Redesigning/Rebalancing Little Mac

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Aug 9, 2015
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Mini-Redesign/Rebalance Threads

:ultmario: Mario

:ultdk: Donkey Kong

:ultkirby: Kirby

:ultbrawler: Mii Brawler
So this may be my last redesign thread for quite a while, so I decided to go for a technically simple character that has quite a bit of depth to him should you look for it. Let's talk about fixing up Little Mac.

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Like with all of my "rebalancing" exercises, I will showcase what I believe the character's purposes should be overall, as well as the strengths and weaknesses they should have.

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:ultlittlemac: Little Mac

Purpose: Hit and run/Ground combat/Snowball effect/Horrible aerial combat

Strengths should be:

Quick ground movement
Fast pokes
Heavy damage and armor
High priority
Immense kill power

Weaknesses should be:

Abysmal recovery
Low combo ability
Poor landing
Horrible aerial moveset
Easy to punish

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Let's go through some general stuff, like always

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:ultlittlemac: General Stats:

  • Featherweight
    • (Note weight would be generally compacted between heaviest and lightest characters, meaning Mac will get a weight buff)
  • Extremely high walk speed
  • Extremely high run speed
  • Average horizontal air speed
  • Below average fall speed
  • Extremely high fast fall speed
  • Low directional airdodge distance
  • Standardized first jump
    • (All first jumps for all characters will be the same height: around 80% the height of the top platform in Battlefield)
  • Very low double jump height
    • (Baseline for double jump will be lower than it is now, but varied between characters: Mac's new jump height would be about 65% his current double jump height in Smash Ultimate)
  • Wall Jump (All characters will be able to wall jump, but not all can wall cling)
  • Extremely high roll distance
    • (All characters will have the same frame data on rolls, with the only real variance between them being distance)
  • Very high shield health
    • (Shield health would now differ between characters, with the baseline being 100 shield health. Little Mac's would have 150)
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Not much changes here in terms of ground movement other than him definitely having the highest walk speed unlike Marth/Lucina. He would also have 50% extra shield health to work with and still keep his high roll distance. However, the biggest change is that he would have one of the fastest falls in the entire game, meaning his aerials can be used to quickly poke platform campers much safer (especially when taking into account lower landing lag).

Now you might say why he would need that. Well it also makes his landing a bit better and is compensated by his much lower natural fall speed. This means he can be killed easier from the ceiling, but doing true combos on him is much harder. This means he essentially cannot be comboed for very long and you must then read the Little Mac's immense fast fall to juggle him. This will hopefully make Mac a bit less hopeless above stage and cause Little's Mac's opponent to have to slow themselves down to fight him, which only helps Mac's hit and run playstyle. In addition, the lower fall speed boosts his recovery marginally too. Plus, I will actually make his aerials useful for something. Not damage or killing mind you, but... something. You'll see.

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:ultlittlemac::GCLT: Special trait: Star Meter

  • New trait: Whenever Little Mac damages an opponent with one of his moves either while they are in hitstun or hit an opponent during their attacks, he will gain one star. Can gain a maximum of three stars. When the Star Meter has at least one star in it, Mac can use the special technique button to cancel any attack into a Star punch uppercut immediately that will cause the enemy to be slowed down while in hitstun and airborne for a little while while also dealing damage. The more stars are exhausted, the longer the hitstun and higher the damage. One star will be lost every time Little Mac is put into hitstun
    • When activated, time will freeze while move is in startup for about 0.4 seconds
      • Can choose starting point of the Star Punch during this time freeze, with up to eight different directions
    • When the Star Punch ends, Little Mac will be airborne
    • Using a Star Punch after an aerial attack will give Little Mac back his double jump
      • If on the ground, Little Mac will retain his first jump
    • Hitstun lasts 1.0 second with one star, 1.5 with two, and 2 with three
      • Cannot use Star Punch during this time
  • Above average startup
  • High endlag
  • Extremely high DI deviation
  • Very low priority
  • Average shield damage
  • Very unsafe on shield
  • Knockback is upwards at 90 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • One star: 12.5%
    • Two stars: 25.0%
    • Three stars: 50.0%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • One star: 180%
    • Two stars: 165%
    • Three stars: 145%
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So this is a second resource meter that Little Mac can base his playstyle around. Unlike the KO Meter, this isn't about killing, but about damage, and the way to get it is much more difficult, but much more rewarding.

I mentioned in the weaknesses that Mac will have low combo potential, and this is true. Like in Punch Out, you gain only a few shots on the enemy before they can get back to the neutral. However, with this system, it is what shots you take that count and where, similar to actual boxing. Firstly, getting a true combo with Mac will net you a star for each hit. This will exclusively be on his throws into aerials, which makes his aerials more useful already. Another usefulness of the aerials comes from the result of the Star Punch. Mac will be sent airborne, and depending on if it was in the air or one the ground, he will retain his jump or restore it, making the followups from the long hitstun most likely aerial moves. And something else to note is that since they are in hitstun during the time slowdown, each attack Mac lands will give a star, allowing him to effectively build star punches off of star punches. This gives his aerials some use since they are fast and can reach the hitstunned opponent better than his ground attacks.

But that's not the only reason why you'd want to use your aerials here, because since you can't star punch during the long hitstun, you'd ideally want to either leave them alone during the hitstun since this can kill, or end it with a small hit to potentially trap them in a 50/50 for another newly retrieved Star Punch. Which your aerials provide due to their abysmal knockback growth. So you can hit the enemy with a weak aerial and maybe get another Star Punch going, or let them go into the blast zone, most likely without dying due to the high DI deviation. I told you Mac's aerials would actually be useful for something.

But the greatest thing this system does is psychological. Since you're almost guaranteed a star as Mac should you grab the opponent, your enemy will want to attack a lot to prevent a successful grab. However, as Mac, you have the means to punish very punishable attacks and get a star, so what the enemy will end up doing is using only their weakest, but fastest moves. Well as Mac, you beat them on the ground with your weakest, fastest moves and shorthop aerials won't help much because successful anti-airs on Mac's part will grant him a star due to higher priority. With this system, to beat Mac, you must play his hit and run, bait and punish game against him, most likely on the ground. You can also be in the air, but remember that with this system, there is now good incentive for Mac to bop you out of the air due to him netting a star should you attack poorly.

The main weakness of this is the fact that you can take away stars by hitting Little Mac and sending him into hitstun, making zoners a problem. But he has a high shield health for a reason. ;)

One thing to note here is that unlike Ryu and Ken, Little Mac can cancel these even if he doesn't hit anything or hits shield, meaning good spotdodges and sudden shields from hitstun can mess up a Star Punch, which is very punishable. It also has no armor whatsoever, so doing it to tank something OOS is a bad idea. Lastly, the eight directions during startup are to predict where the opponent is during the time freeze; since Little Mac's DI deviation on most of his moves is pretty high, it can potentially cause him to misplace the star punch should they use their DI correctly. While this can help fake out opponents by whiffing on purpose and cancelling into a disjointed Star Punch, remember the lack of armor and low priority not guaranteeing a trade in Mac's favor.

Overall, this added trait should make Little Mac far more feared, and make his gameplan far more interesting while playing him, since you now have aerials that do things. But overall, this basically makes the opponent play by Mac's rules in a sense, which can potentially let him shine far more often.

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:GCRT::GCB: Shield-B:

  • Remapped move: KO Uppercut: When Little Mac deals or receives damage, his KO meter will fill up. Once the meter is full, this move can be used, causing Little Mac to blast forward with a huge uppercut that has super armor throughout. Deals far less damage and knockback when used in the air. If Little Mac takes too much damage while the KO Meter is full, it will reset
    • When grounded, will ignore shields and counters
    • Buffer between KO meter being filled and when it can be reset is 3 seconds
    • Little Mac needs to take 85% damage before it fills up to max
    • Little Mac needs to deal 170% damage before it fills up to max
    • When used in the air, will restore Little Mac's double jump
  • Very low startup
  • High endlag
  • Transcendent priority
  • Extremely low DI deviation
  • Extremely high shield damage
  • Unsafe on shield
  • Strongly pushes back shielded opponents
  • Knockback is upwards at 85 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Grounded: 26.0%
    • Aerial: 15.0%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Grounded: 65%
    • Aerial: 130%

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So with the addition of Star Punches, KO Uppercut is far less relied upon once again. However, I would buff it so it is a bit weaker, but more commonly gotten, but also easier to take away from Mac. And in conjunction with Star Punches, it puts enemies in a catch 22, since Mac needs to be hit to have the stars taken away, but hitting Mac will charge the KO Uppercut far faster than if he hits you.

As an added bonus to Mac's recovery, if only rarely, he will gain his double jump back similar to the Star Punch if using KO Uppercut in the air, making it a legit recovery option, albeit counterable in the air obviously. However, if he hits a shield while in the air, it will deal a lot of shield damage and push the enemy back, giving Mac some safety. And going back to Star Punches, he can cancel this move into a Star Punch, giving him not only a lot of verticality, but his double jump and the ability to use Rising Uppercut. This makes Mac's abysmal recovery manageable if he was doing well on the ground beforehand. Again, snowballing out of control since he can get to the ground again much better when the enemy desperately needed him to not be there. ;)

The intended weaknesses of being very open when on the ground is still there, and again, it can be taken away even easier. Still, this is something to fear as usual, just not as often as the new Star Punches.

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:GCA::GCA::GCA: Jab:

  • A jab, then hook, then uppercut. If held, will transition from the hook to rapid punches before an uppercut finisher. Can hold down the button to repeatedly do first jab if not hitting anything
    • First jab has higher priority vs projectiles
    • Only finishers can cancel into Star Punch
  • Extremely low startup
  • Average endlag for both versions
  • Above average priority
  • Low shield damage
  • Barely unsafe on shield for both finishers
  • Knockback on finishers is upwards at 50 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Jab 1: 2.0%
    • Jab 2: 2.0%
    • Normal finisher: 8.0%
    • Rapid jab: 0.3% per 0.3 seconds
    • Rapid jab finisher: 3.0%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Normal finisher: 375%
    • Rapid jab finisher: 200%

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So with the first star punch cancellable normal attack, we have a caveat. Only the finishers can cancel into Star Punch for obvious reasons. If they weren't, it's to make it so you can't combo into Star Punch by jab cancelling, especially considering Mac's first jab is the fastest an attack can be in the game at frame 1.

An extra use is that the first jab can punch through most projectiles, giving Little Mac anti-zoning capability outside his dash attack and Jolt Haymaker, meaning only the strongest single projectiles or barrage can keep him out adequately. As for the two types of jabs, both hit at the same angle upwards, but the normal finisher, or "gentleman" has more damage with less knockback, making it the better finisher to star punch cancel into. Meanwhile, the rapid jab has more potential for damage as well as kill power, but is much worse at Star Punch cancels due to its higher base knockback.

The last thing to note is that with the frame 1 jab, this is an amazing OOS option to get free star punch stars.

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:GCR::GCA: FTilt:

  • A one-two combo. Causes Little Mac's standing position to move forward a bit after the move
    • First hit will combo into second regardless of enemy position
  • Very low startup
  • Average endlag
  • Low priority
  • Average shield damage
  • Safe on shield
  • Pushes back shielded enemies slightly
  • Knockback on second hit is sideways at 30 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • First hit: 4.5%
    • Second hit: 8.5%
    • Total: 13.0%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Second hit: 155%

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So not many changes to this particular move honestly. The few that are there are pretty good. Firstly, this has low priority, so trying to challenge approaches with this is unadvised. It also works into Little Mac's playstyle of hit and run, finding openings and getting stars. The good news is that this is not only safe on shield, but pushes both Mac and the enemy forward a bit. This can give him slight amounts of stage control should the enemy get defensive, considering you could potentially do this twice on their shield or something else with a bit more range to harass their shield. Or of course, grab, which is actually a threat considering Mac's grabs can combo into aerials for free stars.

Also, due to Star Punch cancels, the low priority on this move can actually work in your favor, since repeated use will give out a hitbox people will be all too happy to challenge. Meanwhile, you can cancel into a Star Punch if you feel they will simply jump over you. As for shields, people will want to leave the second FTilt to their shield naturally, which you can catch with a Star Punch cancel.

Last change is less kill power for a more horizontal angle. Now this can cause tech chases at much earlier percents, and since Mac actually has edgeguarding capability with his aerials and very situational vertical recovery, has niche use as an edgeguard starter.

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:GCU::GCA: UTilt:

  • An overhead arcing backfist
  • Low hitstun
  • Very low startup
  • Low endlag
  • Above average priority
  • Very high DI deviation
  • Low shield damage
  • Barely safe on shield
  • Knockback is upwards at 90 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers: 10.5%
  • Approximate kill time: 200%

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Not much changed about this move. Its priority is a bit higher to make it far better as an anti-air though. And since it is very fast and can be cancelled into Star Punch, its DI deviation is far higher to make it difficult to follow the opponent's movement. As I said before, Mac will have no true combos other than throws to aerials, so the hitstun is low enough that repeatedly hitting the opponent will not grant Mac a star. This also makes it so they have to jump or air dodge to escape UTilt spam, giving Mac some ability to "tech chase". A small damage buff is granted to again compensate for lack of true combos.

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:GCD::GCA: DTilt:

  • A crouching arcing straight punch
  • Low hitstun
  • Extremely low startup
  • Very low endlag
  • Very low priority
  • Very low shield damage
  • Unsafe on shield
  • Knockback is sideways at 0 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers: 8.0%
  • Approximate kill time: 330%

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Contrast this with UTilt's weird aerial tech chase, DTilt changes from a combo starter to a very quick poke and more traditional tech chasing tool, considering it semi spikes at even the lowest of percents. This means pretty much any sub 150% hit with this will initiate a tech chase for Mac to take advantage of. As a consequence, it is unsafe on shield, and should only be used to nab stars via pokes against certain moves and to again, initiate tech chases. It also has low priority. However, because of Star Punch cancels, it being unsafe on shield and low priority could potentially mean jack, since you could punish an enemy for retaliating against your hit with a nice Star Punch.

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:GCR::GCR::GCA: Dash Attack:

  • A slide with an overhand. Destroys projectiles throughout the move
  • Average startup
  • Above average endlag
  • Average priority
  • Low hitstun
  • High DI deviation
  • Low shield damage
  • Unsafe on shield
  • Knockback is upwards at 60 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers: 12.0%
  • Approximate kill time: 160%

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So we have the mandatory projectile destruction. This is great for Little Mac specifically, since he can use either this or Jolt Haymaker to catch zoners right next to him trying to wall him out. In addition, sending his opponent into the air gives him ample angles to unleash a Star Punch or even chase with an aerial should he try to expect a quick retaliation due to the low hitstun of the move.

The biggest weakness of this move is lack of safety on shield, meaning this is a read based move more than anything.

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:GCCR: FSmash:

  • A different punch depending on angle on startup. Upwards gives a strong uppercut, forward gives a cross, and downward gives a body hook. All have different properties on hit. All also have super armor on startup. All have a sweetspot on the punch and sourspot on the arm
  • Above average startup
  • Above average endlag
  • Transcendent priority
  • Shield damage:
    • Upward: Very low
    • Forward: Average
    • Downward: Very high
  • Barely safe on shield for all three angles
  • Knockback:
    • Upward: 85 degrees
    • Forward: 45 degrees
    • Downward: Sakurai angle
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Upward:
      • Sweetspot: 23.0%-32.2%
      • Sourspot: 18.0%-25.2%
    • Forward:
      • Sweetspot: 24.0%-33.6%
      • Sourspot: 18.5%-25.9%
    • Downward:
      • Sweetspot: 29.0%-40.6%
      • Sourspot: 21.8%-30.5%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Upward:
      • Sweetspot: 130%-105%
      • Sourspot: 145%-120%
    • Forward:
      • Sweetspot: 110%-85%
      • Sourspot: 120%-95%
    • Downward:
      • Sweetspot: 160%-135%
      • Sourspot: 170%-145%

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So in terms of the move's general properties, not much has changed. Note that due to how Star Punches work, if you armor through an opponent's move, you are guaranteed a star just out of consequence.

As for the three variations of the moves, the upward one has less shield damage and knockback for the price of being in a favorable angle than forward smash. The forward one has no Sakurai angle, making it good at keeping the opponent at bay even at early percents. It also has more shield damage and the most kill power, making it the go to killer of the three. Downward is the same old same old of great shield breaker move with high damage but lowest kill power and an unfavorable Sakurai angle. It also has a sourspot added. Other than those little things, not much changes. Each are used about the same as they always are.

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:GCCU: USmash:

  • A strong circling uppercut. Has an early and late hitbox. Has super armor on startup and throughout the hitbox of the move
  • Average startup
  • Above average endlag
  • Transcendent priority
  • Low shield damage
  • Safe on shield
  • Pushes back shielded opponents
  • Knockback is upwards behind Little Mac at 100 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Early: 21.0%-29.4%
    • Late: 16.0%-22.4%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Early: 110%-85%
    • Late: 135%-110%

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So this move pretty much gets no changes other than one technically minor one that majorly affects it, and that's armor throughout the hitbox of the move, meaning it not only stuffs out people in front of Mac, but above him too, making him great at anti-air combat. And again, because of how Star Punches work, if he armors through the opponent's moves, he will get a star pretty much just by consequence. This makes mindlessly spamming aerials against Mac far less viable, and as alluded to in the Star Punch section, causes you to play Little Mac's bait and punish game with him, of which he has the upper hand, else you will make things far worse for yourself.

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:GCCD: DSmash:

  • A quick downward angled hook in both directions. Has super armor on startup for both attacks
    • Can hit people off ledges
  • Average startup
  • Average endlag
  • Transcendent priority
  • Below average shield damage
  • Safe on shield
  • Pushes back shielded opponents
  • Knockback is sideways at 30 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Hit 1: 13.0%-18.2%
    • Hit 2: 15.0%-21.0%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Hit 1: 140%-115%
    • Hit 2: 130%-105%

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Like most of Little Mac's ground moves, not much changed here other than being explicitly faster than the other smashes in terms of endlag, as well as having a slight power boost for the hit behind Mac. It also can explicitly hit people off ledges. Other than that, not much change; still a very good roll catcher, and again, the armor gives star punch a much easier retrieval.

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:GCX::GCA: NAir:

  • A downward jab
  • Low hitstun
  • Extremely low startup
  • Low endlag
  • Extremely low landing lag
  • Extremely high DI deviation
  • Very low priority
  • No shield damage
  • Unsafe on shield
  • Knockback is at the Sakurai angle
  • Approximate damage numbers: 2.0%
  • Approximate kill time: 900%

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Something before we move on to Mac's aerials. I know they are supposed to be bad, but I still want to give them all a situational use in his toolkit beyond the aforementioned Star collection tools both before and after a Star Punch. Because of this, every aerial will be able to cancel into Star Punch. In addition, all moves are safe on hit, unlike how they are now. They will still be weak compared to other aerials, but not completely useless.

This is the move of extremes. It is terrible against shields and has very low priority, making it bad for approaches, but is the fastest aerial startup in the game and has very little lag all around, making it a good move to throw out if you are looking for an opening on a blind spot of a move to gain a Star. Unfortunately, it can't combo into anything on landing, despite being safe on hit, due to the immense DI deviation disallowing smooth combos. However, it is great for Star Punch Cancels due to the ability to change your position on startup to follow their DI.

An overall useful opening punisher and probably Mac's best Star Punch cancelling aerial.

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:GCX::GCR::GCA: FAir:

  • An aerial hook
  • Above average startup
  • High endlag
  • Low landing lag
  • High priority
  • Average shield damage
  • Barely unsafe on shield
  • Base knockback is above average for edgeguarding
  • Knockback is sideways at 0 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers: 8.3%
  • Approximate kill time: 600%

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Welcome to the only slow startup Little Mac aerial. It also has the highest damage, though that isn't saying much. Remember again that this slow aerial is safe on hit, so you aren't punished for doing the right thing and actually hitting the opponent. On shield is a different story; while it has a good shield damage for such a weak move overall, it is barely unsafe, so if Mac lands with this, the best he gets is neutral back. Not a bad trade in the long run, but it hampers this move's ability to harass platforms. It's knockback angle and high base knockback is also subpar for Star Punch Cancels.

The big changes to this move are the lack of sourspot and the high priority on the hook, being the highest priority of all Little Mac's aerials. This allows him to edgeguard with it more effectively from enemies wanting to recover high. It also can be used to stuff out edgeguards against Mac if timed well. This gives it a niche, if needed, use in Little Mac's toolkit.

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:GCX::GCL::GCA: BAir:

  • A backwards outstretched jab
  • Low startup
  • Very high endlag
  • Above average landing lag
  • Extremely high DI deviation
  • Very low priority
  • Average shield damage
  • Barely safe on shield
  • Pushes back shielded opponents slightly
  • Knockback is upwards at 15 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers: 5.7%
  • Approximate kill time: 900%

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Once again, safe on hit.

This move is repurposed from a slow move to a faster one and is good for Mac to harass shields more directly and give himself some much needed space, especially when landing with it. In all other ways besides startup, it is super slow, but can be used for something other than situational shield harassment and push back. Like NAir, it can Star Punch Cancel very well due to the quickness of its startup. It also covers its laggier whiff, making it a great whiff punish baiting tool should Mac feel cocky.

Besides that, due to its range compared to all his other aerials, it is very good at catching aerial assault openings and landing aerials very quickly and safely. Overall, think of this as a laggier, but more shield harassing and ranged NAir.

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:GCX::GCU::GCA: UAir:

  • An aerial upward arcing hook
  • Very low startup
  • High endlag
  • Low landing lag
  • High DI deviation
  • Low priority
  • Lingering hitbox
  • Low shield damage
  • Barely safe on shield
  • Knockback is upwards at 75 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers: 5.0%
  • Approximate kill time: 700%

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First thing to note is that like with all of Mac's aerials, it would be changed to be safe on hit, if only marginally. As for this one aerial, it is predictably used to harass enemies just outside of Mac's USmash range without the commitment of a Rising Uppercut. Since it actually has respectable shieldstun, it can be a passageway for Mac to double jump and reach the enemy's elevation to actually deal some hurt.

And like all of his aerials, it is very good at comboing off his throws' slightly high base knockback to get the Stars for Star punches. And let's not forget that Mac can cancel one of them from this move, giving him great threat for quick followup. Unfortunately, this move would have higher base knockback than something like FAir, making it dubious at best.

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:GCX::GCD::GCA: DAir:

  • A downward palm thrust
  • Lingering hitbox
  • Below average startup
  • Below average endlag
  • Very low landing lag
  • Low priority
  • Above average shield damage
  • Barely unsafe on shield
  • Knockback is downwards at 270 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers: 6.0%
  • Approximate kill time: 650%

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The last dubious move to Mac's exclusively aerial arsenal. Honestly, this move didn't change much. It is pretty good for the little it does, being sending enemies low. It is potentially good at allowing Mac to jump above someone's head as they retaliate and bop them on the noggin to get a Star after he whiffs a move, but the main change is the lack of sourspot, meaning it always meteor smashes weakly. Unlike all other aerials besides NAir, DAir can be spammed in midair quite easily, making it also good at continuously pushing someone downward. This can actually be a usable tactic due to the combination of KO Uppercut and Star Punches giving Mac situationally great vertical recovery. The last big deal is having a lot of shield damage. Though his ground moves do this well enough, it's barely unsafe nature allows Mac to potentially 50/50 an opponent with a lot of shield damage.

This is definitely the most situational of the aerials, despite the fact it is fast enough to combo off throws and get Stars and stuff, but it's meteor smash is definitely usable now in the rarest of circumstances, and has the most shield damage of all the aerials.

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:GCB: Neutral-B:

  • Straight Lunge: Mac will charge up his fist and let go with a powerful dash forward, dragging enemies with him until the end of the dash and giving them damage over time. Charging it more will make the dash cover more distance. Has super armor during the charge and throughout the dash, though attacks during this deal double damage to Little Mac. Can cancel with a quick dash forward or backward by pressing shield and a direction
    • Using this in the air will cut the dash distance by 60%
    • Can only use once before hitting the ground
    • Can reverse dash after charging
    • Uncharged dash goes about 3 Little Mac widths
    • Max dash goes about 80% the length of Final Destination
    • Cannot cross up shields
    • Charge to max takes about 2 seconds
    • Damage over time lasts from 2 seconds uncharged, to 8 seconds max charge
    • (Can cancel the lengthy max charge post-dash animation at any time)
  • High startup
  • Above average endlag
  • Transcendent priority
  • Average shield damage at all charge levels
    • Damage over time will harm shields
  • Barely unsafe on shield
  • Knockback of final hit is at the Sakurai angle
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Damage over time: 3.0% per 0.5 seconds
    • Uncharged total: 12.0%
    • Max charge total: 48.0%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Uncharged: 225%
    • Max charge: 75%

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This move hasn't changed much. As I've established, KO Uppercut has its own button combo, so this can be used at full KO meter. And while not too much has changed, it is much more useful for landing because instead of heavy armor which is percent based, it is super armor while charging, giving Little Mac on demand super armor for getting out of airborne combos, as well as stopping rushdown. A caveat to this is taking double damage, which in the long term is pretty bad when you consider they don't have to fully get you off screen to kill you and considering Mac's weight. On top of that, his shield cancel now does not roll, meaning he has no invincibility. It also can be used as a slight recovery in the air, though again, no invincibility. At the same time, the charge can bait a grab from the enemy should they think you will mess up the timing.

The other minor change is no crossing up shields, and the dash will drag enemies alongside Mac while inflicting damage over time instead. Unlike all other damage over time, this one would burn shields too, meaning enemies will want to not use shield for at least a little while. This, like Star Punches, will limit the enemies options causing them to play Mac's game, especially considering his great shield break ability and it can potentially lead them into a Straight Lunge cancel into Star Punch when you take into account the best answer to Star Punch is to shield. To top this off, the laggy max charge animation can finally be cancelled, thank the gods!

This is also Mac's only special move that isn't weaker in the air, but it does go far less distance.

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:GCL::GCB::GCR: Side-B:

  • Jolt Haymaker: Jumps forward and does an overhand Superman punch. Has intangibility on startup when used on the ground. Can press the button again before reaching the full distance of the jump to prematurely send out the punch
    • Has slightly less distance and damage when used in the air
  • Above average startup
  • Above average endlag
  • Above average shield damage
  • High DI deviation
  • Very high priority
  • Unsafe on shield
  • Knockback is at the Sakurai angle
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Grounded: 14.8%
    • Aerial: 7.4%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Grounded: 150%
    • Aerial: 200%

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Honestly, not much changed for this move. It is still very good at getting into zoners and even longer ranged disjoints. It also can combo well off the stage. I would definitely give it less endlag when falling so you can actually use Rising Uppercut a bit sooner, though with Star Punch cancels, this could be less of a problem.

Speaking of, this is the biggest change to the move. Considering its main goal is to catch mid range projectile and disjoint users, it most likely will hit them in the midst of their attack. If it does, you can easily let loose your newfound Star Punch afterwards. Just make sure you actually get it and hit them, since if you hit a shield, unless you have a Star Punch ready to fake them out, they can easily intercept you and punish accordingly. Other than that, it's pretty simplistic. Has less damage in the air too since I said all of Mac's aerial specials would deal less damage in the air.

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:GCU::GCB: Up-B:

  • Rising Uppercut: Does a corkscrew style uppercut upwards, knocking the enemy multiple times before a final hit. Has intangibility on startup. Causes Mac to be helpless afterwards. Has slightly less ascent and far less knockback and damage on the final hit if started in the air
    • Can be angled when used from the ground with a deviation of about 15 degrees in both directions
  • Very low startup
  • Transcendent priority
  • Extremely low landing lag
  • Low shield damage
  • Unsafe on shield
  • Knockback on final hit is upwards at 85 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • First hit: 2.0%
    • Multihit: 1.2% * 7
    • Final hit (grounded): 10.6%
    • Final hit (aerial): 3.6%
    • Total: 21.0% (ground) / 14.0% (aerial)
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Grounded: 150%
    • Aerial: 300%

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So this is not really changed much. It's still great as a OOS option, though with the Star Punch system, you could take your chances and stuff out an enemy attack with the startup invincibility, though there are better tools to do so obviously. The few buffs given for this move are to help Little Mac harass platforms far better by giving his landing after being helpless almost no lag whatsoever. Combine this with his much faster fast fall, and this gives a grounded Little Mac far more freedom to catch rolls above him on platforms. On top of that, the final hit does a huge brunt of damage, so catching the enemy at the start of the move can be bypassed for the reward of catching them during the ascent.

And as for combos, I would give the grounded version less directional control in order to not catch good DI by itself and again have Mac rely on his aerials after grabs. However, if they don't have the best DI, you could easily catch them and gain a star.

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:GCD::GCB: Down-B:

  • Slip Counter: Little Mac will do a lunging uppercut counter if hit during the countering frames. Will become completely invincible during counter frames and the counter attack itself. If it hits an enemy, will be guaranteed to give a star to the Star Meter. Cannot cancel into a Star Punch unless successfully countering. Does less damage if used in the air
  • Extremely low startup
  • High endlag if not countering
  • Average endlag if countering
  • High DI deviation
  • Knockback is upwards at 45 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers:
    • Grounded: 18.6%
    • Aerial: 9.3%
  • Approximate kill times:
    • Grounded: 180%
    • Aerial: 300%

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This is a counterattack that does not scale to the damage of the countered attack, but instead has its own damage value and kill time, makig it unique among counterattacks. The reasoning behind this is that I would increase the lunging during the counter a bit, both to increase its aerial recovery, as well as allow Mac to counterattack zoner's projectiles at mid range. In addition to that, because of Star Punch cancels, Mac doesn't actually need to hit said zoner for his counter to be a threat, but cancel after the lunge is finished, giving him a bit of extra distance, making this far better at mid range gap closing. Of course, you will need a star beforehand. If you hit the zoner, you will be golden, since this automatically gives a Star no matter what if it hits.

However, if you miss the counter, you cannot Star Punch cancel, for obvious reasons. It's also weaker in the air overall in terms of power. Other than that, not much changes. It's a counter on Mac, a character designed to punish mistakes horribly and be punished horribly by his own. Pretty good if I say so.

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:GCZ: Grab and Pummel:

  • Very low range melee grab
  • Slow standardized grab frame data
    • (There would be three standardized frame data "rankings" for melee grabs)
      • (Fast: 6 frame standing grab, 8 frame dash grab, 9 frame pivot grab)
      • (Average: 9 frame standing grab, 11 frame dash grab, 12 frame pivot grab)
      • (Slow: 12 frame standing grab, 14 frame dash grab, 15 frame pivot grab)
  • Approximate pummel damage: 4.3%
  • Approximate pummel interval: 0.35 seconds

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Like I said, Little Mac's true combos would only come from his throws. However, his pummel is buffed to be immensely strong at damage racking, dealing around 12% per second! This is what to use if your opponent's percent is too high to true combo for that star, since his slow grab means he wants to get all the reward off it whenever it happens.

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:GCZ::GCR: FThrow:

  • Rears back and does an overhead swing, knocking the opponent away
  • Average endlag
  • Low base knockback to allow for combos
  • Knockback is diagonally downwards at 345 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers: 7.2%
  • Approximate kill time: 400%

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This is Mac's most damaging throw, and is mostly used for tech chases by forcing the enemy into the ground to force a tech. However, if you throw them off the stage, you could get a Jolt Haymaker off the edge to combo or even a FAir, so this can still combo in some sense.

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:GCZ::GCL: BThrow:

  • Spins the enemy around to throw an uppercut behind them
  • Low endlag
  • Low base knockback to allow for combos
  • Knockback is upwards at 55 degrees
  • Approximate damage numbers: 6.0%
  • Approximate kill time: 300%

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This throw has less endlag and more upward knockback, again allowing for early combos. It is not a great edgeguarding throw unlike FThrow however and deals slightly less damage.

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:GCZ::GCU: UThrow:

  • A quick uppercut, knocking the enemy skyward
  • Low endlag
  • Low base knockback to allow for combos
  • Knockback is upwards at 90 degrees
  • Approximate damage: 4.2%
  • Approximate kill time: 155%

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This is Mac's only kill throw, and it kills in his least optimal direction. This is more of a bonus if you happen to grab someone on some platforms, giving Mac some form of threat on platformed stages, since it usually won't kill before anything else and since it has the highest knockback growth of all the throws, it will stop comboing very quickly. So, early combo starter, late percent killer on platforms. To compensate for this versatility, it has very low damage, even lower than a single pummel.

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:GCZ::GCD: DThrow:

  • Does a double axe handle on the opponent
  • Average endlag
  • Low base knockback to allow for combos
  • Knockback is upwards at 75 degrees
  • Approximate damage:
    • Hit 1: 3.0%
    • Hit 2: 3.0%
    • Total: 6.0%
  • Approximate kill time: 500%

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This is very similar to BThrow, but can't really be used to edgeguard much at all. It also has slightly more endlag, making BThrow the better combo throw. This however can put people right in the way of some 50/50's at later percents sorta like FThrow's tech chases, making it a very versatile throw overall.

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Finally done. Been back in school finally, and had to spread this one out despite having a good concept in my head for a while.
 
Last edited:

Luigifan18

Smash Master
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Messages
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#3
In your section on the Star Punch, you forgot to say anything about Little Mac losing stars when hit, put into hitstun, or however you mean for it to work in the move attributes — if not for your detailed move descriptions, I wouldn’t even know that hitting Little Mac is supposed to take his stars away.
 

SecretAsianMan

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Messages
77
#4
Like in Punch Out, you gain only a few shots on the enemy before they can get back to the neutral. However, with this system, it is what shots you take that count and where, similar to actual boxing.
This rework looks cool and is very detailed and all, but (at least in the origional) like a good third of the fights had infinite combos out of a single counter, and the other fights have 5~8 punch loops from a single doge. Even Tyson has a repeatable 3-punch pattern for punishing one of his hooks and blinks.
 
Joined
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Messages
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#5
In your section on the Star Punch, you forgot to say anything about Little Mac losing stars when hit, put into hitstun, or however you mean for it to work in the move attributes — if not for your detailed move descriptions, I wouldn’t even know that hitting Little Mac is supposed to take his stars away.
I believe this is where it is:

New trait: Whenever Little Mac damages an opponent with one of his moves either while they are in hitstun or hit an opponent during their attacks, he will gain one star. Can gain a maximum of three stars. When the Star Meter has at least one star in it, Mac can use the special technique button to cancel any attack into a Star punch uppercut immediately that will cause the enemy to be slowed down while in hitstun and airborne for a little while while also dealing damage. The more stars are exhausted, the longer the hitstun and higher the damage. One star will be lost every time Little Mac is put into hitstun
I don't blame you for missing it though lol
 

Luigifan18

Smash Master
Premium
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
3,127
Switch FC
SW-5577-0969-0868
#6
This rework looks cool and is very detailed and all, but (at least in the origional) like a good third of the fights had infinite combos out of a single counter, and the other fights have 5~8 punch loops from a single doge. Even Tyson has a repeatable 3-punch pattern for punishing one of his hooks and blinks.
Are those really combos? They sound more like blatant AI exploitation than truly stuffing out or denying defensive reactions. Also, I'm pretty sure that a combo is a consecutive string of attacks with minimal pauses in between; the combo is over once the fight resets to the neutral state.
 
Last edited:

SecretAsianMan

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Messages
77
#7
You are stuffing out any moves by repeatedly punching them. Also saying that a combo is over whe not players are back in neutral means that smash is a never ending combo
 
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