ROB vs Snake.....

[6Mizu]

The following is my option and....I'm just wondering what other think of this subject.
(BTW, I second snake)
Is it just me or is snake a pretty difficult character for rob to fight. I mean look @ our best rob(holy) he loses to Ally (no offense holy, I <3 u ). He dies from a somewhat fresh N-air at around 170-190 range....and over lives very long. And rob as a hard time approaching snake and damaging him in some situations.
These are some of the reasons I say it should be 60:40 (snake's fav)

I'm pretty sure NO ONE will agree w/ this...but...look @ the facts people.
I made this post because I was curious...not because I lost to a snake. (for that matter I've never fought a decent snake).

Plz...People. NO FLAMZ! I'm not trying to any kind of war here.

 

[Tin Man]

I believe it is 50-50. A lot has been explained in the snake synopsis on the ROB matchup thread, check there.

 

[6Mizu]

mmmm....k.
I still feel that it will not change my mind...but I do it.

 

[CT Chia]

no i agree. the matchup is getting harder and harder as time goes on. snakes are learning how to not get gimped, not to cook nades v rob, DI better, avoid getting grabbed, etc. anyone that rob cant kill early is almost like an auto tough matchup lol

 

[Syde7]

*said this when we were discussing Snake ages ago* No one believed me. it was all "LOLGIMP!" and "ROFLCAMP! & II IS TEH EEZ!"

tsk tsk.

 

[jjvirus]

Is it just me or is snake a pretty difficult character for rob to fight. I mean look @ our best rob(holy) he loses to Ally (no offense holy, I <3 u ).

Ally is arguably the best player in the world, why wouldn't Holy have trouble with him? Even if R.O.B. did beat Snake, there is still a good gap of skill between the two of them.

He dies from a somewhat fresh N-air at around 170-190 range....and over lives very long

I can tell you right now, that's wrong.

And rob as a hard time approaching snake and damaging him in some situations.

Since when have we ever had to approach ANYONE?

These are some of the reasons I say it should be 60:40 (snake's fav)

If that's all you got, think of better reasons.

 

[Tin Man]

@ jjvirus: We have to approach Falco

 

[jjvirus]

Ok, I'll give you that one, as well as the other space animals. No one else besides them, maybe TL, and Link require us to approach is what I'm getting at. You can win against a good Snake and approach very few times.

 

[napZzz]

You shouldn't have to approach snake with ROB lol. You're doing it wrong if you are. You should be able to run away all day and win the camp war, occasionally getting a gimp to take a stock. If you play careful it shouldn't matter that he doesn't die. Becuase snake will have to come to YOU and that situation is your advantage and if you lose it then its your fault as a player.

Still at least 55:45 ROBs favor imo.

 

[TheMike]

ROB needs to approach Snake when it's time to get a KO. And that's the problem. ROB has difficulties to get a KO and Snake lives until 200%+.

I agree with what Chibo said. Snakes learned how to do everything. They will not get gimped anymore...

 

[napZzz]

who said ROB needs to approach? if you have a percent lead, you're winning. You can let snake live as long as you want as long as you're winning the match. Play more patient and the matchup is easily in ROBS favor because he has to come to you and you out camp him. Besides, he will die as long as he comes to you most of the time unless you **** up.

 

[TheMike]

And if you're losing? ROB can't kill if he only camps.

 

[HolyNightmare]

It's even but Snake as a way easier time no doubts, ROB can only make it even by gimping and dealing a lot of dmg during the recovery process. I don't doubt it's going to be Snake favor very soon, Snake mainers keep getting better. ROB mainers? It's like they don't exist. At Havoc in the hammer, I almost took 1 set out of Ally but this was without gimps because he's practically ungimpable now.

who said ROB needs to approach? if you have a percent lead, you're winning. You can let snake live as long as you want as long as you're winning the match. Play more patient and the matchup is easily in ROBS favor because he has to come to you and you out camp him. Besides, he will die as long as he comes to you most of the time unless you **** up.

ROB projectiles are extremely easy to block when you get used too, they're quite slow. Snake can also camp ROB back if he's smart enough. ROB has almost nothing on Snake on close range except spaced ftilts and grabbing the ftilt.

 

[napZzz]

you shouldn't assume ROB is losing. IF the match starts out right you should be able to get a fwe chip hits with camping and avoid snakes fairly easily if you play it right.

most of the time, ROB is in control. but if he DOES have to approach its fair game. But you cant assume thats the condition.

If ROB is winning percent he has complete control over this match. In percent, and espcially stock.

He also has ways of taking out snakes stock fast off stage. ITs not impossible, snakes jsut stopped recovering the same way everytime. Lrn2predict and stop whining. He's easy to keep in the air when you get in close as well and its not like he can punish if you play it that way.

I dont see how this can be snakes favor, DEAD EVEN at best, but thats only if the rob gets impatient

 

[TheMike]

Snakes don't care about %s. They have a Ftilt that racks up 21%, nade camp, Tech Chases with Dthrow... he can be in advantage easily if we are just talking about %s.

He can also kill easily as ROB is a big target and I don't need to say anything about Utilt's Hitbox.

Snake racks up damage quicly and kills easily. So, ROB will be in advantage only if the Snake is dumb as most of the time, Snake can be in advantage easily.


In short, ROB needs to be in advantage of stock, and not %, which is really hard on this MU.

 

[6Mizu]

@ JJ

We also approach Pit...and Olimar. (don't we?)

Also, I'm happy that you agree Chibo.
Any other takers?

 

[Sudai]

I don't approach anyone but Olimar and Fox. Falco lasers aren't hard to PS. Neither are Pit Arrows. Can't PS pikmin and you'll eventually run out of shield or take damage otherwise. Fox's lasers are just too hard to PS consistently.

Matches either start with them approaching me (woo hoo, advantaged position) or them spamming and me PSing. PSing is -not- hard in this game so you shouldn't be leaving 0% any time soon unless they approach. Just wait for them to get impatient.

 

[6Mizu]

@ Sudai:
That may be true (about Psing).....but that actually takes time to learn....believe me I've only fought one good falco in mt entire brawl career (w/ ROB) and he 2'ed me and I lost the match.
Also, you can PS and PS and PS....but at one point you'll eventually approach.

Here are some vids I located for us.
Take a look at these JJ and everyones else:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHd4T5BzGYQ (he dies from a Nair @ 177 on 1st stock)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p5-WvsIEVQ

Most of the time when Holy uses it gets PSed or dodged. (Again Holy, no offense) <3 <3 <3
Always <3 you (no homo)

 

[rPSIvysaur]

you shouldn't assume ROB is losing. IF the match starts out right you should be able to get a fwe chip hits with camping and avoid snakes fairly easily if you play it right.

most of the time, ROB is in control. but if he DOES have to approach its fair game. But you cant assume thats the condition.

If ROB is winning percent he has complete control over this match. In percent, and espcially stock.

He also has ways of taking out snakes stock fast off stage. ITs not impossible, snakes jsut stopped recovering the same way everytime. Lrn2predict and stop whining. He's easy to keep in the air when you get in close as well and its not like he can punish if you play it that way.

I dont see how this can be snakes favor, DEAD EVEN at best, but thats only if the rob gets impatient

if you play perfectly and powershield everything and always hit rob with your attacks lucas wins this matchup

100/0 next

Theorycrafting... Stingers wins...

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

ROB projectiles are extremely easy to block when you get used too, they're quite slow. Snake can also camp ROB back if he's smart enough. ROB has almost nothing on Snake on close range except spaced ftilts and grabbing the ftilt.

I'm going to keep track of this post. No one ever believes me when I say that rob's projectiles should be easy to block and punish. If Holy is saying it others should believe it.

If anything, I am thinking that ROB should try to be a bit aggresive in the match up. I've played campy robs, and I played you Holy over wifi with you being not campy. And I have to say that playing a rob that is up in your face is a lot harder to counter act. Thre reason is that you end up spending more time getting edgeguarded which racks up damage in a safer manor than camping seems to.

 

[6Mizu]

Ummm.....Actually rPSI if Snake is ahead...by like half a stoke...it's USUALLY safe to assume rob may lose. And camping/trixies don't really work against Snake.

Also read what Chibo said earlier :

no i agree. the matchup is getting harder and harder as time goes on. snakes are learning how to not get gimped, not to cook nades v rob, DI better, avoid getting grabbed, etc. anyone that rob cant kill early is almost like an auto tough matchup lol

The few good things about versing snake (that's not really in either of there favors):
He doesn't camp rob, and rob doesn't camp him.
Both rob and snake have a good CQ game.
Great spacing tilts for both.

Stuff in ROB's fav:
Awesome aerials for juggling/spacing/gimping.
Quick (overall).
Great throws for getting snake of stage and gimping him.
Laser can blow up grenades as soon as snake pulls on out.

Snakes Fav.:
Doesn't ever f-ing die. >.>
VURY strong.
Greandes (overall)
Grenades/ C4 > Rob's projectiles.
Quick tlits and aerials.
Lots and lots of Anti-juggle trixies/and ATs.
can keep lots of pressure on BOB. (lol)
Good approaches if ever need against rob.

If I missed any in either of the three sections, I'm sry

 

[Darth Waffles]

I hate fighting snakes that know how to play against ROB. Powershielding ROB's stuff isn't hard...at all. It's all too easy for snake to approach on the ground by simply getting closer and powershielding when necessary. Watching a projectile or tilt get powershielded and then getting hit by a ftilt is such a sucky feeling. Getting killed a LOT earlier isn't fun either.

I'd say right now ROB is barely hanging onto a 50-50 ratio. The numbers should come from highest level play and Snakes are simply powershielding better, controlling the stage more effectively, and not getting gimped nearly as easily. In short, they're getting better at this game (FISHY's thoughts reference). You have to play differently than you're used to because it's so easy to lose momentum from an early death or grenade explosion and so hard to get it back.

 

[jjvirus]

@ Sudai:
That may be true (about Psing).....but that actually takes time to learn....believe me I've only fought one good falco in mt entire brawl career (w/ ROB) and he 2'ed me and I lost the match.
Also, you can PS and PS and PS....but at one point you'll eventually approach.

Omg yurdumb yurdumb yurdumb yurdumb yurdumb yurdumb yurdumb yurdumb yurdumb yurdumb

Here are some vids I located for us.
Take a look at these JJ and everyones else:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHd4T5BzGYQ (he dies from a Nair @ 177 on 1st stock)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p5-WvsIEVQ

Those videos do very little for me. I have killed Snakes at 140-150 numerous times with even a stale Nair, and with them trying to DI. You're either over exaggerating or ********. <_<

 

[6Mizu]

mmmmm.....don't think so.
And that is true (about PS) is it not?
Also, I do not think the snakes you have fought in the past were DIing correctly.

I'll be back w/ some snakes hopefully to help us out.

 

[jjvirus]

Also, I do not think the snakes you have fought in the past were DIing correctly.

G-Reg, Candy, K9, ect. don't know how to DI correctly? whaaa?

 

[6Mizu]

Ahhh...it helps to know what...snakes.
mmmmm..maybe....the kill percent is around.....150% to 160%

 

[AllyKnight]

Holy is by far the one who knows this Match-Up the best, whatever he says is kinda true, I still think it goes even.

 

[6Mizu]

TY Ally! (he's my Idol for Snake, next to Holy for my ROB, and MikeHAZE for my Marth).

 

[-Ran]

I feel that it is even. When Sudai and I played when we were both at our respective peaks, I never felt that either of us would win/lose because of the match up being unbalanced. Sudai was always more 'camper' in terms of mentality, and I was typically attempting to rush him down as quickly as possible. Up close, there's really nothing that Rob can do to threaten Snake after Snake is outside of a juggle-able percentage.

Snake's basic grenade game can be shut down, but if the Snake player realizes that he can just pull a grenade out during OOS moment from a projectile he can start to establish some level of stage control. This match up is pretty much dictated by the mentalities of the players and the stage and thus it's even. Yet with that said, Brawl has become increasingly percent oriented. People aren't just camping when they have a stock lead, but when they are up by 20%. If Snake isn't taking any chances and has the lead, then Rob is forced to approach.

 

[6Mizu]

60:40, Chibo and I seem to think would be okay....and maybe Holy would go along w/.... but Holy if you read this you can't consdier you self at all. I mean you fight snake pretty often.

 

[Cubone]

60:40, Chibo and I seem to think would be okay....and maybe Holy would go along w/.... but Holy if you read this you can't consdier you self at all. I mean you fight snake pretty often.

Shouldn't it be at the highest levels of play? At the highest levels of play they should know the match-up so how would you even excuse Holy.

 

[stingers]

lol wow this thread

Snake is impossible to kill, get tons of damage in by getting Snake offstage ASAP, get gimps if you can, I'm trying to learn how to footstool his C4 because that'll help alot but it's hard -.-

I almost lost to a Snake the last tourney I was at cuz I kept trying to play like it was 2008 lol. Camp as hard as possible, plank if you have to it's w/e. Go for grabs more then anything cuz Snake will just PS all your other attacks and ftilt you. SH fair is like always a bad idea don't even mention it. Camp so much. If a Snake ever grabs your gyro then rush in like crazy cuz it's one of the only times he's vulnerable. If you get him offstage ****ing pursue and don't let up, that will be 90% of the damage you deal. Save nair at any cost because its the only thing you can kill with except on BF you can get Usmashes sometimes. It's an even matchup just play really really gay.

 

[Sudai]

I'm on the record that ROB's projectiles are ******** easy to PS too. I've been saying it forever. I noticed it far to early because I used to poke people's feet/heads with lasers through their shields when they'd miss a PS on my gyro and it ate their shield. It infuriated me to no end when everyone in my state, even the scrubs, started PSing every projectile ever. -_-

 

[jjvirus]

Anyone who thinks the MU is less than 55-45 ROB should be blown up.

He's slow in the air, predictable on the ground, predictable when recovering, and racking up damage and killing is easy if you're smart about it. Main thing about this matchup is spacing. If you have that down, you'll be fine. -_-

 

[Tin Man]

Holy says some interesting things on this matchup, and in regards to the fox matchup, everyone thinnks for is easier then snake, therefore 55-45 Snake adv and 50-50 Fox.

It seems like the most logical and fair solution according to what some ppl are saying.

 

[stingers]

jj go play a snake that ps's everything you do and come back

use the gyro smart to get in opportunities for lasers and run away whole match. snake doesn't have very many ways to hit you with nades either. if he's cooking he's vulnerable, if he throws right away then you have so much time its not funny

 

[jjvirus]

I already have, Stingers. -_- I already know hwo the game goes when Snake PSds just about everything we throw, but it's still not as bad as everyone is making it out to be. <_<

 

[stingers]

Rob's Ftilt is punishable on block, Snake's is not. So much for "good spacing"

Snake can kill us at 120 with Utilt, we kill him around 180 with a fresh nair if it's spaced right and you hit with a part with good kb

If Snake ever gets a grab then you're going to eat so much % its depressing

We outcamp, that's it. Play gay, refrain from even using your A attacks until you have to because Snake will win that war.

If you get him offstage is the only time you should be aggressive

 

[jjvirus]

Where the hell are you guys getting this absurd idea of a fresh nair killing at 180? Even a stale Nair can kill a Snake at 140-150.

Gimping Snake isn't even that hard either. Last time I played G-Reg offline, game 1 he had me at last stock about 120+, he was just starting his last stock. All I had to do was read him, and WoP him until he was dead, which was around 70.

Snakes CAN PS some of our ****, but they can't PS ALL of it. I've yet to see or play a Snake that can PS 60% or more of our projectiles, and that includes Candy.

Techchasing and his tilts are the only thing that could/would make this MU difficult for us.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I've noticed Snake is getting harder and harder cause the snake metagame is improving while i think ROBs still about the same v.v From what i noticed ROB's gotta camp and pick and chose when he decides to apporach cause apporaching snake is scary due to his tilts and dthrow of death :C