Media Ridley Match Analyses, Tips/Discussion

Gleam

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#41
The good thing is that pretty much anything Ridley does can counter Gordo, it is a double edged sword of things and something Dedede obviously has to be careful with using. When it comes to the far reaching Gordos, Nair is of course always a nice option to cover yourself but I find Fair to be a surprisingly nice action against Gordo. It may not cover as wide an area as say Nair but it's multi-hitting face means you've got more chances to actually hit the Gordo.

Another thing to try and utilize is a multi-hitting fireball, 3-4 blasts or so. Not only does one fireball alone reflect Gordo but multi-hitting fireballs cuts off Dedede's options and approach. I know many Dedede's like to do the whole "Gordo+Inhale" but again fireballs can cover the distance, priority and put pressure on Dedede from keeping from properly reacting.

The thing is, you take out Gordo and Dedede honestly doesn't have the tools to deal with Ridley. He can't beat him on the ground, he can't beat him in the air, he an arguably even worse comboed character than Ridley is. Gordo, much like K. Rool's Blunderbuss is a gimmick and without experience, can feel very forceful and pressuring. Take your time and be patience because when you get down to it, you have the tools to beat Dedede but if you get too aggressive you begin playing into Dedede's game.

Don't feel threatened to maybe make some space between you and Dedede if its getting to hectic.

Those are my suggestions when dealing with Dedede and specifically Gordo. If you're feeling pressured, make some distance and return that same pressure with multi-hitting fireballs. There's almost nothing Dedede can do about it because of his relatively poor movement and doesn't have the options to really deal with it. Fireballs are something I feel whose applicability outside of edge guarding has become more pronounced. This is still a projectile, a multi-hitting projectile that forces or cancels out different approaches, can lead to combos and essentially cuts off options.

I recently fought one of the Belmonts who went with the tried and classic, chuck everything at you from a distance to try and force your approach. Now in the past, I'd be trying to do all kinds of Nairs and Bairs. Until it hit me with the simplicity of a squeaky hammer. Why should I be forced to approach when I can make some distance and lob fireballs?

Suddenly, that Belmont Strategy fell completely apart. They didn't have the priority, number, distance, etc to deal with multiple fireballs at the same time. Now it was like, hey, I'm not the one who has to approach now, you are. I can make some nice distance and there's not one thing you can do that can force me over there Belmont. I could return equal to greater pressure on Belmont, using my own projectile to force him to approach and cut off options while adding pressure.

I think you'll see that Dedede is similar to that. The lack of experience+being too aggressive can make the match feel harder than it really is but once you learn, you realize it's not as hard you first believed. K-Rool and the already mentioned Belmonts were the same for me.

I got destroyed by things like Crown+Blunderbuss or "Throw your entire weapons collection" of the Belmonts. It took some time but I realized I had more options under my belt than just trying to approach something haphazardly. King K. Rool now I think is one of the easier matchups for Ridley and nowhere near as problematic as it might have felt in the past. Belmonts can still be troublesome in some ways too, I'd argue a lot more than K. Rool but being able to effectively cut off their options helped greatly.
 

ChrisMDB

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#43
Shulk is... well he's an animu swordwaifu and like every other one in the game they're tough nuts to crack while using Ridley. Step one: Never approach them unless you know you can land a hit. Every move they have outranges everything we have (aside from Plasma Breath, but that's not advisable in neutral against quick opponents). Make them approach, and try to bait risky options out of them so you can get a punish. 'Cheesing' them by the ledge with Space Pirate Rush and dunking them for the great stage spike is a fantastic way to get easy kills on a ton of characters, all of the swordfighters included. It may feel cheap, but sometimes all a character has going for itself in a matchup is a cheap gimmick, and if you need to use it to win then you probably should.

Try to take advantage of poor Monado management if your opponent isn't great with it as well, Ridley is the king of punishment and you'll need to punish every mistake they make to win some of these bad matchups.

With that being said I think Shulk is one of the easier swordfighters to fight, certainly not as gross as Chrom or Lucina (mostly Chrom being actual garbage in the meta right now with his suicide-to-win strats).
 

Ridley_Prime

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#44
While I hate K. Rool’s nerfing and what it represents, suppose it should be pointed out now that his up B is more reliable to challenge with Wing Blitz as a result, rather than hoping you spike a recovering Rool with d-air by some miracle/lucky shot (not to mention safer since you can snap to the ledge after a Wing Blitz).
 
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#45
How should Ridley go about dealing with Dedede Gordo pressure? He's got a large frame and they travel in difficult trajectories and can juggle into itself, I played a few matches against a Dedede and it felt like I got turned into a magnet for the things. It especially made edge-guarding difficult since they were often able to shut down my approach off-stage.
The best way I have found to deal with Gordos is to simply nair or fair them. Fair is out of a long time and nair has a huge hitbox, so both are pretty good options. F-tilt is good at sending them back aswell in the neutral. However, the best thing to do would be to parry them. Honestly, you just have to play really patiently and punish when he throws one out with something like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mFNkJCKjUI&t=2s

I'd love some input on my play.
 

ChrisMDB

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#46
Krakatoa:

First, fantastic job in that set. Yeah it may have not turned out the way you wanted it to, but you put up a great fight. I'm not very familiar with the Villager/Isabelle matchup myself; their recovery is near impossible to edgeguard in my experience (taking away one of our big strengths in most matchups) and Lloyd Rockets/slingshots are very oppressive. Parrying as you did in that set is a great way to deal with either when they aren't expecting you to but I'm not sure if it's a complete solution to the problem. F-Tilt looks like a great way to deal with rockets, and Nair may be a great way to deal with the slingshots while approaching (not totally sure about it, I'll try it later today). I do think there were a couple of times in the matchup where you could have gone for a Space Pirate Rush to nab some great damage and potentially a few kills, although judging by your play in the set reads don't really seem to be your thing.

I think this matchup really comes down to where it's played. On Lylat you seemed to have things under control, but once Smashville was brought into the equation things got a bit out of hand. If WarioWare or Castle Siege are legal in your tournaments ruleset I'd try them out, as they're too small for Visabelle to constantly run from you and you'll kill at insanely early percents. On larger stages, and even more medium ones like Smashville, it looks like the matchup just gets a little too oppressive. Having small plats allows you to apply consistent pressure which is likely why Lylat was a better venture than Smashville, although they can always camp off-stage like we saw in game three on Battlefield.

Overall I think you played very well though (certainly better than I've ever managed since Melee, lol) and this matchup may just be one of those ones that are super bad for Ridley.


On a side note: recently I've noticed that I'm having increasingly more issues when facing Wolf (possibly because everyone and their mother seems to be picking the space furries up). Any tips for the MU? I can combo and gimp him for days, but his laser is one of the most annoying things to deal with in any iteration of Smash (while probably being the best projectile in game tbh).
 

E.G.G.M.A.N.

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#47
I'm not very familiar with the Villager/Isabelle matchup myself; their recovery is near impossible to edgeguard in my experience (taking away one of our big strengths in most matchups)
I always found theirs to be one of the easiest ones to edge guard; it follows a predictible flight path, has no hitbox, and grows weaker when used in succession. Is it because they're hugging the side of the stage? You can up-b spike them right through those balloons with the proper timing.
 
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ChrisMDB

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#48
I always found theirs to be one of the easiest ones to edge guard; it follows a predictible flight path, has no hitbox, and grows weaker when used in succession. Is it because they're hugging the side of the stage? You can up-b spike them right through those balloons with the proper timing.
I'm not sure why exactly, every time I try to hit them I usually only manage to hit a single balloon. If I practice the matchup more I'll probably figure it out, I rarely see Villager/Isabelle players.
 

Predatoria

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#49
I was at a smash house party last night and was struggling to make Ridley proud against a friend of mine who plays Cloud. He's become quite good with Cloud. I used to beat him previous weeks but last night he had definitely stepped up his game and I was struggling near the end of the night to beat him.

I'll try and summarize some of the key points I was having the most difficulty with in hopes of some advice on the Ridley vs Cloud matchup:

I had a hard time maintaining the stage. As soon as he'd get me up in the air or off the edge of the stage, I had a difficult time getting my footing back.

For ledge guarding, he'd typically stand just far enough back such that a get up attack would miss him, and then would either punish my get up by hitting me off again (short hop forward / neutral, or a side B, I believe were his frequent choices), or would jump and forward air me, which seemed to beat out my neutral air if I jumped to climb back onto the stage. I ended up getting hit off the edge again many times just trying to get back onto the stage, where he'd rack up even more damage by either doing his green projectile thing or occasionally jumping off to forward-air me. If I tried to space pirate rush him while he stood near the stage ledge, he'd punish it with either a short hop forward air or his side B wall of sword slicing thing he does, and he was able to pick up on when I'd try this option and punish it. This brings a question I have. How do you get back on stage from a disadvantaged state against Cloud?

Against the others I was playing with last night, I was landing a whole lot of predictive side smashes by side smashing where I thought they'd land, roll, or approach into. With Cloud, however, he'd always approach me with a down air, and that sword thing he does with his down air seemed to hit me out of an attempt at side smashing. He'd nearly always have his down air active any time he was falling, taking away my ability to try to predict and punish his landing, or contest him while he was up in the air with up airs, up tilts, side smashes on his landing, or anything else I could think of. He seemed uncontestable while in the air to me and I wasn't really sure what to do about it. How do you contest cloud from below when he's falling? Is it doable? This was particularly problematic on platforms where his down aerial would even hit me if I stood below and tried to hit with up tilt or up smash.

Lastly, I had a hard time contesting him in neutral. I think I really need to work on my ground game, as I do tend to jump too often, but even still, I had a difficult time dealing with his side B, his projectile, and his hopping aerials he'd frequently do. He'd often get me up in the air and once I was there, I had a very rough time getting back down to the ground. He'd hit me from below, would punish my air dodges, and I felt like I didn't really have an option to get my feet back on the ground and would often result to fleeing to a ledge hang, which led to the problems I had in my first point. How do you typically maintain your ground and fight Cloud in neutral?


I unfortunately don't have any videos of the matches. I was at a friend's house and it wasn't on my Switch. I want to beat him next week, and want to train up some more.
 

Firox

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#50
I was at a smash house party last night and was struggling to make Ridley proud against a friend of mine who plays Cloud. He's become quite good with Cloud. I used to beat him previous weeks but last night he had definitely stepped up his game and I was struggling near the end of the night to beat him.

I'll try and summarize some of the key points I was having the most difficulty with in hopes of some advice on the Ridley vs Cloud matchup:

I had a hard time maintaining the stage. As soon as he'd get me up in the air or off the edge of the stage, I had a difficult time getting my footing back.

For ledge guarding, he'd typically stand just far enough back such that a get up attack would miss him, and then would either punish my get up by hitting me off again (short hop forward / neutral, or a side B, I believe were his frequent choices), or would jump and forward air me, which seemed to beat out my neutral air if I jumped to climb back onto the stage. I ended up getting hit off the edge again many times just trying to get back onto the stage, where he'd rack up even more damage by either doing his green projectile thing or occasionally jumping off to forward-air me. If I tried to space pirate rush him while he stood near the stage ledge, he'd punish it with either a short hop forward air or his side B wall of sword slicing thing he does, and he was able to pick up on when I'd try this option and punish it. This brings a question I have. How do you get back on stage from a disadvantaged state against Cloud?

Against the others I was playing with last night, I was landing a whole lot of predictive side smashes by side smashing where I thought they'd land, roll, or approach into. With Cloud, however, he'd always approach me with a down air, and that sword thing he does with his down air seemed to hit me out of an attempt at side smashing. He'd nearly always have his down air active any time he was falling, taking away my ability to try to predict and punish his landing, or contest him while he was up in the air with up airs, up tilts, side smashes on his landing, or anything else I could think of. He seemed uncontestable while in the air to me and I wasn't really sure what to do about it. How do you contest cloud from below when he's falling? Is it doable? This was particularly problematic on platforms where his down aerial would even hit me if I stood below and tried to hit with up tilt or up smash.

Lastly, I had a hard time contesting him in neutral. I think I really need to work on my ground game, as I do tend to jump too often, but even still, I had a difficult time dealing with his side B, his projectile, and his hopping aerials he'd frequently do. He'd often get me up in the air and once I was there, I had a very rough time getting back down to the ground. He'd hit me from below, would punish my air dodges, and I felt like I didn't really have an option to get my feet back on the ground and would often result to fleeing to a ledge hang, which led to the problems I had in my first point. How do you typically maintain your ground and fight Cloud in neutral?


I unfortunately don't have any videos of the matches. I was at a friend's house and it wasn't on my Switch. I want to beat him next week, and want to train up some more.
I play both Cloud AND Ridley as secondaries, so let me weigh in on this. Due to Ridley's terrible Dair and lack of range on his Nair, I would unfortunately have to say that the worst place for Ridley is above Cloud. Cloud's up air has stupid range and priority. Few if any aerials can trump it without some serious disjoint. My best advice would be to use your extra jumps to fake out where you're going to land, then hit him with a Fair or Bair.

As for contesting his down air, again, you can't. It has some of the craziest disjoint in the game, hence why many experienced players will often cover their landings with it. The secret is to take advantage of its super long duration. Cloud is going to be locked into that position for a significant amount of time, especially if used early in his descent. Use foxtrots and dash dances to throw off his aim, then hit him with Fair or Bair from the side or punish the landing with pivot smash.

For neutral, DON'T FORGET about your plasma breath. If you have enough distance, it will tear through his blade beams all day. Also, you can cancel many of his approaches with either Dtilt or Fair. Learn his favorite approaches and counter accordingly. Your Ftilt and Dtilt can outrange him and are pretty quick so don't be shy about using them.

Lastly, how to deal with the edgeguarding. Unfortunately, you don't have a lot of options once you're hanging from the ledge, but if HE'S the one on the ledge...oh, baby. Ridley can absolutely destroy Cloud when it comes to edgeguarding. Plasma breath alone does the job easy due to how terrible his recovery is, but you can also spam Fair to catch his jump off stage. My favorite combo is to grab him near the ledge, down throw into Fair, then fast fall into another fair and then Up B backwards to the stage. Guaranteed kill. My last nugget of advice for trying to overcome his edgeguarding would be to feint a jump back onto the stage and then instead grab him with side B. This will ganoncide you under the stage but you can jump cancel at the last second and recover while he's left to die like a chump. Good luck to you, fellow space pirate.
 

Predatoria

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#51
I play both Cloud AND Ridley as secondaries, so let me weigh in on this. Due to Ridley's terrible Dair and lack of range on his Nair, I would unfortunately have to say that the worst place for Ridley is above Cloud. Cloud's up air has stupid range and priority. Few if any aerials can trump it without some serious disjoint. My best advice would be to use your extra jumps to fake out where you're going to land, then hit him with a Fair or Bair.

As for contesting his down air, again, you can't. It has some of the craziest disjoint in the game, hence why many experienced players will often cover their landings with it. The secret is to take advantage of its super long duration. Cloud is going to be locked into that position for a significant amount of time, especially if used early in his descent. Use foxtrots and dash dances to throw off his aim, then hit him with Fair or Bair from the side or punish the landing with pivot smash.

For neutral, DON'T FORGET about your plasma breath. If you have enough distance, it will tear through his blade beams all day. Also, you can cancel many of his approaches with either Dtilt or Fair. Learn his favorite approaches and counter accordingly. Your Ftilt and Dtilt can outrange him and are pretty quick so don't be shy about using them.

Lastly, how to deal with the edgeguarding. Unfortunately, you don't have a lot of options once you're hanging from the ledge, but if HE'S the one on the ledge...oh, baby. Ridley can absolutely destroy Cloud when it comes to edgeguarding. Plasma breath alone does the job easy due to how terrible his recovery is, but you can also spam Fair to catch his jump off stage. My favorite combo is to grab him near the ledge, down throw into Fair, then fast fall into another fair and then Up B backwards to the stage. Guaranteed kill. My last nugget of advice for trying to overcome his edgeguarding would be to feint a jump back onto the stage and then instead grab him with side B. This will ganoncide you under the stage but you can jump cancel at the last second and recover while he's left to die like a chump. Good luck to you, fellow space pirate.
I appreciate the reply! I am, admittedly, glad to know my struggles against Cloud's aerials were legitimate.

It sounds like I'll just have to respect these options of his and work around it to the best I can and mix up my options or change a bit of my play around his, rather than challenging his aerials directly.

I've definitely gotten him off-stage many, many times, sometimes even from 0 with similar combos to what you describe here. I'm curious, though, why the fastfall on the second forward air? I do know that sometimes he's able to get out by air dodging after my first forward air, leaving me unable to follow up with a second forward (or neutral) air. Does it help with that?

He is legitimately scared of my Ridley when he's off the stage because he knows I'm going to chase after him and screw his recovery up. It's actually one of my favorite things about Ridley's playstyle, that he is so good at devouring swordsmen when they're off-stage. Sometimes the tricky part is merely getting them off-stage in the first place!
 

Firox

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#52
I appreciate the reply! I am, admittedly, glad to know my struggles against Cloud's aerials were legitimate.

It sounds like I'll just have to respect these options of his and work around it to the best I can and mix up my options or change a bit of my play around his, rather than challenging his aerials directly.

I've definitely gotten him off-stage many, many times, sometimes even from 0 with similar combos to what you describe here. I'm curious, though, why the fastfall on the second forward air? I do know that sometimes he's able to get out by air dodging after my first forward air, leaving me unable to follow up with a second forward (or neutral) air. Does it help with that?

He is legitimately scared of my Ridley when he's off the stage because he knows I'm going to chase after him and screw his recovery up. It's actually one of my favorite things about Ridley's playstyle, that he is so good at devouring swordsmen when they're off-stage. Sometimes the tricky part is merely getting them off-stage in the first place!
Heck yeah he should be scared of Ridley off-stage. That space pirate is one of the most brutal edgeguarders in the game. Even if you don't have enough time to chase ppl offstage, one of my favorite kill moves is to space a down smash at the ledge. Ridley's wings have ABSURD reach and power, not to mention the hitbox can extend below the stage. Since Cloud can't snap the ledge without limit break, you can destroy him with a well timed down smash.

As for the fast fall Fair off-stage, I recommended it due to the fact that most characters will try to recover low because there's less chance you will pursue given your limited recovery options. Their only real option for survival would be a air dodge through you in hopes that the end lag would wear off in time for them to Up B back to the ledge. Also, when I say fast fall Fair, I mean that immediately after the first Fair you drop down and then Fair again with your second jump. By jumping into the second Fair, it effectively increases the sweep of your hit box because it adds a vertical element to it. This decreases the chances of your opponent escaping. Sorry if the reasoning sounds overly complicated but the technique basically makes it easier to wall off opponents. If you friend happens to always jump after the first Fair, then disregard the fast fall and just jump again into Fair. As always, adjust your strategy to your opponent.

P.S. Yeah, you were never alone in dealing with Cloud's aerials. In my experience, the only characters that can consistently challenge them are other swordies.
 

Xx2RAGE2xX

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#54
I've found a lot of success with an up smash out of shield. People tend to shield on platforms often, space pirate rush is safe at times in that situation and it's great for tech chases. My biggest tip when it comes to surviving is saving your jumps! Only use them when you need them. I also prefer not to approach with Ridley unless an opening is found.
 

Ridley_Prime

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#55
One thing I realized we still hadn't experimented much with Ridley until others on discord pointed it out, is what he can do when picking up and using dropped items from character specific moves. Only wish character items were spawnable through the item tab in training mode so you can more easily test the matchup specific combos with them.

For instance, Young Link and Toon Link's bombs, when Ridley picks up and throws them back, confirms into him being able to do a free Up Smash on the Link's. That's like a Golden Torizo move right there. Also of note, picking up Diddy's dropped banana peel and throwing & using it to make him trip allows Ridley a free Skewer.

I reckon any tilt or aerial at least will confirm off the majority of character specific items in the game, but is still good to lab to be sure, like the metal blade that Mega Man drops, since Ridley needs anything he can get for that matchup, when MM is too small for Ridley to even reliably hit out of shield on top of the zoning stuff.


My favorite results I've seen so far are what Ridley can do using R.O.B.'s Gyro against him, the latter example of which combos into an aerial Skewer.

https://twitter.com/iroll20s/status/1187166533140832257

https://twitter.com/iroll20s/status/1187278268128464897?s=21

edit: Well this works for Mega Man.

https://twitter.com/whitefangssbu/status/1188913083646955521?s=21
 
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ChrisMDB

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#56
Any ideas (aside from picking up a secondary) for the Palutena matchup? Obviously the Paloops that were recently brought to light completely invalidate our character, but assuming they're patched out I'd still like to work on the matchup (which honestly feels unwinnable even without their infinite in play).

If worst comes to worst I can just pick Pichu/Pikachu up for the MU, but I'd rather not.
 
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Ridley_Prime

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#57
Any ideas (aside from picking up a secondary) for the Palutena matchup? Obviously the Paloops that were recently brought to light completely invalidate our character, but assuming they're patched out I'd still like to work on the matchup (which honestly feels unwinnable even without their infinite in play).

If worst comes to worst I can just pick Pichu/Pikachu up for the MU, but I'd rather not.
All it means is that we shouldn't challenge her on Battlefield, as the platform assistance is mostly what allows her to do that nair infinite loop with escape being pretty much impossible for Ridley, unless they nerf her nair later or something. So face her on a Final Destination variant instead if you can help it; to that end, I'd recommend like this combo that works with her DI.


And for the u-tilt > u-air kill confirm that Ridley got from the 4.0 buffs, these are what work on Palutena in her damage % ranges.

u-tilt -> full hop u-air (83-88%)
u-tilt -> double jump u-air (89-95%)

Just keep that in mind I guess.


While I'm here, guess I may as well point this out to watch out for from Jigglypuff, in light of her recent buffs that made d-air > Rest a confirm. However, you should be able to DI away from it if you play your cards right, so don't mind this twitter combo that was done on a training dummy.


If a Puff tried that on me, I'd attempt a DI away and punish with f-smash or something. That said, the buffs that Robin got in the latest update are what one should watch out for the most, which was already a troublesome matchup for Ridley.
 

ChrisMDB

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#58
The unfortunate part about Paloops is that they work on: Battlefield, Lylat (center plat only), Smashville, and I've seen evidence that they can potentially work until kill percents on PS (which effectively kills tournament matchups in my region because of our stage list and the way we do bans).

Your suggestions will definitely help though, thank you for those! Fortunately I don't see any Puffs in my region and no Robins that are serious enough to be used in tournament, so I likely won't have to deal with them (but I'll keep those MU's in mind regardless).
 

channel_KYX

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#59
Is this thread still alive? I could use some help with Ridley and might want to post some replay, but only worth the effort if anyone will at least say something.
 
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#62
I check in from time to time, but the site seems dead from what little activity I ever see.
It's unfortunate but I'm trying to use it more often. Twitter never seems to be a good place for discussion on Smash (or anything really) so I'll do my best to use this site more these days.

EDIT: Few days in and so far I've kinda been keeping up, lol
 
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Ridley_Prime

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#63
The recently talked about phantom footstooling may or may get patched out in the future, but I guess for now, enjoy being able to footstool things like Palu's u-air, which Ridley was tested able to do.
 
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#64
I really need help against Duck Hunt. I finally played a really good player but just could not get around the Tin Can and the Clay Pigeons. Is it just wrong to shield the pigeons? It's just so hard for me to get around those projectiles.
 

ChrisMDB

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#65
Don't have much experience in this matchup myself, but I'd say it's probably not too different from a lot of other zoners. Try not to sit in shield when they throw projectiles at you because you're opening yourself up to a grab, or really whatever option they want. Since Ridley has three jumps I'd advise using one to avoid the clay pigeons.

Haven't tested these options, but the multihit on Fair may destroy clay pigeons, and Up-B's super armor may destroy them as well (so these options could potentially be used as a mixup at close range to catch the pigeon and an unsuspecting opponent). Fair could even just work as a better option at range as well.

If you have to shield it, try to get the timing down for a parry so that it's as safe as possible. Otherwise though, spam plasma at range and once you hit Duck Hunt don't relent.
 
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Ridley_Prime

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#66
If Byleth misses with their down special, I guess we pretty much get a free skewer; proof of concept in this clip here.

Overall though, 7.0 gave some beneficial and tough changes for Ridley's matchup experience. The Byleth MU isn't that bad as pointed out, but with the buffs to some of the zoners and not to mention Zelda, some of his worst MU's just got even worse, so we'll have to play even more patiently with the likes of them. At least there was the whole shield buff as a silver lining, along with the ZSS down B and Palutena nair nerfs.

edit: Hearing now that Palu can no longer nair infinite Ridley on Battlefield, so hopefully that’s true. The d-throw > bair window is tighter for her now too (good).
 
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Tortfeasor

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#67
Having fought quite a few Byleths yesterday, and giving him/her a shot myself, I believe the MU favours Ridley. Byleth's range, both with his bow and melee weapons, is dangerous to be sure, but his/her attacks are generally so slow that Ridley can easily take advantage of any whiffs. I also found edge guarding Byleth to be pretty simple.

I'll have to try the skewer punish after Byleth's Down-B! I was playing a bit cautiously around it after getting nailed with it several times while I was using Mega Man.

One thing to watch out for is Byleth's short-hop fair into jab. Maybe I'm too slow, but I couldn't Nair or grab out of shield before Byleth was able to jab and rack up 20+ % with his/her flurry.

Regarding the fighter adjustments, I agree that some of Ridley's worst MUs are going to be even more difficult. Reading the Zelda ones, it was just buff, buff, and more buffs. I kept hoping that the next one would be a nerf to Neutral-B or Up-B, but alas it never came.
 

Ridley_Prime

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#68
I gotta wonder/ask, how tough is the Samus matchup for Ridley now? Compared to before I mean. Some are saying her buffs jumped her up a tier or so even.

How much trouble does her dash attack give him now? How early does her current up smash kill him? The new down smash I reckon most will try to use as an edgeguard tool, but theoretically Rid should still be able to shark her with upward wing blitz/u-air from under the platform while recovering if she tries to go for that (you should try to be recovering low against someone like Samus anyway). Her up throw kills him around 160% now I guess (around 20% earlier than it did before), though I don't know about the midair grab differences... It's a lot to take in.

For Zelda, I'm mainly worried about the u-air which was already powerful before (be DI ready for it), though Din's Fire is gonna be more annoying too.

Also now that Ryu and Ken have been super buffed again, I'd say you're more obligated to try and camp and zone them out, though keep in mind the tatsu kick special goes through some of our fireballs now (some but not all).

The Byleth matchup is the least of our worries, at least as far as I'm concerned.
 

IsmaR

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#69
The main thing that has changed for the zoner MUs is that Samus, Toon Link, and Young Link all have improved Z-airs, which are problematic for taller characters already, as now they're easier to rack up damage/combo into other things with.

I would also say Sheik becomes more of a pain with reduced landing lag on needles (easier to convert strings into kills), larger standing grab range, and her Side B now no longer clanking with other moves (Plasma Breath specifically doesn't stop it for free now).

Lastly, I already felt Cloud was a rough MU, but now with his vastly improved Up Smash, easier time snapping to ledge with Climhazzard (no longer as free a fireball/angled F-tilt edgeguard) and faster limit, I feel it's one of the hardest match ups in the game.
 

ChrisMDB

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#70
Haven't played since the last patch (simply haven't had the time), but interesting that you say Cloud is a difficult MU. Never had trouble with him as he's super easy to edgeguard (as opposed to ledge trap, which has gone from free to difficult).

Going offstage against Cloud is free as he really can't do much of anything to you (unless you screw up and fly into a Fair or he suicides).

D-throw into a three fair string at ledge is also a 0-death on Cloud if they don't airdodge immediately and it works until around 30%, and considering how unwilling people are to airdodge offstage it can get done at slightly higher percents as well.

Other than that it's really about just playing patiently and to Ridley's strengths.
 

Ridley_Prime

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#71
I suppose so, yeah. Also, if you think they're gonna airdodge during the f-air train off-stage, then followup with side B instead to punish said airdodge.

And point well taken on Sheik too.
 

Ridley_Prime

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#72
Realized I forgot to post it earlier, but feel others should be aware of this unfortunately being possible with Zelda now due to her new hitbox shenanigans which we may be stuck with in these certain instances.

 
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#73
I haven't posted in a while but I never stopped playing Riddles McDiddles; how's everyone finding him thus far, a bit over a year since release(and 7.0).

Been going to local tourneys and still staying afloat on elite smash most of the time, but granted I'm definitely not deep-in-the-tournament level as of yet. My opinion on him hasn't really changed much....he's OK. The best players I have seen using him are Vreyvus and Creepooba, and even though both of those dudes are amazing with Ridley you can still clearly see this holes in his game. I'd be happy with his Up B getting reworked but let's face it, that won't happen till smash 6.

Matchup wise nothing has changed either, with the exception that the samus MU is now hell and I feel the same about cloud, though I haven't spent that much time with that one yet. I see some more ice climbers around and they shut down pirate rush completely with their breath move(regular B I think?), along with a lot of his neutral.

Landing is still hard in general and a nightmare against many of the high/top tiers. Considering Up B probably won't get a rework(as fixing it's speed or hitbox won't solve the core issue) I firmly believe buffing his air speed if just a tiny bit would do miracles for him. As he is, he still gets comboed to zebes and beyond....yet is the lightest heavyweight.

But all that aside, he's still fun as all hell to use.

EDIT: BTW, I'm a professional artist, I finished this just a couple of weeks ago and thought you'd all probably like it!

 
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#74
I firmly believe buffing his air speed if just a tiny bit would do miracles for him.
I've believed this for months now. Improving his air mobility would be the ultimate Quality of Life buff for Ridley, improving sooo many aspects for him.

Particularly, he needs a slight increase in air speed with a bump to air acceleration to round out the speed boost. Would improve his recovery, his ability to string attacks, help his struggle against zoners and speedy rushdown characters, improve his advantage so he struggles less to chase down targets. But most of all it would a huge help to his disadvantage, being able to better drift out of strings, maneuver around attacks a bit better... And especially certain situations where he just plain gets locked down due to his size (e.g. Frustratingly G&W's Neutral B just ruins Ridley if he's stuck on the ledge and when properly spaced. Ridley simply CANNOT escape. Rolls and stand up gets him hit back onto ledge, jumps catch him, ledge attack gets snuffed, and he actually gets straight up juggled right on ledge. And he can't maneuver around them either.)

Outside of that, DAir still sucks and needs to be fixed (just recently saw an image of its hitbox... Seriously Nintendo?). Doubt they'd do this, but they need to reduce the hitstun on his Plasma Breath weakspot. Taking 20+ damage AND getting punished for a move that's only great in one scenario and just OK everywhere else is not fair. And I'd take some hitbox adjustments on some of his other moves, because it's ridiculous how easy it can be to maneuver around Ridley's huge body and his safer attacks often just whiff while the moves that would cover more space are dangerous committals.

I still hold that Ridley is a good character with a lot of good moves. What it ultimately comes down to is Quality Of Life for our Space Pirate Leader is BAAAD. It's the prime reason people drop him in favor of other characters. He is difficult to win with consistently, and mostly for the wrong reasons. You can think of Ridley as a big-bodied spear user. Except his "spear" is a weird combination of middling length AND unwieldly. He can poke defensively pretty darn well, but his offensive poking game is sorely lacking simply because the buttons that would contribute in that area are all exploitable (even his infamous NAir). He's forced to play more like Ganondorf, except he doesn't have to weight or power to sustain that sort of play. When he's on point he's absolutely brutal. But that's just it; It takes A WHOLE LOT MENTALLY to stay on point with Ridley. Things go south for him so fast if and when he doesn't choose the right option Every Single Time. Add to that a distinct weakness to zoners AND having the combat defense of actual zoners (not good), and no wonder people try picking up a secondary character and eventually abandon Ridley altogether. It's just far less mentally taxing to have a simpler character that still gets consistent results.

And I get fearful for Ridley's future, 'cause I'm not sure Nintendo understands this. They didn't make a bad character per say. He still gets wins, he can still perform well under the right conditions with the right player. But for most people out there, it just isn't FUN. Subjective, yes. But people want their efforts rewarded, and Ridley's current Quality of Life situation is a moveset that asks too much for a level of reward most characters in the game award for considerably less effort. He needs buffs. Not "better recovery" buffs, not "stronger/more damage" buffs. He sorely needs "easier to use/more fun" buffs.
 
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Ridley_Prime

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#75
I've believed this for months now. Improving his air mobility would be the ultimate Quality of Life buff for Ridley, improving sooo many aspects for him.

Particularly, he needs a slight increase in air speed with a bump to air acceleration to round out the speed boost. Would improve his recovery, his ability to string attacks, help his struggle against zoners and speedy rushdown characters, improve his advantage so he struggles less to chase down targets. But most of all it would a huge help to his disadvantage, being able to better drift out of strings, maneuver around attacks a bit better... And especially certain situations where he just plain gets locked down due to his size (e.g. Frustratingly G&W's Neutral B just ruins Ridley if he's stuck on the ledge and when properly spaced. Ridley simply CANNOT escape. Rolls and stand up gets him hit back onto ledge, jumps catch him, ledge attack gets snuffed, and he actually gets straight up juggled right on ledge. And he can't maneuver around them either.)

Outside of that, DAir still sucks and needs to be fixed (just recently saw an image of its hitbox... Seriously Nintendo?). Doubt they'd do this, but they need to reduce the hitstun on his Plasma Breath weakspot. Taking 20+ damage AND getting punished for a move that's only great in one scenario and just OK everywhere else is not fair. And I'd take some hitbox adjustments on some of his other moves, because it's ridiculous how easy it can be to maneuver around Ridley's huge body and his safer attacks often just whiff while the moves that would cover more space are dangerous committals.

I still hold that Ridley is a good character with a lot of good moves. What it ultimately comes down to is Quality Of Life for our Space Pirate Leader is BAAAD. It's the prime reason people drop him in favor of other characters. He is difficult to win with consistently, and mostly for the wrong reasons. You can think of Ridley as a big-bodied spear user. Except his "spear" is a weird combination of middling length AND unwieldly. He can poke defensively pretty darn well, but his offensive poking game is sorely lacking simply because the buttons that would contribute in that area are all exploitable (even his infamous NAir). He's forced to play more like Ganondorf, except he doesn't have to weight or power to sustain that sort of play. When he's on point he's absolutely brutal. But that's just it; It takes A WHOLE LOT MENTALLY to stay on point with Ridley. Things go south for him so fast if and when he doesn't choose the right option Every Single Time. Add to that a distinct weakness to zoners AND having the combat defense of actual zoners (not good), and no wonder people try picking up a secondary character and eventually abandon Ridley altogether. It's just far less mentally taxing to have a simpler character that still gets consistent results.

And I get fearful for Ridley's future, 'cause I'm not sure Nintendo understands this. They didn't make a bad character per say. He still gets wins, he can still perform well under the right conditions with the right player. But for most people out there, it just isn't FUN. Subjective, yes. But people want their efforts rewarded, and Ridley's current Quality of Life situation is a moveset that asks too much for a level of reward most characters in the game award for considerably less effort. He needs buffs. Not "better recovery" buffs, not "stronger/more damage" buffs. He sorely needs "easier to use/more fun" buffs.
It's unfortunate that it seems we have to rely on others getting nerfs (like Palutena who can no longer infinite nair us like she could before, right?) for Ridley to not suffer so, as he may never get the kind of improvements he needs most of all, happy as I am for some minor buffs here and there like with his shield in the last patch.

It was honestly the most bleak of all prior to his first real buffs in 4.0, and since then I hadn't really been worried, but then most of the zoners getting buffed recently amplified his already existing problems, so I'm like "Oh..." when I get back into the game as him now, even if I win against the average wifi Samus and such.
 
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#76
I've believed this for months now. Improving his air mobility would be the ultimate Quality of Life buff for Ridley, improving sooo many aspects for him.

Particularly, he needs a slight increase in air speed with a bump to air acceleration to round out the speed boost. Would improve his recovery, his ability to string attacks, help his struggle against zoners and speedy rushdown characters, improve his advantage so he struggles less to chase down targets. But most of all it would a huge help to his disadvantage, being able to better drift out of strings, maneuver around attacks a bit better... And especially certain situations where he just plain gets locked down due to his size (e.g. Frustratingly G&W's Neutral B just ruins Ridley if he's stuck on the ledge and when properly spaced. Ridley simply CANNOT escape. Rolls and stand up gets him hit back onto ledge, jumps catch him, ledge attack gets snuffed, and he actually gets straight up juggled right on ledge. And he can't maneuver around them either.)

Outside of that, DAir still sucks and needs to be fixed (just recently saw an image of its hitbox... Seriously Nintendo?). Doubt they'd do this, but they need to reduce the hitstun on his Plasma Breath weakspot. Taking 20+ damage AND getting punished for a move that's only great in one scenario and just OK everywhere else is not fair. And I'd take some hitbox adjustments on some of his other moves, because it's ridiculous how easy it can be to maneuver around Ridley's huge body and his safer attacks often just whiff while the moves that would cover more space are dangerous committals.

I still hold that Ridley is a good character with a lot of good moves. What it ultimately comes down to is Quality Of Life for our Space Pirate Leader is BAAAD. It's the prime reason people drop him in favor of other characters. He is difficult to win with consistently, and mostly for the wrong reasons. You can think of Ridley as a big-bodied spear user. Except his "spear" is a weird combination of middling length AND unwieldly. He can poke defensively pretty darn well, but his offensive poking game is sorely lacking simply because the buttons that would contribute in that area are all exploitable (even his infamous NAir). He's forced to play more like Ganondorf, except he doesn't have to weight or power to sustain that sort of play. When he's on point he's absolutely brutal. But that's just it; It takes A WHOLE LOT MENTALLY to stay on point with Ridley. Things go south for him so fast if and when he doesn't choose the right option Every Single Time. Add to that a distinct weakness to zoners AND having the combat defense of actual zoners (not good), and no wonder people try picking up a secondary character and eventually abandon Ridley altogether. It's just far less mentally taxing to have a simpler character that still gets consistent results.

And I get fearful for Ridley's future, 'cause I'm not sure Nintendo understands this. They didn't make a bad character per say. He still gets wins, he can still perform well under the right conditions with the right player. But for most people out there, it just isn't FUN. Subjective, yes. But people want their efforts rewarded, and Ridley's current Quality of Life situation is a moveset that asks too much for a level of reward most characters in the game award for considerably less effort. He needs buffs. Not "better recovery" buffs, not "stronger/more damage" buffs. He sorely needs "easier to use/more fun" buffs.
You hit the nail on the head there......unfortunately, because it sucks for us. I agree that he's difficult to win with for the wrong reasons. You have to wonder how balancing is approached in this game, as a few of his moves work in ways that are so questionably useless that I honestly can't understand the philosophy behind them. Can't say it enough, but there is absolutely NO reason for him not to have an 8 way recovery. 2 jumps, a side B and UP B simply isnt enough because hes too big, his air speed is too slow and the startup for those moves are also very slow. He should be great at recovering but his recovery is damn exploitable.

Dair is flat out BS. Like you said, the hurtbox is laughable. For real, what purpose does that move serve if at all? Pretty much the entire cast can Uair to beat it out and it has mad recovery. I'm a character loyalist and I have wanted ridley in since the melee days, and while I'm grateful that he's finally in I'm also salty about how they've treated him. Slightly buff a couple of his moves and his air speed....just a tiny bit....it's all I ask for.
 

Ridley_Prime

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#77
He has three jumps, where are some of you getting two from? Yes, his 3rd jump isn't that good or gives that much altitude, but it exists. Is like Charizard as far as the three jumps, though some say he should be more like Pit with the number of jumps, but that's another issue altogether. Wing Blitz having more directions would've been nice, but I came to terms with it long ago. Even the four directions it has gives plenty to work with, especially offensively which all work well with his size. Downward wing blitz kills particularly are easy-peasy if not cheese kills sometimes, which almost compensates for his bad d-air even...

Haven't really seen that much complaints about his recovery since before it got buffed in 4.0, or people just got used to it by then I guess... Reminder that its startup and distance traveled used to be worse. Now, he can potentially recover from the depths of hell under the right conditions, though I guess it's mostly the startup of the move that irks you as far as being exploitable, which fair enough.

His air speed isn't trash, just average, but for someone with Ridley's kit it needs to be above average. Easier to connect u-airs is the main thing I would expect for his air speed being buffed, but he has a decent air game as is imo (especially off stage), though said buff would definitely be welcomed.

U-tilt is the only problem I still have as far as whiffing, though not sure if they'll ever fix that. Other characters have it just as bad if not worse when it comes to moves with whiffs or blindspots; at least Ridley's up smash got mostly fixed earlier in that sense.

This is still pretty much the most balanced Smash we've ever had (despite the massive roster which ironically works in favor of balance), so I'm willing to give the team the benefit of a doubt with the future updates, even if I'm not expecting too much more for Ridley.
 
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