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ROB Community Guide

ccst

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
632
Location
Sweden
Switch FC
4825-3626-0014
Phew, finally read the whole giude, it helped me quite much. Thanks! ([^^]
 

GwJ

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
5,834
Location
Pennsylvania
NNID
Baghul
Anything need to be added/updated? I'll grab Mike's stuff hopefully tomorrow night.

edit: Done, here's what was changed:

I added the speed UpB AT (I'll link to Chibo's video once I find it and I'll also make an animated gif of it)
Added hitbox images to: Ftilt, Utilt, Dtilt, Fsmash, Usmash, Dsmash, Fair, Bair, Uair, Dair Nair
I separated the moveset from the Summary section and added a new section (There's five now)
Added wavebouncing
Frame data fixed
Changed the links in the beginning to reflect new threads


There may have been more, but that's all I remember.
 

Veril

Frame Savant
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,062
Location
Kent Lakes, New York
iirc the first actionable frame for Rob's upair is 53, not 52.

Also just to add something that I don't think was mentioned: Rob is airborne for 49 frames from a SH, 75 frames from a fullhop, and has a jump start of 5 (thus landing on frame 55/81 normally from a SH/FH)
 

GwJ

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
5,834
Location
Pennsylvania
NNID
Baghul
Thanks Veril, Ill update when I get to my computer tomorrow. By jump start, you're saying the time ittakes
ROB to actually jump right?
 

Sudai

Stuff here
Joined
Feb 14, 2006
Messages
7,026
Location
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
If it's the same thing it was in Melee, it's the frames between inputting a jump command and the character leaving the ground, so yes. I can't believe we really only have a 5 frame jump though. That's faster than most Melee characters.
 

Veril

Frame Savant
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,062
Location
Kent Lakes, New York
If it's the same thing it was in Melee, it's the frames between inputting a jump command and the character leaving the ground, so yes. I can't believe we really only have a 5 frame jump though. That's faster than most Melee characters.
jumpstart ranges from 4 frames to 9 depending on character in Brawl. 5 is a common value actually.
 

Sudai

Stuff here
Joined
Feb 14, 2006
Messages
7,026
Location
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
jumpstart ranges from 4 frames to 9 depending on character in Brawl. 5 is a common value actually.
I mean, I believe it, it just doesn't feel like it. lol

I'm not 100% sure but I'm pretty sure the average was 6 frames back in Melee (Fox at 4 being the fastest) so it just surprised me is all.

Also, Veril, do you just search for "frames" all the time or something? lol
 

Veril

Frame Savant
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,062
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Kent Lakes, New York
II'm not 100% sure but I'm pretty sure the average was 6 frames back in Melee (Fox at 4 being the fastest) so it just surprised me is all.

Also, Veril, do you just search for "frames" all the time or something? lol
The average jumpstart in vBrawl is just slightly over 5.2... I'm only 3 characters away from having everyone's SH and FH permutations as well as all the first actionable frames for every aerial... so I've been going through frame data threads that aren't total fail and either correcting what's wrong (Hotgarbage's value for MK's SH is wrong for example but I can't change that until Omni transfers OP of the MK frame data thread to me, the Pit frame data thread had a few incorrect FAF's and the wrong jumpstart, the Link frame data on AiB didn't have the nair FAF, etc).

I don't search for frame data... often. My personal data collection is so much better than what's on smashboards its not even funny. What's keeping me from posting it atm is... spending my time actually completing it and getting really in depth data. That and having a job and the summer class which is about to start >.>

If you meant do I find and analyze frame data a completely excessive amount... yes. That is true. The amount of time I put into being the top frame expert is comparable to the amount of work people put into being a world class player and then some (over a thousand hours now easily considering the insane amount of testing I did for modding projects). The Cape is the only person right now who comes close, though there are very notable data experts like Kirk and Rocketpsi. I don't know nearly as much about melee... I'm nowhere near a frame expert for that game.


On topic for Rob, who were those throws tested on? I'll try to dig up my old Rob throw data cause I think its off. Keep in mind if you (or whoever, credits?) used Mario for throw testing any ∂W throws will have inaccurate data and I know some of Rob's throws were ∂W.
 

Veril

Frame Savant
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,062
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Kent Lakes, New York
I'm 90% sure I tested on bowser, I didn't know character choice mattered.
Yes, character choice does matter. All of Rob's throws are ∂W, ie weight dependent. That means that the key points of throw frame data (release frame and first actionable frame) are derived by multiplying the base value with character weight. Throws can be weight independent, or static, in which case the frrame breakdown is identical for everyone.

Lucario has a weight value of 1, thus all throw tests should be initially performed with Lucario (or Ivysaur). You can then multiply the release and first actionable frame by individual character weight modifiers to get the accurate frame breakdown.


Bowser has the highest w value. All your throw data is off if you used him sadly :(

I'll give you better throw data when I test vBrawl Rob's throws (not super high priority but I'll get around to it).
 
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
7,190
Eh, I'd be glad to test ROB's throw data. I'll read through your throw data thread Veril to get an idea of it. Though no promises. We're having company over for who-knows-how-long, so I'm not sure when I could get around to it.
 

CT Chia

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
24,416
Location
Philadelphia
yea i remember people arguing with me saying robs uair doesnt do 20 some damage! and im like :p

its why i always spam it like crazy, its such a ridiculously powerful move for what it is
 

Xebenkeck

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
1,636
Location
My Head
So you guys have gyro cancelling in the OP, yet you don't tell how to do it, care to elaborate, i've been playing ROB a lot recently so it be nice to know.
 

Silhouette

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
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Springfield/Athens, OH

ccst

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
632
Location
Sweden
Switch FC
4825-3626-0014
Oh, this is great information (sorry for bumping)!
 

Jeffbelittle

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 10, 2012
Messages
90
This is so abritrary (butchered spelling) since the text supports the means but:

In most character guides, they use the character's icon / 5 to say how useful/often you should be using a move. Could you do that with his moves?

It's just that you talk up even the weaker moves like there's a purpose, so I don't know where to rank what and find myself in confusion of whether I should short up NAIR or Dsmash because of it (and plenty of other examples)
 

GwJ

Smash Hero
Joined
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5,834
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Baghul
Holy blast from the past.

Perhaps someone else could explain it better than me, but I'm not really fond of giving ranks to moves because that conditions yourself to always use one move over another which makes you predictable. You're better off knowing what they're good for and leaving it at that as opposed to me saying "SH Nair is better than Dsmash" because that simply isn't always true and having that mindset will make you easy to read.

On a side note: Dsmash all day.
 

Mister Eric

Twitch.tv/MisterbeepEric Twitter: @MisterbeepEric
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Yeah don't worry about ranking them. Just know when and where to use each. Get a feel for the range, behavior, dmg, etc of the move and act accordingly
 

GwJ

Smash Hero
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Baghul
But most importantly, use Side B a lot. It's an excellent spacing move and it reflects.

:troll:
 

TeeVee

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
1,570
before you are good enough to make good reads on a consistent basis, you should base your playstyle around -

lazer/gyro spam when they are outside of f tilt range
f tilt when they are outside of d smash range
spot dodge d smash when they are inside of f tilt range

punish with dsmash out of shield
punish with fair out of shield if they outside of d smash range

pressure people who are on top of platforms with short hop up airs
pressure people who are getting up from the ledge with short hop bairs (or nair if they are in kill range)

if you are starting to get juggled, up b instantly and fly off stage and grab onto the ledge instead of trying to air dodge to the ground



this is just the extreme basics of when to use the most useful rob moves
 

DandyLion

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
3
I have been a long time lurker in the smash community, but I decided to make an account so that I could perhaps suggest an additional tip.

As ROB I find this trick to be useful. When an airborn opponent is about to land in front of me, I pull out the top and I make sure to fire it early so that it lands closely behind them and spins on the ground. From there the point is to hit them into it with most likely a well spaced side tilt when they try to approach directly following their landing. The little stun from hitting the spinning top is usually enough to buy you another free hit on them. Obviously, this technique comes in many variations and is not foolproof.
 

sneakytako

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
1,817
Location
Cincinnati OH
I was re-reading the OP for the first time in a long time, while reading the section on YI I totally disagree. Yoshi's is my CP of choice other than DK/Sonic/Olimar/Snake, I beat diddys/spacies/marths on that stage all the time. I might make a write up on it later.
 
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