Meta Road to Stardom - Mario Metagame Thread (v1.1.1)

[DunnoBro]

Tested something, similar to how other charge moves are strongest just before full charge, fludd has it's own interesting property.

It doesn't push overall harder, however it does push them less high and more horizontal, resulting in overall better positioning.

 

[DunnoBro]

With the beefy smash dudes vid on it, I thought now would be a good time to post my findings and thoughts on utilizing footstools for ledge coverage. It isn't complete and I haven't been practicing or labbing at all lately, but I liked what I saw when I did look into it, so perhaps my findings can help someone reading this.

There's a few major factors why fake trump + ledge jump footstooling is likely a very worthwhile option to look into for mario mains(moreso than most characters)

Spoiler

Mario has unique qualities and tools to make this more appealing. Even his weaknesses contribute to it.

1: Kill confirms off ledge trumps

2: Grab and usmash cover MOST buffered anti-trump options with killing options.

3: Has the mobility to pressure with trump as an option at most ranges.

*There is a stark minority of characters have all these options. Without all three, fake trumps are far less effective.

4: FLUDD provides mario with the unique ability to FORCE a ledge grab in situations no other character could.

And here's the big one...

5: Super Trump Punch (run off SJP to ledge snap) inherently deals with counter-fake trump options.

For those unfamiliar: Know how mario mains use cape to ledge trump easily? Well, they can use SJP similarly.

While a slightly harder input, it is faster than cape trump, provides no visual or audio cues different than a regular trump...

AND PROVIDES AN INSTANT FRAME 3 HITBOX WHILE GRABBING THE LEDGE

This means that, without even trying... Mario covers ledge drop/rising options along with hang.

This hitbox stage spikes. Kills instantly at high percent. And often as they're using it to jump, just kills them at most percents.

Why is this important? Well, because it forces EVERYONE to take a standard ledge option. If they refuse, they either kept hanging to get trumped, or dropped down and likely got stage spiked.

Ex. Bayo, Fox, M2, Diddy, Pikachu, ZSS, etc have burst mobility options which let them often opt out of the normal options while reclaiming stage control. Effectively giving them another option to worry about. If you go for a non-punch trump you'll just grab the ledge while they get stage control. Ouch!

Using this prevents that. It also punishes just drop down aerials, similar to dash attack.

It also CAN cover ledge jump/attack but doesn't stage spike so not super helpful. Neat though.

All that said, here's the optimal coverage options I think mario mains should utilize. You can't just super trump punch, feign trumps, or pressure the other options... You need to do everything.

1: ALWAYS Super Trump Punch when actually ledge drop trumping. It takes getting used to, but overall it's an easier input than pivot usmash. (Though you 100% need tap jump off)

2: After a failed attempt to footstool their ledge jump, be prepared to buffer another option.

-Dair still catches options (including jump and hang) but with somewhat less reward/consistency and doesn't allow you to keep much stage control. Many options beat it but the reward is good at low percent.

*CAN confirm into dsmash on standard, and usmash on rolls but requires the right starting hitbox. As well as grabs on ledge jumps... Don't count on it.

-Fireball is a safer option which allows you to maintain more stage control, still pressure them, but not really give much reward.

-Fludd is mainly for when the other two options just aren't worth doing (time to kill) It generates slight advantage by making it easier to force another ledge grab and kill opportunity later, while still allowing for mindgames with the charge such as:

*Rolling to grab a standard get-up
*Canceling into usmash to punish roll
*Letting fludd itself go to cover ledge jump/rising options and hopefully set-up for a regrab punish.

(Fair and nair are also fine options, but mainly at mid-percents. To spike or set up for jab locks.)

3: If there's no time for a guaranteed trump (very often) just holding shield / charging fludd (possibly rolling to ledge) to bait for grab/usmash/trump is usually better because.

TRUMP > BAIR ISN'T GUARANTEED UNLESS YOU GRABBED IT ALMOST IMMEDIATELY AFTER THEY DID.

The more invincibility the opponent had left, the sooner you can let go of the ledge and follow-up. So if you trump someone in this situation, don't rely too heavily on bair. Think about how to trap them on their regrab or high recovery.

So if you know you can't threaten the trump confirm by getting there in-time, it's often better to do this. As the SJP will just stage spike them if they ran out of invincibility, mitigating that issue. You can react to standard/roll, and usmash covers ledge jump and rising options if you're already turned around.


TL;DR: Mario possibly has the best tools for making fake trump + footstool consistent. While also currently lacking a decent ledge jump punish which makes the concept even more appealing.

 

[DunnoBro]

A little thing but might help mario mains to know:

Cloud also has a similar mechanic to Super Trump Punch, in that he can run-off ledge snap with his own upspecial. (No limit)

It's the same input, though instead of a hitbox it just minimizes the chance of overshooting. (A BIG issue for no limit cloud)

*If Cloud has limit, he should never be trumping anyway as he covers more options with stage control. (Mainly blade beam if they hold too long and dair/aerial if they get up immediately.)

Further concreting the theory that cloud is BAR NONE; The best co-main/secondary to mario. (YES. MORESO THAN OTHER CHARACTERS!)

So in addition to superb MU coverage, they also allow you character diversity while conditioning you to use the unique mechanics they share.

 

[BSP]

DunnoBro seeing you exercise these options in some matches would go a long way.

While I'm making a post, has anyone done any looking into rage Dair %s? I was told it's not worth the effort, but I strongly disagree, at least for characters that don't have F1 options to escape Dair regardless of rage. When you KNOW when they're stuck, that can change your follow up tree immensely + you'll know when to go for Dthrow -> Uair -> Dair cheese when you have sufficient rage.

 

[DunnoBro]

meh redacted