a reliable kill option).
 

Planty

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More than you, certainly.

Back throw kills the luma good, but it's also the only KO throw that Mario have.
Ooh. Sorry if I offended you.

But seriously though, Mario has a projectile, 4 throws, and one of the best sets of aerials in the game. I responded like that because what you said is completely false. If you meant to say that they're useless in this MU, you need to specify it. However, that is also false.

Mario's fireball works really well from a fullhop because it goes past Luma and hits Rosa and after Mario shoots it, he could fall down with a Nair or w/e which is a really strong option in many MU.

Mario's airgame is great. I have no idea why you think otherwise. Top tier aerial mobility with some of the best aerials in the game combo like crazy. He could weave in and out and really mess up SoRo with just Bairs alone before rushing in for a grab.

And he has 4 throws. 3 of which are useful. U-throw combos at 0%, but past that D-throw is preferable because it's like easy mode combos with that thing, especially on Rosalina's giant body. B-throw once again kills Rosa at higher % and is an easy kill on Luma (one unknown thing about Luma mechanics is that if you hold Rosa for long enough, Luma moves behind her. You can use this to influence where Luma is launched during B-throw; B-throw immediately to hit Luma behind you or wait a second before B-throw to send Luma in front of you.)

And you say that it's bad to stale his only kill throw. Why? If staling it just a bit means that you put yourself in an advantageous position to rack up lots of damage with Mario's combos and unstale it almost instantly because Mario combos last so long, why not? Even it was completely 100% stale, it's not exactly that great of a kill throw. You don't generally get kills with that against good players. You have enough kill options with that silly U-smash and caping launch Star (which is basically an auto gimp at any % because Launch Star is so predictable. Gimping Mario back isn't that easy either.)

You need to re-evaluate your opinion on this matchup.
 
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Super FOG

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I'm sorry for my salty post before this, but the fact is that facing Rosalina is painful to me since the ever release of this game. I must have some sort of psychological blocking in my mind, the fact is that I simply can't fight Rosalina without getting nervous and angry after by screwing up so much. So, I set my mind about Mario being terrible against Rosalina, my aerials, except for the d-air, doesn't work, I can only b-throw Rosalina before the f***ing Luma break my grab, edgeguarding sometimes is fine and other times is frustrating, she can get back from very far and spotting to punish her can be troublesome. I grew so tired of this matchup that I've already tested many other characters specifically for dealing with Rosalina, never made it anyway.

What do I need to beat Rosalina with Mario with such a big psychological barrier like this? It's boring to hate a great character because of Smash.
 

Planty

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What do I need to beat Rosalina with Mario with such a big psychological barrier like this? It's boring to hate a great character because of Smash.
You need to clear your head. Try finding simple breathing or relaxing exercises online that you can do before the match. Rosalina's weaknesses are clearly defined. It's your job to exploit them before the Rosa player can stop you. The best way to do that is to calm down, get the pre-match salt out of you, and use your head. Mario does have the tools to handle any situation, after all.
 
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