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Recovery Tier List

mood4food77

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 6, 2005
Messages
5,970
same thing as what B-Will started, except now it's under my control, same rules apply, and now this time, it's updated to my likings


God Tier:
--1. Jigglypuff

Top Tier
--2. Mewtwo
--3. Samus

Upper Tier
--4. Peach
--5. Pichu
--6. Pikachu

High Tier
--7. Ganondorf
--8. Ice Climbers
--9. Mr. Game & Watch
--10. Link

Middle Tier
--11. Young Link
--12. Fox
--13. Kirby
--14. Ness
--15. Zelda

Low Tier
--16. Donkey Kong
--17. Yoshi
--18. Bowser
--19. Sheik
--20. Marth
--21. Luigi

Bottom Tier
--22. Captain Falcon
--23. Mario
--24. Falco
--25. Doctor Mario
--26. Roy

 

blaargh198

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
184
Location
Pirate Ship
Pretty much what i expected to see, though I was a bit surprised that Yoshi went down 6 places.
Anyways, mood4food, good to see you took up the tier list job when B-will said he wasn't going to keep doing it.

EDIT: First post!
EDIT2: my bad, mood4food.:ohwell:
 

mood4food77

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 6, 2005
Messages
5,970
yoshi's recovery is overrated, basically, if he's hit out of his jump, he's screwed, which puts all of ganon's and roy's (see, he's good at something) air moves on that list, along with the shines, multi-hitting aerials, falco's blaster, sheik's needles, and meteors (that send down), and once he's hit, he's not coming back


ness can gaurd an edgegaurded, also he can take revenge before he dies, i did this on my friend's mewtwo, he meteor'd me when i was at like 160%, i cancelled it before i died, then i hit him out of his second jump and he died right after (then he quit saying that i didn't hit him even though he was flying around with sparks, he also didn't htink i could cancel mewtwo's dair)

g&w has amazing recovery, it wasn't that low

and please when you refer to me, say it mood4food, cause that's what it is
 

Marth/Falco Pro

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
1,211
Location
Anaheim, SoCal
personally, I think yoshi's jump is bittersweet, it's horrible because like you said, "If he's out of his 2nd jump, he's screwed" and it's pretty cool because he can't be hit out of his 2nd jump that easily. I use him as a secondary and many Foxes fail to shinespike me so that's a nice bonus :p
 

Samochan

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Messages
3,450
Location
I'm in your house, dsmashing your tv
If you go by the definition that when yoshi has no second jump and dies, that goes to half of the cast as well. Especially mewtwo, who's up B is not long enough to cut it when hit off screen. >_> With some decent DI, yoshi will nullify some egdeguarding totally with his plain 2nd jump (for example, peach's). Since it goes so high, he can either come from below and aerial dodge the possible edgeguarder, or come from so high the opponent has no way to intercept him. His DJC also allows interesting options to block the edgeguarder with his own attacks. His down B can be a deadly sweetspotting weapon as well. So I really don't think yoshi should be that low, at least not below bowser and DK, whose recoveries can be a lot more easily intercepted, edgeguarded and they don't get cc effect on their second jump which goes through many edgeguards. Plus he also gains a lot more vertical distance than those two, which should also matter on his tier placement. Also to note, the stuff mentioned that can kill his second jump will also kill everyone else's jump and up B too, so they are in no better position than yoshi is, so to limit those to as yoshi-killing moves only is not really fair for the dinosaur. :/
 

mood4food77

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 6, 2005
Messages
5,970
it is much harder to edgegaurd a bowser and a dk than a yoshi, and they also have a shot at coming back when being edgegaurded, yoshi doesn't, mewtwo has at least an up b, and also he goes higher when you use an air move, which most of his have decent priority

most of those are airmoves and can be jumped again and used again and still make it back to the stage no problem
 

MaskedMarth

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
555
Location
Chicago area
It is good for a character to have a long recovery, but not for the obvious reason. Sans edge-guarder, the difference between Jigglypuff's near-infinite recovery and Fox's pretty long recovery is slight. You'll recover from most spots of the stage just fine, with either character. But add the edge-guarder, and we see that Jigglypuff overreaches the stage by so much that she can throw a veritable Wall of Pain off-stage without jeopardizing her recovery. Fox, of course, cannot do the same.

And we see at the same time that a long recovery only really helps if it rids you of the edge-guarder. This is especially the case with vertical recoveries. Falco has an above average vertical recovery, mostly due to his gigantic second jump. Still, there's no doubt that his recovery is among the worst in the game. There's only one ledge, so it doesn't matter if you can go over the ledge by a lot or a little - the enemy will still hit you (unless you have great horizontal recovery as well as vertical, in which case you're playing Jigglypuff and normal edge-guarding rules don't apply anyways).
 

mood4food77

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 6, 2005
Messages
5,970
thank you, even though it wasn't very hard, i'm even tempted to move falcon above mario since falcon can recover from most edgegaurds better than mario can
 

ChozenOne

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
2,592
Location
Cheerleading Practice
I think Kirby's too high. He falls quite fast (for a gosh darn ballon) and his UpB is mad easy to edgeguard. If you get knocked away @ a downward angle there's nothing he can do.
 

chronofreak

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
124
Location
Orlando, FL
Looks like I'm going to continue preaching Mr. Game & Watch's excellent recovery on this thread, although I am glad that he has moved some.

1. Incredible DI
2. Travels a huge vertical distance with up+B
3. Quick up+B
4. Up+B has good priority, attack frames last long
5. Up+B hugs slanting walls (Final Destination)
6. Large teleport-to-ledge range

To put it all into perspective: When GaW is level with or higher than the playing field in FD, he can recover from the edge of the screen without jumps.
 

mood4food77

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 6, 2005
Messages
5,970
i think he has much better recovery too, and kirby's is crap, but do remember, kirby's fair does help him recover (for whatever reason, it does), but it's still crap

he's a floaty character, just gets to his top speed very fast
 

Bullfrog

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
264
Location
Newark, CA
Most of those things you said Yoshi can be hit out of only applies when Yoshi's at a high percent. Meteors do cancel it earlier than other attacks. I know Roy's aerial's can't break Yoshi's midjump, one of my crew members mains Roy. Only Falco's shine can stop Yoshi's midjump. Blasters don't. Multi-hitting aerials cant, either. Yeah, Ganon's stronger than most characters, but it'll still take him a while to knock Yoshi out of his midjump. Only his dair will start early.

And you have to admit, only SPECIFIC attacks from SPECIFIC characters will stop Yoshi. Not EVERYONE can do it.
 

kidprecision

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
161
This list sucks.
G&W should be higher.
Mario's recovery is great.
Bowser and DK should be higher.
Yoshi lower.
Luigi should higher as well.
 

Tsukuyomi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Messages
279
Eh??? I thought Roy would have a good recovery than most characters... DED can still be used for Roy and his Blazer has 2 different ranges depending on how you tilt analog stick... Hold UP and Blazer will go upwards but not far or tilt the analog stick left or right to make Blazer go far but not high...
 

B-Will

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
1,807
Location
Palo Alto, California
heh even though you changed the list quite a bit, I agree with most of it just because they were debatable in the first place.

There are a couple of changes I didn't like but one in particular I hated: you placing yoshi so low on the list.

I've played two good yoshis before, one being gabe an incredible yoshi, and the guy doesn't die. I find it rare to kill yoshis below 100%. His double jump is rediculous and they always have the air dodge for a last resort. I don't care if he doesn't have an up b recovery, he doesn't need one IMO. A good yoshi with good mindgames will find his way back to the stage without being gayed off.
 

Tiamat

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
384
Why is Ganon so high? Does he have some special technique for getting back to the field?
 

virtualgamecafe

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
423
Location
earth
he can tripple jump...when u do that u can use down+b then jump again and ge is strong (but slow cant jump bad defence he needs to be middle or low tear
 

Rockin

Juggies <3
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Messages
3,547
Location
Bronx, New York
The list looks nice, but I'm just curious though. How come Peach isn't top tier? She almost owns the air with her float ability, combos and such. Plus she could edge hog good.

Not that I'm complaining. I'm glad she's in upper tier (which is the same place as the official tier XD), but again, I'm just curious.
 

highandmightyjoe

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Messages
822
Location
Alexandria, VA
Peach is where she is because of bad vertical recovery, and being fairly predictable.

I have to say, even though he's my main I still don't think Ganon should be that high. He can only recover effectively if knocked up/away. His recovery moves a great horizontal distance at the cost of height. So if he gets knocked very far down he can't do anything, and if he is knocked horizontally without much height then his downB can hurt more than help. Also if he is facing the wrong direction when knocked off stage his downB will take him farther away(that killed me once, so embarassing). Its still good, but I don't think its as good as you say.
 

cradmazy_SKAG

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
543
Location
Howell NJ (central)
links recovery is amazing.. take into account bombjumping which you CAN be proficient at. because i am. his options off the cliff are ridiculous, if used correctly he can almost not be edgeguarded. only samus, young link, and he can actually air-dodge and still recover. the hookshot which vertically is second to G&W, luigi, and samus, as long as there is a wall which most stages there is.. and his horizontal recovery second to peach and samus. his UP B used correctly can suck people into it and can get around even marths D-tilt or the IC's downsmash. he should be top tier. period.
 

Earthbound360

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 3, 2006
Messages
5,725
Location
Bowie, MD
NNID
Mikman360
Bottom

Average midair jump
No vertical height in squall hammer
easy to be hit out of
Okay distance horizontally
Only one method of recovery
 

mood4food77

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 6, 2005
Messages
5,970
yea, i hate yoshi, probably put him too low, and why is it such a pain in the *** to change this

ganon up so high, he doesn't die, only moves that send him downward and spikes are a true way to make sure he's dead, but he'll keep coming back, he survives about as long as samus does, hits at 120% practically mean nothing, he'll come back
 

Echoist

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 1, 2005
Messages
173
Location
Sweden
I think Luigi should be higher. A misfire can send you back to the stage even if you're far away. If you're at the bottom of a stage you can make it back with the cyclone recovery, second jump, and the UpB.
 

mood4food77

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 6, 2005
Messages
5,970
he doesn't recover at diagonals, and he can't perfectly sweetspot the ledge like almost every other character, so he's very easy to spike and edgegaurd, it's also very predictable
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
11,871
finally, Ness has his proper place in the tier list. finally.
 

MaskedMarth

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
555
Location
Chicago area
I'm beginning to think that Jigglypuff has more trouble coming down from the sky about an opponent than she does recovering.
 
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