Rex Drives into Battle! (Xenoblade 2)

Staarih

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So I'm not extremely familiar with the mechanics of XC2, but is blade switching a major thing or would just the Blade + Driver combo be "gimmicky" enough by itself for Smash?

I've been wondering if a scenario like Rex & Pyra and Rex & Mythra being alts is possible (four color options for both). I know their skills are different but if there's a way to somehow make them close enough to each other with just different aesthetics (fire & light), I wonder if the alt route is possible. Source material is important but as seen with Shulk, some liberties can be taken.
 

Starlight Liger

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So I'm not extremely familiar with the mechanics of XC2, but is blade switching a major thing or would just the Blade + Driver combo be "gimmicky" enough by itself for Smash?
Blades in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 are weapons and different blades use different weapons for the playable characters to utilise. The problem is that the blade character is always next to the fighter like a cheerleader so it's questionable as to how that would translate to 2D gameplay. For instance, if you hit a blade, does that damage the fighter? And if a fighter is using the blade's weapon, what is the blade going to be using? They could mitigate this by pulling an Ice Climbers where the blade has a duplicate weapon to the fighter.
 

Staarih

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Blades in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 are weapons and different blades use different weapons for the playable characters to utilise. The problem is that the blade character is always next to the fighter like a cheerleader so it's questionable as to how that would translate to 2D gameplay. For instance, if you hit a blade, does that damage the fighter? And if a fighter is using the blade's weapon, what is the blade going to be using? They could mitigate this by pulling an Ice Climbers where the blade has a duplicate weapon to the fighter.
I think they'll find a way to make it work if they want to, whether it be an Ice Climbers or a Pokemon Trainer situation. If you ask me, I'd say Rex would be the one taking the damage while the blade just just follow wherever they decide to place them.

I was moreso just thinking if the actual switching of blades inside a match is a crucial thing regarding XC2, or if a one blade + driver combo at a time is enough (and suggesting if an alt situation for Pyra/Mythra would work).
 

fogbadge

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I was moreso just thinking if the actual switching of blades inside a match is a crucial thing regarding XC2, or if a one blade + driver combo at a time is enough (and suggesting if an alt situation for Pyra/Mythra would work).
well you have up to three blades on a driver at any given time, rex is unique as due to being able to freely switch between pyra and mythra he technically has four. so switching between blades is a major battle mechanic which you can use to deal massive damage. which is why most fans think you should be able to freely switch between the pair.
 

meleebrawler

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I think they'll find a way to make it work if they want to, whether it be an Ice Climbers or a Pokemon Trainer situation. If you ask me, I'd say Rex would be the one taking the damage while the blade just just follow wherever they decide to place them.

I was moreso just thinking if the actual switching of blades inside a match is a crucial thing regarding XC2, or if a one blade + driver combo at a time is enough (and suggesting if an alt situation for Pyra/Mythra would work).
I would say that technically, it isn't crucial, it's just that pulling off advanced moves without it is near impossible for all but the most self-sufficient or broken of blades (re: Mythra).

You also have to consider Shulk himself barely, if ever uses the aspects that required teamwork in his own game, like Break-Topple-Daze chains, and chain attacks being relegated to a Final Smash. It's safe to say Rex would be similar, and forego both Driver and Blade combos.

On the other hand, Rex's Aegis blades are unique in blade switching in that there is no cooldown on switching between Pyra and Mythra, and said switching does not actually change Rex's moves or weapon, only the stat buffs he gets and the specials Pyra or Mythra themselves use, making that easier to implement than it sounds.
 

Arthur97

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Yeah, I don't really foresee any other blades being added. Pyra and Mythra work since it'd be mostly tweaks to stats and maybe a few different moves (like smash attacks in my take being different moves). It would keep Rex relatively fresh while incorporating a key mechanic from the game and letting both Aegis girls in as well while being not super taxing on development though Pyra and Mythra would both need to be animated and voiced, but fortunately they don't actually do that much that needs to be animated. You could dive deeper with timed hits or canceling, which maybe they will, maybe they won't, but switching between Pyra and Mythra seems like the best and most obvious course of action. At least as far as bang for your buck goes.

I do hope they don't just use Chain Attack as the FS. Similarity to Shulk's aside, I'm not even sure they're as well suited for a FS given how they work in 2. Besides, I'd rather have a level IV, either it changes depending on blade (if Ryu and Ken can have two) or they use...that. Maybe also have two for it being proximity based, but that may be asking for too much.
 
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meleebrawler

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Yeah, I don't really foresee any other blades being added. Pyra and Mythra work since it'd be mostly tweaks to stats and maybe a few different moves (like smash attacks in my take being different moves). It would keep Rex relatively fresh while incorporating a key mechanic from the game and letting both Aegis girls in as well while being not super taxing on development though Pyra and Mythra would both need to be animated and voiced, but fortunately they don't actually do that much that needs to be animated. You could dive deeper with timed hits or canceling, which maybe they will, maybe they won't, but switching between Pyra and Mythra seems like the best and most obvious course of action. At least as far as bang for your buck goes.

I do hope they don't just use Chain Attack as the FS. Similarity to Shulk's aside, I'm not even sure they're as well suited for a FS given how they work in 2. Besides, I'd rather have a level IV, either it changes depending on blade (if Ryu and Ken can have two) or they use...that. Maybe also have two for it being proximity based, but that may be asking for too much.
I mean, a perfectly executed Chain Attack in 2 ends with a level 4 anyway, so I don't see why you couldn't have the best of both worlds here. You could probably have Pyra and Mythra's normal level 4s usable normally if scaled down a bit in length and scope; after all Terry can use super-level attacks when he fulfills the right conditions.
 

Arthur97

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I mean, a perfectly executed Chain Attack in 2 ends with a level 4 anyway, so I don't see why you couldn't have the best of both worlds here. You could probably have Pyra and Mythra's normal level 4s usable normally if scaled down a bit in length and scope; after all Terry can use super-level attacks when he fulfills the right conditions.
Hmm, fair, though unfortunately they probably won't have Zeke and Morag in it. They may have to speed it up though, which they did do for Shulk's. 2's generally didn't have as many attacks if done optimally either (since they hard cap you anyway) so maybe it could flow into a more flashy finisher. Could work.

Does anyone know what happens if Rex gets the all out attack in a chain attack when using Pneuma and it's not NG+? Does it just use the level III?
 

Nihilem

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I believe it's more of a hidden agenda of some people not liking one of the characters and trying to pass off their disdain as logical.
If thats referiing to me - I dont have anything against Mythra or her implementation. I just dont believe she believe she will be in. As long as the moveset is fun and truthful the rex as a character I dont care if the do the swapping thing or something else - heck they could also implement Rex´s other blades into the moveset - I would certaily not complain.

Blades in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 are weapons and different blades use different weapons for the playable characters to utilise. The problem is that the blade character is always next to the fighter like a cheerleader so it's questionable as to how that would translate to 2D gameplay. For instance, if you hit a blade, does that damage the fighter? And if a fighter is using the blade's weapon, what is the blade going to be using? They could mitigate this by pulling an Ice Climbers where the blade has a duplicate weapon to the fighter.
Well the most true to XC2 implementation would be the pokemon Trainer route were the blades are in the background and untouchable. Only to be called to action when certain moves are performed. If thats the most fun gameplay can certainly be discussed....
 

meleebrawler

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Hmm, fair, though unfortunately they probably won't have Zeke and Morag in it. They may have to speed it up though, which they did do for Shulk's. 2's generally didn't have as many attacks if done optimally either (since they hard cap you anyway) so maybe it could flow into a more flashy finisher. Could work.

Does anyone know what happens if Rex gets the all out attack in a chain attack when using Pneuma and it's not NG+? Does it just use the level III?
Not sure what exactly you're worried about here, Shulk's updated Chain Attack in Ultimate broke the 3-member limit. I haven't played the game since that special level 4 was patched in, but Ultimate has a tendency to make Final Smashes enhanced versions of existing moves so it could easily be used even if was not used in that capacity originally.
 

PSIGuy

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Ultimate's DLC Final Smashes are literally all just 11 second pre-rendered cutscenes, who gives a damn what happens in them?

Well the most true to XC2 implementation would be the pokemon Trainer route were the blades are in the background and untouchable. Only to be called to action when certain moves are performed. If thats the most fun gameplay can certainly be discussed....
It's not really Pokemon Trainer when you're pulling the character in from the background for a single attack and then sending them back again, is it? That's kind of disorienting as a visual.
 

Arthur97

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Not sure what exactly you're worried about here, Shulk's updated Chain Attack in Ultimate broke the 3-member limit. I haven't played the game since that special level 4 was patched in, but Ultimate has a tendency to make Final Smashes enhanced versions of existing moves so it could easily be used even if was not used in that capacity originally.
Yeah, but she was kind of just lumped in. The question was more just for the base game. Curious as to what happened.
Ultimate's DLC Final Smashes are literally all just 11 second pre-rendered cutscenes, who gives a damn what happens in them?


It's not really Pokemon Trainer when you're pulling the character in from the background for a single attack and then sending them back again, is it? That's kind of disorienting as a visual.
I do. Even if I might have more elaborate ideas, and a cinematic actually fits with Rex rather well.

Also, they even deal with that in the game with them just kind of warping next to Rex for level IV specials even if its' not actually one of their abilities. Either way, they have an animation flare for it. It's not that jarring.
 
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fogbadge

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Well the most true to XC2 implementation would be the pokemon Trainer route were the blades are in the background and untouchable. Only to be called to action when certain moves are performed. If thats the most fun gameplay can certainly be discussed....
most true to XC2 would be to have them of the battlefield but completely unaffected by all attacks
 

Nihilem

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most true to XC2 would be to have them of the battlefield but completely unaffected by all attacks
You mean as in they cant run through her or she blocks projectiles? Do they blade actually block enemies in XC2?
 

Bobthealligator

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I think there's a few different levels of compromise they could try:

The ideal is Rex & Aegis fighting Ice Climbers style (both are actual 'fighters', affected by knockback properly, have moves that require them to be together, gimping one and then focusing on the other is a valid tactic etc). This would be the most work but also be the most fun and most interesting.
If that doesn't work, downgrade to Rosalina & Luma style (Rex is an actual fighter, Aegis gets set knockback and more static movements, mirrors Rex's attacks and specials, managing their position relative to you is needed with a recall etc). This is a good compromise.
If THAT doesn't work... Pokemon Trainer 'style' (they run around in the background doing nothing of note, maybe switch places during Blade Specials). This would be kinda lame, honestly, but it'd get them in.

I can't see them immediately giving up just because their first idea can't be fully realized.
I kind of hope Delzethin's concept is the direction they take, that's probably the best way to combine the two.
 

Arthur97

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You mean as in they cant run through her or she blocks projectiles? Do they blade actually block enemies in XC2?
Blades have no hurtboxes in XC2 unless they are the target such was when Brighid is fought without Morag present. Not even sure if they provide any meaningful collision in fights. Like, you generally can't walk through them, but just kind of push them out of the way.
 

Arthur97

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Why does the interface look like that? Those are not the arts icons I remember. Or action time interface.
 

Starlight Liger

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Rex/Pyra and Rex/Mythra would justify five voice clips instead of just four.
 

Arthur97

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They can also add those slots as needed. Shouldn't read too much into it.

Also, they could be lumped together like Banjo and Kazooie. There's precedent for separate and lumped.
 

Hollywoodrok12

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So I took way longer than I should have, but I finally beat the game!

But now I have some big questions about how Rex would be if he were to get in.

Most importantly, which blades would he end up using? Obviously, Pyra is a shoe-in, but things get more complicated with the others. Do you think Sakurai would/should include (minor spoilers, specifically Ch. 3) Mythra, (major Ch. 3/4 Spoilers) Roc and (major Spoilers period, but Ch. 7 specifically) Nia? There's also his Master Driver outfit that could be a potential alt if they do go the spoilers route
 

PLANTMAN

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So I took way longer than I should have, but I finally beat the game!

But now I have some big questions about how Rex would be if he were to get in.

Most importantly, which blades would he end up using? Obviously, Pyra is a shoe-in, but things get more complicated with the others. Do you think Sakurai would/should include (minor spoilers, specifically Ch. 3) Mythra, (major Ch. 3/4 Spoilers) Roc and (major Spoilers period, but Ch. 7 specifically) Nia? There's also his Master Driver outfit that could be a potential alt if they do go the spoilers route
mythra ain’t a spoiler

And maybe not roc too
 

Arthur97

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So I took way longer than I should have, but I finally beat the game!

But now I have some big questions about how Rex would be if he were to get in.

Most importantly, which blades would he end up using? Obviously, Pyra is a shoe-in, but things get more complicated with the others. Do you think Sakurai would/should include (minor spoilers, specifically Ch. 3) Mythra, (major Ch. 3/4 Spoilers) Roc and (major Spoilers period, but Ch. 7 specifically) Nia? There's also his Master Driver outfit that could be a potential alt if they do go the spoilers route
Mythra, most likely. The least work really as the basic moveset doesn't have to change radically which is probably the other two's biggest downsides.

The final one could make for a good FS.
 

Starlight Liger

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So I took way longer than I should have, but I finally beat the game!

But now I have some big questions about how Rex would be if he were to get in.

Most importantly, which blades would he end up using? Obviously, Pyra is a shoe-in, but things get more complicated with the others. Do you think Sakurai would/should include (minor spoilers, specifically Ch. 3) Mythra, (major Ch. 3/4 Spoilers) Roc and (major Spoilers period, but Ch. 7 specifically) Nia? There's also his Master Driver outfit that could be a potential alt if they do go the spoilers route
Easy, Pyra/Mythra, Male Common Blade and Animal Common Blade. What better way to highlight the Blade mechanics than to get the common Blades involved in Rex's combat.
 

Arthur97

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I don't know, unless they for some reason do a pulling mechanic, why waste the effort for movesets just for common blades?
 

fogbadge

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ok guys having a full set of blades is unlikely, the team doesnt seem to have time to make multiple models and rex, pyra, mythra is already three so him having a full set of four blades just ain happening
 

Starlight Liger

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I don't know, unless they for some reason do a pulling mechanic, why waste the effort for movesets just for common blades?
Because not only do Common Blade highlight the main gameplay mechanic of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 but they're also non-spoiler blades.

Alternatively, Rare Blades like Wulfric and Kassandra could be used as they're both Blades that don't spoil the game but have more significance that most Rare Blades.
 

Arthur97

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Because not only do Common Blade highlight the main gameplay mechanic of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 but they're also non-spoiler blades.

Alternatively, Rare Blades like Wulfric and Kassandra could be used as they're both Blades that don't spoil the game but have more significance that most Rare Blades.
Kassandra is an optional blade not having hardly any actual significance.

And let's be real, Fiora is in Shulk's final smash, spirits revealing Metal Face's identity, and Lucina is pretty much a walking spoiler. Do you really think they care that much about spoilers? No, if anything it'd probably be gameplay, cause why make three different movesets when you can make 1.5 and still get something unique?
 

Starlight Liger

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Kassandra is an optional blade not having hardly any actual significance.

And let's be real, Fiora is in Shulk's final smash, spirits revealing Metal Face's identity, and Lucina is pretty much a walking spoiler. Do you really think they care that much about spoilers? No, if anything it'd probably be gameplay, cause why make three different movesets when you can make 1.5 and still get something unique?
Do you really think Tetsuya Takahashi is going to happily let Sakurai give spoiler Blades to Rex? Remember, Nintendo is choosing the DLC for the fighter's pass, and as shown by Cloud and Hero, the developers associated with the character being featured in Smash have a say as to how their character would be portrayed.
 

Arthur97

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Do you really think Tetsuya Takahashi is going to happily let Sakurai give spoiler Blades to Rex? Remember, Nintendo is choosing the DLC for the fighter's pass, and as shown by Cloud and Hero, the developers associated with the character being featured in Smash have a say as to how their character would be portrayed.
Cloud...was 4. Don't think they ever said that about 4's DLC.

And yet they put Mecha Fiora before DE came out. If memory serves, even Joker having a grappling hook was an ability he hadn't had yet. Again, Lucina's identity is a spoiler and yet they don't really shy away from her being Chrom's daughter. I'd say the possibility is there for a certain appearance in the FS, but I don't think the other would make it either way as I doubt they'll do more blades than the Aegis girls. However, don't think that spoilers are off limits by any means. Especially with it being some three to four years old by that point.
 

Starlight Liger

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Cloud...was 4. Don't think they ever said that about 4's DLC.

And yet they put Mecha Fiora before DE came out. If memory serves, even Joker having a grappling hook was an ability he hadn't had yet. Again, Lucina's identity is a spoiler and yet they don't really shy away from her being Chrom's daughter. I'd say the possibility is there for a certain appearance in the FS, but I don't think the other would make it either way as I doubt they'll do more blades than the Aegis girls. However, don't think that spoilers are off limits by any means. Especially with it being some three to four years old by that point.
The point I'm making is that the developer has influence as to how the fighter is portrayed. Some developers are fine with spoilers associated with their characters whilst others would rather not have their character demonstrate something that's considered a spoiler. You can't really use Xenoblade as an example as the original game released in 2010. And despite the game being three/four years old, Nintendo would rather maximise sales of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 by being spoiler-free as oppose to minimise sales just because the spoiler Blades are easily available options as part of Rex's moveset.
 

meleebrawler

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The point I'm making is that the developer has influence as to how the fighter is portrayed. Some developers are fine with spoilers associated with their characters whilst others would rather not have their character demonstrate something that's considered a spoiler. You can't really use Xenoblade as an example as the original game released in 2010. And despite the game being three/four years old, Nintendo would rather maximise sales of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 by being spoiler-free as oppose to minimise sales just because the spoiler Blades are easily available options as part of Rex's moveset.
Buddy, this is 2020. We spoil things before they even come out, because we can.

Do you know about Monster Hunter's "forbidden dragons"? Until the franchise's most recent anniversary you would never find any official art for them nor would they ever be discussed by the developers. That this ban has been lifted speaks a lot about this current era where trying to keep secrets like that is now a largely fruitless endeavor.
 
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Starlight Liger

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Buddy, this is 2020. We spoil things before they even come out, because we can.

Do you know about Monster Hunter's "forbidden dragons"? Until the franchise's most recent anniversary you would never find any official art for them nor would they ever be discussed by the developers. That this ban has been lifted speaks a lot about this current era where trying to keep secrets like that is now a largely fruitless endeavor.
What does that have to do with this? You're comparing Capcom's policies to Monolith Soft's policies.
 

PSIGuy

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Do you really think Tetsuya Takahashi is going to happily let Sakurai give spoiler Blades to Rex?
I really don't think he'd give a ****, dude.

He was asked about an XCX character being in Smash and his response was "Ask Sakurai". His stance on any game he's already made is "I'm already thinking of what I'm doing next".
 
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RawkHawk2010

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Just a reminder that Mecha-Fiora and Metal Face were the characters used to represent Xenoblade in Project X Zone 2, and I don't understand why five years separating XC1 and PXZ2 would be categorized differently compared to the four years that may separate XC2 and Rex getting into Smash.

The only difference is that for XC1 the relevant console had been phased out during that period, but XC3D had come out just months prior to PXZ2 and so Mecha-Fiora's inclusion was actually directly marketing a new release of the game that an insufficient number of people played originally.
 
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