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Redesigning Smash 64's roster

Butters Stotch

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 17, 2021
Messages
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South Park, Colorado
There have been threads like this for the rest of the Smash games and the series as a whole, but not Smash 64 on its own, hence this thread. Rules?
  • You can have a total of 12 characters; eight unique, one full clone, one semi-clone, and two mostly unique characters. You can sacrifice the semi-clone and one of the fairly unique characters for another unique character.
  • The clones and mostly unique characters (you can ignore this if you're trading both Ness and Falcon's slots for one) need to reuse models and/or assets from pre-existing characters.
  • Four (three for the above) characters need to be unlockable, but they don't have to be the ones above.
  • The game came out in early 1999, so characters chosen must've debuted in 1998 at the absolute latest.
  • No third parties are allowed, but second parties like Rare (at that time) are acceptable.
  • If you want, you can list the four characters that would've been next in line to get in. Bowser, Marth, Dedede, and Mewtwo were intended to be playable.
I've posted my version of the Smash 64 roster before, but I'll do it again here:
:luigimelee::mariomelee::dkmelee::linkmelee::samusmelee::marthmelee:
:falconmelee::yoshimelee::kirbymelee::warioc::pikachumelee::foxmelee:

The only characters out are Ness and Jigglypuff, with Wario and Marth taking their places. Aside from that, the only difference is that Fox is unlockable instead of Wario. Since the game's budget was low, Wario would be built off of Mario and share a few movements, so I think Fox could be added without having to reuse assets. I don't think everyone will agree with this, but Marth would reuse a lot from Link and be a semi-clone. I never would've added someone like Jigglypuff and Marth is genuinely the only potential semi-clone I can think of this without resorting to a character like Gooey or Falco or reducing the roster size for someone more distinct.

The scrapped characters would've been Bowser (initially planned over Luigi), Ness, Banjo-Kazooie, and uh... Ganondorf? Yeah, I'll stick with him.
 
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Pupp135

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 30, 2020
Messages
255
I’ll do two since I wouldn’t think of putting Master Hand as my 1-P game boss.

If Master Hand is gone:
:mario2::dk2::link2::samus2::yoshi2::kirby2::fox::pikachu2:
:luigi2::bowser2::marth::falcon:

If Master Hand stays:
:mario2::dk2::link2::samus2::yoshi2::kirby2::fox::pikachu2:
:luigi2::marth::falcon::warioc:

Unlock Criteria:

  • Luigi: Same as original
  • Bowser/Wario: Same as Jigglypuff’s
  • Marth: Same as Ness’s
  • Captain Falcon: Same as original

I’ll just explain the things I’ve changed from the original roster:
  • I left out Jigglypuff and Ness from both of these rosters since Jigglypuff wouldn’t be my first thought for a semi-clone, and Marth takes Ness’s spot as the resource heavy unlockable (Falcon still is based on Samus).
  • Marth makes it in because he’d be one of the first 8 characters that I’d consider as Fire Emblem was a relevant franchise (SSB was originally going to be exclusive to Japan), but I’d make him unlockable, so I could have a female (Samus) in my starting roster.
  • In my first situation, Bowser would be the boss at the end of 1-P game, so I could re-use his model and then make him playable.
  • In the second situation, I feel that Wario would’ve been a fitting choice since Wario Land was relevant, and he could easily be based on Mario.
Edit: I changed my mind and decided to make Samus a starter, so there would be a female in the starting roster, and Fire Emblem wasn’t significantly more important than Metroid at the time. Since I would conceive of Marth before Samus, he’d just take Ness’s spot as the mostly unique last minute fighter.
If I had time for four more fighters, I’ll go with Ness, Wario/Bowser, Diddy Kong, and Peach (I thought of adding another Pokemon, but the franchise was still very new at the time).
 
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Wario Wario Wario

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 3, 2017
Messages
3,771
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Jinbe Land
Samus (as she is) is swapped for Duck Hunt.

The mostly unique fighters are Ness and Wario. Wario takes certain moves and animations from DK, albeit edited to fit his pudgy upright posture.

The semi-clone is Muddy Mole, having different special moves but taking most normals from Pikachu.

The full clone is Samus, of Fox.

The unlockable fighters are

  1. Samus - Clear Classic on Very Hard
  2. Ness - Clear Classic on any difficulty with every fighter
  3. Duck Hunt - Clear all starter Target Test levels
  4. Muddy - Clear Classic Mode once
Wario therefore becomes a starter
 
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Joined
Aug 14, 2021
Messages
1,997
Location
GamingCorp, Utah, USA, (20XX Future Timeline)
Samus (as she is) is swapped for Duck Hunt.

The mostly unique fighters are Ness and Wario. Just as Ness does, Wario takes certain moves from Mario.

The semi-clone is Muddy Mole, having different special moves but taking most normals from Pikachu.

The full clone is Samus, of Fox.

The unlockable fighters are

  1. Samus - Clear Classic on Very Hard
  2. Ness - Clear Classic on any difficulty with every fighter
  3. Duck Hunt - Clear all starter Target Test levels
  4. Muddy - Clear Classic Mode once
Nice concept, but isn't Muddy too obscure to be added?
(I'm asking tho)
 

KneeOfJustice99

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
925
Location
The Velvet Room
Well, here's my thinking.

:ultbowser::ultmario::ultdk::ultlink::ultsamus::ultfalcon:
:ultness::ultyoshi::ultkirby::ultfox::ultpikachu::ultmewtwo:

I've got a couple of changes, but let me explain in detail.

Mario
The thing is, Mario has to remain. He's not only an icon of Nintendo, but of gaming as a whole! However, I'm going to suggest that in this game, his moveset is based on a fusion of Super Mario 64 with elements of Super Mario World. SM64 was a landmark title, and as with how Link is seen (which I'll get into soon!), this is a logical way to handle Mario.

Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong is a heavy-hitter, but I think it would be a good idea in this case to base his appearance from the Donkey Kong Country titles as opposed to DK64. The main reason is simple - DK64 was released pretty close to Smash, and with hindsight goggles, it... wasn't very well recieved. Even so, having him as a heavyweight grappler balances out the roster archetypes a little.

Link
Link, of course, is based on his Ocarina of Time appearance. With OoT being as popular and important as it was, even at the time, it makes sense to use that as the basis for what Link, well, is. Even so, I'd like to point out that his Boomerang is replaced with the Bow, which better reflects his appearance in the game in question (Adult Link is unable to use the Boomerang.) It would work well as a Side-B to be introduced in Melee, though!

Samus
This is a good example of a time where we can really stretch our creative muscles. Famously, Samus's playstyle is seen by many to be a poor representation of her appearance in the Metroid series, which I agree with. As such, however, I think it would be a good idea to have a few changes. First up, her down special would allow her to enter Morph Ball mode, which allows her to plant multiple bombs and roll around and the like. Also, Charge Shot is replaced with Ice Beam. Lastly, she's actually a bit faster, but not too much, as well as being a little floatier.

Yoshi
Yoshi is actually pretty good here. As seen originally, his style is based on a fusion of Yoshi's Island as well as Yoshi's Story. It works well, and Yoshi being a light character with a couple of ranged attacks with Egg Throw and his grab, works well.

Kirby
Perhaps a weird choice, but Sakurai bias. Not only this - but Kirby is actually still somewhat of a Nintendo icon in this period of time. However, it's not going to be possible to take inspiration from Kirby 64, not only because of it's release date being after Smash 64, but also because Sakurai only provided voice acting, meaning that he would be unable to provide inside information. However, I'll suggest that Kirby is mostly based on Kirby Super Star.

Fox
Again, a logical pick here. StarFox 64 was well-recieved, as was StarFox on the SNES, so it makes sense to have him here for the time. His fast, aggressive playstyle works well, and I quite like his overall design and the like, so it can stay.

Pikachu
Poke-Fever. Need I say more. That aside, Pikachu is a good choice as a rapid rushdown character works well, and Pokemon being as popular as it was at the time makes it absolutely essential that Pikachu makes it in.

Ness
Ness is seen by many as a weird pick. After all, EarthBound wasn't popular in the West... but you have to remember, Mother was still a popular series, and Mother 3 for the N64 was in development... with Iwata at the helm. Iwata may have requested Ness's inclusion, and Ness being so unique as a character makes him a logical choice.

Captain Falcon
With Falcon's model being taken from early development, this makes sense. It's also key to note that F-Zero was a very popular launch title for SNES, and F-Zero X was still doing pretty well overall - and for this reason, it makes sense to see him here. I also love that his moveset is so risk-reward.

Bowser
A very important addition, that is, a villain. I think Bowser would work well to replace the heavy archetypes seen in DK and, to an extent, Samus, which balances archetypes. Not only this, but Bowser is a Mario villain, meaning that he's essentially a shoe-in. Whilst Luigi makes a lot of sense to include, I think it would be interesting to see him in Melee simply because of the existance of Luigi's Mansion - and Bowser... has a more unique archetype. In terms of his creation, however, he actually shares a surprising amount of normal moves with DK, with only certain ones being unique for his body type.

Mewtwo
I felt a second Pokemon rep was essential. However, Jigglypuff - whilst popular - couldn't hold a candle to Mewtwo. Being the main villain of the first movie released in 1997, as well as a legendary seen in Gen I, Mewtwo is a bizarre, but unique, addition due to its lightweight but large nature. Notably, I think it could get away with reusing certain moves - for instance, Ness's down special, but reflecting as opposed to absorbing.
 

Butters Stotch

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 17, 2021
Messages
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Location
South Park, Colorado
Bowser
A very important addition, that is, a villain. I think Bowser would work well to replace the heavy archetypes seen in DK and, to an extent, Samus, which balances archetypes. Not only this, but Bowser is a Mario villain, meaning that he's essentially a shoe-in. Whilst Luigi makes a lot of sense to include, I think it would be interesting to see him in Melee simply because of the existance of Luigi's Mansion - and Bowser... has a more unique archetype. In terms of his creation, however, he actually shares a surprising amount of normal moves with DK, with only certain ones being unique for his body type.
I heard that Sakurai wasn't aware of Luigi's Mansion until later into development, so in an alternate reality, he may've gotten a Poltergust attack in Melee. I wonder what his Final Smash would be in this scenario; the return of the Negative Zone or, dare I say, Mr. L?
 
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KneeOfJustice99

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
925
Location
The Velvet Room
I heard that Sakurai wasn't aware of Luigi's Mansion until later into development, so in an alternate reality, he may've gotten a Poltergust attack in Melee. I wonder what his Final Smash would be in this scenario; the return of the Negative Zone or, dare I say, Mr. L?
Personally, I like to imagine that Luigi's grab could well have been the Poltergust. (and maybe they'd fix his dash attack given he's a new character in this "timeline"?) Even so, the fact that Final Smashes came about in Brawl would probably mean that the Poltergust came about as opposed to the Negative Zone. (To be honest... I still don't know where the Negative Zone came from - but I'm willing to be educated! :D)
 

KneeOfJustice99

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
925
Location
The Velvet Room
I don't know either. I don't recall seeing it outside of Brawl, so it may've been made up by Sakurai. I think it's a nice metaphor for how Luigi is always in Mario's shadow.
I think it's quite cool too! To be honest, I think that a lot of Smash-original content gets a bad rep. In a lot of circumstances, I get that it would be better to actually represent something from a character's history, but I also think that Smash-original additions are cool too. After all, we wouldn't have had Dark Pit in Kid Icarus Uprising if not for an alt in Brawl! :D
 
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