Necro'lic
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2015
- Messages
- 654
Redesign/Rebalance threads
Samus
Oh boy, here I go again. After a long time not really giving Smash too much of a thought (been too busy with other games and coming to terms with the futility of finding a programming job, hehe
), I have come back because I have gotten some cool ideas for some less appreciated characters, including these two.Like most gimmick characters, I feel that the way Smash is has not allowed for their gimmick to really flourish as a unique mechanic, and I intend to fix that (hopefully). For the few people that care about these threads, prepare for a bit of a short ride. I'm not really keen on doing full moveset changes anymore, unless it's to declone a character. So here's what I'd add to the duo.
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Luma Changes- Now has 32% health
- Has 38.4% health in 1v1 combat
- Projectiles will now deal 66% less damage and knockback to Luma
- Will now automatically get out of tumble from being hit after 1 second
- Will immediately path back to either Rosalina if Luma was hit while next to her, or path to his prior position relative to Rosalina if he was hit while separated
- Cannot control Luma at this time
- Will immediately path back to either Rosalina if Luma was hit while next to her, or path to his prior position relative to Rosalina if he was hit while separated
- Now respawns in 15 seconds
- Respawns in 10 seconds if player count = 3
- Respawns in 6.5 seconds if player count > 3
- Separated Luma now gains 75% extra damage to attacks
- Luma will now spotdodge, roll, and airdodge with Rosalina
- Has invulnerability frames
- Luma will now jump and fastfall with Rosalina, keeping his relative position to her at all times while separated
- When Rosalina turns around, Luma will immediately teleport to the relative position in front of Rosalina after turning
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So the gameplan here is to give more power to Luma in the form of controlling him while he's untethered to Rosa. Before we get to Luma Shot itself and how that happens, some changes to Luma himself are here.
The first change that will pop out is that Luma has 8% less health than current (40%), but that he will heavily resist all projectiles that hit him. This is to weaken Luma himself in melee combat due to the increased control Rosalina will have puppeteering him. However, he still gets a consolation in being good against zoners, though the projectile will easily push him away.
The next huge change, and another reason to weaken Luma to make him easier to get rid of, is now after a single second of tumble, Luma will automatically just start being tethered back to Rosalina again, meaning hitting Luma once over the edge of a stage is no longer a viable option of getting rid of him. In return, though, he will be uncontrollable until he gets back in position, so while it is far less punishing to Rosalina, it is still a good thing to attack Luma if only for the elongated opening it provides regardless.
Next, a longer respawn time. This is again to compensate for Luma's newly gained survivability and control ability, but will make more sense when we get to Luma Shot.
Next up, a bigger boost of damage when separated from Rosa. This is mostly to give an excuse to weaken Luma's damage when next to Rosalina so as to not allow them too much damage, since I would buff Rosalina's damage to make her less helpless without Luma. It's a bit of a compensation triangle lol.
The biggest change other than the tumble one is Luma will now do all dodge actions with invincibility whenever Rosalina does. Again, making him more controllable and survivable. In addition, he will jump when Rosalina jumps, making aerial combat with Luma far more smooth.
Lastly, when Rosa turns around, Luma will immediately teleport into position rather than hover to the position. This just makes quick repositioning and catching rolls with Luma far easier.
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and Neutral-B/Unique Action:- Luma Shot: Shoots out Luma to separate him from Rosalina, dealing damage and knockback while flying forward. Can charge up to send Luma different distances while also slightly increasing damage dealt. Pressing the special button will send Luma back to Rosalina. While separated, Luma can change position manually by holding down the special button. Position can only be changed by circling around Rosalina without getting closer. Can also change the direction Luma is facing this way. When Luma is not present, holding the button will shave time off of Luma's respawn timer. Pressing the unique action button while Luma is separated will cause him to hold position, no longer following relative to Rosalina. Can cancel this by either pressing the unique action button again, or holding the special button
- Luma is fully invulnerable while charging and while flying
- There are now five distinct charge levels on Luma Shot, each sending Luma a set distance away from Rosalina
- Takes 1.2 seconds to fully charge
- Maximum distance is about 66% the length of Battlefield
- Respawn reduction is 0.24 seconds for every charge level reached whiel holding the button without Luma present
- Total respawn time reduction from one full charge is 1.2 seconds
- While manually controlling Luma, tilting to the sides will cause him to face different directions
- Luma can be manually controlled while charging smash attacks by holding down the unique action button as if it were the special button
- Only works when in a smash attack charge animation
- Low startup
- Below average endlag
- Knockback is upwards at a 50 degree angle
- Barely unsafe on shield
- Low shield damage
- Approximate damage numbers:
- Charge levels: 6%/9%/12%/15%/18%
- Approximate kill times:
- Charge levels: 200%/190%/180%/170%/160%
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I'm sorry for that long description of the move, but it has a lot added to it. So launching Luma is the same as always, except there is only five levels of distance Luma will be launched from. This makes it easier to micromanage Luma's distance from Rosalina, thus allowing for better control. In addition, Luma is completely invulnerable both while charging and while launching forward. The hit itself hasn't changed much; it's not good for combos, pretty good damage, poor kill power, and poor shield pressure, but not unsafe on shield to the point where Luma can be attacked for free.
The big change is when you hold the button while Luma is out. In a circle around Rosalina, you can reposition Luma, so if you want him to attack above Rosa, you can do that. Heck, if you wanted him to attack from below the ledge, you can do that too. The power of this is immense on its own. But combine this with the aforementioned ability to jump and have Luma stay in a position relative to Rosalina herself, as well as the ability to dodge with Rosa and Luma truly becomes a true extension of her. But say you want Luma to not clone Rosa's movements? With the help of the still unused left shoulder button, Luma will stay in position, unable to jump, dodge, or anything other than attack. Cancelling is very easy too; either hitting Luma shot again, at all or hitting the unique action button will allow him to be controlled directly again. Again, the possibilities for this are staggering.
As a side bonus, if you charge up a smash attack, you can control Luma while the charge is happening, microspacing as you see fit. To make it easier on the fingers though, the left shoulder button will be the way to control him here rather than the special button.
And remember that longer respawn time? Now Rosalina can manually shave off the respawn by charging the Luma Shot while Luma is not there. This makes Lumaless Rosa less helpless (along with the higher damage on her attacks I mentioned) without removing the weakness of her being poor against rushdown while without Luma.
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Aerial FSmash:- New move: Creates a spatial rift in front of Rosalina. Luma will do a full body headbutt. While charging, gravity will be heavily reduced on both Rosalina and Luma, allowing them to float slowly down as they are charging. Will initiate landing lag if landing while charging
- Above average startup
- Average endlag
- High landing lag
- Knockback is at the Sakurai angle for both Rosalina and Luma
- Very high shield damage
- Average shield damage for Luma
- Barely safe on shield for both Rosalina and Luma
- Approximate damage numbers:
- Rosalina: 17.4%-24.4%
- Luma: 6.0%-8.4%
- Luma Untethered: 10.5%-14.7%
- Approximate kill times:
- Rosalina and Luma: 170%-140%
- Luma Untethered: 180%-160%
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Well this was a gimmick saved for my Falco rework, but I think this also fits Rosalina and Luma. Now there are aerial smash attacks at her disposal, and they are mostly there to give more variety for Luma's moveset and to give some parity between the options Rosalina has to puppeteer while in the air and on the ground. All smash attacks will cause both of them to float super slowly down while charging, so as to not become too out of position. And remember, you can control Luma while charging even these smash attacks.
So compared to the grounded FSmash, this one is quite a bit slower, but much more deadly, and of course, more usable in edgeguarding situations, where it shines the most. It also is a good shield breaker option for a character with so few. The biggest blunder of the move is the high startup, so it will require some reads to hit, but it worth it in good kill power and damage.
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Aerial USmash:- New move: Rosalina will arc her hands out, creating a large galaxy above her to damage enemies. Luma will instead do a powerful vertical kick upwards. Both have an early and late hitbox. While charging, gravity will be heavily reduced on both Rosalina and Luma, allowing them to float slowly down as they are charging. Will initiate landing lag if landing while charging
- Above average startup
- High endlag
- High DI deviation
- Very high priority
- Above average priority on Luma
- High landing lag
- Knockback is upwards at 90 degrees
- High shield damage
- Average shield damage on Luma
- Barely unsafe on shield on both Rosalina and Luma
- Approximate damage numbers:
- Rosalina:
- Early: 13.6%-19.0%
- Late: 10.0%-14.0%
- Luma:
- Early: 5.4%-7.6%
- Late: 4.5%-6.3%
- Luma untethered:
- Early: 9.5%-13.2%
- Late: 7.9%-11.0%
- Rosalina:
- Approximate kill times:
- Rosalina:
- Early: 190%-170%
- Late: 220%-200%
- Luma:
- Early: 240%-220%
- Late: 270%-250%
- Luma untethered:
- Early: 185%-165%
- Late: 215%-195%
- Rosalina:
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While the FSmash in the air is mostly for straight killing and edgeguarding, the USmash is instead for advance sharking and being a huge obstacle between the falling enemy and the ground. This move has very high priority and a huge hitbox, not unlike Ivysaur's UAir. The weakness is again high startup and it has a much lower kill potential than the other two aerial smash attacks. Otherwise, this move is a great aerial blockade and it does that just fine. For Luma, it actually has a slight kill potential increase, but not by much. It also doesn't have as much priority as Rosalina's and isn't nearly as big a hitbox, but again, this is compensated for by the ability to control Luma during the charge, so the slightly downgraded mirror of this move is warranted.
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Aerial DSmash:- New move: Rosalina will thrust her wand downward, creating a small explosion of stardust at her feet. Luma will instead do a downward headbutt. Meteor smashes. While charging, gravity will be heavily reduced on both Rosalina and Luma, allowing them to float slowly down as they are charging. Will initiate landing lag if landing while charging
- Average startup
- Above average endlag
- High landing lag
- Low priority on both Rosalina and Luma
- Knockback is downward at 270 degrees
- Above average shield damage
- Below average shield damage for Luma
- Safe on shield for both Rosalina and Luma
- Approximate damage numbers:
- Rosalina: 15.8%-22.1%
- Luma: 5.8%-8.1%
- Luma untethered: 10.2%-14.3%
- Approximate kill times:
- Rosalina: 170%-150%
- Luma: 260%-240%
- Luma untethered: 235%-215%
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And now Rosalina has a reliable meteorsmash on both her and Luma. This is the fastest aerial smash in terms of frame data, and it still does quite a bit of damage. The main downside is the low priority, so if not spaced correctly, most fighters will be able to swat her away without taking damage (or as much). In addition, it is safe on shield, making it a great, if situational, landing tool and aerial pressure tool when Rosa or Luma is above a platform. For Luma, the biggest penalty is kill power, due to the ability to abuse Luma's new control by meteor smashing from under the ledge. Overall, a great addition to Rosalina and Luma's arsenal.
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Side-B:- Star Bits: After a delay, Luma will shoot out 5 Star Bits in a cone shape in front of him in quick succession. Cannot even be attempted while Luma is not present.
- Star Bit distance is about 2 Luma widths away
- Star Bits are now considered projectiles and can be absorbed or reflected
- Are non-energy projectiles
- Delay on Star Bit shot is about 0.8 seconds
- Luma cannot move, dodge, or use any other attack while this is happening
- Can shoot behind Luma with the appropriate direction
- Cannot use Side-B at all while Luma is not present (there will not be an animation)
- Low startup
- Low endlag
- Unsafe on shield
- Average shield damage
- Knockback is at the Sakurai angle
- Approximate damage numbers:
- Star Bits: 2.2%
- Total: 11.2%
This move only has three major changes. Firstly, it is 5 star bits, meaning more hitboxes. It is also treated as a projectile move for a bit more counterplay against it. Lastly, and most importantly, there is a delay between starting the move, and the star bits coming out. This is a rudimentary set up move now, with even more potency due to the longer hitbox. This is how a Rosalina can cover her own approach if, say, an enemy is between both her and Luma. A good little addition I think.
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Up-B:- Launch Star: If Luma is either not present or next to Rosalina, she will summon a Launch Star that does multiple hits of damage around her before launching both her and anyone she hits along with her. Has a huge end delay after launch. Does not cause helplessness. Can only be done once while in the air and cannot do again until Rosalina hits the ground
- Has a max launch angle of about 40 degrees
- Any enemy caught is in hitstun exactly the same amount of time Rosalina is in hitlag after launch
- Hitlag after launch is about 1.25 seconds
- Launch star hitbox has a slight vacuum effect
- Extremely low startup
- Immense endlag
- Low shield damage
- Highly unsafe on shield
- Knockback is the same angle as the chosen angle of launch
- Approximate damage numbers:
- Launch Star multihit: 0.8% * 4
- Launch Star launcher: 6.8%
- Total: 10.0%
- New move: Sling Star: If Luma is both present and untethered to Rosalina, using this move will drag Rosalina towards Luma's position quickly, accelerating faster the further away they are at the start of the move. Can hold down the button to continuously attempt to merge at Luma's location. If Rosalina reaches Luma's location, both will be automatically tethered, thus allowing Up-B to become Launch Star
- If there are obstructions present, the Sling Star will break after 0.5 seconds of sending Rosalina into the obstruction
- Holding the button down will ignore this obstruction breaking rule
- Luma cannot move, dodge, or attack while Sling Star is active
- If there are obstructions present, the Sling Star will break after 0.5 seconds of sending Rosalina into the obstruction
- Extremely low startup
- Extremely low endlag
Similar to Joker's recovery, this is two totally different moves depending on whether or not Luma is untethered or not. If untethered, Rosalina will drag herself to Luma's location. Now remember all the control now allowed on Luma like holding position and moving him above her, and you should see the recovery and potential trapping possibility, along with some combo ability. And of course, when you reach Luma's position, you will be paired together, allowing for the use of Launch Star, the actual recovery move.
The Launch Star meanwhile is now a set up tool. Catching an opponent in the star itself with launch them with Rosalina, essentially leaving both in a state of lag for a while. Instead of being helpless, Rosalina just has a long bit of lag along with her opponent. It is still very risky to miss since Rosalina cannot use it again until she hits the ground, similar to Bowser Jr.'s recovery, so the Sling Star is also used as a backup recovery of sorts, since you can quickly launch Luma towards the stage to tether back to him.
As for launching the opponent with you, this is also good for 50/50's in the air, and when combined with Rosalina's new options in the air, it can make for some potential vertical combo starters.
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Down-B:- New move: Gravitational Field: Rosalina will create a small field around her that lowers the gravity of her and any opponent that enters it. In addition, if any form of knockback occurs outside the field on an enemy or to Luma, they will be knocked towards the field instead of the usual pathway. Any knockback that originated from within the field will behave normally. Repeated uses will have a dramatically lower duration
- Field is about 3 Rosalina widths in diameter
- Base duration is 8 seconds
- Can be taken down to 1.2 seconds in duration with repeated use
- Takes 25 seconds to fully recharge
- Extremely low startup
- Extremely low endlag
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Another out there idea that fits a bit more with the puppeteer motif, at least in one aspect, while also being a useful tool outside of that to boot.
So the idea is that there is a bubble around Rosalina that will make her and anyone that comes into it low gravity. Imagine the Timer item or Bayonetta's Witch Time, except you can actually attack normally and your air speed isn't actually changed, but your general inertia is about the same as that. This helps with Rosalina's aerial combat by making her almost able to stay stationary in the air to puppeteer Luma from safer angles and also makes sharking opponents even easier, especially when combined with the new aerial USmash.
But the bigger tool is whenever any enemy gets knocked back while outside the field; they will now be dragged towards the field instead of the normal way. So say, oh I don't know, Luma was outside the bubble and did a FSmash. Now instead of being knocked away from Rosalina, they will be knocked towards the bubble at high speeds, allowing for rudimentary combo ability between Rosalina and Luma that doesn't just involve DSmash! Incredible.
To make this not super confusing, any knockback that happens within the field will be normal, so if Rosalina throws an enemy, they won't come right back to create a cheap infinite. In addition, an enemy that hits her will not just have the knockback not happen (if you understand how the move works, you'd know that's what would happen if you can picture it in your head).
Overall, I like this addition and think it would make comboing between the two far more fun and engaging rather than frustrating.
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This is the first one I've done in a long while. Let me know what you think. Thanks also to the guys who gave me feedback in the last thread I made on this character forum.
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