Retro Link, anyone? (Anti WW Link)

[Vagrant Lustoid]

Hey Bendu, did you ever end up reading the Adventurer Link you challenged someone to do? I wanna know what you think of it.

 

[Bendu]

It's not that I particularly hate WW Link. It's that I hate the idea of that level of overkill.

#1-Two Links in Super Smash Bros. was overkill in the first place. I think a lot of people will agree that Young Link was a pretty strange addition and didn't really add anything. Furthermore, unlike Dr. Mario and Mario. Young Link and Link were from the exact same game (at least their character models came from the same games.)

#2-The likelihood that 2 Links will appear in SSBB is still appearing to be pretty good. Even though a lot of people (myself included) would be pretty happy to simply say, "Eh, no, you don't need two Links. That's just overkill."

#3-Specifically, focusing only on the new is even more overkill than focusing on the old and new. At least with having an older version of Link, along with the recent, you can look at it and say "Well, that makes sense, Link is a character who's changed more than any other Nintendo character, it makes sense that they show him as he was 15 years ago as well as how he is now." But when looking at WW Link and TP Link in the same game, it's not quite as bad as looking at two Links from the same game, but still. You know what I mean.

#4-I don't dislike the WW Link himself. It's kind of hard to actually dislike a character who never talks and has almost no characterization. But the games that WW Link represents is not as important (IMO) as an older version of Link. Besides, WW Link debuted on a system that had relatively little support at the time (I was one of the only people I know who had a Gamecube, and it was the least popular system) and TP Link is definitely getting so much attention because he's the flagship representative of a hugely popular system.


Edit: Oh, ya, Vagrant. I totally had forgotten about that. I did read it. The Fairy Spell in particular was a good touch. I figured you would just use the Jump Spell for that. I also love the Raft, haha. The Raft and the Ladder were always my favorite Zelda items, just cause they had such limited uses that they amused me.

 

[Fawriel]

Aaaahhhh I can't agree there. I think what you are missing is that WW Link is a completely different part of the franchise.

Legend of Zelda has evolved into two directions: The darker and the lighter. Both wackiness and seriousness are present in all the games, but you can definitely see that TP, Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, for example, abound in seriousness.
WW Link represents the wacky side... which is growing.
He's not just WW Link anymore, this very Link is now the protagonist of THE most recent Zelda game, Phantom Hourglass, which is popular as heck. And the design, the cell-shading, big eyes and short limbs and so on, have grown into their own part of the franchise, being incorporated into Minish Cap, Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures.
I even recall that Miyamoto, the creator of Zelda, stated that he prefers the Wind Waker style.

I think it would not be awkward in the least to have representatives of these two very different faces of their franchise. Twilight Princess Link is TP Link, but Wind Waker Link is not just WW Link. He's so much more. It would be a travesty to ignore him.

 

[Bendu]

Phantom Hourglass may be popular. But I don't believe for a second that it's even close to TP in terms of popularity. The hype machine on PH was nothing compared to the hype machine on TP.

Minish Cap and Four Swords are both also pretty minor additions to the series that are overlooked by many.

We have a lot of Zelda fans here, just because they know a lot about the handheld Zelda games, not everybody does.

I still think that the biggest game that WW Link was in was WW, just look at all the hype for WW. They gave away old Zelda games for preordering WW! (As a matter of fact, I've started Master Quest all over again recently.) That game was pushed on people, because it was console Zelda. And console Zelda has always taken priority over handheld Zelda. Kind of like how handheld Pokemon always takes priority over console Pokemon.

 

[Fawriel]

That's fine and all, but they are still official games and my point about the two faces of the franchise stands.
Not to mention that I heard TP wasn't very popular in Japan... although I can't prove that.

So... yeah.
I guess our argument comes to a standstill.
No hard feelings, right? *offers to shake hand*

 

[Bendu]

Of course no hard feelings. I'm just not a very nice guy, and I let people know whenever they're jumping to conclusions or overreacting or whatever. I just do it in a harsh way.

And I don't have much idea how TP did in Japan. I don't know how well it did in America really. Either. Except that everyone I know who bought a Wii (which is a lot, lot more than the people I knew who had Gamecubes last generation) all bought TP as their very first purchase.

I also know it didn't really do it for me. I was doing an indepth review of the Wii launch for my school newspaper, (which was a pretty involved, serious thing, I was the editor of the entertainment section.) So I borrowed his Wii for a few days, and played through a fair amount of TP, most of Trauma Center, and a few levels of Call of Duty 3. I also got to show off my "Zelda sense" to all my friends by knowing what to do everywhere I went in that game just cause it was Zelda. But aaaaanyway. I think I gave TP a B+ or something like that. I enjoyed Trauma Center a lot more. Dang that game was fun.

 

[silver777]

Why do you think Japanese gamers have responded so much more strongly to The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass for the DS than to The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess for the Wii?

The biggest factor must be that, in Japan, the gaming population has already been expanded. The sheer installment base of Nintendo DS is huge, far larger than that of Wii, and so many Japanese, regardless of gender, age and past game experiences, are now playing with Nintendo DS. We really wanted to make software that can be appreciated by the core gamers and casual gamers alike, and the sales so far appear to be showing that many Japanese are enjoying this new handheld Zelda.


PH is more popular and more received than TP.

source

 

[Bendu]

I guess I stand corrected. At least if I was in Japan I stand corrected. Here in the US I just stand, I guess.

But still, it's a pretty good point. I'd be an idiot to not admit that popularity in Japan is as big (if not more) of a factor as worldwide popularity.

But it's still not like TP Link and WW Link are competing, since TP Link is already in the game...

 

[ylink_underestimted]

i still think WW will make it tho. dont get me wrong tho, i like yer idea for retro link (n i know u think he wont even be in it) but i think the majority of people would see it as a costume.

 

[Bassoonist]

i still think WW will make it tho. dont get me wrong tho, i like yer idea for retro link (n i know u think he wont even be in it) but i think the majority of people would see it as a costume.

I'd rather see WW Link as a costume (however impossible that'd be to do.), or better yet, lets stay with one Link.

 

[ylink_underestimted]

ook. wuut ever. n jus to say again WW Link and Link are different people. but wouldnt really make a difference to u, would it Andrew?

 

[Bassoonist]

According to the game, yes... but it doesn't really matter. Since they're both "Links". You know what I mean. Many of the movesets I've seen created have been way to similar to regular Link's. Who's to say Sakurai wouldn't do the same thing?

 

[behemoth]

Just to throw a monkeywrench in the works, someone (I think it was Bendu) said it was hard to generate emotion for a character (WW link) who doesn't speak, etc. TP aside, there has never been a more expressive Link, simply because it's much easier to animate drawn expressions than polygonal faces.

I'm not a huge fan of WW, I'll admit it's because Im a retro gamer, and am stuck on ALttP, but that's not to say the visual style didn't have its advantages.

I personally am impressed with the case you've made for a classic link character, those are extremely interesting movesets. How well they would play, what tier they would make it into is another subject, one that I am not nearly capable of tackling. Well done.

~behemoth

 

[Bendu]

Just to throw a monkeywrench in the works, someone (I think it was Bendu) said it was hard to generate emotion for a character (WW link) who doesn't speak, etc. TP aside, there has never been a more expressive Link, simply because it's much easier to animate drawn expressions than polygonal faces.

I'm not a huge fan of WW, I'll admit it's because Im a retro gamer, and am stuck on ALttP, but that's not to say the visual style didn't have its advantages.

I personally am impressed with the case you've made for a classic link character, those are extremely interesting movesets. How well they would play, what tier they would make it into is another subject, one that I am not nearly capable of tackling. Well done.

~behemoth

I never really said it was hard to generate emotion and expression for the character. I just said that it's hard for me to actually hate a character who never speaks and doesn't have any characterization (because even in WW, the characterization of Link is very minimal.)

If anyone's going to ever "hate" a character, then Link is probably the most ridiculous one to hate. He's basically just an empty image for the player to control. That's why instead of thinking about how "cool" the different Links are for Smash, I've been trying to think of what they represent to the game and to their respective installments of the series.

 

[Arteen]

I also thought the retro Link style would look great in Brawl, but I'm fine with TP Link as the older Link and WW Link as a possible young Link. I prefer the Oracle style myself, if only for his use of pants.

 

[Drik Khaail]

ANTI WW LINK FTW!!11one! ...2?

 

[Pluvia's other account]

WW Link could have a completely different moveset, such as his Skull Hammer, his Deku Leaf and his Grapple Hook. Plus his bow could choose between 4 different arrows to shoot randomly:

B:

Normal Arrows: 35%
(Shoots an arrow at the foe)
Fire Arrows: 25%
(Shoot a fire arrow at the foe, more damaging the the Normal and Ice, dramatic WW fire effects, foe catches fire)
Ice Arrows: 25%
(Shoots an ice arrow at the foe, dramatic WW ice effects, freezes opponent)
Light Arrows: 15%
(Shoots a light arrow at the foe, dramatic WW light effects, highly damaging, stuns opponent shortly)

B-Side:

Skull Hammer

(Like Kirby's hammer, except slightly slower and deals much more damage)

B-Down:

Deku Leaf

(Sends out a blast of air across the screen, knocking back any projectiles or players caught in its path, can also be used as a recovery move, in the same way it was in WW)

B-Up:

Either,

Grapple Hook

(Grabs the nearest foe and pulls them close, grabs onto the ledge for recovery)

Or,

Tornado Spin

(Like Link's, except longer and can be used whilst move side-to-side)

 

[ylink_underestimted]

@Pluvia: this is a Retro Link thread, moreover an Anti-WW Link.
look at my sig for more details (the one that says WW Link moveset)
hope u wont get too flamed for this dude

 

[Kye L]

Oof, Retro Link? Well, I agree that there shouldn't be any WW Link in Brawl.

As I see it, we already have Link, and yes, there are many Link's and they all have potential for very different movesets, but that can be said about many characters - such as Mario, Samus, Pikachu, Donkey Kong and even Ness - but you can't have it all. Link is enough to 'represent' all Links.

'sides, if there should be any Link in Brawl besides Link, it should be...I dunno, Handheld Link or something, using all the crazy items in the handheld games (like the Magnetic Gloves, the Cane of Pacci and the Rod of Seasons...o_O).

 

[Pluvia's other account]

@Pluvia: this is a Retro Link thread, moreover an Anti-WW Link.
look at my sig for more details (the one that says WW Link moveset)
hope u wont get too flamed for this dude

Oh well i'm guessing that there is like a 2% chance of retro link being a character. WW Link is newer and was from a great game, plus he won't be a clone. So he has a FAR better chance at getting in.

 

[Kye L]

Oh well i'm guessing that there is like a 2% chance of retro link being a character. WW Link is newer and was from a great game, plus he won't be a clone. So he has a FAR better chance at getting in.

Retro Link is from a (no, several!) great game as well, and he wouldn't be clone either. So it's a matter of which you think is more important; seniority or recensy.

 

[PitIcarus]

Link looked like a d-bag in the old artwork. So please god no.

 

[axemangx]

Wow, he got alot of junk in his trunk.

 

[ylink_underestimted]

seeing how this is still called the Anti WW Link thread, see what people have to say in the Wind Waker Link Moves thread (click on the link). i only say this because it seems that not many people go here (*cough*) but end up debating in the actual CS Link thread. there are some good arguments as to why CS Link would be in Brawl so if anyone wants to actually see them check it out there (the arguments im pretty sure are mostly around the recent pages)

 

[paralasalud]

i LOVE this idea.
reminded me so much of link to the past.

don't know if it's been mentioned, but he should get the titan mitt from link to the past and lift boulders and stuff.

 

[courte]

yea...what?? run that by me again--sorry nvm um good luck to your cause i guess

I don't think this is a good idea, let me tell you why, mainly because it would be a clone of twilight princess Link, personally I'm not in for any Link other than the adult one, why would people want WW Link, Retro Link, Fierce-Deity Link, Young Link and "normal" Link in the game, do you realize how many character spaces are being wasted with that?

you seem to know alot for someone who isn't working on the game...

 

[Cosine]

Can people stop saying this, the reason they used TP's model because its the brst looking model, it really repersents all links, the same with Zelda, she should still be able to become sheik because it dosn't matter. And fo those who say this post just proves I don't know what Im talking about, they just added up B the ability to charge from Oot, and MM, not from TP.

 

[shinhed-echi]

As much as I adore Link's Awakening... I can't say I like the idea of having two Links again...


But it sure beats the heck out of having WW Link, IMO.

I liked that moveset, but he should still have the spin attack, and add the feature of energy reflecting (like it used to) with it.

As for the Final Smash... I doubt playing instruments could do any harm XD (Though I'd die to listen to a remastered version of the Ballad of the Wind Fish), A final smash for retro Link could be casting Bombos, Ether, and Earthquake at random.


My dream Young Link would be one to represent them all.. A Young Link with moves taken from many of his games.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Well, WW Link IS the most common version of Link in the series' history.