Reasoning behind Type Weakness/Resistance

[Zook]

As we all know, each Pokemon has a type, which effects how moves damage them. For example, Fire-typed Pokemon are doused by Water moves, but are resistant to Grass moves. Many of these weaknesses and resistances are obvious, but many aren't. Let's look at the Pokemon Attack/Type chart:


Water washes away dirt, so it makes sense that Ground-typed Pokemon take more damage from water. However, why are Ground-types resistant to Rocks? Why do bugs deal more damage to Psychic Pokemon? Gamefreak probably has a reasoning behind these advantages/disadvantages, but it isn't very clear. Let's try to figure them out.

First, lets get the obvious matchups out of the way:

→

Water douses fire.

→

Earth smothers fire.

→

Fire burns grass.

→

Bugs eat plants.

→

Cold temperatures kill plants.

→

Plants absorb water.

→

Water conducts electricity.

→

Flying Pokemon can fly out of reach of the hand-to-hand Fighting-types, and hit their weak spots.

→

Fire melts ice.

→

Rocks break ice.

→

Fire melts steel.

Let's see if we can justify each other matchup.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

This may be way out there, but I always thought Bugs hurt Psychic's so bad because they are so into the mental battles and stuff that they can't focus to see the small things around them, thus getting bit by a bug and fainting.

Also fighting and dark never made sense. Does Game Freak imply muscular mean beat up emo kids? (lol)

Also you forgot one, fighting smashes rocks, that kind of make's sense too. And fists can dent steel. Oh and ground can make building fall, I think that's a small reason to the ground>Steel thing

 

[Firus]

→

Water can weaken and deteriorate rocks. As Ovid said, "Gutta cavat lapidem" -- dripping water hollows out a rock.

Spoiler

I just cited Latin in a Pokémon thread, I think I'm officially a geek.

 

[LeviNifty]

Steel > Rock

Cause Steel can braek through rocks when hit hard enough =p

 

[Jim Morrison]

I think it's just to even things out. If they run out of stuff that seems logical, just do random stuff that balances it out.
Anyway, it's still fun to look for reasoning.

Dragon vs dragon is a big one that makes no sense to me.
Psychic > Fighting would be because fighters are usually sort of dumb and easily controlled mentally. Confusing them should also be not a problem.

 

[Spire]

Awesome thread Zook (and I replaced your arrows with actual arrows).

→

Bugs are small, chitinous creatures that generally dwell on plants and as such, are prone to burning.

→

Steel is a more durable substance than rock.

 

[Zook]

This may be way out there, but I always thought Bugs hurt Psychic's so bad because they are so into the mental battles and stuff that they can't focus to see the small things around them, thus getting bit by a bug and fainting.

That would make sense.

My take on the Bug vs. Psychic thing is that insects act nearly completely on instinct. They don't need to think to fight, so Psychic-types (who defend themselves with overwhelming will) aren't able to mess with the minds of insects.

Also fighting and dark never made sense. Does Game Freak imply muscular mean beat up emo kids? (lol)

I think that the Psychic-Dark-Fighting triangle was intentional, with each type representing an idea. Psychic represents mental strength, peace and intelligence; Fighting represents brute strength, bravery and low-intelligence; and Dark represents malicious strength, cowardess and chaos.

Brain beats brawn; Psychic beats Fighting. However, you can't plan your attacks against an unpredictable foe, making strategic strikes useless against Dark.

Weak-minded but brave, Fighting-types aren't phazed by the intimidating Dark-type and exploits their cowardly tendancies. Of course, brute strength alone doesn't always win, and intelligent foes can outsmart them.

The irratic and violent Dark Pokemon destroy the concentration of Psychics, and slash them to ribbons. If they can't intimidate their foes, though, their fighting style is rather ineffective. (Coincidentally, Dark moves are ineffective against Bug-types; perhaps its because insects are mindless?)

Also you forgot one, fighting smashes rocks, that kind of make's sense too. And fists can dent steel. Oh and ground can make building fall, I think that's a small reason to the ground>Steel thing

Go outside and punch a rock, and tell me who wins.

Same goes for Steel.

Eh, I guess that Ground thing kind of makes sense, but its a bit of a stretch.

 

[A_man13]

Electric -> Flying

See Ben Franklin. Higher targets are also much more subject to lightning strikes.

Fighting -> Poison

This has always been a weird one for me. I'd imagine it is because poison is not a solid surface (Ghastly, BRoom-I mean, grimers) and hard to punch.

And the one we all wish we could explain...

Ice >>> Dragon

I understand that the game designers wanted one thing that could destroy the "Ultimate type", but why ice instead of bug, grass, psychic, etc.?

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

^^ Well I went outside and punched a rock...after cleaning up the blood I soon realized your right.

So Fight>Rock makes no sense, neither does Dragon>Dragon.
I understand dark now, and the bug thing seems right as well.

One problem, you want to say water deteriorates rock, by that logic, wouldn't enough fire melt rock? just saying.

 

[Bowser_Gangsta]

->

Poison attacking draws on the ability to poison their opponents, and steel type are a bit robotic, therefore having no insides to intoxicate.

->

&

Fighters are trained to break through any hard substance. Poison probably resists this because they're so viscous (most of 'em.)

 

[Bowser King]

I think the difference is that fighting types in game are all strong looking and powerful (more then that of a normal human). This may be the reason why fighting > rock. For example, if a Machamp punched a geodude, it would likely cause cracks/huge damage because of the brute strength.

Dragon vs Dragon likely has to do with the rivalry dragons have with each other. Kinda like how when certain animals of the same species see each other they become a lot more violent. Since dragons don't really exist (at least, not the fire breathing kind) we really can't tell. For all we know, they might have some power that makes them hurt more when other dragons attack.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

^ I agree, it does kind of make sense. One I don't get is Fly > Grass... it doesn't really fit. Also, fighting>normal...why?

My best guess is the normals get owned by fighters, but couldn't they be owned by dragons too?


Edit: Discuss Ice>Dragon, it does make no sense. Also, we lack an Ice/Dragon..C'mon 5th gen!

 

[Spire]

Dragons have always been depicted in fantasy to fight with one another. A "dragon" is a symbol for a great force, even a country. To me, Dragon does not mean "giant winged fire-breathing reptilian", it means "a formidable beast of near-legendary status that can resemble just about anything". I consider Dragon and Behemoth interchangeable.

 

[Bowser_Gangsta]

Strong winds make blades of grass move or even break and fly away erratically. And trees bend if its Really bad.

And I'm not sure if I understand Normal x Ghost. I just always thought that Normal types weren't scared of or don't believe in ghosts, like us humans.

 

[A_man13]

Dragons have always been depicted in fantasy to fight with one another. A "dragon" is a symbol for a great force, even a country. To me, Dragon does not mean "giant winged fire-breathing reptilian", it means "a formidable beast of near-legendary status that can resemble just about anything". I consider Dragon and Behemoth interchangeable.

That's a good way to explain it. Flygon and Altaria are far from that dragon ideal yet it is more representative of their power.

 

[Bowser King]

Edit: Discuss Ice>Dragon, it does make no sense. Also, we lack an Ice/Dragon..C'mon 5th gen!

From all the in-game dragons we've seen, most of them seem cold blooded. This may be a possible explanation. Not sure how that would work for Flygon or altiria though.

 

[CRASHiC]

I'm a go with this logic= balance.

 

[Bowser_Gangsta]

Have we figured out Ice vs. Ground yet? Wouldn't it just like, melt into it?

 

[Mewter]

has an unpredictable hive mind, and it's overwhelming to

to try to resist/predict its pesky attacks, so

is always able to outmaneuver

.

beats

because it's straight-forward, determined, disciplined, and honorable.

You can kill

s easily with rocks.

Dragons are cold-blooded most likely and ice can also cool down their fiery spirit.

Psychics are super-effective against poison because they're pure and poison could (alongside dark and ghost, but in a different way) be a corrupt type. Mind over matter type thing.

Dark and Ghost types are evil, and can poison the mind of a Psychic type. They're like alien minds to the Psychic type.

Ice beats ground because water can freeze and expand inside of the ground, causing it to split apart. The ice later melts away and carries some of the ground with it. (Maybe)

 

[Sir Bedevere]

Go outside and punch a rock, and tell me who wins.

Same goes for Steel.

I think the reason why we lose (as bowser touched upon) is more that we are Normal type, which is resisted by Steel/Rock, and not fighting. Anything can "fight", but as bowser said, there is a certain amount of strength and technique required to be a true "Fighting" type.

Also, Steel>Ice for the same reasons as Steel>Rock.

Poison<Ground works since Ground is able to absorb the poison, and Ground>Poison since it can cover up and nullify it somewhat (Mud-slap).

Poison>Grass is like, the acid in poison corrodes the plants and makes them wilt.

And Ice>Dragon makes sense, since though Dragons' skin might be impervious to some forms of attack (Fire, etc), freezing the skin over makes it impossible to move. It also sort of relates to how dragons can be associated with dinosaurs, who would have been frozen in the Ice Age (if any of them had even survived).

Rock<Ground because Ground is already grounded, so trying to crush something so solidly-based with a Rock will probably damage the rock more than the ground. Steel doesn't < Ground, though, since it's too hard to take any damage from trying to smash the ground.

Ice>Ground since it freezes the ground over and prevents it from moving without breaking/cracking. It doesn't work on Rock, though, since freezing a rock doesn't really prevent it from smashing things (which is why it's neutral).

 

[Firus]

One problem, you want to say water deteriorates rock, by that logic, wouldn't enough fire melt rock? just saying.

What do you mean "by that logic"? Water DOES deteriorate rock...

And yes, fire can melt rock, but only at very, very extreme temperatures. If you went outside right now, covered a rock in oil, and threw a match on it, the rock would be burned but overall mostly unaffected.

 

[Mewter]

Ice should hit supeffectives against rock.
There's no reason it shouldn't beside type balancing in-game.

 

[UberMario]

Water ---> Fire: Water eliminates fires
Water ---> Ground: Water causes erosion of the soil forcibily moving it
Water ---> Rock: Similar to Ground, it breaks up rocks
Water -/-> Dragon: Dragons supposedly have thick hides, and using backwards logic their fire breath can protect themselves from water
Water -/-> Grass: Grass and Plants can absorb water
Water -/-> Water: Water can't destroy water. lol
Steel ---> Ice: A bizzare one, but steel isn't phased by ice and can destroy most forms of ice with little problem
Steel ---> Rock: Probably refers to how in earthquakes steel buidlings hold up better than buildings made of cement, rock, stone, etc.
Steel -/-> Electric: Steel conducts electricity, although it's beyond me why Steel wouldn't be totally immune to Electric rather than it being a neutral
Steel -/-> Fire: Hitting a fire with a steel weapon doesn't do much. lol
Steel -/-> Water: Water can flow around steel, but stainless steel doesn't rust so water isn't overly effective against it which is why it's neutral against steel.
Rock ---> Bug: *squishes bug with a rock* It's super effective! The bug did more than faint!
Rock ---> Fire: Rocks don't really burn unless in extreme conditions.
Rock ---> Flying: Most likely referring to "Kill two birds with one stone" or just to the general logic that most flying animals can get fatally injured relatively easy do to their dependence on their wings
Rock -/-> Fighting: I think the creators watched to many martial arts movies were people chopped rocks in half. lol
Rock -/-> Ground: Not much to say here that isn't a given, ground absorbs blows easily from falling rocks
Rock -/-> Steel: See about Steel, since Rock types logicaly should be neutral against Steel. imo
Psychic Dark: The strongest mentally can become overcome by the forces of evil for their stubborness? lol either that or maybe a Star Wars reference on how Anakin couldn't master psychic powers until he became part of the dark side.
Psychic ---> Fighting: Fighters can become predictable and tend to use the same, strongest aproach, rather than being strategic as psychics do.
Psychic ---> Poison: Psychics apparently know about medication and can find an antivenin for each poison.
Psychic -/-> Psychic: Countering with similar logic to lessen damage
Psychic -/-> Steel: Psychics use the essence of nature and steel isn't natural.
Poison ---> Grass: Similar to animals and people, plants are susceptible to poison.
Poison -/-> Ground: You can't poison ground persay, but you can poison the microbes and organisms in the soil, which is probably why this isn't a full immunity,
Poison -/-> Ghost: How the heck would you poison a ghost anyway? Should be an immunity. imo
Poison -/-> Poison: Poison is ineffective on poison, common sense.
Poison Steel: Try to poison an inanimate object, go ahead.
Normal -/-> Rock: It's hard for a person or animal to break rocks without tools unless they're a Blue Whale being thrown out of an aircraft.
Normal -/-> Steel: Steel is difficult to break, especially with bare claws.
Normal Ghost: Ghosts aren't physical and thus can only be hit with elements.
Ice ---> Dragon: Dragons are cold-blooded and can not survive in the cold.
Ice ---> Flying: Migrations of birds away from the cold and the frost that can kill insects
Ice ---> Grass: Frost kills plants
Ice ---> Ground: Ice causes the ground to solidify and be less mobile, also causes stress to the particles. Glaciers can carve ground away also. IMO This should have been a Ice ---> Rock instead since rocks can be stressed into breaking by the cold and can be pounded by icce flows.
Ice -/-> Fire: Ice can kind of lower the power of fire, but it isn't very effective since most of the ice disappates.
Ice -/-> Ice: Ice can't do too much damage to itself.
Ice -/-> Steel: Steel doesn't get stressed easily by the cold.
Ground ---> Electric: Electricity can be dissipated into the ground very easily, and can force the loss of conductivity.
Ground ---> Fire: You can use sand/dirt/etc. to put out a fire.
Ground ---> Poison: Ground clay can be used to remove SOME poisons from the body, and soil can dampen the potency of poison.
Ground ---> Rock: Erosion again, landslides can take out rocks.
Ground ---> Steel: Steel usually depends on good ground to stand, landslides can take out steel structures.
Ground -/-> Bug: Bugs can burrow into the ground.
Ground Flying: Apparently flying pokemon never land in battle, so they can't get hit by it.
Ground -/-> Grass: Plants use ground/soil as a foundation and trap it's ability to move.
Grass ---> Ground: Grass absorbs nutrients from the ground.
Grass ---> Rock: Rocks can be broken by tree roots.
Grass ---> Water: Plants absorbs water.
Grass -/-> Bug: Slapping insects with plants probably would make them more hungry than injured.
Grass -/-> Dragon: Oh look! Daises! Maybe I can kill the dragon with these! Oops, I was wrong.
Grass -/-> Fire: Fire absorbs organic material.
Grass -/-> Flying: Plants can't do much when a flying animal wants their leaves/fruits.
Grass -/-> Grass: Multiple plants can co-exist with each other without harm in most, but not all, cases.
Grass -/-> Poison: Grass can be poisoned, but poison can not really be destroyed by plants.
Grass -/-> Steel: Metal is hard to break down by organic material.
Ghost ---> Steel: Steel is too sturdy to effectively be possesed.
Ghost ---> Ghost: Supernatural beings are on the same playing field and thus can affect other spirits?
Ghost ---> Psychic: Ghosts aren't natural and are uncomprehensible to a psychic.
Ghost Normal: Either ghosts can't directly affect the lives of mortals or the programmers wanted to screw with players to force a stalemate since Normal can't affect Ghost either.
Ghost -/-> Dark: Dark characters are evil, and thus if ghosts are considered evil (as most of the "scary" ghost pokemon imply) then evil has a harder time being affected by evil than good (other stuff).
Flying ---> Bug: Most likey relates to the beta "Bird-type", since birds eat bugs.
Flying ---> Fighting: Animals that fly have an advantage in evasiness when compared to land-dwellers since their playing field is essentially in three-dimensions.
Flying ---> Grass: Bird nests, tree branches being perches, plants being habitats etc.
Flying ---> Steel: Cars beat birds and bugs
Flying -/-> Electric: Physical attacks aren't effectice against electricity, especially if the animal can have paralysis from a shock and drop to the ground from the air.
Fire ---> Bug: Bugs don't last long when burnt.
Fire ---> Grass: Fire burns plants.
Fire ---> Ice: Heat melts ice.
Fire ---> Steel: Fire can warp steel and can remove some of its strength
Fire -/-> Dragon: Dragons are supposed to breathe fire, so fire doesn't harm them badly.
Fire -/-> Fire: Fire can't harm fire.
Fire -/-> Rock: Rocks aren't overly affected by fire.
Fire -/-> Water: Technically you can burn water to make steam, but it's not very effective in an open enviornment (unless it's at a island volcano or something)
Fighting ---> Dark: Bad guys usually get punched by Captain Falcon the heroes in stories.
Fighting ---> Ice: Ice can be crushed with solid punches, but it's kind of pointless in real life.
Fighting ---> Normal: Normal people easy to beat up by strong idiot. *grunts*
Fighting ---> Rock: Fighters can crush rocks, IN FILMS
Fighting ---> Steel: Fighters can bend metal, in their dreams IN FILMS
Fighting -/-> Bug: Fighters usually aim at large targets and have difficulty hitting a specific, small area.
Fighting -/-> Flying: Fighters are usually in close-range combat, and flying animals easily can get out of range by moving vertically.
Fighting -/-> Poison: Fighters usually are pumped and hyper, allowing poison to course through more rapidly and poison isn't really that easy to punch to oblivion if you ask scientists.
Fighting -/-> Psychic: The fighters see how smart the psychics are and get weakened by depression, recolleting how they never could ace that math test and become a vetrinarian for their life long dream to save poor little puppies lives. ok, the psychics predict what the fighter will do and chose a method to not be as injured.
Fighting Ghost: Mortals can not harm immortals with petty things such as mere strength fool, mwah hah hah hah.
Electric ---> Flying: Paralysis from shock can result in a bird plummeting towards its death faint.
Electric ---> Water: Electricity can move faster and course through water quicker than air.
Electric -/-> Dragon: Thick hides and large size dampen the effects of lightning.
Electric -/-> Electric: Electricity can not be electricuted. lol
Electric -/-> Grass: Well, trees do survive lightning strikes. Although maybe it should occasionally result in a burn status in the next generation.
Electric Ground: The ground can absorb electricity.
Dragon ---> Dragon: Their high defense is only rivaled by their attack power, which can break another dragon's hide.
Dragon -/-> Steel: Swords and tales of medieval times. Don't know why Steel isn't super-effective by that logic though.
Dark ---> Ghost: Dark minds can do more damage than evil spirits? Should be reversed honestly. Since ghosts "live" in the darkness.
Dark ---> Psychic: Obviously to give Psychic a weakness of some sort, but I see it as the unearthly power that pure psychic souls can not master.
Dark -/-> Dark: Darkness can not be made more dark than no light, and thus can only be "spoiled" by more darkness if there is light. IMO this should actually be an immunity matchup like Normal vs Ghost.
Dark -/-> Fighting: Evil masterminds aren't very strong once you defeat their henchmen.
Dark -/-> Steel: Metal can not be evil.
Bug ---> Dark: Roaches and what not live in the dark and thus know all of it's secrets and places to take advantage of.
Bug ---> Grass: Aphids, weevils, and other insects prey on plant parts.
Bug ---> Psychic: Bugs can be distracting and can take away from a being's train of thought.
Bug -/-> Fighting: Sure the bug can dodge the blows of a fighter, but it takes time for the bug to attack since it can only stay in one spot for so long when vulnerable.
Bug -/-> Fire: A bug isn't going to do much with a fire besides commit suicide.
Bug -/-> Flying: Again referring to the beta "Bird-type". attacking your predator is not a bright idea.
Bug -/-> Ghost: Bugs are close to "being normal" and thus since they seem somewhat unearthly [but not really] they have some affect on ghosts.
Bug -/-> Poison: Insect spray, 'nuff said.
Bug -/-> Steel: Bugs can not burrow or damage steel, plus cars turn them into nice juicy, oozing pancakes.

All I can say is Dark type is a mess, and I have to lol since I was ninja'd by 11 posts.

 

[Mewter]

That's amazing, Ubermario!

I like the creativity a lot! It was very fun to read.

Edit: "Psychics apparently know about medication and can find an antivenin for each poison."

 

[UberMario]

That's amazing, Ubermario.

Thanks, it took me a while, although not two hours. lol

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Have we figured out Ice vs. Ground yet? Wouldn't it just like, melt into it?

Ice would freeze the ground over, making its properites more ice. Ice wins.

-Terywj

 

[Charmander]

And I'm not sure if I understand Normal x Ghost. I just always thought that Normal types weren't scared of or don't believe in ghosts, like us humans.

spirits cannot physicaly interact with the living, only speak to them or guide them. You cant Touch a ghost either, just freak out if you see one.

And WHY is Fire NOT super effective on Poison?????

 

[Terywj [태리]]

How do you expect fire to be supereffective on poison? They're completely different elements (in both game and nature).

Explain yourself.

-Terywj

 

[Charmander]

How do you expect fire to be supereffective on poison? They're completely different elements (in both game and nature).

Explain yourself.

-Terywj

Light a poison/chemical on fire, It makes more fire
(usually an explosion)
Gasoline , carbon monoxide, and methanol all are flamable

 

[Mewter]

Every poison Pokemon so far has used organic poison, bar the Gengar family.

 

[Charmander]

Every poison Pokemon so far has used organic poison, bar the Gengar family.

Muk?
Koffing?

Besides, nerotoxin is flamble

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

^ I've considered that too, but meh.
Honestly, some of the combination are just really sad. Example: Latios is Dragon/Psychic, therefore he is weak to bugs. A dragon being weak to bugs is funny. I know it's impossible to alter that, but still.. it's sad. Just like how...Dragonite can get a flamethrower to the face and resist it...but because of his tiny wings, a boulder thrown at him suddenly does x2.. Sometimes the concept is iffy.

 

[xLeafybug =D]

Threads like this make me wonder just how seriously some of you take this game... Just saying.

 

[Charmander]

Threads like this make me wonder just how seriously some of you take this game... Just saying.

Pokemon is serious business.

 

[Zook]

Threads like this make me wonder just how seriously some of you take this game... Just saying.

If you think this is 'too serious,' check out pretty much all of Spire's Pokemon threads.

 

[Mewter]

What we need is an uber real in-depth, special analysis of the lore of the Pokemon world.
Look at all of the material there is to work with!

 

[Charmander]

What we need is an uber real in-depth, special analysis of the lore of the Pokemon world.
Look at all of the material there is to work with!

I made this HUGE lore for my new 5th6th gen fan game.
Should I post it? It has pokemon that dont even exist.....

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Then it's perfectly suitable for posting in the SWF-Dex. Knock yourself out.

-Terywj

 

[pitskeyblade]

Anyone have a theory on why Flying > Fighting? This was a great idea for a thread.

 

[Night-san]

Hahah, I've tried to figure out some of these before to no avail. .3. Anyone else get to the point where they don't have to make sense... They just "feel right"? Even if they'd have no reason in nature?

Have we mentioned Fire -> Steel? Fire melts Steel.
Fire -> Bug... Fire scorches bugs? Like ants in a magnifying glass? xD
Ice -> Flying- Ice freezes their wings so they can't fly.
Steel -> Ice- Machinery dominates nature's obstacle of ice, perhaps? That would explain Steel -> Rock too.
Rock -> Flying- I kind've imagine being caught in the move Rock Slide or Rock Throw. My friend who's my little brother
's age can be a stupid kid sometimes, ans he threw a small stone at a seagull and hit it. It immediatly fell, its wing broken, poor thing. Prime example.

Just a few thoughts. Though most of these were at the "feel right" stage, like instinct. xD There are only a few that don't ring like that for me, which are the ones that I have a harder time remembering, which usually end up being the ones I use less. ._.