Recovery/landing options and mix ups

[Anuran]

-Vine whip. Seems pretty poor at this stage in the game tho that is subject to change. Easy to sd. Can be used from weird angles like above the stage as a niche recovery. Probably not optimal tho.
-dair stall: allows for spiking overzealous opponents.
Slows decent allowing to get closer to the stage
-razor leaf to cover
how long inactionable post throwing one out??
-any reason not to switch to charizard???
also gives invincibility
-Razor leaf towards blast zone to allow to bair toward the stage to fend off edge guarding opponents.



-flare blitz, amazing horizontal but might put yourself offstage on other side if too close to stage
-fly is pretty good mix up going for ledge and past ledge to land onstage.
super armor
-3 jumps
-gets back a jump on switch to charizard



-solid aerial mobility
-waterfall not terrible same deal as fly with being able to also land on stage?
-switching to avoid stuff less viable since Ivysaur has ****tier options
-Withdraw towards stage? Potentially only good as a landing option depending on end lag. Also helpless fall when footstooled out of withdraw
-Wall cling -> wall jump or wall cling -> immediate waterfall
- waterfall facing away from the stage to hug diagonal stages like Battlefield (situational)
-Water gun the edge to cover
-Push yourself back towards the stage with turnaround water gun


Switch to stall against opponents going for an edge guard at the edge of their safe range

Will update main post as the discussion goes to represent current consensus.
Melee boy here could def use some input regarding ledge trump threats.
Add frame data from Reflexwonder and friends google sheets file?

 

[ZephyrZ]

Charizard's Fly also has super armor, which can be very useful against overly aggressive edge guarding.

 

[Anuran]

ivysaur dair, double jump switch to charizard gain another jump flareblitz/fly fly land on or off the ledge. The factorial recovery options of this character are going to be wild.

 

[chaostails7]

I've thought way too much about this.

Additions from what's currently on the main post:

Any:
Switch to stall against opponents going for an edge guard at the edge of their safe range

Ivysaur:

Razor leaf away from the ledge to turn around and allow bair edge pressure
Vine whip from crazy angles like above the stage

Squirtle:

Wall cling -> wall jump or wall cling -> immediate waterfall
Situational - waterfall facing away from the stage to hug diagonal stages like Battlefield
Water gun the edge to cover
Push yourself back towards the stage with turnaround water gun

Note: Withdraw should probably only be used for landing

Question: I've got more for landing options - do you want to expand the scope of this thread to encompass those too?

 

[Anuran]

Hey sorry it took so long to get back to you here. I am okay with broadening the scope of the discussion here.

 

[chaostails7]

Landing options:

Trainer
Change stall

Ivy
Dair aerial stall
Mixup normal dair with fast fall after dair (negates floatiness)
Fast-fall with backair (it has low landing lag and should cover Ivy for a long time while falling)

Charizard
Flare blitz
Landing dair

Squirtle
Withdraw (VERY situational)
B reverse water gun charge
Water gun release
Water charge -> Directional Dodge

Squirtle can pop back and forth a ton because of his neutral special. Between B-reversing the charge, releasing it, normal jump and Directional Air Dodge in addition to his great air acceleration and small hitbox, it should be really hard to catch the little guy. Which is good, because Charizard's options are pretty crappy XD