Revenge affects shieldstun on attacks, true shieldstun combos

Browny

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#1
This is important to know. I read yesterday and tested, a full powered revenge nair sweetspot on shield is something like +2 on shield, so you have 2 frames to act before they can do anything at all. Given that Lariat is frame 5 and shield drop is 7, jumping is 3, this means that there is nothing an opponent can do before the lariat comes out and a shielded nair shieldlocks the opponent into Darkest Lariat or a grab if they are near the edge. And of course, a full revenge boosted lariat does a lot of damage... The enemy either takes 45-60% from lariat, gets grabbed and is taking 50% from bthrow or gets their shield broken, they have to pick one.

If not done on the edge of the stage the enemy can DI away but they are still stuck at a -2 disadvantage. So they have to commit to either a jump out of shield or a spot/roll dodge if they want to get away. A second nair covers a few of these options but chances are the enemy is going to try and roll away, its a good thing you have a move that does 75% than can catch rolls.

However, this isn't true on a non-full powered revenge nair. It all changes but the point remains Incineroars moves are safer on shield with revenge. If you have revenge active, you can afford to be a bit more risky with his attacks on shield. Just pay attention as to whether the enemy can punish it or not. Characters with slow jabs/tilts and low range grabs will have absolutely nothing they can do about it, except perfect shield of course.
 

Browny

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#5
Got a lot of footage of how this works, I'll make a video tomorrow.

Let's just say, you might want to consider using your revenge on Darkest Lariat, instead of Alolan Whip if you corner the enemy.
 

strike42

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#6
Got a lot of footage of how this works, I'll make a video tomorrow.

Let's just say, you might want to consider using your revenge on Darkest Lariat, instead of Alolan Whip if you corner the enemy.
Does it just bust their shield or shield poke them because of the high shield stun?
 

Z1GMA

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#9
So, it increases Shield Stun, but not Shield Damage. That's interesting and a bit odd.
Cool Stuff, Browny.
I wonder if boosted FF Bair can do some nice shenaningans.
 

Browny

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#10
So, it increases Shield Stun, but not Shield Damage. That's interesting and a bit odd.
Cool Stuff, Browny.
I wonder if boosted FF Bair can do some nice shenaningans.
Sorry if I implied that, but no it certainly does increase shield damage. It's not proportional though. Like if you hit a shield with mewtwos fair 4 times in a row it should certainly break (52% or so) but an Incineroar fsmash tipper doing over 100% won't break a full health shield.
 

Luigifan18

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#11
So, it increases Shield Stun, but not Shield Damage. That's interesting and a bit odd.
Cool Stuff, Browny.
I wonder if boosted FF Bair can do some nice shenaningans.
Wait, how does Revenge boost damage done to characters and bosses (and presumably destructible items (including Assist Trophies) and stage elements), but not increase damage done to shields?!? More damage is more damage. Is there a shield damage penalty equivalent to the damage boost? If so, that's pretty stupid. Besides, isn't Incineroar supposed to punish shield-reliant players with his strong throws and Alolan Whip?
 
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Z1GMA

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#12
Tested some stuff with a friend. If you have a big boost, FF Bair>B Reversed DL can break shields.
You gotta be lucky to get this opportunity tho. Cool nonetheless.

FF strong Nair > DL works too, but not on fresh shields.
 

Big O

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#13
Ya I played around a lot with this a while back. It does increase shield damage, but only slightly. The shieldstun, shield pushback, and attacker recoil all seem to scale normally though which leads to hilarious interactions. The recoil can push you off an edge, canceling the attack's endlag and allowing you to shield combo into an aerial (super impractical spacing/timing required). It looked like it could open up shield combos into Alolan Whip, but it doesn't seem to work.
 

Z1GMA

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#14
A big boost can definitely let u avoid being Shield Grabbed, even at point blank (aka horrible spacing) which is funny.

Ya I played around a lot with this a while back. It does increase shield damage, but only slightly. The shieldstun, shield pushback, and attacker recoil all seem to scale normally though which leads to hilarious interactions. The recoil can push you off an edge, canceling the attack's endlag and allowing you to shield combo into an aerial (super impractical spacing/timing required). It looked like it could open up shield combos into Alolan Whip, but it doesn't seem to work.
Hello, Big O. Long time no see!
 

Big O

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#15
When at max revenge, SH lariat can shield lock against tall characters on it's own. The attacker recoil won't happen in the air, so it more reliably shield combos into itself at higher revenge stacks.

A big boost can definitely let u avoid being Shield Grabbed, even at point blank (aka horrible spacing) which is funny.

Hello, Big O. Long time no see!
Sup Zigma. Sorry for the late reply. I've been pretty busy lately.
 
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