Regarding Tech

[HelloAxi]

So my friend plays a ton of squirtle and during our sessions we've come across things that we haven't seen squirtle players use all that much and I want to know if this stuff is already discovered. For instance along with TACUS is the down smash and forward smash discovered? What about grab? You can do those things while rocketing across stage too. There's another thing where you do the full turnaround (let's say left then right) where when you start heading right during the last few frames you dash left again and cancel it. This essentially makes a much better dash dance for squirtle that can be extended as far as desired and throw out the turnaround hitbox which will combo into grab or up tilt or anything really on confirm. We've just referred to it as shell dancing. This is actually very very good in pressure situations. Additionally the fade back downtilt/jab. This might just be a half moonwalk or a thign with crawl mechanics but if you hold down then down back and hit A you will slide at least a character space or two backwards if done perfectly and throw out a retreating jab/dtilt which is amazing at calling rolls or pressuring shield and returning to safety. This can be done together where you shell dance (hitting shield with turnaround) and then hit shield again, possibly poking with a safe dtilt. A few other things as well. If you guys are unsure of this we can try and record and post some footage.

 

[~Dad~]

You should look around at some of the other threads on this board, all of that is well known and several of us implement it into our games.

 

[HelloAxi]

What's the name of the dash dance-esque tech? These boards are a mess of unique names.

 

[Cloudburst]

Squirtle's turnaround animation is called shellshifting.

 

[shinyskarmory]

What's the name of the dash dance-esque tech? These boards are a mess of unique names.

As a Squirtle main this drives me crazy lol

I still don't understand what the difference between any of the "hydro-" names is, I just say "that thing where squirtle slides a mile and pivot grabs" or "that frame-perfect thing where squirtle turns around and slides but can do anything".

I would propose a new "standard" terminology but that would 100% result in just another name for every tech that everyone has to be confused about. Best thing we could probably do is come up with a name for Shellsling JC grab that is sufficiently different from hydropivot/hydrocrawl techs. Right now Shellsling JC grab is called "hydrograb" which implies that the tech involves a hydropivot/crawl when it doesn't.

 

[Ascelesce]

As a Squirtle main this drives me crazy lol

Right now Shellsling JC grab is called "hydrograb" which implies that the tech involves a hydropivot/crawl when it doesn't.

Hydro grab implies that the move occurs during the hydroplane window of shellshift, which it does

 

[shinyskarmory]

Hydro grab implies that the move occurs during the hydroplane window of shellshift, which it does

Just so we're clear, hydroplane grab and reverse hydroplane up smash both describe the same jump cancel out of shellshift, right? That's completely different from hydropivot or hydrocrawl, neither of which involve jumping. Shellsling jump cancel Usmash/grab and hydropivot/hydrocrawl are mechanically and fundamentally different techs, and having both categories share the same "hydro" prefix is both misleading and confusing.

(The other reason I'm pushing this so hard is because I'm putting together a skeleton Squirtle guide and making tech names reflect the input method more than the result will make learning our tech tree easier)

 

[HelloAxi]

I mean this
https://youtu.be/OoH6QwJ-iDU?t=32
It is pretty helpful. it allows your to poke shields with the shellshift and then cancel it into another shell shift or a grab. Shell shift leads directly into grab if it hits. Also squirtle gets a great dash dance.

 

[Ascelesce]

Just so we're clear, hydroplane grab and reverse hydroplane up smash both describe the same jump cancel out of shellshift, right? That's completely different from hydropivot or hydrocrawl, neither of which involve jumping. Shellsling jump cancel Usmash/grab and hydropivot/hydrocrawl are mechanically and fundamentally different techs, and having both categories share the same "hydro" prefix is both misleading and confusing.

(

RHUS comes out of the sling jump window. Reverse-hydroplaned= Slingjump. It was probably coined before there was a distinction between hydroplane/slingjump/shellstall. Same reason why shellsling isn't called hydrojump or something. Probably.

 

[shinyskarmory]

RHUS comes out of the sling jump window. Reverse-hydroplaned= Slingjump. It was probably coined before there was a distinction between hydroplane/slingjump/shellstall. Same reason why shellsling isn't called hydrojump or something. Probably.

I think we're actually in agreement here and we're just using different terminology #justsquirtlethings

Seriously though, cleaning up our tech terminology would be nice.

 

[PlateProp]

The terms are fine as is. There's a reason that hydro terms havent changed since brawl

 

[TheGravyTrain]

Seriously, terms are fine once you learn them. The only problems with current system are:
1) The super rar vs slingjump debate, causing a slight difference in like 3 terms or something
2) Rhus is misleading, has hydro, but uses slingjump/super rar window

@shinyskarmony

Cleaning/changing the tree will only cause more problems. Its pretty easy imo. Slingjump window is the early window, can only be canceled into a jump. (so jump, grab (pretty useless), wd, and up smash). Those would be sling jump (or super rar), grab isn't named because its fairly useless, sling dash (or super rar wd), and rhus. Then you have the hydroplane (late) window. You can jump cancel (so the same things as before, but grab and usmash are good, jump/wd aren't too useful imo, more a retreat out of a bad situation). You can also pivot/crawl, which opens up (ez) fsmash/dsmash, as well as manual pivot/crawl for shield, tilts, jabs, technically anything. Then quick shift (enter the pivot one way, initial dash the other), shell stall (really janky/weird, daft says there are applications), calling the whole suite/turnaround/hitbox stuff as shellshift. To me it makes sense, so it bothers me when so many people complain. So I think its because either they don't want to take the time (more of a commentator/other players) or it was poorly explained/misinformation. Not attacking you, just kinda went on a rant.

 

[PlateProp]

Ay dont you go ****ting on the super pivot grab. That ****'s actually good @ TheGravyTrain

 

[TheGravyTrain]

At a glance in my head it didn't seem great and I've never heard people discuss its uses. I would understand if it had uses, I just didn't know anyone that experimented with it.