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Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

shinhed-echi

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
5,636
Location
Ecuador - South America
NNID
punchtropics
3DS FC
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Byleth satisfaction:
15%

I knew it was coming at some point. Just didn’t expect it this soon.
I don’t care about reasons, 8 Fire Emblem characters is too many. There are IPs that don’t even have one.
The only redeeming factor is that (s)he at least has a cool moveset. I’m a sucker for those game mechanics that change your play style on the fly. Still, doesn’t mean this couldn’t have been given to Dante, or Monster Hunter, even though I don’t really care about either.

I literally went back to bed after the trailer right before Sakurai started geeking out about Fire Emblem. And I didn’t leave sooner because I hadn’t finished my breakfast yet.

DLC Wave 1 Rating: 6/10 (with PP)
Pass only: 7/10

Plant: 2/10
Joker 6/10
Hero 10/10
Banjo 7/10
Terry 9/10
Byleth 3/10
 
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Wunderwaft

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
3,459
Byleth satisfaction: 40%
It's no secret that Fire Emblem has an insane amount of content in Smash. I did want to see TH get something later down the line, I just didn't expect it to be this soon. As for the character choice itself, I'm not a big fan of Byleth but I can appreciate his moveset. Something still bothers me with how every Switch game got ignored while Fire Emblem takes priority over them once again. Imagine a scenario where Three Houses turned out to be a bad game, that would've completely sucked and we would be stuck with a character from a terrible game. So yeah, I'm not a fan with how Byleth got chosen but I do like the game he's from.


Fighters Pass satisfaction: 70%
Joker: 8/10
Hero: 6.5/10
Banjo: 7/10
Terry: 8/10
Byleth: 4/10

Not bad I guess, I never really got a DLC character that made me go OOMPH yet. In Smash 4 that was Cloud, in here that character has yet to come. Maybe it might come in FP2, maybe it might not, but either way this is my rating for the fighters pass.


Nomination: Waluigi x5
 

Strider_Bond00J

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
2,866
Location
la-lio~n~
Switch FC
SW-2525-8699-9095
Not that I care about playing this game any more in the current speculation era but I suppose I'll toss my points down:

Fighters Pass Satisfaction: 85%
5 Great and unique newcomers if you ask me and all of them bring something fun to the table. Only one of them is a bit of a slight miss but I still love how they're implemented.

Joker: 100%
My absolute dream-want for Smash Ultimate. I was so happy to finally get him in Smash thanks to how amazing Persona 5, but I wasn't so sure if Joker would make it since he didn't have much presence on Nintendo platforms. The fact that I didn't learn about Joker until at least 3-4 hours after the initial announcement honestly made me even more excited since it really kicked my hype up for the DLC to start off with one of my dream wants.
I love his play-style and the amount of style he brings to the table. Mementos also pleasantly surprised me since I thought it'd be a generic train-station stage but they actually based it off P5's stylish UI version and also went the extra mile to have some Persona 4 and 3 songs too. I would've liked at least another 5 songs - "Heartful Cry", "Life Will Change" "Best Friends" "Break out of..." and "Mist" but eh, the fact that Persona is in Smash Bros is incredible.

Hero: 60%
I like Dragon Quest a fair bit to welcome a Dragon Quest newcomer, but all the debate made me not super keen if it was just plain ol' Erdrick and he didn't exactly bring anything new to the table. Yet expectations were defied when it turns out to be not just Erdrick, but The Luminary, Solo and Eight! The Command Selection is pretty fun, but also at times Hero's balance is all over the place. Disappointingly is the fact that the scumbag Sugiyama ruined everything by including the Midis and only two songs for each Hero. It's better than Cloud's, but the music is lacklustre.

Banjo-Kazooie: 100%
YES. The bird and bear are finally back on Nintendo! Couldn't be any more happier with their inclusion. They're fun and simple with no super encompassing gimmick outside of the Wonderwing, and Spiral Mountain comes with a decent selection of music options. Though where is Gruntilda's Lair, BanjoLand or the Final Battle? Either way, it's a dream come true to finally see Banjo-Kazooie back for Smash Bros.

Terry: 100%
Terry wouldn't have been my first choice for an SNK character - would've preferred Nakoruru since she would've been fun to use alongside her hawk Mamahaha, but Terry was phenomenal. The amount of care and love shown for SNK and their history, Terry's moves translating well to Smash and also having something unique in a Backwards-Special move and the Super Special Moves. The King of Fighters Arena is easily my favourite stage of all the DLC thanks to it being styled like a classic fighting game and having 50 songs. Easily my surprise favourite of the DLC.

Byleth: Initially 30%
I loved Three Houses and it easily became one of my favourite Fire Emblem and game of 2019 - enough to actually want Byleth in Smash; on the condition that they had enough in their moveset to make them stand out amongst all the other Fire Emblem characters and maybe appear in a Fighters Pass 2.
Truth be told - the Corrin flashbacks happened immediately when I saw the reveal trailer and...
ai_this_has_become_difficult.png

The Corrin salt-flashbacks were painful since I was expecting the salt immediately since practically everyone was begging/expecting Dante or anyone else.
It is a double-edged sword since I wanted Byleth... BUT NOT THIS SOON!!!
THANKFULLY!!!!!
Byleth subverted expectations again and fulfilled one of my hopes for a new FE character - they wouldn't be just a sword user. And Byleth solved that dilemma - Edelgard's Axe, Claude's Bow and Dimitri's Lance. All the main FE Weapon Triangle weapons finally represented. Garreg Mach Monastery may be a bit of a plain stage - but it comes with a new bunch of FE songs in Fódlan Winds, Edge of Dawn and Apex of the World. ...We should've got God-Shattering Star though.

So ultimately I'm in the rare percentage of people satisfied by Byleth... to an extent. Would I have preferred someone else being Fighter 5? Hell yes, but honestly Byleth isn't some demon that ruined your life by their inclusion. There's still more after them, so look forward to that instead of ranting and hating them just because they're another Fire Emblem character.
Byleth satisfaction: 70%
 
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TechPowah

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
935
Location
The room down the hall
Switch FC
1951-3245-1423
Joker: 8/10

I memed all the time pre reveal about how Joker was absolutely gonna be in PS All-Stars, and only occasionally considered that he would be in Smash instead, so come to my complete surprise that he was for real the F I R S T revealed for the DLC, what a tone setter that was
Joker himself is pretty neat, he's fun to play every now and then for a match or two, Mementos is a neat stage even if i'd prefer the casino, and I appreciate having P3 and 4 flavored stage variants cause Time to Make History is my favorite Persona song, and the blue P3 Mementos is much easier on the eyes

Erdrick: 9/10

new main? new main!
only real reason that I still have Banjo as my main instead of Hero is that free accounts aren't allowed to set alts, that and Crash isn't in yet
great character choice, got the whole squad for the alt costumes and colors, Erdrick specifically is THE REALEST OG, he's probably the most fun i've had with any character in the game outside of Mac, Yggy is a cool and pretty stage even if I personally think it's too vanilla in terms of mechanics, midis are disappointing but i'm more used to them than the orchestrals so it's less of a problem for me

Banjo IS IN THIS GAME HOLY SMOKES HOW DID THIS HAPPEN OH MY GOD WHEW/10
it's Banjo
that's kind of it
but it's not, cause he's truthfully not my kind of character as he's got a harder preference towards projectiles and defensive play for a big bear with an invincible bum rush
BUT IT'S BANJO
IT'S B A N J O
also Spiral Mountain is a cool stage aesthetically but not terribly engaging, but the music is all top notch
special shoutouts to Treasure Trove Cove and Mad Monster Mansion, also Lord Woo Fak Fak making it is just icing <i still wish Windy and Co from Conker was also added but that's not really anything to change my mind on the pack as a whole and it was already a pipe dream song pick to begin with>

Terry: 9.5/10
First off, FIFTY SONGS, my boy
It's always a joy to see more characters from fellow fighting games since that's where I hang my hat, and Terry himself is easily my favorite character to play that i'm not necessarily looking to main, his attacks just FEEL nice and his 1v1 autocorrect isn't as strict and rigid as Ryu and Ken's are which is great as i'm not really a fan of that in the first place
the KOF stage is my favorite DLC stage to play so far, although outside of the wall crash gimmick, the layout being a straight flat surface is a let down
last off, FIFTY SONGS, my boy

Byleth, pre-release: 7/10
Having only played very little of Fire Emblem GBA and Fates, I have no particular attachment to FE outside of Smash, and I already have no interest in FE Treehouse, so Byleth themselves as a character is a resounding meh from me outside of their nifty design
HOWEVER, their moveset is very, VERY close to how I would have wanted a Monster Hunter, so almost purely off of gameplay alone i'm sold on them and i look forward to trying them out
I have no strong feelings one way or the other about the new songs, but Garreg Mach looks to be the most interesting and fun stage out of the pass so far thanks to being a tour, but the individual landmark arenas are still a little lacking, but I can forgive that somewhat as IMO this is the second most visually impressive of the DLC stages right now, after Yggy's Altar

OVERALL GRADE FOR SEASON 1: 9.5/10
 
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Troykv

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
3,990
Okay, I think I returned in a perfect time.

Joker: 80%

I lack familiarity with the character, but it surprised me how well it feels to use it, isn't exactly the most original moveset, having something similar to Limit Break, but it feels so great!

Hero: 82%

Not as dynamic as Joker, but quite versatile and fun to use, probably the perfect character to exploit in PvE, I love using him, it's probably my most used of the DLC Fighers because of that.

Also, this is one of these character that in hindsight it feels kind of weird people didn't considered seriously as a character before the Leaks; DQ is that big guys!

Banjo: 80%

I'm not a super fan of Banjo, and his moveset it's kind of simple, but this makes me thing two things.

1.- This character it's actually extremely easy to start to play, compared with Joker, Hero or Terry that have a lot higher skill caps.
2.- This simplicity it's actually quite beautiful, Banjo feels like he always belonged in Smash, he has the kind of moveset I would have expected from a Melee or Brawl Newcomer, and quite heartwarming to think about that.

Terry: 95%

Probably my favorite inclusion of the Figher Pass 1, I have problems using him because of lack of practice, but Terry is such a blast! I feel so thrilled when I was seeing how Sakurai decided to include every single one of his iconic moves (Power Wave, Burning Knucle, Crack Shoot, Rising Tackle and Power Dunk), and giving him a mechanic for using desperation moves was so perfect!

I'm may not look like it, but I actually growth with SNK Games, so I was actually excited for the idea of a SNK character to appear in Smash; I didn't though it was possible, but it was indeed.

Byleth: 70%

Byleth is such a weird character for me to rate; I'm not exactly thrilled by it's inclusion, but the trailer itself it made me laugh all the way since the Sword and Man joke. The moveset looks cool, I need to prove it to make sure how unique it feels compared with using other swordies, but the F-Air/B-Air and giving them a pseudo Warlock Punch it will make playing with them very fun xD

Also, I love seeing my second girl Edelgard in the game, and well, many of the music choices they gave are connected to her.

So...

The overall rating it's


OKAY!




Actually 81.4%


Terry carried the Season Pass for me, but I'm satisfied overall with the choices made.
 
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TCT~Phantom

Smash Master
Writing Team
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Dec 10, 2013
Messages
3,965
NNID
TCT~Phantom
Expect a schedule soon, Phoenix Lloyd Vault Boy and 2B will be included in it.

Claude would have been folded in but ya know.
 
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Extremmefan

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 22, 2015
Messages
419
NNID
Extremmefan
3DS FC
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Oh I thought this'd be done by now but looks like I can still join in.

Joker: 7/10
- Don't really mind him and he's kinda fun to play imo, but I honestly kinda grew tired of hearing Persona 5 praise nonstop left and right upon his reveal (though I'm not saying the game's not good, it just the constant talk of it exhausted me). Arsene kinda busted against bosses though, but that's what makes it fun to use I guess.

Hero: 8.5/10
- THE casual character and I honestly love him for that alone. Granted I also had a bit of knowledge of DQ, but his inclusion made my sister really happy and showing it to her and seeing her reaction was heartwarming to me.
Well, that, and matches with both stage hazards, high amounts of items, and several Heroes get so chaotic it's hilarious lol.

Banjo: 7.5/10
- When I saw their announcement I knew it would make someone I knew online happy, but that's about it as far as I'm concerned. Though I place him slightly higher than Joker because he brought the moveset standard back to Melee's/Brawl's, which really took me back to discovering these gimmickless characters back then (since I started with Brawl and also looked back afterwards to see what Melee had that I may've missed).

Terry: 9/10
- Like Hero, Terry felt extremely fun to use imo, but ontop of that, while I already knew a bit of SNK stuff, Terry's inclusion made me want to check out more of the fighting games's lore, something I haven't felt ever since I discovered every Nintendo franchise (plus Metal Gear and Sonic) that Brawl had. Needless to say the amount of content did not disappoint either, between a really fun character (though I still suck at inputs in Smash lol), a stage that's just outright perfect for Stamina mode, and the boat load of songs, to me it was easily the best pack of all five, and I'm not sure any next one could top that.
(though I'd have loved to see Fairy on the music list, or Chizuru as a cameo on the stage, but can't have everything I guess)

Byleth (pre-release): 6/10
- Keeping up with the leak and speculation scenes kinda made me expect it…? It felt like a well-kept secret, and second-parties like FE tend to be kept secret that well when it comes to Smash DLC. Though I will not judge too harshly because I don't really mind FE3H getting a rep, because after seeing how it made such a positive impact on most of the FE community, I know what I'm saying when I say that they rep a game that deserved it, even if it means feeling like a "late" advertisement (comparable to Incineroar and possibly Greninja, though neither were DLC so it's hard to really say).


Overall positive opinion, can say I expected worse going in and was pleasantly surprised instead.
Hoping the next pass is around as good too, though I'll probably just get it blindly this time (Guardian costume looking mighty cool).

Final rating: 7.6/10
 

Jomosensual

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
2,014
And another one's gone and another ones gone


Haven't found an english version yet but feels like another death by spirit board
 

chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
8,271
And another one's gone and another ones gone


Haven't found an english version yet but feels like another death by spirit board
We just started Season 2 speculation! Why are they already killing characters!?! At least Ragna has less competition, though (no offense, but I've never played a Kunio game).
 

GuiltyGyarados

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jan 17, 2020
Messages
110
Joker: 8/10 - An undeniably cool pick, but there's a limit to how excited I can be over characters from series that I don't personally like or care about.
Hero: 5/10 - Don't care at all, but I'm not opposed to Dragon Quest representation in Smash. I ****ing abhor how they designed him gameplay-wise.
Banjo: 8/10 - Like Joker, he does nothing for me personally, but I'm very happy for those who've been begging over a decade for him.
Terry: 6/10 - He's welcome aboard, but I'd be lying if I said I found him all that interesting or exciting, even as a fan of traditional fighting games.
Byleth: 0/10 - My feelings on Byleth have been well-documented here. Beyond disappointing. Basically spits in the face of everyone who isn't an FE fan.

Overall grade for this pass: D-

It was going okay, but Byleth reaaaaaally dragged it down into the dumps for me. What a ****ing travesty.
 
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GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Food for thought:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/21/doom...ew-chess-arcade-shooter-12095644/?ito=cbshare

This interview concerning Doom Eternal mentions Smash:
For reference I’ve included the relevant bit:

GC: What about the rumours of Doom Slayer being in Smash Bros.? [This was a couple of days before the Byleth announcement – GC] Do you think it could ever happen? MS: I don’t know. We’ve asked them. GC: You asked them? MS: Yeah. GC: Well, that’s how Solid Snake got in it. Would they discount it just because of the gore and violence though? MS: I dunno. You would honestly have to ask them. We’ve never been approached and said, ‘Hey can Doomguy be in Smash Bros.?’ But we’re open-minded if they wanna ask. But we hear it all the time [from fans]. Who would say no? [laughs] GC: But you did ask them? MS: We’ve had… I don’t even know who talked to who, but we’ve bantered with them. We have a great relationship with them through bringing Doom 2016 to Switch and that kind of stuff. So we have great people over there but it’s one of those things where it’s like, ‘Wouldn’t it be cool?’ But it’s never gone anywhere serious, so we’ll see.

With this, I think we have a potential deconfirm but I’ll let you all handle this one.

By the way I apologize if someone already posted this.
Aaand quoting this from the main newcomer thread. Barely started the season and characters are already dropping like flies.

Doomguy
10.89% Chance - 37.78% Want (first rating)
37.24% Chance - 55.59% Want (second rating)
10 noms
 

3DSNinja

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Messages
1,390
I don't think Doomguy is dead. Grant Kirhope implied BANJO wasn't dlc, and he composed a track for the gams.
 

StormC

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
8,178
Assuming we're still rating the whole Season Pass...

JOKER: 9/10. Wow, what an incredible reveal. After playing Persona 5, I was even more hyped for his eventual inclusion. Although his fighting style is a mixed bag - the whole Devil Trigger motif is incredibly bizarre and not anything like the Persona games - he's a fun enough character and his stage/music choices are incredible. Persona 5 is one of my favorite games and Joker is a great fit for Smash, so not too much to complain about here.

HERO: 6.5/10. Although I have no attachment to Dragon Quest as a series, I have immense respect for its legacy, and its inclusion in Smash is pretty much a no brainer. The four Heroes really helped keep the character fresh. I found his moveset incredibly unwieldy, sadly, and the less said about the music, the better. Lack of female alts was also disappointing. Still, a series that was long overdue for Smash, with a nice-looking stage to boot.

BANJO & KAZOOIE: 10/10. Pretty much preaching to the choir on this one, but this was a pipe dream wish that didn't seem possible at all until a year ago. My favorite Smash inclusion after K. Rool. Although the lack of Gruntilda's battle theme is a let down, everything else is perfect. Their moveset and animations, the song remixes, the stage with all of the cameos... if Banjo and Kazooie never appear in another video game again, what a sendoff. Wow.

TERRY: 6/10. While Terry was definitely not a character I considered until his inclusion, I do have respect for SNK's legacy, if not as much as Dragon Quest's. While Terry isn't the most exciting fighter for me, he is pretty fun, and 50 songs is nothing to sneeze at. This was definitely a passion project for Sakurai, and it shows. Unlike Dragon Quest, I'm unlikely to take a deep dive into SNK fighting games outside of the ones I've already played, so this does less for me overall.

BYLETH: 3/10. This was possibly the only end result for the Fighters Pass I would consider disappointing, not just because it's another Fire Emblem character, but rather the circumstances of their inclusion; being added before their game was even out and received by the public feels cynical now with the perspective that characters like Spring-Man and Rex got screwed over for timing (and even if it was always going to be Byleth from 3 Houses, it's a very uninspired choice overall). I wouldn't feel this strongly about it if Byleth came out in the second Pass. The main positives are the stage looks pretty nice, and it's good to have a fully playable female character. Probably my least favorite character inclusion in Ultimate, I don't want to wallow in my own displeasure too much though. It is what it is.

FIGHTERS PASS: 7/10. I waited to buy it until after playing Persona 5 to get a taste of Joker, even though I bought all the Smash 4 DLC characters last time and probably would have done the same then. Joker was enough for me to go all in, and I'm glad I did. Him and B&K carry my hype for the pass on their own. I would have liked at least one more character to get excited about, but overall I think I came out of it alright. For season 2, I'd like at least 3 characters I like, but the pool is narrower now with Banjo in. I'll wait for the first reveal before buying like I did with Joker, out of principle if nothing else.
 
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DrifloonEmpire

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 2, 2019
Messages
2,219
He goes into way too much depth to be a Kirkhope situation. If he was under NDA he'd probably try to quickly end the topic to avoid accidentally saying anything.
 

3BitSaurus

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
4,298
Location
Nowhere (no, not the Islands)
Aaand quoting this from the main newcomer thread. Barely started the season and characters are already dropping like flies.

Doomguy
10.89% Chance - 37.78% Want (first rating)
37.24% Chance - 55.59% Want (second rating)
10 noms
Looked at it now... yeah, that's a killing blow imo. Way too much detail for an NDA and it reveals that Nintendo themselves never approached Bethesda about it, but rather it was the other way around. Sounds like a Ubisoft situation.
 

SilverSoul24

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
332
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St. Louis, MO
NNID
SilverSoul94
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SW-8066-4257-6220
Joker: 9/10. Persona 5 is easily my favorite RPG of the decade outside of Xenoblade, so I was absolutely ecstatic to see him join. I could gush for hours about how amazing this game is, but it wouldn't be doing it justice. Just play it, seriously. And what a reveal, man. Probably the most hype reveal in Smash history just because of the venue and how completely unexpected it was. An almost perfect way to start off the Fighters Pass. Not to mention that Joker himself is an excellent fighter and quickly became one of my mains. And getting Persona music in Smash is an absolute dream come true, of course. The only reasons why this isn't a perfect score are that I was kinda let down with Mementos as a stage, along with the servers crashing and burning on release day so I couldn't try him right away. Also, Persona 5 on Switch when? Seriously, Atlus, I'm begging you.

Hero: 7/10. So, I have basically zero personal attachment to Dragon Quest as a series. For as much of an RPG junkie I am, I can't play everything, and this is just one of those series that I never got around to. However, I've heard nothing but good things about the series, and I respect its legacy and what it's done for the genre. So, while I wasn't personally invested with seeing it represented in Smash, I find Hero a more than worthy addition, and I was really excited for his fans. What I wasn't excited about was how polarizing his reception within the community was at launch. I didn't think he was a broken character, and I think the venues that banned him were overreacting, but it was frustrating to see so much division over a character. Thankfully, things have calmed down since then, and Hero is still an incredibly fun character to play, and his stage and music are great. Plus, having skins of 4 different DQ protagonists was a great touch. He even got me to try the DQ 11 demo, and while my backlog is too stuffed right now, I do want to play it in full someday. Overall, a decent pick that I ended up liking more than I expected.

Banjo & Kazooie: 10/10. Twenty minutes after revealing a character I had no personal feelings for, they reveal one that is the definition of personal for me. Even though my first console was an NES I got as a hand-me-down from my older cousin, the first console I owned while it was commercially relevant was the N64. Banjo-Kazooie/Tooie were my two favorite platformers on a system known for them, and they were a huge part of my childhood. I'm sure you know the rest of the story. I had long since given up hope of ever seeing them in Smash after the Microsoft buyout, so seeing them join after so long was like reuniting with an old friend. I was actually tearing up at work watching this reveal, so it's pretty hard not to give a perfect score to a character who can elicit that kind of reaction. Of course, their stage and music inclusions were fantastic as well, so there's really nothing to complain about. I have seen some people complain that their moveset is a bit too simplistic, but that just makes me love them even more. Not only is it a serious breath of fresh air after increasingly-complex DLC fighters, but it really does make them feel like they've been a part of Smash since the days of 64/Melee. Everything about Banjo & Kazooie's inclusion is a labor of love to fans and is easily the highlight of the first FIghters Pass for me. Also, gotta love how after they overshadowed Hero's reveal, B&K were themselves overshadowed upon their release by Sans. More memes in Smash, please.

Terry: 8/10. Talk about a surprise in every sense of the word. While I'm not necessarily a fan of Terry as a character, I really enjoy his series. One of my best friends growing up was a Dreamcast fanatic, and I have some fond memories of playing the various SNK fighting games with him. SNK was long overdue for representation in Smash, and I'm ecstatic that we have another technically-demanding fighter. So while I was surprised to see him join, I was even more surprised at how much I enjoyed playing as him. At the end of the day, Smash is a fighting game so I'm always going to welcome another representative from the genre. He honestly feels like a better Ryu/Ken. His super specials are one of my favorite risk/reward mechanics in Smash, and they feel powerful and rewarding without being broken since they take serious practice to use properly. And I love how unique his stage is, breaking through the walls for a KO will never not be satisfying. Plus, 50 songs from SNK? Beyond generous and adds some serious value to this DLC. Overall, an unexpected but great pick.

Byleth: 6/10. Not what I meant when I asked for more memes in Smash. I'm trying to stay as neutral as possible on what is the most controversial Smash addition by far. I feel like people are less upset with Byleth as a character and more upset about the circumstances surrounding them. I am a casual Fire Emblem fan at best, having only played a handful of the games (Path of Radiance, Radiant Dawn, Awakening, Fates Conquest, and Echoes), but my best friend is an absolute fanatic about the series. Three Houses looks amazing, and again, I hope to play it soon once my backlog clears out a bit. But while the game appears worthy of representation in Smash, it's hard not to feel cynical that Nintendo chose to push a game that recently released and has DLC coming. This was especially painful for me, as Rex and Pyra from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 were my most-wanted newcomers for Ultimate, though they were ultimately passed over because their game was too recent. And yet Byleth was okay? I was definitely stung by that, and everyone hoping for a new third party rep was surely stung that we got another rep from a series that already had seven fighters. I really don't think Byleth was anyone's first choice for the fifth fighter, and even among the Three Houses fanbase, Edelgard seemed like a more popular choice, so basically everyone lost here. With all that being said, the people who are genuinely upset and hating on Byleth/Three Houses have taken their anger way too far in my opinion. Three Houses does not deserve to get review bombed, and fans of the game shouldn't be attacked just because they're happy for their character. The whole situation is disappointing. And all of this controversy surrounds a character that I think looks pretty fun to play. It's just a shame how all of this went down. Even though I'm not necessarily opposed to or in favor of a Three Houses rep, everyone just handled the situation poorly. Cuphead is pretty cool, though. It's a genuine shame that the Fighters Pass had to go out on such a whimper, but at least there's more DLC to look forward to.

Fighters Pass 1 Overall: 8/10. My biggest request for Pass 2: Change the title of the game to Super Fire Emblem Bros. & Nintendo All Stars Ultimate vs Capcom vs SNK vs SEGA & Knuckles (Featuring Dante From the Devil May Cry Series!)
 
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Jomosensual

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
2,014
Was thinking that was a Kirkhope type deal until I saw the part about them talking to Nintendo, which they def wouldn't be able to say if under an NDA. That's a popular name down
 

warpenguin55

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 20, 2018
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If the next day isn't going to be ready for a little bit still, can we do a thing like Concept: Your Perfect Fighters Pass #2 or something like that? If it doesn't make more work for you guys that is.
 
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NintenRob

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Heres my ideal and very bias fighter pass

1.
Character Skull Kid
Stage Clock Town
Music
Stone Tower
Clock Town
Majora Battle
Deku Palace
Ikana Castle
A medley of Song of Healing, final hours, giants theme/oath to order
Boss Theme
Mini boss theme
Eclipse of the moon (Hyrule warriors)
Mayor's office
Magic hag potion shop

2.
Character: Bandana Dee
Stage: Another Dimension
Songs:
Another Dimension
Landia
Sullied Grace
Friend Train
Superstar Ultra medley (Masked Dedede, Kabula, Heavy Lobster)
Apple juice song
Dededestroyer X
Mind in the program
Noble Haltmann
Song of Supplication

3.
Character: King Boo
Stage: Final Resort
Music:
Luigi's Mansion 3 main theme remix (resemblance to Boo theme)
King Boo battle (LM1)
Library Piano (LM2) (remix)
Ghostly Galaxy
Shifty Boo mansion (3DW)
Ghost House Medley (Mario Maker)
Twisted Mansion
Luigi's Mansion (Mario Kart)

4.
Character: Rex and Pyra
Stage: Leftherian Archipelago
Song
Counterattack
Mor Ardain
Uncontrollable
Song of Giga Rosa
Bringer of Chaos Ultimate
God Slaying Sword
You will recall our names
Battle!! (Torna)
Gormott
Letherian Archipelago

5.
Character: Dixie Kong
Stage: Tropical Tour (I couldn't pick one Tropical Freeze stage)
Soundtrack:
Windmill Hill
Homecoming Hijinx
Grassland Groove
Alps Theme
Big top bop
Scorch N Torch
Forest Folly
Horn top hop

6.
Character: Lugia (yes)
Stage Whirl Island
The songs
Song of Lugia (anime)
Lugia Battle theme
Johto Bike ride
Ho-oh battle
Johto Champion
Regi battle
Weather trio battle
Hoenn Elite four
Team Plasma
Team Skull
Gym battle Galar
Wild Pokemon Galar
Battle Tower Galar
 

DanganZilla5

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Phantom really be (close to) shadow dropping this announcement just like what Nintendo does.
 

Ninjaed

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Mine would be:

1. Crash Bandicoot
If there's any Sony rep, that'd be the one - and how fitting it'd be that this icon joined Smash in the same gen as Banjo. Nuff said.

2. Chosen Undead
Dark Souls has been one of the most influential games that came out these past years, offering a gamestyle that's seldom in smash (you can find it in the Belmonts): forcing your opponent to dance to your own tune, facing immense trouble if your thrown off-rhythm. A gamestyle based on riposting (whiff punishing, sorry) rather than counter-attacking. Likely with a gimmick on rolls, maybe an out-of-roll attack in the same vein as Terry's out-of-spotdodge attack?

3. Square Enix rep : 2B / Chocobo / Lara Croft
... and there are more candidates, though admittedly not as likely. I don't think I need to explain why 2B or Lara Croft. As for Chocobo, there's so much left unexplored in the Final Fantasy-verse that could be incorporated in Chocobo's moveset. It could also have elements from other Square Enix games too - for instance, the Mana series branched off after the first game where you did have chocobos, so you could have Mana stuff in there. If you have Mana stuff, you also have Chrono Trigger stuff. Also, Chocobo even stars in its own games, including one that came out on switch.

4. Capcom rep: Dante / Amaterasu / Monster Hunter
Either of these 3 could work so well in Smash... although MH might feel redundant with Byleth now, so despite how big it is, I'd say it's less likely. Anyway, I don't need to tell you why Dante would be nice (there's been enough speculation on him these days). As for Amaterasu, that's a non-humanoid design whose style fits so damn well with Nintendo you wouldn't know it's not. Of course there's moveset potential, shoutout to Japanese culture, 100% unique gamestyle which is still what Sakurai values the most.

5. Sega rep: Kiryu Kazuma / Segata Sanshiro / Dr Eggman
While we do have Sonic to represent his own extremely iconic series, Dr Eggman is just as famous. Still, despite how hard I wish for him to be in Smash, I doubt he'll happen for several reasons. On the other hand, if we do get another Sega rep, I'd say Kiryu is pretty darn likely, followed by Segata the loveable memetic guy. Yeeting cheaters until he jumped to outer space to punch that meteor out of existence.

6. Bandai Namco rep: Heihachi / Lloyd / ... KOS-MOS
Need I even say anything for Heihachi? In fact, same with Lloyd. We're long overdue another Bandai Namco rep I'd say. Not sure Lloyd would be the Tales rep but he's usually the go-to guy for cameos. As for KOS-MOS... yeah, she's nowhere as likely and I wouldn't bet on her but who knows? I wouldn't have bet on Joker for instance.

Sorry to Soul Calibur, Koei Tecmo, my boy Isaac, my girl Riesz and more. That's my top 6 and you're not in it, even though I'd love the additions.

-
Edit: oops, just realised that while typing my message, I read "Namco" instead of "Capcom" and put KOS-MOS in the wrong company... No one ain't seen nothing.
 
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BowserKing

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My choices

Note: not listed by most wanted

1. Adeleine (comes with Castle Dedede Stage)
2. Sylux (comes with returning Planet Zebes Stage)
3. Shantae (comes with Scuttle Town Stage)
4. Lugia (comes with Alolan Islands Stage)
5. Geno (comes with Forest Maze Stage)
6. Promoted Nintendo Franchise Rep (can't choose between Issac, Spring-Man, Muddy Mole or a Rhythm Heaven Rep)

That is what I got
 

MasterOfKnees

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Perfect Fighters Pass? If I'm trying to keep it reasonably within the realms of possibility:

1. Crash Bandicoot
2. The Knight
3. Porky
4. Agumon
5. Ryu Hayabusa
6. Geno

I don't consider myself a Geno supporter, but I struggled a bit with the last spot, and seeing everyone else cry tears of joy would be worth it. The Knight, Agumon and Porky are admittedly quite unlikely, but they are technically still on the table, the only things I wrote off for this are AT and Mii Costume promotions, as well as companies double dipping. Also, it's in no specific order.
 
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DanganZilla5

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I'll take a shot at it. My list will be balanced with my most wanted, variety, fan requests, and characters with an impact on the industry.

1. Crash Bandicoot
2. Phoenix Wright
3. Dragonborn
4. Quote
5. Master Chief
6. Isaac
 
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TCT~Phantom

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Schedule
383: Lloyd and Kos Mos
384: Phoenix Wright and Dante
385: Vault Boy, Doomguy (who imo isn’t deconfirmed), and Dovakhin
386: 2B and Neku
387: Geno and Sora
388: Heihachi and Nightmare
389: Sol Badguy and Ragna
390: Crash and Spyro
391: Tracer and Thrall
392: The Knight and Hat Kid
393: Reimu and Arle Nadja
394: Ryu Hayabusa and Rayman
395: Lara Croft and Master Chief
396: Waluigi and Isaac
397; Dixie Kong and Bandana Dee
398: Rex and Elma
399: Midna and Skull Kid
400: Rillaboom, Cinderace, and Intelleon
401: Obstagoon, Toxtricity, Melmetal, and Urshifu
402: Concept: Standalone stage as DLC and Concept: Echo fighters as dlc (echo pass, not part of fighters pass season 2)
403: Shantae, Bomberman, and Shovel Knight
404: Amaterasu and Monster Hunter

Day over. Rate Lloyd and Kos MOs and predict Dante and Wright.
 
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Sari

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Music Post

Some songs to get into the Lloyd mood:


Some songs to get into the KOS-MOS mood:

 

DaUsername

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Lloyd
Chance: 70%
Japanese third party? Check.
From an RPG? Check.
Uses a Sword? Check x2.
Not a Mii costume or Spirit? Check and check.
He seems pretty likely to me. His only real competition would be a Tekken character, since fighting games also seem to be a common choice for DLC characters.
Want: N/A

KOS-MOS
Chance: 10%
The main thing bringing this one down is thathere were plans for a Xenosaga remaster, but it got cancelled because it apparently wouldn't make money. Kind of a weird business decision to make if one of it's characters was gonna be in Smash and bring lots of attention to the series, right? I don't think it's happening. However, there is precedent for her randomly crossing over into stuff (Xenoblade 2) so it's not completely impossible.
Want: N/A

Dante prediction: 45%
Wright prediction: 20%
Noms: Gen 8 Pokémon x 5
 

Jomosensual

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Lloyd

Chance 50 - One of the more likely characters right now. Namco still has nobody since Pac-Man and with 11 spots for DLC, Namco getting 0 just feels weird. Out of all the Namco reps Lloyd makes the most sense too. Heihachi was giving Sakurai some issues with trying to convert a 3D fighting game to 2D, Agumon is more known for the anime by a bit, Nightmare's series isn't pushed as hard as others, and KOS MOS was mostly just a product of leaks. The Mii Costume is also still gone along with the rest of the Namco ones, which could mean something from them is coming soon.

Want 50 - Seems like a baseline inoffensive pick for me. Not the most interesting character but is fairly well known and from a series that's somewhat popular. Wouldn't go crazy over his inclusion but I don't I'd take issue with it either. Think I'd rather get Agumon for the Pokemon vs. Digimon fights that 10 year old me would have gone ape**** for.


KOS MOS(Think this is the first rating for her in DLC or base game)

Chance 1 - So, we're all in agreement that leaks mostly carried this right? Not that there isn't some stuff that helped her case which I'll get to in a minute, but nobody would have found her likely if literally every single leak between Terry's release and the VGAs didn't have her on it. Was a pretty damn extreme case of leaks piggybacking off each other so badly that it blew everything up. Now, for the positives on her. KOS MOS has a lot of Xenoblade connections, which is probably why she was in the leaks to begin with. And since Sakurai wanted Rex but couldn't get him in I suppose KOS MOS wouldn't have been a bad compromise for that. Now, other than the leaks all being dead, I think there's one major thing that's a complete killer here for KOS MOS, and it's that a Xenosaga remaster was planned but canceled because they thought it wouldn't make enough money. That doesn't feel like something you do if your character is going to be in Smash, especially if they're lesser known like KOS MOS. If I didn't know that I'd go about 10 percent, but with that out there I really don't think she's coming and will live on with Steve as characters people thought were locks who's invite never made it to them.

Want 40 - KOS MOS seemed like an interesting character for moveset potential. I probably would have given her a shot if he was DLC. There's others I'd rather get though and I don't really have a connection to the character.

Predictions
Dante - 35%
Phoenix - 30%

Noms
Big Daddy x5
 

Ridrool64

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The Peeping Tom

Chance: 60%. Lloyd is a character who many consider a solid shot: his Mii Costume from Smash 4 is still MIA, in fact all Bandai-Namco Mii Costumes are, and he also isn't part of the Namco Roulette taunt like Heihachi is. Many are speculating Bandai-Namco will get a character simply because of how long it's been, but I disagree with that notion considering it didn't help for Smash 4 DLC, Smash Ultimate base game, or DLC for Ultimate. Back in the days of Smash 4, Lloyd was easily the most popular Tales request, and once Ghostly Adventures soured people's opinions of Pac-Man, was arguably the top pick for a Namco character, performing very well around the time of the ballot. His moveset would be unique from other swordfighters while still being easy to create due to several potential base characters. Still, there are other characters I could see get in before him: not just other Bamco reps like Haruka, Agumon, Nightmare or even Heihachi, but even in his own franchise he has competition with Yuri Lowell. And considering the reception to swords in general, especially after Byleth, this isn't gonna go over well.

Want: 80%. Currently in one of my top 5. Although Symphonia's graphics have... aged ****ter than Mario 64 and Sonic Adventure in their entirely, its world, characters, story, themes and especially its gameplay are still all fantastic and I cannot recommend them enough! Easily my only real request for a Bandai Namco character. Especially if they find a way to make his moveset more distinctive and unique from the rest of the cast currently in the game.

Aigis the first

Chance: 15%. The character's fallen on hard times, but I wouldn't say throw her in the trash can just yet. From what I've seen, she's not actually an unpopular request, and the lack of overlap between the fandoms at least means new money...? But by no means would I bet on her anymore.

Want: Abstain, I've never ever touched a game of Xenosaga. She looks cool, I guess, but without any idea of what she brings to the table beyond animations or any idea of how she'd feel... can't really say I know enough.

Dante is gonna get a 26.20% chance score in total. Phoenix will get somewhat lower than that, 19.74%. Paper Mario x 5.
 

waddledeeonredyoshi

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Loid
Chance: 65%
Perhaps the likeliest Namco character. Lloyd is one of the few characters Sakurai has mentioned in the past. There's also no denying he'd be a major fan pleaser.


Want: 15%
Meh, not one of my preferred Namco choices. Tho I'll admit I've never played a Tales game, Lloyd just seems like a bland and cookiecutter JRPG character to me. I know he's heavily requested and wouldn't make me mad but he does nothing for me personally.


"Its KOS-MOS not koss moss"
Chance: 1%
When considering all her competition, KOS-MOS feels like places near the bottom of important Namco picks. Sakurai said being fun to play is more important than being recognizable but the only reason she's still talked about is because she keeps being shoehorned into other crossovers for some reason. She's basically the Captain Falcon or Morrigan of Namco and it's gonna take more than that to be invited to Smash. The actual Xenosaga IP is pretty much dead as confirmed by an official Namco executive and that's not a good sign when it takes more than just the fighter to create a challenger pack. I don't see why she'd get in when Nintendo and Sakurai likely have other Namco characters on their mind.


Want: 0%
Barring what she looks like, I basically know nothing about her or the series she stars in. With a limited set of challengers left, there are characters, from Namco as well as almost every other company, I'd much rather see.


Phoenix Wright: 37.31%
Dante: 66.66%

De Blob x5
 
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Sari

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Lloyd Irving

Chance: 45%
Lloyd is definitely one of the frontrunners for another Namco character. Tales is extremely popular and when Sakurai talked about Tales back in the SSB4 days he said Lloyd was the true candidate to represent the series. Honestly there isn't really anything holding Lloyd back apart from general competition as well as some close Namco competition with Heihachi.

Want: Abstain
I've only played about an hour or two of Tales of Symphonia. I don't think that's enough to give a proper want rating so I'll abstain.

-----

KOS-MOS

Chance: 1%
The main leaks that supported KOS-MOS are now dead, and Harada's recent comments about the Xeno series not being profitable enough for a remake further raises my doubts that she would be a prime candidate in Nintendo's eyes. Even when ignoring all of this recent news, KOS-MOS has major Namco competition in the form of Tales and Tekken. With those two series being much more popular and Sakurai expressing interest in them in the past, I just can't see a universe where KOS-MOS gets in over Lloyd or Heihachi.

Want: Abstain
My only experience with KOS-MOS is with her in Xenoblade 2 so I won't give an actual score. I will say that I probably wouldn't want her to get in over Lloyd or Heihachi though.

EDIT: Should also note that when it comes Monolith characters, Rex is my preferred choice.

----------

Phoenix Wright chance prediction: 32.36%
Dante chance prediction: 55.43%

Nominations:
Mii Costume: Quote x5 (with two big indie names now mii costumes, I'm interested to see how this turns out)
 
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MasterOfKnees

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Lloyd Irving:

Chance: 35% - Still one of the more likely characters, but not as much as I thought during FP1. A lot of characters find themselves in a better spot now than during FP1, but I think the opposite is the case for Lloyd. With Nintendo, Square, Microsoft and Capcom back on the table (the latter clearly wasn't part of FP1 after their Mii Costumes were included with Banjo), and a need to balance things out between big names and unique concepts all over again, I feel like Lloyd has gotten a lot more competition, where as the situation seemed to fit him much better when we were through 3/5 of the FP1. With that said, he's still got a lot going for him, like the missing Namco Mii Costumes, longevity within the Smash speculation scene, and falling fairly well in line with quite a few of the newcomer choices we've already seen so far, all I'm saying is that while I considered him the most likely character the last time we rated him, I think there are 4 or 5 characters ahead of him now.

Want: 50% - Don't really care for him, but wouldn't hate him either, he's the definition of a character I'm neutral on. There are Namco characters I'd much rather have, like a Dark Souls rep, Agumon, or even Heihachi, but I don't want/believe in them enough to the point where I'm actively rooting against Lloyd.

KOS-MOS:

Chance: 3% - This character has had a few funny months, but at the end of the day I think she's had her days in the sun as far as Smash speculation is concerned. The only reason public perception about her changed was because of 1 or 2 flimsy text leaks, and people feeling like #5 absolutely had to be a female character. Neither of those things are in play anymore, so she's back to square one, which means she's got very little going for her, especially when you take Harada's words about the failed Xenosaga remakes into account. Namco clearly love this character, but ultimately it's not them that are calling the shots, it's Nintendo and Sakurai, and I fail to see why they'd pick her.

Want: 5% - KOS-MOS is one of the few potential characters I have a somewhat negative opinion of, I haven't seen much of Xenosaga, but what I have seen makes her seem incredibly dull to me and has done nothing to win me over on a character design I already dislike. While Lloyd isn't my Namco character of choice, I'd at least still be able to understand and agree with why he'd be chosen, but I find that difficult to do with KOS-MOS as just about every Namco character offers much more than her imo, and she's niche enough that I'd question why they didn't go with someone else.
 
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