Rolling is the New Wavedash?

[SweatshirtSwordsman.]

I'm not exactly sure what you guys think, but throughout the SDCC tourney this weekend, I saw most of the players constantly rolling for positioning. It looks like the roll is basically going to be the new positioning technique used, because the roll seems a lot faster than it was in Melee and Brawl. (Maybe its just Shiek's?) I really only watched a few matches, but what do you guys think?

 

[Animage]

rolls are still just rolls imo
They're there to get out of dangerous places with invincibility, not to space yourself and move around with accuracy

 

[Senario]

Rolls go farther but they are still rolls, they move a set distance and are likely to be punished because of that set distance. They are also a little faster but I really don't think they will be the new "wavedashing" or any such sort for mobility.

the SDCC Tourney had a somewhat decent turnout but by no means was everybody at that tourney a pro smash player, you could tell which ones were better and which ones were not.

 

[SweatshirtSwordsman.]

Rolls go farther but they are still rolls, they move a set distance and are likely to be punished because of that set distance. They are also a little faster but I really don't think they will be the new "wavedashing" or any such sort for mobility.

the SDCC Tourney had a somewhat decent turnout but by no means was everybody at that tourney a pro smash player, you could tell which ones were better and which ones were not.

Good point. The Bowser player who won, was miles better than the others...
Probably should have understood how little I used the roll in Brawl, before I posted this.

Mods, you should probably lock this thread.

 

[Padô]

Good point. The Bowser player who won, was miles better than the others...
Probably should have understood how little I used the roll in Brawl, before I posted this.

Mods, you should probably lock this thread.

I don't know if this should be locked or not.

Also, I don't see it working as a Wavedash because:

1- Other characters have really bad rolls like Samus. Wavedashes were something every character could benefit from;
2- You can do a lot of stuff from wavedashes, much more than rolls.
* Wavelands, platform movement from jumps, ledgehogs, Tilting, Smashing and grabbing after a Wavedash (Pivot Cancelling got this though.)

Sorry, just too many options the Wavedash covers and gives you comparede to the little things the fast-rolls might give you.

 

[Raijinken]

Looked exactly like lower-to-upper mid-level play, from all three past games, to me (where no one knows how to do advanced moves but most can tech and dodge well). I would say that rolling is the new rolling.

 

[bkslider]

It looks to be a bit more viable, but not a substitute for WDing. It's probably a bit more natural in the early stages of competitive play when more advanced movement options have yet to be established.

 

[Gidy]

Rolls we're too common in the 3DS Tournament. They'd just keep going and going even when out of harms way. Looks like sprinting goes faster though.

 

[Canuckduck]

More like Wavedashing was the new rolling.

 

[DaDavid]

I don't think the tread should be locked because it does actually provide a place to talk about the fact that rolling seems more useful than in the past. If anything just change the title so it invites more interesting replies than just "no, rolling is still rolling."

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

When you roll you dedicate yourself to X amount of frames to go from X to Y, Wavedashing gave you more freedom of where you ended up and what you did after it and how you could perform combos and follow-ups.

As a Lucario main I still say no to this, strong option? sure you can use it to get in, if they know you will, hint everyone expects me to, you can and will be punished for it.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Not sure about then being the next wavedash, but they sure are buffed.

@2:50 Fox rolls and cancels it into another roll and punishes Megaman for it. There is also another video illustrating this.

@8:03 look at Toon Link, he cancels his roll and does it multiple times.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

*reads topic title*

"does this mean I am top tierz yet, guize?"

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

To top it off, there's more to wavedashing than just being able to reposition out of shield. You can use the same mechanic to jump cancel other things like Fox's shine and slide into another shine or land with any character and use their regular landing animation period to be sliding, known as wave landing. None of that is possible with a roll.

 

[Shaya]

Specific length but fast rolls were very potent in Brawl (Meta Knight, Falco). They weren't wavedashing but were so structurally strong when you took into consideration buffering.

The best use of wavedashing in Melee was likely out of shield. Sure shine stuff, but that's character specific. The positional "aggressive defense" variability of wave dashing was really all about getting in with a punish. Which is what rolling can achieve, in my opinion.

Defensive rolls (Lucario's, also Falco's, Diddy's) should hopefully not be too prevalent, although Marth's backroll is huge/fast (about MK's froll frame data but probably 2/3rds or so longer).

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I feel like wavelanding is way more beneficial than wavedashing. That's why I loved platform canceling in Brawl so much as it was the closest thing to that.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I don't know if this should be locked or not.

Also, I don't see it working as a Wavedash because:

1- Other characters have really bad rolls like Samus. Wavedashes were something every character could benefit from;
2- You can do a lot of stuff from wavedashes, much more than rolls.
* Wavelands, platform movement from jumps, ledgehogs, Tilting, Smashing and grabbing after a Wavedash (Pivot Cancelling got this though.)

Sorry, just too many options the Wavedash covers and gives you comparede to the little things the fast-rolls might give you.

I have to disagree. Remember a little someone called ? Shortest, most useless wavedash of all characters, yet still one of the only viable characters in the game?

 

[Big-Cat]

Pivoting will be more important than rolling.

 

[Pazzo.]

Pivoting will be more important than rolling.

This. With Pivot Smashes and Tilts, we'll see a lot more ground game.

 

[Padô]

I have to disagree. Remember a little someone called ? Shortest, most useless wavedash of all characters, yet still one of the only viable characters in the game?

She's still get some benefits from it, they could not that relevant but they exist, wavedashing back to ledgehog is doable with Peach. Also she can waveland out of floats to retreat to safety. It's like Glidetoss, everyone has in Brawl but not everybody benefits from it a lot like G&W and Diddy for example.

 

[Saikyoshi]

[[I had a point, but I forgot what it was while I was typing it...]]

 

[Padô]

[[I had a point, but I forgot what it was while I was typing it...]]

Haha, no prob, happens on the best families. I will wait until you remember