Rising out from the Virtual Boy Ashes, Harry for SSB4!

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BluePikmin11

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#1
Harry
Game: Teleroboxer (Virtual Boy 1995)​
Harry the Robot is a character from an obscure fighting game called Teleroboxer. The game takes place in the 22th century where humans can control robots to punch and snab each other in a game of boxing. Harry is controlled by a human, as they overcome many other robots in many types of difficulties.​
Harry could represent Nintendo's first 3D platform, as an obscure, but important part of history. He fits right into the Smash criteria, although he probably won't have lots of players wanting to buy the game. Again he is an important part of Nintendo's time, as his game is the most well known on this system. He has the chance of being the next WTF in the next Smash Bros game, being unique for being a fighting bot (Unlike R.O.B., Harry is humonoid shape).​
What his Attributes could be:​
Harry is a unique character himself, he has moves that are powerful enough to KO an opponent on the low 80%s. Although he lacks agility and big jumps, he has a slightly defensive super armor that accompanies him greatly to not feel the weakest attacks. Mastering Harry requires plenty of strategy. (to be continued..)​
Size: First things first, his size will obviously be scaled down to Ganondorf's height.​
Weight: I think he could be pretty heavy (probably around Wario's).​
Speed: He'd probably be very slow, but slightly faster than Bowser.​
Jump: He has very low jumps, probably near Bowser's.​
(to be continued..)​
Gameplay of Teleroboxer:​
Old Brawl Support Thread for Harry:​
Music of Teleroboxer:​

Commercial for Teleroboxer:​
I will add more stuff into Harry's moveset soon, in the meanwhile discuss about Harry here.​
Zhadgon's Moveset​
I was thinking in a new moveset potential with Harry.​
Harry start with 120% of strength each time he gets 50% damage his abilities are reduced 10% for each 50% loss.​

Standard B (Final Boss Rage): Harry goes in defense pose each time Harry gets hit (direct or projectile) in this pose he accumulate rage power at three hits he becomes so angry that its charged of fury, the next time you press B he unleash a big powerful fist that make 35% of damage to the enemy. Each time Harry receive damage in the defense pose is reduced in half, it can be direct hit from a enemy or any projectile. Interesting facts each time Harry accumulates hits he starts turning red and black and increase in those colors with more hits (in allusion of the Virtual Boy).​

Inspiration for this move, I remember as a kid that a lot of bosses when they take damage start going faster and change they're pattern and even become angry so thats where my inspiration comes.​

Up B (Kangaroo Hit): Harry charges his fists from a few seconds after the charge he unleash a deadly uppercut making him jump, function of recovery move and hard hit damage of 25%.​

Inspiration: One of his enemies was a Kangaroo.​

Side B (Feline Mix): Harry starts going forward making a mix of hits:​
S(side) + S(side) + S(side) (Harry start with a right hit, then with a left hit to finish again with a left hit) (low damage).​
S(side) + S(side) + S(up) (Harry start with a right hit, then with a left hit and finish with a uppercut with the right) (medium damage).​
S(side) + S(side) + S(down) (Harry send a right hit, then a left hit to finish with a duck) (low damage with counter).​
S(side) + S(side) + S(normal) (Harry start with a right hit, then a left hit and finish with a right) (heavy damage but really slow).​

Inspiration: One of his enemies was a Cat.​

Down B (Iron Wall): Harry get a high defense with his two arms up, every missile or object that is send flying towards him is reduced in a half and don´t produce rebound, if a enemy hits him with his guard up the enemy is stunned for two seconds so Harry can start a combo with his specials.​

Inspiration: A high defense move with a open for a combo for his specials.​
Supporters from the 21th century:​
-BluePikmin11​
- Zhadgon​
- SuperBrawler​
- Capps​
-Keybladeguy​
Signatures:​
By Rasumii​
By Zhadgon​
 

FalKoopa

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#3
Supporters from the 20th
century:
-BluePikmin11​
You mean 21st century. ;)

On topic, he... looks like a robotic version of Little Mac.

So, MAYBE a sticker and/or a trophy. I shouldn't expect anything more.
 
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#5
When Geno fuses with Knuckle Joe, more like.


I've been interested in Telerobox lately.. Wish I could play it sometime too. I wouldn't mind him, as long as Little Mac gets in first. :( (Wouldn´t mind him as a clone, even, but I always vote for a unique moveset). So I say why not? Virtual Boy would do well with a representative... So it's either him or Nester. And I don't think Nester is likely at ALL.
 

Zhadgon

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#13
I love him, he can represent the Virtual Boy like the OP say and no one can fill more the WTF, obscure and retro character, especially if Sakurai is thinking on continuing the tradition to bring this type of characters that is connected to a obscure console or a peripheral. And the moveset can be something really unique, by the way his height can be between Ganondorf and Bowser, I imagine his type of fighting style would be a lot of ground work with little to nothing in the air, he can be very fast (no fast as Metakinght more like Link heavyweight) with a lot of power and resistance.
.n_n.
 

Hank Hill

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#15
If any boxer should get in first, it should be Little Mac.

Also, the Virtual Boy isn't so important to Nintendo that it influences characters getting into the game.
 

jaytalks

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#16
I think it would be nice for the Virtual Boy to be represented. It's old enough to be retro now so Harry could be a retro rep.

Smash is about celebrating Nintendo's history; the good and the bad.
 

Zhadgon

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#17
If any boxer should get in first, it should be Little Mac.

Also, the Virtual Boy isn't so important to Nintendo that it influences characters getting into the game.
And where did we say something in this thread about Harry being first over Little Mac. I can´t see the problem that both of them coexist in the same game at the same time.

How do you know what is important or what isn´t for the history of Nintendo? Like I say in my preview post, Sakurai tends to add one retro character that represents an old console or a peripheral why shouldn´t the Virtual Boy be considered, please explain me.

.n_n.
 

N3ON

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#18
How do you know what is important or what isn´t for the history of Nintendo? Like I say in my preview post, Sakurai tends to add one retro character that represents an old console or a peripheral why shouldn´t the Virtual Boy be considered, please explain me.
Because Nintendo has made every attempt to forget it and drive it from peoples' minds, as well as the fact that the games on it had very limited exposure, which is hardly a factor in their favour. Not to mention the retro Sakurai has referenced this time he described as being from a series that had the potential for a full-scale revival similar to Uprising, which... is unlikely for Teleroboxer, to say the least. Also, Sakurai has never once made mention of "classic characters" (as he calls them) from other than the NES era, so there's no guarantee he even views VB characters in the same light as previous retros. Lastly, ROB and G&W had roles much larger in relation to their system than a protagonist in a sole game, like Harry.

So yeah, it's important to the history of Nintendo, for all the wrong reasons. And Sakurai tends to celebrate the success of Nintendo's past in the roster, not the failures.
 

Zhadgon

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#19
Because Nintendo has made every attempt to forget it and drive it from peoples' minds, as well as the fact that the games on it had very limited exposure, which is hardly a factor in their favour. Not to mention the retro Sakurai has referenced this time he described as being from a series that had the potential for a full-scale revival similar to Uprising, which... is unlikely for Teleroboxer, to say the least. Also, Sakurai has never once made mention of "classic characters" (as he calls them) from other than the NES era, so there's no guarantee he even views VB characters in the same light as previous retros. Lastly, ROB and G&W had roles much larger in relation to their system than a protagonist in a sole game, like Harry.

So yeah, it's important to the history of Nintendo, for all the wrong reasons. And Sakurai tends to celebrate the success of Nintendo's past in the roster, not the failures.

But even if Nintendo tries to forget about it in very possible way, it will still be remind by the people (just like right now) and please can you link me the interview or article where Sakurai hints that the next retro character has the potential to a full-scale revival?

Also lets not forget about Melee with Ice Climbers and Mr. G&W (neither of those characters has the potential to a full scale revival at least Nintendo hasn´t hint anything like that for both franchises) and now lets see Brawl with Pit and R.O.B. (the first did get a revival, the second one for obvious reasons not, but make it because of the history that has with Nintendo).

So tell me why can´t Harry end in a position like Mr. G&W, Ice Climbers or even R.O.B. Maybe you don´t consider Teleroboxer as a game that have potential for a new entry but I can see the game fit very well with the 3DS (you know because the technology has improved from the past decade and now Harry once again can be in a console that support 3D).

And obviously that Virtual Boy if ever gets a representative in Smash it will not be the system like R.O.B. for obvious reasons, so the only alternative should go with a exclusive game for the console in this case Teleroboxer that is one of the most important and only of the few unique IP´s from that system, it would be like Mr. G&W representing the G&W series but in this case Harry with the Virtual Boy.

You can consider the Virtual Boy a failure but I think more about it like a experience for Nintendo to learn and don´t do the same mistake twice, you know learn from the past to get a better future. The occidental thinking seems the mistakes as failures and are punished very hard, but then if you don´t make mistakes how can you improve if you never risk to get better because of bad decisions, if you make a mistake and improve on it gets you get better results but if you make a mistake twice then you condone yourself to a worst problem. Nintendo being a company from the west has other mentality about failures and consider them in a different way than the east.

.n_n.
 

N3ON

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#20
But even if Nintendo tries to forget about it in very possible way, it will still be remind by the people (just like right now)
Sure, there will always be a subset of people that remember the Virtual Boy, but the further away we get from when it was on the market, the fewer people will remember it, especially since Nintendo brings it up only on rare occasions nowadays.

and please can you link me the interview or article where Sakurai hints that the next retro character has the potential to a full-scale revival?
I don't have the specific quote, but when posed the question if there was another character to experience a series revival like Pit, Sakurai was planning to include them in the next Smash game. The interview in question is from the January 2012 Nintendo Power I believe, if you'd like to search for it.

Also lets not forget about Melee with Ice Climbers and Mr. G&W (neither of those characters has the potential to a full scale revival at least Nintendo hasn´t hint anything like that for both franchises) and now lets see Brawl with Pit and R.O.B. (the first did get a revival, the second one for obvious reasons not, but make it because of the history that has with Nintendo).
Yes, that's why I said the retro Sakurai referenced this time, not every time. He only said it in reference to Smash 4, not Melee or Brawl.

So tell me why can´t Harry end in a position like Mr. G&W, Ice Climbers or even R.O.B. Maybe you don´t consider Teleroboxer as a game that have potential for a new entry but I can see the game fit very well with the 3DS (you know because the technology has improved from the past decade and now Harry once again can be in a console that support 3D).
As for G&W and ROB, chances are they were chosen because of their significant impact on Nintendo's history, one as the seminal character of the Game & Watch series of games, and the other as the reason the NES was able to find success in the west. A one-time character from a largely forgotten game is not in the same league as these two, and if included, it wouldn't be for his positive impact on Nintendo. As for Ice Climbers, he could end up in that position, but only if by "classic character" Sakurai means "retro" as we view it, and not as he's shown to mean it in the past, which is solely with NES-era characters. Also, even if Harry did qualify as a "classic character" in Sakurai's mind, so would many other characters that Harry has no real edge over. So yeah... in that situation he'd hypothetically be technically eligible for that spot, but he'd be far from the most likely candidate. However there's no reason to believe Sakurai even categorizes him as a "classic character", he's never even made reference to SNES-era characters as "classic". Only ones from the NES time era.

And obviously that Virtual Boy if ever gets a representative in Smash it will not be the system like R.O.B. for obvious reasons, so the only alternative should go with a exclusive game for the console in this case Teleroboxer that is one of the most important and only of the few unique IP´s from that system, it would be like Mr. G&W representing the G&W series but in this case Harry with the Virtual Boy.
Sure... if VB gets a rep, Harry would be a good choice. Probably the best choice. But there's absolutely no proof or precedent for Sakurai to look for a "Virtual Boy rep". He hasn't looked for a "Game Boy rep", he hasn't looked for a "SNES rep", he hasn't looked for a "Wii Rep", he hasn't even looked for a "NES Rep" by his definition. He's looked for "classic characters" which he seems to define as those from the NES era.

And the parallel to Mr. G&W is a bit flawed. Harry would be a character from the VB, sure. That's doesn't mean he'd represent the VB in the same way Mr. G&W represents the G&W. As Mr. G&W draws from many actual G&W titles and appears in many of them, he's really a composite of the G&W itself, which is why he makes for a good representation of it. Harry is just a character from one game that happens to be on the VB.

You can consider the Virtual Boy a failure but I think more about it like a experience for Nintendo to learn and don´t do the same mistake twice, you know learn from the past to get a better future. The occidental thinking seems the mistakes as failures and are punished very hard, but then if you don´t make mistakes how can you improve if you never risk to get better because of bad decisions, if you make a mistake and improve on it gets you get better results but if you make a mistake twice then you condone yourself to a worst problem. Nintendo being a company from the west has other mentality about failures and consider them in a different way than the east.
It's not a matter of east vs. west. When speaking about commercial products it's a matter of commercial business, and even if Nintendo learned from the Virtual Boy's mistakes, that by no means exempts the Virtual Boy from being classified as a horrible failure. Nintendo took it off the market in less than a year, they knew it was a failure as much as anybody. In an interview with Iwata, Miyamoto, and Itoi, all three called the Virtual Boy a failure. Can't get more conclusive than that.
 

CalumG

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#21
I don't think it matters so much that Nintendo consider the Virtual Boy a failure because even if they do, Sakurai seems to be the exception to the rule - unlike most people who work at or for Nintendo, Sakurai is never afraid to give reference to the VB:




I think the far bigger issue is that, like N3ON said, Teleroboxer isn't a particularly good representative of the Virtual Boy as a whole, unlike the positions filled by Mr. Game and Watch and ROB. Teleroboxer wasn't a particularly standout game, it didn't do spectacularly in reviews and it wasn't even the best-selling title on the Virtual Boy, which wouldn't have been a tough record to break considering it only really had 8 or 9 other games to compete against.

If Virtual Boy needs representation, then it can be represented by something more fitting, surely - maybe an item or perhaps even a stage (complete with entirely black-and-red graphics)?
 

N3ON

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#22
Yeah, of course Sakurai, being the Nintendo fan he is, will give credence to the existence of the Virtual Boy, but look at the extent he's given it attention... in the background of one section among all of Nintendo's other systems, in a Chronicle that lists all of Nintendo's games, where it would actually be inaccurate if he left out the Virtual Boy, and iirc a handful of stickers. But there's a difference between acknowledging, which is what Sakurai does, and actually focusing on, which would be adding a VB character, something I very much doubt Sakurai would do, not because like Nintendo he just wants to forget about it, but mostly because of the multitude of better character choices.
 

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#24
Sure... if VB gets a rep, Harry would be a good choice. Probably the best choice. But there's absolutely no proof or precedent for Sakurai to look for a "Virtual Boy rep". He hasn't looked for a "Game Boy rep", he hasn't looked for a "SNES rep", he hasn't looked for a "Wii Rep", he hasn't even looked for a "NES Rep" by his definition. He's looked for "classic characters" which he seems to define as those from the NES era.
.
What do you call Wii Fit Trainer?
 

Zhadgon

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#25
Sure, there will always be a subset of people that remember the Virtual Boy, but the further away we get from when it was on the market, the fewer people will remember it, especially since Nintendo brings it up only on rare occasions nowadays.
And even then the people will still remember the Virtual Boy. It will be a piece of history that never will be forgotten, like a country and its story, it will be remembered for the good and for the bad even if they try to erase it.

I don't have the specific quote, but when posed the question if there was another character to experience a series revival like Pit, Sakurai was planning to include them in the next Smash game. The interview in question is from the January 2012 Nintendo Power I believe, if you'd like to search for it.
Thanks I will look for it.

Yes, that's why I said the retro Sakurai referenced this time, not every time. He only said it in reference to Smash 4, not Melee or Brawl.
So then we should expect only one retro character? Is what are you saying? So no more a pair of one retro character and one obscure and forgotten character?

As for G&W and ROB, chances are they were chosen because of their significant impact on Nintendo's history, one as the seminal character of the Game & Watch series of games, and the other as the reason the NES was able to find success in the west. A one-time character from a largely forgotten game is not in the same league as these two, and if included, it wouldn't be for his positive impact on Nintendo. As for Ice Climbers, he could end up in that position, but only if by "classic character" Sakurai means "retro" as we view it, and not as he's shown to mean it in the past, which is solely with NES-era characters. Also, even if Harry did qualify as a "classic character" in Sakurai's mind, so would many other characters that Harry has no real edge over. So yeah... in that situation he'd hypothetically be technically eligible for that spot, but he'd be far from the most likely candidate. However there's no reason to believe Sakurai even categorizes him as a "classic character", he's never even made reference to SNES-era characters as "classic". Only ones from the NES time era.
Can you tell me if Sakurai has ever mention SNES characters in a interview, how it calls that particular character? Old, classic, retro, obscure? You say many other characters have an edge over him but lets think for a moment, Which classic, retro character can have an edge over Harry? Sheriff, Mach Rider, Donbe and Hikari, Hakkun, Prince Sable, Lip and many more, there is a reason many of those characters have never get a release in recent years (more than 10 years to be precisely) because for one they were not a successful hit, Nintendo didn' t seem to put more resources in continuing the series or they were replaced to appeal a western or eastern audience with a more iconic character or franchise in their game, making the character obsolete. The reason that I support Harry is because his first game was in the Virtual Boy a console that was failure and that didn' t have many years to promote the series, it would be interesting if they give an original IP for the Virtual Boy a second chance to get a new game and see if say character can appeal more to the recent crowd, especially with better graphics and like it or not the theme of Teleroboxer is almost the same as Real Steel a commercial movie (with the recent years of the success in making robots a hit in the movies, Transformers, Titans of Pacific and many more) I think it could get new followers and even new life to the series.

Sure... if VB gets a rep, Harry would be a good choice. Probably the best choice. But there's absolutely no proof or precedent for Sakurai to look for a "Virtual Boy rep". He hasn't looked for a "Game Boy rep", he hasn't looked for a "SNES rep", he hasn't looked for a "Wii Rep", he hasn't even looked for a "NES Rep" by his definition. He's looked for "classic characters" which he seems to define as those from the NES era.
Well the thing is a NES Rep would be obviously Mario, Link, Samus, Ice Climbers even R.O.B., for a Game Boy rep is Kirby, SNES rep would be Captain Falco, Fox, Wii rep Wii Fit Trainer, so yeah there are many Reps from many platforms thats why if Sakurai ever thinks of a Virtual Boy rep it should be Harry.

And the parallel to Mr. G&W is a bit flawed. Harry would be a character from the VB, sure. That's doesn't mean he'd represent the VB in the same way Mr. G&W represents the G&W. As Mr. G&W draws from many actual G&W titles and appears in many of them, he's really a composite of the G&W itself, which is why he makes for a good representation of it. Harry is just a character from one game that happens to be on the VB.
If you need to represent the Virtual Boy with playable character in Smash, Which character will you choose to represent the system?

It's not a matter of east vs. west. When speaking about commercial products it's a matter of commercial business, and even if Nintendo learned from the Virtual Boy's mistakes, that by no means exempts the Virtual Boy from being classified as a horrible failure. Nintendo took it off the market in less than a year, they knew it was a failure as much as anybody. In an interview with Iwata, Miyamoto, and Itoi, all three called the Virtual Boy a failure. Can't get more conclusive than that.

So what that dosen' t mean they will forget about it? It was a horrible failure but still Nintendo is alive and kicking, Virtual Boy is part of them and should be considered a big part of history from Nintendo, it means that even in failure and horrible circumstances they can learn from their mistakes and get better.

For the record Harry has been in the past in polls and if a read correctly even in one of Sakurai´s polls, so maybe by chance even if is slim it can be considered for a potential character.

.n_n.
 

N3ON

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#26
Doesn't it count that Ness was a SNES rep.
What do you call Wii Fit Trainer?

People seem to think that just appearing on a system is enough to make them a "rep". But think about it, to get in as a specific "representative" of something, they need to be chosen specifically because they were on that platform. Like how the classic characters were chosen specifically because they were classic characters. Ness wasn't chosen specifically because he was on the SNES, WFT wasn't chosen specifically because she was on the Wii (by the time Smash 4 releases she'll also have been on another console, eliminating being associated with just a sole console anyway), they were chosen because they come from popular/important series that Sakurai deemed worthy of inclusion in the roster and/or because the character itself had notable levels of popularity (moreso with Ness than WFT).
 

N3ON

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#29
And even then the people will still remember the Virtual Boy. It will be a piece of history that never will be forgotten, like a country and its story, it will be remembered for the good and for the bad even if they try to erase it.
Sure, it will never be completely forgotten, but that doesn't mean Sakurai is going to focus on it to the extent of choosing a character from one of its games.

So then we should expect only one retro character? Is what are you saying? So no more a pair of one retro character and one obscure and forgotten character?
We might only get one retro character this time, it's possible, but no, that's not what I was saying. However considering how I explained how much G&W and ROB differed from Harry, I assumed you'd be able to see how he wouldn't get in as the successor to them. If Sakurai prioritized finding an obscure and forgotten character above a character with large important ties to Nintendo's history, he'd have picked choices a lot more obscure than G&W and ROB (yes, there are Nintendo characters more obscure and forgotten than G&W and ROB), especially ROB, considering after MKDS he was once again fairly well-known. He'd have picked Sky Skipper, or Goku, or Mr. Stevenson, or yes, Harry, but he's shown no precendent of having chosen a character merely based on their levels of obscurity, while he has shown, twice now, that characters with strong ties to Nintendo's past have been included. That's why calling them WTF characters is a bit of a misnomer, because chances are they were chosen for reasons apart from just surprise.

Can you tell me if Sakurai has ever mention SNES characters in a interview, how it calls that particular character? Old, classic, retro, obscure?
No, Sakurai has never made reference to SNES characters specifically as a whole, at least in relation to Smash. Your guess at what he'd call them is as good as mine. It is very telling that when rattling off "classic characters" he's considered in the past, no characters other than those on the NES have been mentioned.

You say many other characters have an edge over him but lets think for a moment, Which classic, retro character can have an edge over Harry? Sheriff, Mach Rider, Donbe and Hikari, Hakkun, Prince Sable, Lip and many more, there is a reason many of those characters have never get a release in recent years (more than 10 years to be precisely) because for one they were not a successful hit, Nintendo didn' t seem to put more resources in continuing the series or they were replaced to appeal a western or eastern audience with a more iconic character or franchise in their game, making the character obsolete. The reason that I support Harry is because his first game was in the Virtual Boy a console that was failure and that didn' t have many years to promote the series, it would be interesting if they give an original IP for the Virtual Boy a second chance to get a new game and see if say character can appeal more to the recent crowd, especially with better graphics and like it or not the theme of Teleroboxer is almost the same as Real Steel a commercial movie (with the recent years of the success in making robots a hit in the movies, Transformers, Titans of Pacific and many more) I think it could get new followers and even new life to the series.
First off, just because Nintendo could revive Teleroboxer doesn't mean they ever will, and certainly doesn't mean just because it could happen that gives Harry any sort of edge. Because if we're speaking of hypothetical series revivals, any character is eligible. Especially since, even though Teleroboxer never really got a chance, when it comes down to it it's still a largely unproven IP, and Nintendo, as a business, would use a more established and recognizable brand that already has a substantial market. If they wanted a new boxing game, chances are they'd go with Punch-Out, if they wanted a mech fighting game, they'd probably turn to Custom Robo. So yes, the characters you listed (well, most of the characters you listed) have an edge over Harry, not just because most of them are more popular and well-known that he is, but because in absence of popularity, Sakurai turns to series impact and character potential. Teleroboxer's overall series impact is clearly minimal at best, and as far as a boxing-oriented moveset, Little Mac is the clear choice (and you said they can both get in... but Sakurai clearly prioritizes diversity quite highly, it's fairly unlikely he'd add two pretty standard boxers in one game).

Well the thing is a NES Rep would be obviously Mario, Link, Samus, Ice Climbers even R.O.B., for a Game Boy rep is Kirby, SNES rep would be Captain Falco, Fox, Wii rep Wii Fit Trainer, so yeah there are many Reps from many platforms thats why if Sakurai ever thinks of a Virtual Boy rep it should be Harry.
Well by that logic it should be Wario them because he had the best VB game. Or Mario because he had the most VB games. Generally people don't think of characters who have had appearances on multiple systems as good reps for a single system. Ofc the whole "rep" idea in the first place is a bit misguided, as people tend to quite arbitrarily make up "reps" that Sakurai never would... like a VB rep.

If you need to represent the Virtual Boy with playable character in Smash, Which character will you choose to represent the system?
Harry. That doesn't mean he's in the same situation as G&W, which is all I was saying. Because G&W is actually a representation of his whole system, while Harry is just a single character from a single game. However the VB doesn't have any characters equivalent to G&W, most systems don't, so then really you'd have to turn to the character most closely associated with just the VB, which would be Harry.

But assuming there will be a "VB rep" in the first place is a flawed way of thinking.

So what that dosen' t mean they will forget about it? It was a horrible failure but still Nintendo is alive and kicking, Virtual Boy is part of them and should be considered a big part of history from Nintendo, it means that even in failure and horrible circumstances they can learn from their mistakes and get better.
It means Sakurai won't focus on it in Smash because due to it's short lifespan it didn't provide any characters that merit inclusion nearly as much as many others.

For the record Harry has been in the past in polls and if a read correctly even in one of Sakurai´s polls, so maybe by chance even if is slim it can be considered for a potential character.
I'm quite curious as to which polls Harry has appeared in before. A mention by a fan in the Brawl letters isn't a place on the poll btw.
 

jaytalks

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#30
Adam Riley: You have mentioned how you like to breathe new life into forgotten franchises. Now that Kid Icarus has been completed, what other old classic would you like to look at? Ice Climbers, Star Tropics, MoleMania…or something non-Nintendo?
Sakurai: "I am planning on doing my best to bring old characters back in Smash Bros. From that perspective, I am probably in the most fortunate position in the world."
http://www.cubed3.com/news/16920
So technically, it sounds to me the interviewer brought in the reviving a series bit. From my perspective, Sakurai technically is independent from Nintendo, so I do think has any obligation to bring any franchise back to prominence. Kid Icarus' revival probably has more to do with Sakurai's own creativity and artistic sense (it's a game he directed) rather than some intention to specifically bring back old franchises. After all, the game is completely different the NES classic.

I think Harry has a low chance, but it would be nice to see. We have no idea what old characters mean. The term retro is changing as time progresses. He knows what the franchise is because there's music in the game.

I don't think Harry will be chosen specifically as VB rep, but for fans he will have that purpose. Harry will be chosen for the same reason any other retro character is chosen: Sakurai sees potential.

On the Virtual Boy: Yeah, it's look upon least favorably out of all Nintendo consoles. It gets the least representation not out of some maligning of the console, but because it didn't have that many games or characters from games. The games it has have a very small audience. But Sakurai, within the context of Smash, does not shy away from history. But in the grand schemes of things, the Virtual Boy did not have a big impact in Nintendo history as well.

In short: It's not impossible. Harry could be a retro rep. The Virtual Boy is not looked upon favorably, but its still acknowledge for its small role in Nintendo's history.
 

N3ON

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#31
That's not the segment I was talking about. In it, Sakurai actually references that's he thinking of including a character that could be seen as having a revival specifically compared to Uprising (though he is prompted by the interviewer again).

I think Harry has a low chance, but it would be nice to see. We have no idea what old characters mean. The term retro is changing as time progresses. He knows what the franchise is because there's music in the game.
True, but Sakurai has never used the word retro, at least not to my knowledge. He's only used "classic" and only given examples of "classic characters" with NES characters. It's entirely possible, even likely, that we have a different view of "retro" than he does.

I don't think Harry will be chosen specifically as VB rep, but for fans he will have that purpose. Harry will be chosen for the same reason any other retro character is chosen: Sakurai sees potential.
Right, but at least previously Sakurai has looked specifically for a "classic" character before he even had a specific one in mind. So he did designate a spot for a "retro" character (by his definition) before he even decided the character. Sure, they still need potential, but I doubt Sakurai goes looking for a VB character in the first place.
 

jaytalks

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#32
That's not the segment I was talking about. In it, Sakurai actually references that's he thinking of including a character that could be seen as having a revival specifically compared to Uprising (though he is prompted by the interviewer again).


True, but Sakurai has never used the word retro, at least not to my knowledge. He's only used "classic" and only given examples of "classic characters" with NES characters. It's entirely possible, even likely, that we have a different view of "retro" than he does.


Right, but at least previously Sakurai has looked specifically for a "classic" character before he even had a specific one in mind. So he did designate a spot for a "retro" character (by his definition) before he even decided the character. Sure, they still need potential, but I doubt Sakurai goes looking for a VB character in the first place.
yeah I know what interview you are talking about now. I can't find it at the moment though.

Yeah he's never used retro. I think we do have a different idea of retro. Even classic and old change with the time. If in fact in this interview, Sakurai names NES characters, than I will stand corrected, but even the term classic can change with time. SNES when 64 or even maybe with Melee was not "classic." Certain games within their franchise were, but not the SNES in itself. But now, the SNES is considered classic.

I don't get your last point. Are you saying he's looked for a classic character before actually knowing which one he would pick? I don't think that's in dispute. I doubt Sakurai will look specifically for a VB character, but I can imagine him thinking about the various games Nintendo has produced. Teleroboxer has been referenced in Smash, so he probably knows the characters exist.

Again, I doubt Harry will make it, but I would love to see his inclusion.
 

Zhadgon

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#33
Sure, it will never be completely forgotten, but that doesn't mean Sakurai is going to focus on it to the extent of choosing a character from one of its games.
I think is up to the air, you say he will not choose that decision, I say maybe he has considered the idea and end up using it. I see it something like 90% what you say and 10% what I say, for the simple reason that we don´t know this time around how the decisions of Sakurai will affect this new entry, especially that we need to consider the introduction of Villager, in Brawl he didn´t consider a character for that series because it was pacific. I´m rooting for that 10% or less.

We might only get one retro character this time, it's possible, but no, that's not what I was saying. However considering how I explained how much G&W and ROB differed from Harry, I assumed you'd be able to see how he wouldn't get in as the successor to them. If Sakurai prioritized finding an obscure and forgotten character above a character with large important ties to Nintendo's history, he'd have picked choices a lot more obscure than G&W and ROB (yes, there are Nintendo characters more obscure and forgotten than G&W and ROB), especially ROB, considering after MKDS he was once again fairly well-known. He'd have picked Sky Skipper, or Goku, or Mr. Stevenson, or yes, Harry, but he's shown no precedent of having chosen a character merely based on their levels of obscurity, while he has shown, twice now, that characters with strong ties to Nintendo's past have been included. That's why calling them WTF characters is a bit of a misnomer, because chances are they were chosen for reasons apart from just surprise.
Yeah I´m with you about calling WTF to a character especially because each character is picked for a reason, being a representative of his series, a comeback or being important to the history of Nintendo or for the simple reason to get close connections with third parties as sign of friendship or a special favor, still I would like that some obscure or forgotten series that didn´t have much to shine receive a second chance to revive and bring something new to the table, Sky Skipper, Tin Star, Goku, the Marvelous Boys, Harry, Hakkun even Donbe and Hikari would bring something new to Smash that no one has think about.

And literally the reason I´m backing these characters is because I´m tired of seeing the same themes again and again in the main discussion of the general threads. Especially if you try to bring to the table this type of discussion, is shoot down very quickly with "Will Ridley have a chance now?", "How about Fire Emblem, will the new flavor of the system will cut of Ike?", oh I know what haven´t we considered all this time? POKEMON, especially Pokemon... or who should get out Falco or Wolf? (seriously is tiring to read again and again the same s....). At least we could bring something interesting to the conversation with something like, which character from the past like Mr. Game & Watch and R.O.B. would be viable to be considered by Sakurai to get a spot in the roster? Seeing the history of Nintendo we can discuss a lot of characters that people haven´t considered for example, the Zapper for the NES (can be represented by Duck Hunt Dog), something like Super Scope (could get a character like Tin Star) or maybe from the Satellaview exclusive games (Marvelous or Goku should be considered).

No, Sakurai has never made reference to SNES characters specifically as a whole, at least in relation to Smash. Your guess at what he'd call them is as good as mine. It is very telling that when rattling off "classic characters" he's considered in the past, no characters other than those on the NES have been mentioned.
That would mean that no one has bring this to the attention of Sakurai in a interview, that dosen´t mean we should then think that he only consider a classic character only the NES characters that were born on that system, maybe he consider "classic characters" the series that were born in other systems too (considering Handheld and Home Consoles).

First off, just because Nintendo could revive Teleroboxer doesn't mean they ever will, and certainly doesn't mean just because it could happen that gives Harry any sort of edge. Because if we're speaking of hypothetical series revivals, any character is eligible. Especially since, even though Teleroboxer never really got a chance, when it comes down to it it's still a largely unproven IP, and Nintendo, as a business, would use a more established and recognizable brand that already has a substantial market. If they wanted a new boxing game, chances are they'd go with Punch-Out, if they wanted a mech fighting game, they'd probably turn to Custom Robo. So yes, the characters you listed (well, most of the characters you listed) have an edge over Harry, not just because most of them are more popular and well-known that he is, but because in absence of popularity, Sakurai turns to series impact and character potential. Teleroboxer's overall series impact is clearly minimal at best, and as far as a boxing-oriented moveset, Little Mac is the clear choice (and you said they can both get in... but Sakurai clearly prioritizes diversity quite highly, it's fairly unlikely he'd add two pretty standard boxers in one game).
So you consider Harry would have the same move potential as Little Mac if both of them will be at the same time in Smash, what kind of thinking is that? If we are going with your logic then Pit should have the same moveset as Samus because they are the same type of series, or Kirby should have a lot of common with Mario or how about Pokemon Reps with Fire emblem Reps and with Earthbound Reps because the three are RPG series should have the same moves, do you see that type of logic? Not because Little Mac and Harry have the same type of gameplay and common theme it would mean they will both receive the same treatment with the same moves, specials and supers, both can be completely different from one another, gameplay wise.

Well by that logic it should be Wario them because he had the best VB game. Or Mario because he had the most VB games. Generally people don't think of characters who have had appearances on multiple systems as good reps for a single system. Ofc the whole "rep" idea in the first place is a bit misguided, as people tend to quite arbitrarily make up "reps" that Sakurai never would... like a VB rep.
You can´t consider Wario or Mario representing the Virtual Boy, first because both characters are huge within the Nintendo History (I mean Mario is the Mickey Mouse of gaming). So if you are telling me both of those characters will rep only the Virtual Boy is quite unreasonable and thats why I consider an original IP that hasn´t been on other System like Harry would be a good Rep to represent the Virtual Boy, because is the character for that system in a way. You need to consider that even Ice Climbers represent a single game and not even a system, that in my eyes tell me more about Harry that is a unique IP from the Virtual Boy that can represent the system as a whole because it was of the few original IP´s of Nintendo. I´m not counting Nester because he is a special case that should have his own thread to discuss because of his history and what it represents to America as a part of Nintendo in this part of the world.

Harry. That doesn't mean he's in the same situation as G&W, which is all I was saying. Because G&W is actually a representation of his whole system, while Harry is just a single character from a single game. However the VB doesn't have any characters equivalent to G&W, most systems don't, so then really you'd have to turn to the character most closely associated with just the VB, which would be Harry.

But assuming there will be a "VB rep" in the first place is a flawed way of thinking.
Read my answer above.

It means Sakurai won't focus on it in Smash because due to it's short lifespan it didn't provide any characters that merit inclusion nearly as much as many others.
I´m just saying maybe Sakurai has the thought to give a second chance to any of those characters, so they get the spotlight again and see if it was mistake of time, production or maybe luck that put say series or character in that predicament. Maybe they will get momentum with Smash and get a new game. I´m basing my hope of 10% in that. Like you say "Sakurai is considering to revive a character", which would be, no one knows.

I'm quite curious as to which polls Harry has appeared in before. A mention by a fan in the Brawl letters isn't a place on the poll btw.
It wasn´t a metion from a fan, it was really in a poll from Sakurai, I think it was one of the Brawl´s polls? I´m not sure let me find it.

.n_n.
 

Zhadgon

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#39
So I have a question if you need to choose one robot to add? who will you choose from these: Chibi-Robo, Tin Star, Harry, Ray Mk II or Sukapon?
.n_n.
 
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