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Rayman Revolution

ZoroCarlos

ZoroCarlos

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Bayonetta the character is a decent enough note. People only pretend otherwise because she ruined Smash 4 competitive and that's really not the same area of criticism as Byleth or Incineroar.

Rayman is a high note for us but others would not consider it so. That's a subjective statement. I think Rayman as a final reveal isn't that farfetched.
 
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MrMcNuts

MrMcNuts

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ZoroCarlos said:
Bayonetta the character is a decent enough note. People only pretend otherwise because she ruined Smash 4 competitive and that's really not the same area of criticism as Byleth or Incineroar.

Rayman is a high note for us but others would not be considered so by many others. That's a subjective statement. I think Rayman as a final reveal isn't that farfetched.
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He could be a lownote for Japan, which boosts his chances! Lol
 
JamesDNaux

JamesDNaux

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MrMcNuts said:
Not saying he's for sure happening but I don't wanna be a Debbie downer quite yet
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Even if you think the last character won't be a downer, it'll still be someone worse than Kazuya.
If Shirtless Ryu was the best they could do for E3 then I doubt the last fighter will even be third party at all.
 
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JamesDNaux

JamesDNaux

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MrMcNuts said:
You started the original twitter campaign, you're the strongest of us all captain James :'(
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And you took it far further than I ever could have.

I appreciate your optimism for the next game, but I can't wait ten long years for a new game that'll have cuts galore just to hope for Rayman, I'm getting old.
 
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mariofan48

mariofan48

Smash Journeyman
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mariorocks4life
JustASora/CrashSupporter said:
Gotta say, I really appreciate the optimism in here. While the Crash thread has sort of given up hope at this point, this one hasn't. Like ZoroCarlos said, if that "loose end theory" is anything to go by, then Rayman getting in doesn't sound too far-fetched.
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I'll admit, I don't want to give up either... but it's gotten really, really hard...
 
A

AnAmusingFellow

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 15, 2021
Messages
21
Yeah, gonna be honest, if Fighters Pass 2 really is the end and Rayman ain't the final character then I think I'm done rooting for him to get in Smash, because it's likely gonna be another decade before the next game and by that point a good chunk of Ultimate's roster will probably be cut and I honestly don't feel like waiting that long for him to maybe get in.

Granted, I do think it's possible he could still be the final character and they're just saving him 'till last because of his lack of popularity in Japan but I ain't holding my breath, seeing all these tinfoil hat theories is kinda fun but I don't wanna keep getting my hopes up.

If he doesn't get in then I'll just hope he gets a new game at some point, or at least something somewhat big (like that cartoon if it really is about Rayman and doesn't get quietly cancelled).
 
mariofan48

mariofan48

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mariorocks4life
AnAmusingFellow said:
Yeah, gonna be honest, if Fighters Pass 2 really is the end and Rayman ain't the final character then I think I'm done rooting for him to get in Smash, because it's likely gonna be another decade before the next game and by that point a good chunk of Ultimate's roster will probably be cut and I honestly don't feel like waiting that long for him to maybe get in.

Granted, I do think it's possible he could still be the final character and they're just saving him 'till last because of his lack of popularity in Japan but I ain't holding my breath, seeing all these tinfoil hat theories is kinda fun but I don't wanna keep getting my hopes up.

If he doesn't get in then I'll just hope he gets a new game at some point, or at least something somewhat big (like that cartoon if it really is about Rayman and doesn't get quietly cancelled).
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To be fair, Banjo Kazooie fans perserved for over 20 years and they finally got the character that they wanted, so I definitely don't think we should throw in the towel right away. Rayman will keep getting requested and he'll keep getting bigger and bigger.
 
A

AnAmusingFellow

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Messages
21
mariofan48 said:
To be fair, Banjo Kazooie fans perserved for over 20 years and they finally got the character that they wanted, so I definitely don't think we should throw in the towel right away. Rayman will keep getting requested and he'll keep getting bigger and bigger.
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I know, but I don't think I have the energy to continue rooting for him much longer. Been wanting him in for 7 years now and waiting potentially another 10+ seems like way too much for me personally, I gotta move on at some point.

Happy to see that most of you guys are gonna continue supporting him even if he's still not in by the time Ultimate's DLC cycle's over though, hope you all get your wish someday if he doesn't make the cut this time. But as for me, I'm probably just gonna dip after all this, and I'm making sure not to get my hopes up too high for the final character (if the next really is the last one) to avoid being disappointed.

It's been fun though, you guys are really passionate about Rayman and that makes me happy. It's nice knowing that despite how he's been treated by his parent company for nearly a decade people still love this funky guy and wanna see him make a comeback, whether in a new game or as a Smash character. Hopefully someday we'll see him finally get his time in the limelight again.
 
volbound1700

volbound1700

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mariofan48 said:
To be fair, Banjo Kazooie fans perserved for over 20 years and they finally got the character that they wanted, so I definitely don't think we should throw in the towel right away. Rayman will keep getting requested and he'll keep getting bigger and bigger.
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He mostly got in due to STEVE if you believe all of the discussions.

I am concerned that Ubisoft will stick in Ezio or a Rabbid character before Rayman. This is frustrating.
 
TheInvader!

TheInvader!

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Jun 5, 2021
Messages
5
I'm not gonna give up.
Rayman could actually make sense for the last character.

Grant still not revealing that one surprise
Could easily come with Mario + Rabbids stuff to promote the new game
Fits Smash's history with promotional characters ending off
Will also fit Smash's history of let down characters (this time for Japan)
Fits this new Color theory 2
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Even if Rayman isn't in, we know they're doing something with him.
There's the cartoon, a possible new game, and the short that's going to play before the Rabbids movie.

Rayman will be far from dead. Patience will just be key.
 
ZoroCarlos

ZoroCarlos

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Jun 21, 2018
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1,037
Yeah, I get it. People don't want to maintain hope for three boring months only to be let down once more. While I like being positive, I'd hate leading people along for it to amount to nothing.

But you know? Even if it all fails, at least we will have gone out trying. We've had fun, with too many nods and possible indicators and a continuously growing Twitter campaign.

We are Rayman fans. We've pushed through dozens of hardships across the years and still stick around to support the lad. It's gonna happen some day. And if it's not for #11, then I'll be seeing you all again for Smash 6. I'm not giving up that easy. But until our final character is set in stone, I'm gonna remain optimistic and hopefully not as corny as this post.
 
Boorepellent

Boorepellent

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Aug 21, 2018
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109
I've been playing Rayman Redemption to get me through it, and it's helping me keep my head in the game. As TheInvader mentioned, we do have some stuff to look forward to, and as long as the fans don't forget him you better believe we'll get masterpieces like this: https://gamejolt.com/games/raymanredemption/340532

And who's to say someone doesn't make a bigger, better smash equivalent one day? When I was coming up no one thought anyone could top MvC as far as hype crossover games were concerned. Then Smash came along. Games are still kind of a new medium. There could be some Avengers: Endgame level stuff coming our way 15-20 years from now that'll make Smash seem quaint by comparison.

I mean, since we're being big old corn balls in here.
 
MrMcNuts

MrMcNuts

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Mar 15, 2018
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815
It's like Zoro said above, no one can take a beating like us Rayman fans, we're tougher than the toughies!!! I know a 20 year wait sounds intimidating, but it's not like banjo fans just sat and did nothing. We have other games, hobbies, and irl stuff that we focus on. The smash speculation scene is just a fun thing to be in on when there's a current game coming out or dlc is on going. Obviously no one needs to stay on the Rayman train, but it has been a great experience meeting all of ya and discussing the series. With how much support the twitter campaign has amassed, I don't plan to ditch the account even if he's not the last fighter.

Also like stated above, I agree that we could definitely see a smash game in the future that outdoes ultimate or has more hype. Hell smash is smash. It's gonna have hype regardless! Whichever smash game Rayman makes it into is gonna be an awesome moment no matter what!
 
A

AnAmusingFellow

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Messages
21
MrMcNuts said:
It's like Zoro said above, no one can take a beating like us Rayman fans, we're tougher than the toughies!!! I know a 20 year wait sounds intimidating, but it's not like banjo fans just sat and did nothing. We have other games, hobbies, and irl stuff that we focus on. The smash speculation scene is just a fun thing to be in on when there's a current game coming out or dlc is on going. Obviously no one needs to stay on the Rayman train, but it has been a great experience meeting all of ya and discussing the series. With how much support the twitter campaign has amassed, I don't plan to ditch the account even if he's not the last fighter.

Also like stated above, I agree that we could definitely see a smash game in the future that outdoes ultimate or has more hype. Hell smash is smash. It's gonna have hype regardless! Whichever smash game Rayman makes it into is gonna be an awesome moment no matter what!
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I'm curious, what do ya plan on doing with the Twitter account if Rayman does end up getting in? Will it just end up becoming a general Rayman account or something? Or will it end up being archived like the Steve one?
 
EternalFlameGuy

EternalFlameGuy

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Oct 29, 2020
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Hey all, hope you've been good! So, how about that Kazuya trailer... 😅 I see most of the post fighter reveal discussion has already taken place. Apologies again for having not been able to discuss with ya'll, work's been crazy. I also see that there seems to be a bit of a split between people who want to keep fighting and those that wish to waive the flag. It ain't over till it's over, but I understand if you're just too bummed after so long. For those of you still up for speculation til we see that last fighter: let's keep it up!! Doesn't look like anything noteworthy has popped up since yesterday, but keep those eyes peeled. Trademarks are still active, Ubisoft is still pretending Rayman doesn't exist, discourse seems as fiery as ever. I have been thinking about loose end theory though, definitely seems to be the sole link between this batch of characters. Rayman certainly fits for a number of reasons!
 
ZoroCarlos

ZoroCarlos

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Jun 21, 2018
Messages
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It's funny to me that we've joked about Rayman being in the ice so much that some people actually believe we take that argument seriously.

It's become more of a "Wouldn't it be funny if Sakurai acknowledged it?" but never have I seen anyone say it was an intentional decision by Sakurai for the ice to purposefully look like Rayman.
 
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ZoroCarlos

ZoroCarlos

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EternalFlameGuy

EternalFlameGuy

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JustASora/CrashSupporter

JustASora/CrashSupporter

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T

TAnimal

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ZoroCarlos said:
Gonna go over the juice.

Loose End Theory:
The characters that are part of the Smash Ultimate Fighter Pass Vol. 2 were chosen somewhere around the same timeframe in which the base game released, December 2018. This includes characters who were considered to be too late to be considered for Ultimate's base roster, as well as FP1, which may have been decided many months before release, as well as revisiting abandoned ideas, and completing content. I will go over the entire FP2.

Min-Min: Considered by Sakurai to have released too late into Ultimate's development to be considered in the project plan. Spring Man was released as an Assist Trophy alongside a few ARMS spirits before Min-Min's arrival. Destroyed the Spirits rule.

Steve: Likely to have been negotiated alongside Banjo & Kazooie. Daniel Kaplan, co-founder of Mojang, confirmed that talks to include Steve in the game were happening over five years before his release, during the end of the Smash 4 era. Furthermore, hinted by an accurate leaker, (at the time, at least) Vergeben, around the time of Ultimate's release to be coming to the game.

Sephiroth: The most tinfoily as it's not based on any interviews or word from Sakurai, but clues in Ultimate. Final Fantasy did not gain any sort of content in the jump from 4 to Ultimate, disappointing many. No new spirits, (Not even a unique fighter spirit for Cloud), no new music, no items, nothing. All fixed with the inclusion of Sephiroth, almost as if this piece of the puzzle was held off from the start. Sephiroth was likely negotiated alongside Dragon Quest's Hero, and thus becoming a part of the "Seven Squares" character circle which circulated in leaks from Vergeben, (Including Sora, Crono, Sephiroth, Geno, Erdrick, Luminary, and Slime.) all the way back in the months around Ultimate's release.

Pyra & Mythra: In the same boat as Min-Min. Sakurai is a big fan of Xenoblade 2 and lamented not being able to include Rex as a character, as Xenoblade 2 just barely missed the bus for the project plan. Rex got a mii as compensation alongside 3 music tracks from XC2 and Spirits. Outside of that, Xenoblade felt a bit lacking, which was later corrected with the inclusion of the girls. Desecrated the corpse of the Spirits rule. Stabbed the series miis deconfim rule in the chest but nobody counted it since the Rex Mii was technically base game.

Kazuya: And finally, our newest addition. Like Steve, Kazuya's precedent dates back to the Smash 4 era. Heihachi, who was considered as a playable character by Sakurai, was deemed unfeasible as he was not confident in translating the feel of Tekken's gameplay into Smash at the time. Compensated by adding Heihachi as a costume in 4, and bringing it back in Ultimate with Min-Min's mii wave. Times change and Sakurai returned to the concept and brought us Heihachi's son instead. Took the series miis deconfirm rule's corpse and dropped it into an active volcano before laughing, since Heihachi's mii costume was added in this very fighter pass.

What this means for Rayman?
Accounting for the pattern we are working with here, it is safe to assume that whoever Fighter #11 is was set in stone around the time Ultimate released, and not in the year afterward. It is possible for many characters to fit this bill, but Rayman specifically checks so many boxes:
  • Possibly talked about since around 2013/2014 when Rayman Legends released and Nintendo was interested in publishing the series. Strange comment by Ancel regarding if Rayman could beat Mario.
  • Rayman's content DECREASED from Smash 4 to Ultimate, going from 3 trophies to a single spirit. Spirits take far less effort to put out, so this decision is strange. Could be saving spirits for a completely unique Spirit Board in the future.
  • Ubisoft's Mii Costumes added during Byleth's wave but EXCLUDING Rayman. Miis are seen as consolation prices for the more highly requested characters who couldn't make the cut at the time, so why did they opt for the least popular Ubisoft characters (at least within the Smash circle) for costumes when you could have pulled the band-aid on Rayman right there. Now with Kazuya's inclusion, fuel is added to the fire because it cements that costumes will not deconfirm characters who are to come as long as it's not THE character.
  • After Ultimate released, Ubisoft became very silent about Rayman in Smash, when before they were not afraid to be vocal to their fans about it. This includes removing a certain quote from their Siri-like bot in response to Smash, as well as a survey question regarding purchasing Smash DLC.
This coupled with Ubisoft and Nintendo's relationship getting stronger by the day, as well as Ubisoft being Nintendo's most successful third-party developer, all leads me to think that Rayman still has a strong chance at being Smash's final fighter. The competition may be rough, but what is speculation without a little hope?
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Here’s an illustration from this…

Arms
8AAF6282-0BB4-4002-A390-970E61571BBC.jpeg

Because of the Late Development of implementing Full Arms Content there was not enough time to get Music, Stage, Fighter, and additional Spirits. Rather instead it’s a Spring Man Assist Trophy, 2-Mii Costumes and 5-Spirits, than when Min Min became the First Spirit Upgraded Fighter in Volume 2 DLC she brought in with Spring Stadium, Arms Music, additional Arms Spirits and a Ninjara Mii Costume. Along with confirmation that the Arms Director requesting Min Min being the playable character of Arms, signifying that The 1st and 3rd-party Developer’s and Company’s who campaigned for a Spot.

Minecraft
0AF7E5E4-0D73-4DEE-9BC7-1622F5AA992F.jpeg

Microsoft and Nintendo have built up their unprecedented relationship with Nintendo Exclusive content as the build up led to 2-DLC Packs in Super Smash Bros Ultimate in Banjo-Kazooie and Minecraft, thus which both have been in 5-Year Development dating back to 2014. With the release of Banjo-Kazooie Pack in Volume 1 than Minecraft Pack in Volume 2. With support from Phil Spencer of Microsoft we got 2-Xbox based characters in a Nintendo Exclusive

Final Fantasy 7
6B5C5841-16D0-41C9-8078-C82F08FEBA09.jpeg

When Cloud arrived in Super Smash Bros 4 it was in a Small portion that have not been satisfying representation for its Fans, and when Ultimate came it remained unchanged for the FF7 Representation Fans were hoping for as the 2-Songs returned along with Midgar along with No Original Artwork Fighter Spirit for Cloud. We get to Volume 1 DLC with Dragon Quest Content of Akira Toriyama fame aswell as Square Enix involvement with the DLC Development confirmed, than Final Fantasy 7 fans finally got the Proper Representation of Content with the Sephiroth Pack as it came with a New FF7 Stage, 9-Additional Songs (which we would later find out was them getting past Copyright Regulations from All Party’s to acquire these Songs for 4-Years), Final Fantasy 7 Spirits finally getting added, 4-FF7 Mii Costumes, and Cloud Updated in his Advent Children skin to include a NEW Final Smash from his Advent Children fight.

Xenoblade Chronicles 2
7710E74B-528E-4B60-A52C-BCFB2D3CD311.jpeg

Xenoblade Chronicles coming to Super Smash Bros 4 with Shulk was the beginning of the whole representation of that Game, we jump 4-Years Later with Ultimate and 2-New Entry’s of Xenoblade Chronicles Game’s with only one having an incomplete and Unfinished amount of Content in Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Because of the late development of XB2 it only had 3-Xenoblade 2 Songs and 8-Spirits in release, with the Release of Fighters Pass Volume 1 DLC came with a Rex Mii Costume. 2-Years later in Volume 2 we finally got an Updated Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Pack with Pyra/Mythra, Xenoblade 2 Stage, 13-Additional Music Tracks and 6-New Xenoblade 2 Spirits including an Upgraded Rex Spirit embedded in with the Base Game Rex Spirit. Thus Completing the Xenoblade Chronicles 2 representation

Tekken
CAB48290-C626-44A3-BF36-ADA8879A996C.jpeg

Sakurai has stated in the Past that Tekken’s Control Gameplay is very Complex to integrate for Smash Bros 4 which left out Heihachi as a possible Playable Character, as a result Sakurai instead opted to make a Heihachi Mii Costume for DLC and leaving out any possibility’s for Tekken Content. Fast forward to Super Smash Bros Ultimate Release the only Nod Tekken ever got was PAC-MAN’s Namco Roulette of the Galaga Sprite of Heihachi, which would once again leave Tekken out of the Running of Base Game content. At the Beginning of Volume 2 DLC the Smash Bros 4 Namco Mii Costumes returned starting with Heihachi Mii Costume with Min Min, than the Gil Mii Costume returned with Minecraft, At E3 2-Days ago we finally got a New Namco Rep in Tekken’s own Kazuya Mishima. This pattern of Unfinished Representation Content has been 100% consistent with every Volume 2 Release, I would even dare say that Byleth Pack would also be apart of this pattern of Missing Content of Fire Emblem series.

Which brings us to one other Unfinished Content.



Rayman
7F32682A-C659-481A-9A57-217DB845C4AF.jpeg

Rayman is by FAR the One IP from a Worldwide Triple AAA Western Gaming Distribution Company that has been Demanded by Ubisoft and Everyone to be Added into Super Smash Bros all the way back to the Smash Bros 4 yet has Not been fully Represented properly, for Sakurai to persistently Shine Rayman in both Super Smash Bros 4 and Ultimate as both a Trophy and an Image (aka/ Spirit) is a more clearer example of Sakurai trying to compose the book of Representations in Ultimate. When the Ubisoft Mii Costumes were added with Byleth the Writing is now on the Wall that Ubisoft has an involvement with the Smash Bros Ultimate DLC Development, thus became the Start of what would be called The Loose End Theory
 
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