Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[Inferno7]

Ayumi: idk, she's kind of a sleeper due to 2nd chance theory and such but I feel like her time has passed. If she was picked, it's most likely it would've been to promote her game, which has already launched.

I give her a very, very generous 5%, because:
-Fits 2nd chance theory
-Easy to get due to being 1st party
-Could help promote a game

Cons:
-Same problem as Euden, way too niche and obscure to the point she'd have little to no appeal (before anyone brings up FE, both Fates and 3H sold well)
-No offense to her fans but she's just overall a very unhype pick to the average person
-Lack of moveset potential (I know this isn't regularly an issue but GL at coming up with an original moveset for her that is also fun to play)
-Spirit in base game (although this doesn't really count it's something to keep in mind), not to mention it barely has 2 stars while Min Min and Pythra had 3 to 4 each
-Little recognition in Smash itself makes me think the series isn't a priority
-If we're going by the promotion route then has competence with Luigi's Mansion 3 and Advance Wars
-Very generic design and character concept, while it looks like Sakurai and co. are aiming for characters who could have appeal outside of just belonging to a series (each of them having unique/appealing mechanics, playstyles and designs)

I just can't see Nintendo picking her as the last character after whole months of hype, say what you want about ''last character is always bad''. yeah they just showed Min Min as the very first pick so I don't think history will repeat itself (also Sm4sh exists). If they wanted to sell the pass. they would be smart enough to save Min Min for last.
''b-but they don't care about fans'' -> Banjo exists

As for the others, I can't see them happening when they had spirit events mid-pass, not to mention Sakurai mentioned technical difficulties regarding Rex and the Aegis so Astral Chain in particular is more than done for. All things considered 0% for each.

Want: 0%, maybe 1.2% for Astral Chain since they have cool designs but I haven't played the game and I just don't care enough about these characters, nor are they of my taste. Just to clarify, I'm sorry if anyone got offended by my post but I'll be completely honest about my opinions regarding these characters.

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

Ayumi
Chance: 5%
Want: 0%

Unfortunately I'm an uncultured European who knows very little of the Famicom, so if it weren't for Smash speculation, this person would be a literal-who. However, I've done some research into it and I can see the appeal for requests. That being said, it's japan exclusivity has to knock it out of contention for now. I think the recent remakes that have been localised don't come in time to justify a promotion for them. I mean they could, but I don't see it happening. Do they have a future? I guess there's nothing saying Nintendo can't put their Japan-only properties in Smash, but it just seems like a bad decision. I have known every character on the pass so far, even if i've not played them personally.
Non-0 chance but I just don't see it happening, especially over way more iconic Phoenix Wright. Though being first party does help.

Akira Howard
Chance: 1%
Want: 5%

Two things going against them is the spirit event and the puppet archetype. While DLC spirit events aren't an outright deconfirmation, I still hold the opinion that seeing one after the further DLC announcement does make it seem like they're not getting a DLC pack with their own spirits all over again. We know base spirits can re-appear but the more recent ones don't make as much sense, unless they can get away with adding different ones.
The second thing has been mentioned by others, but Sakurai has explicitly said that getting Rex and Pyra working together was a technical limitation. So unless they use the puppet by itself I don't know how they pull it off. Maybe they'll think of something for the next title.

Ring Fit
Chance: 1%
Want: 15%

I actually picked Ring Fit Adventure up recently and it's really good. I can see how they could incorporate Ring and the exercises into the moveset pretty well. However, we hit a spirit event again. This time all 3 main characters are included and there's really no one else worth adding. It's weird to be gatekeeping a character like this for something as small as spirits, but I think it does suggest that they've been ruled out of this cycle. Could I see them in a base roster to replace Wii Fit? Absolutely.

---
Looking ahead, does Zelda Newcomer mean it has to be a newer generation character i.e. BotW games? Or do the ones currently still Assist Trophies count?

 

[fogbadge]

I’d like to remind everyone that the problem with Rex and co was they were on screen together all the time. Joker proves that if they’re not both on screen full time then it’s fine. There’s nothing that suggests with Howard they’d both have to be on screen on the same time. Please remember that before writing them off

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Ayumi Tachibana

Chance: 35%

With a fresh new remake recently released, Ayumi's chances have gone up considerably, as well as the fact that she was cut before and cut content seems to be a running theme of this pass. Another big factor in her favor is the fact that she finally has an official international release with the remake, which is one of the reasons she wasn't chosen before.


Want: 100%

Famicom Detective Club is a great series of games and her genre of games in particular would be unique on the roster. I would be more than happy to see her on the roster and think she could have an interesting and unique moveset.

Ring Fit Trainee

Chance: 5%

Unfortunately the Spirit Event seems to have hurt their chances. Depending on how far off the next game is, they could be front runners considering how well Ring Fit has done, but for Ultimate, they likely missed the train.

Want: 100%

Which is a shame, since Ring Fit is an excellent game. I would be perfectly happy to see Ring Fit Trainer join Wii Fit Trainer as another exercise rep, yet she could still have a distinct moveset with all the fun mechanics introduced in their game.

Officer Howard

Chance: 5%

Same as with Ring Fit, the spirit event hurt their chances pretty severely. Like Ring Fit, perhaps they'd have a chance for the next game, but for Ultimate, they're pretty unlikely.

Want: 100%

Astral Chain is yet again another new Nintendo IP that hit it out of the park, with the game being incredibly enjoyable. I think Officer Howard would be a great addition to Smash as another new generation Nintendo All Star.

 

[Sari]

Looking ahead, does Zelda Newcomer mean it has to be a newer generation character i.e. BotW games? Or do the ones currently still Assist Trophies count?

It can be any Zelda character, whether it be a BotW character or someone from an older game.

I’d like to remind everyone that the problem with Rex and co was they were on screen together all the time. Joker proves that if they’re not both on screen full time then it’s fine. There’s nothing that suggests with Howard they’d both have to be on screen on the same time. Please remember that before writing them off

Arsene is more of an aesthetic if anything (appears behind Joker at all times and has no AI of its own) so it's really not the same thing as say Ice Climbers, Rex/Pyra, or Howard/Legion.

 

[fogbadge]

It can be any Zelda character, whether it be a BotW character or someone from an older game.


Arsene is more of an aesthetic if anything (appears behind Joker at all times and has no AI of its own) so it's really not the same thing as say Ice Climbers, Rex/Pyra, or Howard/Legion.

sakurai said the problem was with the complex character designs. Joker and arsene are just as complex as Rex and co. I don’t think he said anything about AI

 

[Idon]

Ayumi hasn't had a Spirit Event yet, though. She's a base game Spirit (albeit not the most likely one).

Oooooooooh oh yeah.

Y'know what... I kinda forgot the old version of the game existed.

In which case... I am gonna bump that 0% to a big fat 10%

Arsene is more of an aesthetic if anything (appears behind Joker at all times and has no AI of its own) so it's really not the same thing as say Ice Climbers, Rex/Pyra, or Howard/Legion.

It is if they make Legion aesthetic too.

 

[Treked]

-Lack of moveset potential (I know this isn't regularly an issue but GL at coming up with an original moveset for her that is also fun to play)

Not agreeing with this, I think coming up with a moveset for its genre type of game can get pretty creative just like Phoenix Wright is in Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3. And especially now when they are at their most whacky at adapting from source material.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I’d like to remind everyone that the problem with Rex and co was they were on screen together all the time. Joker proves that if they’re not both on screen full time then it’s fine. There’s nothing that suggests with Howard they’d both have to be on screen on the same time. Please remember that before writing them off

Of course the Legion and Howard would have to be on-screen all the time, did you not play Astral Chain? Even if they give the Legion a cooldown mechanic it would be nothing like Arsene, Legions actually fight so they'd have their own hitboxes and likely move independently of Howard.

 

[Sari]

sakurai said the problem was with the complex character designs. Joker and arsene are just as complex as Rex and co. I don’t think he said anything about AI

He said that they had to make a lot of sacrifices to have things like an 8 player Smash Ice Climber battle be possible, since there would technically be 16 fighters. Arsene isn't a fighter: it floats behind Joker and acts as an aesthetic to boost some of his attacks.

Sakurai didn't flat-out say the word "AI," but it's pretty clear that based on Arsene just chilling with Joker while Nana has her own individual AI, the two character archetypes are completely different in terms of technical issues.

It is if they make Legion aesthetic too.

It can technically happen (as much as I would hate that), though we've seen with Rex (and Heihachi in SSB4 to an extent) that Sakurai can just opt to not add a character if he can't get them to properly work or be faithful to their game. That's why both me and a lot of other people giving Howard low chance scores don't really see the aesthetic option as a possibility.

 

[Idon]

Of course the Legion and Howard would have to be on-screen all the time, did you not play Astral Chain? Even if they give the Legion a cooldown mechanic it would be nothing like Arsene, Legions actually fight so they'd have their own hitboxes and likely move independently of Howard.

It can technically happen (as much as I would hate that), though we've seen with Rex (and Heihachi in SSB4 to an extent) that Sakurai can just opt to not add a character if he can't get them to properly work or be faithful to their game. That's why both me and a lot of other people giving Howard low chance scores don't really see the aesthetic option as a possibility.

Personas fight as well, move independently, and can be attacked, at least in official canon and spinoffs. A bit difficult to show that in a turn based game but that is how they work.
Joker in Smash takes many creative liberties (as does most other 3rd party characters), and so could Astral Chain, was Sakurai and/or Nintendo so inclined.

If Legion functions as a more "active" combatant version of Arsene, perhaps doing more attacks like Joker + Arsene up air, down air, and neutral air, instead of just making hitboxes larger... well I'd be more than happy with that.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Personas fight as well, move independently, and can be attacked, at least in official canon and spinoffs. A bit difficult to show that in a turn based game but that is how they work.
Joker in Smash takes many creative liberties (as does most other 3rd party characters), and so could Astral Chain, was Sakurai and/or Nintendo so inclined.

If Legion functions as a more "active" combatant version of Arsene, perhaps doing more attacks like Joker + Arsene up air, down air, and neutral air, instead of just making hitboxes larger... well I'd be more than happy with that.

In combat the Persona and its user fight as one, it's not like in Shin Megami Tensei where they're separate party members. Granted Joker's implementation is full of aspects that are unfaithful to his source material but I don't feel that having him do all the attacks with Arsene just following him is one of them.

With Astral Chain I don't see how it would make sense to have a Legion do anything less than attack on its own, it'd be weird to represent it only through sync attacks when they're such a small part of their arsenal. And what you describe sounds like it'd run into tech issues anyway, given what we know...

 

[Idon]

In combat the Persona and its user fight as one, it's not like in Shin Megami Tensei where they're separate party members. Granted Joker's implementation is full of aspects that are unfaithful to his source material but I don't feel that having him do all the attacks with Arsene just following him is one of them.

With Astral Chain I don't see how it would make sense to have a Legion do anything less than attack on its own, it'd be weird to represent it only through sync attacks when they're such a small part of their arsenal. And what you describe sounds like it'd run into tech issues anyway, given what we know...

In Persona's depictions where it isn't a turn-based RPG, Personas can be sent out to attack on their own and by extension get hurt on their own, to the point of being destroyed. You can see this in the fighting games, the anime(p5 spoilers), and the movies.
If anything, Smash's Arsene more akin to Devil May Cry 4 Nero's Devil Trigger which extends and amplifies his moves rather than function as its own being.

As for the legion, it's actually the complete opposite of what you said:
Sync attacks actually make up the VAST majority of their moves. The rest of their attacks are their legion-specific special abilities, unlockable command skills, and unlockable special skills, all of which are activated at the player's discretion.

In fact, legions only attack alone in the specific condition where they're left completely alone by the player next to enemies (chain piloting them breaks the auto-attack), and when they do attack alone via the AI, their attacks are simple and shallow, sword legion for example has a 3 hit combo and a spin, that's it, which is a fraction of a fraction of sword legion's moveset.
Considering the potential death of your legion which will heavily disadvantage you, and how your own attacks heavily relying on syncs, you're going to be using this at most to stall time for a short while and naturally going to have the legion tied to the hip.

Having Legion act as a mix of Arsene but with more attacks where he's sent out is completely fine in my book because Joker's Arsene already doesn't function like a Persona, AND we've already gotten major canonical break-aways which I can spend all day listing out, especially when it comes to concessions and honestly the legion not taking damage is a concession I'd gladly make.

 

[Treked]

In Persona's depictions where it isn't a turn-based RPG, Personas can be sent out to attack on their own and by extension get hurt on their own, to the point of being destroyed. You can see this in the fighting games, the anime(p5 spoilers), and the movies.
If anything, Smash's Arsene more akin to Devil May Cry 4 Nero's Devil Trigger which extends and amplifies his moves rather than function as its own being.

Curious in the Persona 4 fighting games and BBTAG the Persona users are kinda puppet characters not in a major way and some more than others but for example if only the Persona recieves a hit it damages the user a little making the Persona disappear though not causing flinch to the Persona user and they can't be K.O. ed by only the Persona taking damage.

 

[fogbadge]

Of course the Legion and Howard would have to be on-screen all the time, did you not play Astral Chain? Even if they give the Legion a cooldown mechanic it would be nothing like Arsene, Legions actually fight so they'd have their own hitboxes and likely move independently of Howard.

thats based on the colossal assumption that sakurai would strive to make them play as they do in AC which is not something we should expect. also if we were expecting them to be faithful to AC then the legions would have no hitboxes as they do not take damage in AC. the whole thing is based on an assumption of how they would play and as ive maintained many times before we should not assume anything of sakurai

He said that they had to make a lot of sacrifices to have things like an 8 player Smash Ice Climber battle be possible, since there would technically be 16 fighters. Arsene isn't a fighter: it floats behind Joker and acts as an aesthetic to boost some of his attacks.

Sakurai didn't flat-out say the word "AI," but it's pretty clear that based on Arsene just chilling with Joker while Nana has her own individual AI, the two character archetypes are completely different in terms of technical issues.

and can we assume that howard would be the same as either archetype? or would they be different enough to create their own problems

It can technically happen (as much as I would hate that), though we've seen with Rex (and Heihachi in SSB4 to an extent) that Sakurai can just opt to not add a character if he can't get them to properly work or be faithful to their game. That's why both me and a lot of other people giving Howard low chance scores don't really see the aesthetic option as a possibility.

you mean leave them out in favour of a character hes in love with

 

[Cutie Gwen]

you mean leave them out in favour of a character hes in love with

Sakurai has outright said he wanted Heihachi and Rex multiple times, citing moveset issues and visual flair as the reasons the former was shut down with tech reasons with the latter, something that scrapped Ice Climbers last time with Sakurai likely wanting to make an action game character very accurate, which leads into issues like they did with Rex. Projecting on to Sakurai isn't a good look dude

 

[fogbadge]

Sakurai has outright said he wanted Heihachi and Rex multiple times, citing moveset issues and visual flair as the reasons the former was shut down with tech reasons with the latter, something that scrapped Ice Climbers last time with Sakurai likely wanting to make an action game character very accurate, which leads into issues like they did with Rex. Projecting on to Sakurai isn't a good look dude

and making accusations of other users during a debate is an even worse. im going by what sakurai said: he couldnt include rex and pyra on screen at the same time so switched to pyra on her own with out a single explanation for why rex couldnt work on his own. the only explanations we got came from the fans. thats not projecting thats what happened

 

[Cutie Gwen]

and making accusations of other users during a debate is an even worse. im going by what sakurai said: he couldnt include rex and pyra on screen at the same time so switched to pyra on her own with out a single explanation for why rex couldnt work on his own. the only explanations we got came from the fans. thats not projecting thats what happened

Rex fights alongside the Blades. If the game can't handle Rex and the Blades, then it wouldn't be accurate as the Blades are too important and are literally what Rex fights with. There's your explanation. Happy now or will you keep accusing an XB2 fan of being unfair to your stale bread fav?

 

[fogbadge]

Rex fights alongside the Blades. If the game can't handle Rex and the Blades, then it wouldn't be accurate as the Blades are too important and are literally what Rex fights with. There's your explanation. Happy now or will you keep accusing an XB2 fan of being unfair to your stale bread fav?

the only one flinging accusations around is you. The argument “cause that how he works in his own game” doesn’t hold water in regards to smash. First of all pyra and mythra do not play true to the game anymore than a solo Rex with an off screen helper. Second half the roster don’t play true to their games, no ducks rode on the dogs back in duck hunt, Incineroar can’t summon wrestling rings out of thin air nor can he perform a Z-move on his lonesome, inklings do not have multiple weapons at the same time, olimar can’t pluck pikmin out of anywhere, Samus doesn’t have infinite missiles, none of the links have infinite arrows, piranha plants suddenly have the power of other plants, sonic can’t pull spring pads out of thin air neither can B&K do the same with spring jump pads.

saying Rex has to have blades is no different than saying pyra/mythra have to have a driver. Also you’re just proving my point about the only explanations came from the fans. Sakurai never once said that and you have no proof that he did.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

the only one flinging accusations around is you. The argument “cause that how he works in his own game” doesn’t hold water in regards to smash. First of all pyra and mythra do not play true to the game anymore than a solo Rex with an off screen helper. Second half the roster don’t play true to their games, no ducks rode on the dogs back in duck hunt, Incineroar can’t summon wrestling rings out of thin air nor can he perform a Z-move on his lonesome, inklings do not have multiple weapons at the same time, olimar can’t pluck pikmin out of anywhere, Samus doesn’t have infinite missiles, none of the links have infinite arrows, piranha plants suddenly have the power of other plants, sonic can’t pull spring pads out of thin air neither can B&K do the same with spring jump pads.

saying Rex has to have blades is no different than saying pyra/mythra have to have a driver. Also you’re just proving my point about the only explanations came from the fans. Sakurai never once said that and you have no proof that he did.

You literally said this

you mean leave them out in favour of a character hes in love with

Is this not an accusation? Especially as the man literally said it's a tech issue that prevented Rex from working how he wanted and how he's shot down other characters for similar reasons? As for the last bit about how he didn't fully explain every minute detail, you don't need to be spoonfed to understand it as again, he made it clear it was a tech issue. It's not a stretch that the MASTER DRIVER of a game where the combat revolves around Blades would use Blades whereas Blades like Mythra, who is playable, have been depicted as capable of fighting without a Driver with her Smash incarnation literally having a move referencing where she does this. If you can't put 2 and 2 together that's on you man, not Sakurai.

 

[Perkilator]

In case he didn't make it loud and clear:

He did want to have Rex as the main playable charcater with the Blades fighting alongside him, but it was technical issues that forced him to go with just the Blades. Even getting 8 pairs of Ice Climbers is already pushing the Switch.

There, end of discussion. Now let's drop this.

 

[fogbadge]

You literally said this

Is this not an accusation?

an observation based on something hes admitted to doing in the past? see robin and inceneroar

Especially as the man literally said it's a tech issue that prevented Rex from working how he wanted and how he's shot down other characters for similar reasons? As for the last bit about how he didn't fully explain every minute detail, you don't need to be spoonfed to understand it as again, he made it clear it was a tech issue. It's not a stretch that the MASTER DRIVER of a game where the combat revolves around Blades would use Blades whereas Blades like Mythra, who is playable, have been depicted as capable of fighting without a Driver with her Smash incarnation literally having a move referencing where she does this. If you can't put 2 and 2 together that's on you man, not Sakurai.

tech issues were the reason they couldnt work as a duo. he said nothing about rex not working on his own and not anything about it not making any sense for rex to get off screen help from the blades. and if he abandoned the character because his initial idea for them didnt work then why did he consider having them in the background? and use the argument that mythra is shown fighting without a driver as a reason doesnt work as rex fights solo at the beginning of the game for even longer than mythra is shown doing so. also i cant help but notice you ignored my point about there already being loads of characters who dont play one to one in their own games while continuing to trumpet that rex has to.

sakurai did say tech reason were why solo rax could not work
you have not said why rex getting help from off screen couldnt
mythra can fight on her own, rex can fight on his own
all your reasoning for why rex couldnt work on his own is purely subjective and does not hold up to scrutiny
there is not only one way rex could play

but hey you dont care about any of that youd much rather imply that im an idiot to mkae yourself look good and if you’re doing that rather than come up with counter arguments then I’m done

 

[Cutie Gwen]

an observation based on something hes admitted to doing in the past? see robin and inceneroar



tech issues were the reason they couldnt work as a duo. he said nothing about rex not working on his own and not anything about it not making any sense for rex to get off screen help from the blades. and if he abandoned the character because his initial idea for them didnt work then why did he consider having them in the background? and use the argument that mythra is shown fighting without a driver as a reason doesnt work as rex fights solo at the beginning of the game for even longer than mythra is shown doing so. also i cant help but notice you ignored my point about there already being loads of characters who dont play one to one in their own games while continuing to trumpet that rex has to.

sakurai did say tech reason were why solo rax could not work
you have not said why rex getting help from off screen couldnt
mythra can fight on her own, rex can fight on his own
all your reasoning for why rex couldnt work on his own is purely subjective and does not hold up to scrutiny
there is not only one way rex could play

but hey you dont care about any of that youd much rather imply that im an idiot to mkae yourself look good

Show me where Sakurai said he was in love with Robin and Incineroar.

Woah almost like Rex fights with his Blades and is a Master Driver or something, like how Link doesn't fight with the gauntlets but rather the Master Sword. I ignored that point because it was irrelevant, the bond between Rex and his Blades is perhaps the biggest thing the game pushes, not Rex on his own. Dismissing these facts that are drawn to a logical conclusion is in of itself subjective, so you're not objective at all.

I don't want to imply anything, you're just upset because tech issues are a thing and people considered the very real possibility that a game they may or may not like has tech issues holding a character they may or may not like out. End of. Keep this up if you want but don't expect me to entertain you any longer

 

[fogbadge]

Show me where Sakurai said he was in love with Robin and Incineroar.

Woah almost like Rex fights with his Blades and is a Master Driver or something, like how Link doesn't fight with the gauntlets but rather the Master Sword. I ignored that point because it was irrelevant, the bond between Rex and his Blades is perhaps the biggest thing the game pushes, not Rex on his own. Dismissing these facts that are drawn to a logical conclusion is in of itself subjective, so you're not objective at all.

I don't want to imply anything, you're just upset because tech issues are a thing and people considered the very real possibility that a game they may or may not like has tech issues holding a character they may or may not like out. End of. Keep this up if you want but don't expect me to entertain you any longer

I said I was done you cyber bully

 

[Megadoomer]

I said I was done you cyber bully

I'm not sure what was unclear about "let's drop this", but seriously, move on to a different topic, and don't misuse the term "cyberbully" (or claim that someone is one when all they did was disagree with you or point out flaws in, or evidence against, your claims).

 

[fogbadge]

I'm not sure what was unclear about "let's drop this", but seriously, move on to a different topic, and don't misuse the term "cyberbully" (or claim that someone is one when all they did was disagree with you or point out flaws in, or evidence against, your claims).

they were clearly calling me an idiot for not agreeing with them

 

[Sari]

they were clearly calling me an idiot for not agreeing with them

Gwen was only countering your points. She didn't call you an idiot and she even said in her last message that she wasn't implying anything.

Prolong this argument any further and you're getting kicked from the thread for good. You've been warned a ton of times for stuff like this, even outside of today.

 

[fogbadge]

Gwen was only countering your points. She didn't call you an idiot and she even said in her last message that she wasn't implying anything.

Prolong this argument any further and you're getting kicked from the thread for good.

in what world is telling someone they can’t put two and two together not calling them stupid?

 

[SneakyLink]

Alright we need to move on. If someone asks you to stop an argument, then you stop the argument.

Prolonging the argument only causes more problems.

While I’m here I’m gonna quickly rate the three characters in the title:
Ayumi:
Chance: 30%
While Ayumi appears as a spirit in base, she is helped by a remake of the series coming out on the Switch. That said, the remake came out after the pass has already been decided so did Nintendo have her on their radar?

Want: 60%
Given its genre, I’m sure the team could come up with a creative move set incorporating visual novel aspects.

Officer Howard
Chance: 0%
Not only did the character receive a spirit around the time Byleth (and by extension the second pass) was revealed, technical difficulties could put a damper on a creative moveset...

Want: 80%
...which is a shame as I throughly enjoy Astral Chain and think the officer could be fun.

Ring Fit Trainee
Chance: 5%
Spirits happening about a month after Byleth’s release dampers their chances, but I could see it as a promotional “holdover” so to speak.

Abstain on want as I never played Ring Fit Adventure.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Abstain on all three. I like all of them, but I'm working two jobs, and that wears me out.

Nominations: Concept: Danganronpa protagonist x5

 

[GoodGrief741]

In Persona's depictions where it isn't a turn-based RPG, Personas can be sent out to attack on their own and by extension get hurt on their own, to the point of being destroyed. You can see this in the fighting games, the anime(p5 spoilers), and the movies.
If anything, Smash's Arsene more akin to Devil May Cry 4 Nero's Devil Trigger which extends and amplifies his moves rather than function as its own being.

Don't see how spin-offs and adaptations would influence Smash more than the mainline games.

As for the legion, it's actually the complete opposite of what you said:
Sync attacks actually make up the VAST majority of their moves. The rest of their attacks are their legion-specific special abilities, unlockable command skills, and unlockable special skills, al

I phrased myself poorly. What I meant to say is that sync attacks are just one part of the Legion's arsenal and that making it a more aggressive Arsene wouldn't be very representative because it would ignore most of their other types of moves. Or at least, I'm not seeing how you could have that, and still be able to do stuff like Chain Binds and jumps, for example.

the whole thing is based on an assumption of how they would play and as ive maintained many times before we should not assume anything of sakurai

Fair enough.

 

[Jomosensual]

Abstain on all

Ori x all

 

[Idon]

Don't see how spin-offs and adaptations would influence Smash more than the mainline games.

Because they're more accurate depictions of what Persona combat is supposed to feel like.

Guess what, if we were to determine combat via mainline combat only, Persona users wouldn't exactly fight.
They have 2 attacks: hit someone with their weapon. Shoot gun.

The entire series revolves around just summoning personas to fight. It is their stats, their elemental proficiencies and weaknesses, and their abilities that consist the entire combat of the game. If you want to make that argument that Joker is more influenced by what TURN-BASED COMBAT is, then he is even more inaccurate considering Smash Joker half the time is working solo.

And even beyond that, you're nitpicking these things and avoiding the main point is that creative liberties are extremely common throughout smash.

What I meant to say is that sync attacks are just one part of the Legion's arsenal and that making it a more aggressive Arsene wouldn't be very representative because it would ignore most of their other types of moves. Or at least, I'm not seeing how you could have that, and still be able to do stuff like Chain Binds and jumps, for example.

Most of their other types of moves which I already mentioned in the links above.
They're all activated by the player, manually which could be accomplished with special followups.
Something like "send legion" as a side B with directional followups for stuff like upper slash or round sword.

Something like chain jump could very easily just be a special where the legion is sent out and then the player's animation is them being pulled forward. That doesn't require them to be able to be hit or be able to be interacted with more than Joker. Chain bind could simply work like auto-bind skill and just lasso characters in an AoE

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

Ayumi

Chance: 5%
Want: 80%
As much as I would like the final DLC character to be a 1st party rep I just can't see it happening. I have this terrible sinking feeling that we are going to get some shill 3rd party character and I hate it.

Officer Howard

Chance: 5%
Want: 100%
See above. Though with Astral Chain being new and a success maybe just maybe we get the Min Min treatment where Officer Howard gets added in post.

Ring Fit Trainee

Chance: 5%
Want: 80%
See above above and see above.

If we were discussing the roster of a future Super Smash Bros 6 I'd have much higher chance percentages, but since only 1 dlc spot remains I'm not optimistic

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Ayumi
Chance: 2%
Some people see her as a promotional pick because of the remaster but with how niche at beast the series is and the fact that we don't know if localizations were even planned at the time of the decision making process makes me not view her as a viable choice. It's outsourced as well so Nintendo doesn't seem to be sinking all their priorities into the revival. She just sounds like too risky of a choice, even if Ultimate is supposed to have a mild ending. Wright would make for a bigger VN rep and there are still some first-parties left that have her beat. I don't view her being considered for Melee 22 years making much of a difference.

Want: 1%
I know little about FDC and haven't picked up the remaster, perhaps later I will try it out. Still, I'd imagine it to be a fairly standard VN in my eyes. No offense to all the detectives out there but Ayumi strikes me as solid "next game" material but throwing her in now would feel a bit rushed. I don't think FDC has had enough time seeping into the gaming's sphere conscious if you ask me. I'd rather have somebody a bit more exciting as our final character since you wouldn't see me or many others jumping up and down for her inclusion.

Howard twins
Chance: 0%
I don't understand why were rating them cause that Spirit event seems like a pretty solid deconfirm to me. I get that it's been a while since and that you could maaaybe stretch the Heihachi costume thing into Spirit events not mattering anymore but I just believe they've been shafted for this game.

Want: 25%
I think their deconfirmation kinda demotivated me to play more Astral Chain and now it just sits in my huge backlog. Having them then turn out to be the final character anyway would kinda be a kick to the crotch for me in that sense. I still hope they'll be in the next game and I'll get back to the game eventually but for now I'm totally fine with them being deconfirmed.

Ring Fit
Chance: 0%
Again, they've had a Spirit event and that's a closed case in my eyes. I know how hugely succesfull the game has been, especially for a new IP, but if we couldn't get Inklings in Smash 4 I'd imagine they'd just save Ring Fit for next game as well.

Want: Abstaining

Zelda rep: 19.23%
King Boo: 11.86%
Gooigi: 5.32%
Bandana Dee x20

 

[GoodGrief741]

And even beyond that, you're nitpicking these things and avoiding the main point is that creative liberties are extremely common throughout smash.

Fair enough, I am operating under the assumption that they wouldn't butcher the character but you're right that they have in the past and will likely continue to do so in the future.

If you want to make that argument that Joker is more influenced by what TURN-BASED COMBAT is, then he is even more inaccurate considering Smash Joker half the time is working solo.

This we can definitely agree on. Why Joker doesn't have Arsene by his side all the time baffles me.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's been 36 hours since the last post, probably a sign we should get on

 

[Ridrool64]

I'm going to abstain fully and back a moveon.

Next game isn't a reboot x 5.

 

[Sari]

Day over.

Today is yet another Nintendo day, so rate the following characters:

• Concept: Zelda newcomer
  • Note: This can be any new Zelda character, whether it be from the BotW sequel or someone from an older game like Skull Kid or Midna.
• King Boo
• Gooigi

Predict Rayman, Sol Badguy, and Concept: Disgaea rep.

-----

Music for today:

Zelda Newcomer:

Spoiler: Zelda Music

King Boo & Gooigi

Spoiler: Luigi's Mansion Music

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The age old question: Whomst the ****eth would it be

Chance: 1% The biggest issue is a blatant one everyone here knows. Sakurai seems really ****ing hesitant to adding a non Triforce user which is likely because the Triforce trio at least guaranteed for most games unlike the popular one offs such as Skull Kid, Midna, Ghirahim, etc, so what's our next best option, a BotW2 character? Fat ****ing chance, the game has no release window or even a title as of E3 2021, that's too late to be added as DLC ends this year.

Want: 30% It's been 20 years since Melee gave us the last unique Zelda character so yeah, it'd be kind of overdue, the big question is who it'd be, which is too vague for me to give a higher score, but there are quite a few choices I've seen that would be cool so I don't think a zero or abstain is warranted, my preferences go to Skull Kid, Tingle, Midna and Ghirahim personally

Literally Boo?

Chance: 1% People seem to be more confident in King Boo lately and I cannot understand why as the reasons aren't really that much of a factor. This newfound popularity? Impossible unless Sakurai can see the future. Being another villain? That doesn't really matter as Ult gave us a large variety of villains with us even getting third party villains at this point. To rep Luigi's Mansion? This is the big one, but it also has the biggest counterargument, we already have Luigi's Mansion represented, the stage, the songs, Spirits and Luigi himself using the Poltergust for his grab. I'd argue that's better than most Mario spinoffs honestly and beyond Sakurai thinking "Haha this would be cool", something that applies to everything, I can't think of any reason why we'd get King Boo

Want: 0% I really don't care for King Boo at all, there are a handful of Mario characters I'd prefer, other supernatural characters I'd prefer and there are even spooky Mario characters I'd prefer, I'm also not a Luigi's Mansion fan meaning the biggest appeal doesn't really excite me much either, though my second point probably is my biggest one, vampiric abilities are pretty damn cool, ghosts can be cool as hell but I never really found Boos themselves to be interesting, so a big Boo with a crown and sharper teeth is pretty dull when compared to how other games handle this kind of stuff like CastleVania, SMT, Guilty Gear, etc. The appeal seems to be "Ooh more villains" just for the sake of more villians and I'd rather have cool villains if we arbitrarily added more tbh.

The inferior slime

Chance: 0% See the point above about Luigi's Mansion already being fairy repped but Gooigi in particular has another issue. Gooigi is for all intents and purposes, Luigi. I cannot see the DLC and as a result the entire game being sent off by "Character who is literally another version of a base game character". Sure, we had Lucas and Roy but those weren't newcomers but highly requested veterans, not brand spanking new characters.

Want: 0% Quite frankly I don't want alternative versions of existing characters as something I pay for as again, Gooigi is meant to be Luigi, as I said with King Boo I don't hold any attachment to Luigi's Mansion and my stance on newcomers is "If I'm not very familiar, are they at least cool?". I don't like the idea of Zelda 3, Link 4, Mario 3 and certainly not Luigi 2 as DLC when his model would likely be completely rehashed. For the base game, I wouldn't care much but I cannot stress enough how much of a letdown this would be.

Split noms between Junpei and Soma