Rayman Revolution - Spirit of Dreams

Klimax

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I hope we finally get Rayman 4 after Michel Ancel is done working on WiLD and Beyond Good & Evil 2.
It could be the boost that Rayman needs to finally get in Smash Bros because Origins and Legends did nothing to help him in my opinion.
 

BirthNote

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Hey everyone, I've been working on a Rayman moveset on and off so I wanna show the latest addition:

While using his hands to hold his foe, Rayman fires his foot into his enemy's gut; he simultaneously launches them outward thanks to the force of his kick, AND makes them wanna vomit lol. The hitstun is respectable and the move can KO at 80%.

And here's the layout. A simple sequence overall, but still necessary to show.

Also here's another drawing I recently completed:
Origins and Legends did nothing to help him in my opinion.
Can you elaborate? I disagree but I'm genuinely curious.
 
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BirthNote

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Your idea of moveset seems pretty good so far and that make me think Rayman could be one of the first long range fist fighter on smash ultimate.
YES. He can boast a lot of range and a healthy amount of raw power. I can picture his wind up punches like the ones from Origins/Legends to be very strong for his weight class and size.
 

Klimax

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Can you elaborate? I disagree but I'm genuinely curious.
Well first, it's personal but I got massively disappointed by Rayman Origins. That game has nothing to do with the first Rayman outside of the presence of enemies from this game. Gameplay is different (Origins is fast and easy while OG Rayman is slow and tense). The music is different, I don't think Origins OST has the same magic, I don't feel that dream vibes that I felt with the first Rayman. Characters have no personality anymore, Rayman is not that cool guy wanting to relax in peace, he's just crazy, dumb and tries to be funny. Globox is not the dumb but nice dude from the previous, he's just crazy, dumb and tries to be funny. And that's pretty much the same for everyone, I wouldn't be surprised if this game and Legends are just a parody and it's actually the Raving Rabbids disguised as Rayman and the others. Also, there's nothing that makes me want to play the game, there's no story at all. OG Rayman had nearly nothing, but you knew what was going on, you had explanations for the bonus stages, you knew why you had to break cages, you knew what wanted Mister Dark, heck, you even had the justification of the world map. In Origins, you have absolutely nothing, it doesn't even make me want to finish the game.

Rayman Legends is kinda the same game, just much better on the level design department. So, once again, it plays good, it looks good but damn, it is so boring. You could replace Rayman and his friends by whoever you want and that would still works. And that's what is depressing to me, because when I see Origins and Legends, I don't see what made Rayman special. I just a really good but boring (in the sense that I don't even want to complete it because I don't know what's going on. Legends has more "story" but that's still laughable) platformer.


I could talk for hours about the first three Rayman. I can barely talk about Legends and Origins. Because in my opinion, it lacks what made Rayman special (they even made Murfy boring). That's why I think these two games didn't help Rayman's chances. And that's why I can't wait for Rayman 4, because I really hope they bring back the real Rayman (that's how bad I don't find Legends and Origins interesting compared to the first three).
 

BirthNote

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Well first, it's personal but I got massively disappointed by Rayman Origins. That game has nothing to do with the first Rayman outside of the presence of enemies from this game. Gameplay is different (Origins is fast and easy while OG Rayman is slow and tense). The music is different, I don't think Origins OST has the same magic, I don't feel that dream vibes that I felt with the first Rayman. Characters have no personality anymore, Rayman is not that cool guy wanting to relax in peace, he's just crazy, dumb and tries to be funny. Globox is not the dumb but nice dude from the previous, he's just crazy, dumb and tries to be funny. And that's pretty much the same for everyone, I wouldn't be surprised if this game and Legends are just a parody and it's actually the Raving Rabbids disguised as Rayman and the others. Also, there's nothing that makes me want to play the game, there's no story at all. OG Rayman had nearly nothing, but you knew what was going on, you had explanations for the bonus stages, you knew why you had to break cages, you knew what wanted Mister Dark, heck, you even had the justification of the world map. In Origins, you have absolutely nothing, it doesn't even make me want to finish the game.

Rayman Legends is kinda the same game, just much better on the level design department. So, once again, it plays good, it looks good but damn, it is so boring. You could replace Rayman and his friends by whoever you want and that would still works. And that's what is depressing to me, because when I see Origins and Legends, I don't see what made Rayman special. I just a really good but boring (in the sense that I don't even want to complete it because I don't know what's going on. Legends has more "story" but that's still laughable) platformer.


I could talk for hours about the first three Rayman. I can barely talk about Legends and Origins. Because in my opinion, it lacks what made Rayman special (they even made Murfy boring). That's why I think these two games didn't help Rayman's chances. And that's why I can't wait for Rayman 4, because I really hope they bring back the real Rayman (that's how bad I don't find Legends and Origins interesting compared to the first three).
OK, that's fine. Personally I really enjoyed all 5 main Rayman games, and Origins/Legends are some of my favorite platformers of their time.

With Origins, you're right; they debuted it as an Origin story but then made it a sequel without telling anyone, then scrapped the story, most of the dialogue but kept the same "plot". I remember really enjoying the game, but being so confused by the story that I went online to understand it. Apparently, the Magician from the 1st game went bad due to being fed up with Rayman's/Globox's stupidity and Polokus's (aka the Bubble Dreamer) ineptitude, since he can't stop his evil thoughts from terrorizing the good ones. So he provokes a fight between the 2 factions by placing a microphone near Globox snoring, putting Rayman on a quest to fix it and give the Magician Lums along the way. He was using the Lums to build a robot army and a flying fortress so that when he was ready, he'd kill Polokus and bring his own form of order. There's scrapped dialogue in the game's file that detailed this.

"Story" aside, the game is a lot of fun and has a lot of character and charm in it. It certainly breathed new life into the series; Rayman's far more agile than he's ever been and has more combat options than he's ever had in one game. Before Origins, the most we've seen of Rayman is throw simple punches, a kick in Rayman 3 (1st level) and shoot rockets, fling chains and energy balls in Rayman 2. Now, Rayman's got so many attack options that you can literally fill out at least 66% of an SSB moveset from origins alone. We got sweep kicks, uppercuts, spinning punches, jabs, roundhouse kicks, groundpounds and much more; in one game Rayman's attack options quadrupled. Before that, people thought Rayman could only wind up his fist to punch. And while he's the most fragile he's ever been, being able to wall-jump, and run up and down vertical slopes with amazing level design and action-packed sequences is a fine trade for me. His attacks alone helped him tremendously for moveset speculation.

Then we have Legends. Aesthetically speaking, it is more generic; taking a fairytale approach didn't do it much favors, but I give it credit for having a more... I guess comprehensible story than Origins and an actual final boss. Considering that he escaped last time, it's refreshing to put a stop to the Magician for good, and fascinating to see what happened to the Glade 100 years after Origins. The Desert of Didgeridoos (which was probably Band Land 100s of years ago) became a wasteland sadly, the Sea of Serendipity got polluted by the Magician's flying city AND became his new hideout, and Gourmand Land looks like it's turning back into the Candy Chateau in some areas but rotting in others. When they're not taking the generic route (Olympus Maximus) it's great to see continuity, which we almost never see in the games, and gameplay-wise Legends is even better than Origins. Even the Murphy levels were surprisingly fun, the boss fights were the best in all 5 games overall (but Reflux in the Desert is its own category of amazing), the Music Levels are a highlight, and the online challenges give so much replay value it's insane.

Both Origins and Legends are so good, that like the new DKCs, they've been upstaging the New Super Mario's and making those look like soulless cash-ins by comparison. It's more smooth and organic compared to NSMB's stilted nature. Even Legends's generic aesthetic doesn't seem half as cookie-cutter as NSMB, and while the main guys have been dumbed down into hyperactive psychos who want to break jaws, the games have made Rayman one of the few 90's platformers who have resurged without needing a remake. The high praise that the games get definitely helps Rayman stand as a video game hall of fame icon, and shows he has the merit to be in Smash.
 

MrMcNuts

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Hey everyone, I've been working on a Rayman moveset on and off so I wanna show the latest addition:

While using his hands to hold his foe, Rayman fires his foot into his enemy's gut; he simultaneously launches them outward thanks to the force of his kick, AND makes them wanna vomit lol. The hitstun is respectable and the move can KO at 80%.

And here's the layout. A simple sequence overall, but still necessary to show.

Also here's another drawing I recently completed:

Can you elaborate? I disagree but I'm genuinely curious.
Boi this is amazing! You have a Twitter at all to follow?
 

Ed-boy

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Lookin' cool, BirthNote!


But yeah, taking consideration into what the OG trilogy did better than the Ubiart duology and vice-versa just makes me think that a more "rounded" skillset should be established for Rayman in the future, both for Smash and future (particularly 3D) titles.

R1's boomerang-physics fists and plum shenanigans
R2's beam projectiles and strafing
R3's power-ups
Origins/Legends' quick n' agile movement and combat

A unification (and expansion) of all these should be the standard for what Ray can do, and the level design/mechanics based around it, from here on.
Also a return to his "righteous yet laidback" portrayal. That's how I feel at least.
 
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I might be wrong but the fact that he's a trophy in 4 and a spirit in ultimate kinda prove that Rayman doesn't appeal to Nintendo
Au contraire, it proves Nintendo does care about him! Rayman and Bit Trip Runner are the only third-party series that have trophies in Smash 4 despite not having playable representation (joined by Shantae in Ultimate). Trying to predict Smash is a sucker's game, but we definitely know which series Sakurai has his eye on, at least.

...or a recreation of the Snoring Tree "beatboxing" from Origins' intro.

This, but with DK n' Kirby in place of Globox n' the King, Mario in place of Goth Teensy on the branch, and Banjo in place of Polokus, all snoozing to the beat of the Ultimate theme.
Tell me to my face that this wouldn't be full of win.
Hmm... DK and Kirby sound right, but there's nothing goth about Mario, or froggy/godly about Banjo. I'd say either Greninja (for the frogginess) or Palutena (for the godliness) in place of Polokus, and... hmm, I suddenly find myself dismayed that Ashley isn't in Smash. Meta Knight in place of Goth Teensy?
 

Ed-boy

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Oh, I'm aware of the discrepancies. I just wanna see a recreation of the scene with Ray chillin' with Smash's other platformer mascots (well, sans Sonic & Mega Man...oops). Though the thought of having Palutena/Greninja and Meta Knight does fit and gives me a chuckle...
 

Planet Cool

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Oh, now I want Mega Man in the scene too. He's my second favorite third-party character in Smash, after Banjo and Kazooie.

By the way, I've been watching Nitro Rad's videos on Rayman and that's given me some moveset ideas. For example, one of his moves (his side tilt, maybe?) could be the little energy balls he throws in Rayman 2, and maybe his Final Smash could be one of those canned super-suits from Rayman 3.
 

Ed-boy

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Very appropriate of you to bring up moveset ideas, considering BrawlFan1 just uploaded the latest entry in his "What if - was in Smash?" series.

Dude made some deep cuts for the specials (though I don't agree with all 4 specials referencing just Arena). Rubber bullets sound more fun than R2's light beams, and I especially dig the sliding mechanic, nicely recreates the mobility of Origins/Legends.
 
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I was thinking about something that I haven't seen anyone talking.
Rayman_SSB.jpg

BsrHF-aIEAAHlLF.jpg


The model of Rayman trophy on Sakurai's Miiverse post looks different from the model in Smash 4. It's seems to be that Sakurai asked his team to change the model Ubisoft sent by themselves to give Rayman more wacky cartoony look from Rayman Origins/Legends. Smash dev team and Sakurai could keep the weird look on Rayman's face if they didn't care. This is kinda reminds me the situation with King K.Rools Mii costume. Like, why bother changing things if you don't have any plans for the characters... unless!

And ones again. The names of removed costumes from SMM for 3DS looks interesting because Roy and Ryu are DLC characters in Smash 4.


I can't find the news post, but I remember Michel Ancel told that Rayman maybe will be in Smash in interview, wich mean that Ubisoft planed to make Rayman playable since 2014. In that year SMM for 3DS was released and development of Mario+Rabbids game started. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It was quite interesting to include Rayman in the game similar to Smash, I'm talking about Brawlhalla. Development team behind Brawlhalla started making Rayman a playable around May I guess. Rayman was announced to be a new legend in Brawlhalla at September 1st, at Rayman's Anniversary. Ubisoft probably decided to make Rayman playable at least in that game to make fans happy and because they knew that Sakurai didn't have any plans for Rayman yet.
All 5 characters in Fighter Pass was chosen before Joker was announced. We can't confirm who these characters are.

Before Super Smash Bros Ultimate released, unlike any other companies that got their characters as spirit, Ubisoft didn't make any post about Rayman being spirit in the game, which is very interesting. The Rabbid spirits originated from a Mario game, and the game lacks spirit characters from Prince of Persia, Assassin's Creed, Just Dance and many other games. The spirits of Rayman and Rabbids doesn't fully represents the company.

Yeah, there's no Rayman Online Icon in the game. From what I remember there's no icons of all characters from roaster and 3rd spirits in the game, and there's also such characters like Raiden who don't have any fan demand. So online icons doesn't hint any new character.

There's some wired things happening to Super Mario RPG music. I recommend you to watch PapaGenos video for better understanding ( https://youtu.be/IgtOGullSMY ).
It's seems to be that Nintendo achieved some agreements from SE, and now they have more rights on SM RPG things. If Geno will be a new DLC character, this will break the rule about spirits deconfirmation.

Maybe I'm missing something? What do you think?
 
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BirthNote

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I was thinking about something that I haven't seen anyone talking.
View attachment 231361
View attachment 231360

The model of Rayman trophy on Sakurai's Miiverse post looks different from the model in Smash 4. It's seems to be that Sakurai asked his team to change the model Ubisoft sent by themselves to give Rayman more wacky cartoony look from Rayman Origins/Legends. Smash dev team and Sakurai could keep the weird look on Rayman's face if they didn't care. This is kinda reminds me the situation with King K.Rools Mii costume. Like, why bother changing things if you don't have any plans for the characters... unless!

And ones again. The names of removed costumes from SMM for 3DS looks interesting because Roy and Ryu are DLC characters in Smash 4.


I can't find the news post, but I remember Michel Ancel told that Rayman maybe will be in Smash in interview, wich mean that Ubisoft planed to make Rayman playable since 2014. In that year SMM for 3DS was released and development of Mario+Rabbids game started. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It was quite interesting to include Rayman in the game similar to Smash, I'm talking about Brawlhalla. Development team behind Brawlhalla started making Rayman a playable around May I guess. Rayman was announced to be a new legend in Brawlhalla at September 1st, at Rayman's Anniversary. Ubisoft probably decided to make Rayman playable at least in that game to make fans happy and because they knew that Sakurai didn't have any plans for Rayman yet.
All 5 characters in Fighter Pass was chosen before Joker was announced. We can't confirm who these characters are.

Before Super Smash Bros Ultimate released, unlike any other companies that got their characters as spirit, Ubisoft didn't make any post about Rayman being spirit in the game, which is very interesting. The Rabbid spirits originated from a Mario game, and the game lacks spirit characters from Prince of Persia, Assassin's Creed, Just Dance and many other games. The spirits of Rayman and Rabbids doesn't fully represents the company.

Yeah, there's no Rayman Online Icon in the game. From what I remember there's no icons of all characters from roaster and 3rd spirits in the game, and there's also such characters like Raiden who don't have any fan demand. So online icons doesn't hint any new character.

There's some wired things happening to Super Mario RPG music. I recommend you to watch PapaGenos video for better understanding ( https://youtu.be/IgtOGullSMY ).
It's seems to be that Nintendo achieved some agreements from SE, and now they have more rights on SM RPG things. If Geno will be a new DLC character, this will break the rule about spirits deconfirmation.

Maybe I'm missing something? What do you think?
I remember speculation being lit ablaze over this, and many assuming he's playable, and one was his Smash trophy while the other was his generic trophy (think of the many Mario trophies there are).

Honestly, throughout the whole time I doubted that was the case. It seemed more likely that the one Sakurai showed was the one Ancel's team made, and the one we got was what Ubisoft as a corporate entity mandated. Ancel's a weird guy; a lot of his stuff is wacky and unusual even from his earliest games; most trailers involving him have an oddball charm to them. It's far more plausible that Ubisoft didn't like the model and somebody had to craft a design around Origins/Legends. They have a certain image of Rayman they want portrayed and this fits that generic mold.
 
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I think the Smash community is still in the dark on the last two candidates. Sure we have our ideas on who is more likely and who isn't but Sakurai has been surprising everyone throughout Ultimate's development.
 
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Honestly, throughout the whole time I doubted that was the case. It seemed more likely that the one Sakurai showed was the one Ancel's team made, and the one we got was what Ubisoft as a corporate entity mandated. Ancel's a weird guy; a lot of his stuff is wacky and unusual even from his earliest games; most trailers involving him have an oddball charm to them. It's far more plausible that Ubisoft didn't like the model and somebody had to craft a design around Origins/Legends. They have a certain image of Rayman they want portrayed and this fits that generic mold.
Yeah, if the trophy is not the case, we still have more evidence around Rayman's possibility of him being a fighter in a future.
 
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Odd when one considers how rounded Globox & Barbara's trophies look by comparison...
Maybe because they wasn't meant to be in the game originally, and devs didn't have time to change them? I mean, there was no mentions about Globox and Barbara trophies on Sakurai's original post.
zGvQqx8.png
and there's still no spirits of them in the Ultimate...
 
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