Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[BluePikmin11]

Personally, I think we should be rating Pokemon Trainer returning rather than rating Squirtle and Ivysaur standalone.

 

[skylanders fan]

chance for both 20%
both vets but were cut becuase of transformations however there are to many pokemon that should be in before there return

want
100%
one of my favorite pokemon and a vet

60%
vets should all return but not the biggest fan of his

 

[-crump-]

Squirtle:
Chance: 20%
Sadly for our Tiny Turtle, I don’t see him making it back for this Smash. I’d give him a better chance than Ivy for sure, since Squirtle is far more iconic to the series and genreally beloved by Pokemon fans. However, Squirtle’s main issue is the mass competition he faces from other Pokemon, both new and old. Sure, he has veteran status to work with, but I doubt that will be enough to make an impact.

Want: 60%
I have a weak spot for the little buddy. For the longest time, Squirtle was bar none my favorite Pokemon, and while that’s not still the case, I would love to see what they could do with the little guy without the resrtictions of the Pokemon Trainer. However, there are other choices I feel would be better to represent more generations of Pokemon.

Ivysaur:
Chance: 10%
Ivysaur has it pretty bad. Being the middle evolution, Ivysaur is not nearly as iconic as Squirtle or the numerous pouplar final evolutions. On top of that, Ivysaur also suffers from his line generally being the least pouplar from the Kanto trio, and Grass starters from other gens being more popular.

Want: 10%
Ivysaur really only worked as part of Pokemon Trainer. Out of all the Pokemon that could be chosen to represent the series, a middle form like her will never be in the running. I also wasn’t a fan of her’s in Brawl, she was always the “skip” Pokemon on my way to Charizard.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

Blue Koopa and Ceasar Salad (without crutons)
Chances-30% Each
Well, with the 3DS not being a hurdle anymore, it is certainly possible we could see transforming characters, and therefore Pokemon Trainer return. But would the Smash Bros team want to? Characters like shiek and zss are more fleshed out now, and im not sure if theyd want to get rid of those new moves, animations etc and make them transformers again. Their movesets are also 100% unique, which helps them a lot, but they are outshined by IC and Wolf in popularity.

Want- 55% Each
Im was never big on Pokemon in general, but im always down for veterans to return!

Shantae- 12.43%

Doomguy X 5

 

[Wyoming]

Squirtle and Ivysaur (chance) - 5%
I suppose it is possible Pokemon Trainer returns, but if he does, would it be a new one instead? Charizard got separated so I imagine that will stay the case even if transformations come back. Thus hurts both their chances.

What I think gives them a chance is if this game uses the same engine as Smash 4. If it does, Sakurai might throw em a bone and add them into the game as a bonus. I honestly think they are stuck as relics of the past akin to Pichu and Young Link, however.

Squirtle: Want - 50% - had a neat move set that I quite liked in Brawl. Seeing him developed further without being held back would be cool.
Ivysaur: Want - 30% - its moveset didn't really appeal to me, but it could shine on its own. I never cared for it as mid-evolutions tend to be unmemorable.

Shantae prediction: 27.5%
Noms: Phoenix Wright x5

 

[Nimbostratus]

I’m a little shaky on the scope of this day, so I’ll have to give all possible scenarios. Pick whatever is relevant:

Squirtle (Stand-alone)
Chance- 5%
Want- 30%

Ivysaur (Stand-alone)
Chance- 6%
Want- 30%

Squirtle and Ivysaur (as part of Pokémon Trainer returning)
Chance- 23%
I always got the impression the main reason for Transformation’s removal was the 3DS hardware. I know most people are glad to see it gone, but that is certainly no guarantee that it won’t come back. It seems slightly hypocritical to say the Ice Climbers are absolutely returning with the technology “hurdle” dealt with, while PT is doomed because Transformations were “eliminated.” I understand the arguments why it makes sense that it will play out that way (Fan demand, new moves for Transformation characters, etc.) but I wouldn’t write it off entirely.

Want- 70%
I’m a dirty casual. I never play as Charizard. What made them unique for me was having the whole group together. That said, I do understand what bothers people about Transformations, and it’s not like I really played PT that much, either.

Shantae Predictions- 30%

Nominations:
Ashley (WarioWare) x3
Banjo-Kazooie x2

 

[DNeon]

Ivysaur

Chance: 15%

Very unlikely, but not a complete lost hope like some suggestions.

Want: 90%

Bulbasaur is severely underated, and the first gen grass starters are amazing. It's a dinosaur with a flower ffs! Also I think grass type moves genuinely have the most interesting moveset potentials.

Squirtle

Chance: 20%

More popular, with some nostalgic anime references to boot. Still not so likely though.

Want: 55%

Not big on it, plenty of pokemon around, but I at least have good memories of this one with his cool shades and all.

Shantae Prediction: 34.05%

Nominations:
Andy x 5

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Squirtle&Ivysaur

Will give them both the same chance as I can't see them picking one over the other.

Chance: 20%

I can only see this happen if they decide to bring the Pokemon Trainer back. I assume he was cut due to 3ds not being able to handle transformation characters. That thing won't be a problem right now, but they'd have to compete with the possible Decidueye and returinig Greninja. As those two are more recent, I think they're likelier. There also doesn't seem to be as many people screaming for their comeback as other vets.

Want: 75%

Squirtle is my fav Gen1 starter and I found Ivysaur to be pretty unique.

Predictions: Shantae 27.2%

Nominations: Hades x5

 

[NeonBurrito]

Squirtle and Ivysaur

Chance - 5%

If they come back, they're coming back together. It'd be too odd if they brought one back but left another out.
Regardless, I think they both struggle with having to compete with a ton of other, more relevant Pokemon (Decidueye is a big one that I see requested a lot), and the fact that there doesn't seem to be a whole ton of support for their return. Not to mention, their return would either force there to be another Pokemon Trainer, limiting Charizard's current moveset, or having them both get newer, unique movesets, which would be a lot of work for some veterans that don't have a whole ton of support.

Want (Squirtle) - 50%

Wouldn't care either way.

Want (Ivysaur) - 65%

One of my favorite characters to play as in Project M. However, Project M isn't canon, and I'd rather see some other grass-type take their place in the roster instead. Either the aforementioned Decidueye or even someone like Grovyle from Pokemon Mystery Dungeon would be better.

Nominations: Hades x5
I'm just going to start nominating whoever the post above me nominated, because I don't really mind who gets nominated at this point. Is that allowed?

 

[fogbadge]

squirtle and ivysaur as standalones

chances: 20% i think its more likely theyll be brought back as the pokemon trainer wasnt it because of 3ds limitations that transformation mechanics were removed

want: 80% i really enjoyed playing as them id love to have them back

 

[Deleted member]

Squirtle & Ivysaur

Chance (Both): 5%
The only reason they were added was because of a gameplay mechanic that no longer exists and probably won't return. I don't see them coming back on their own either, but you never know.

Squirtle want - 70%
I generally want all veterans to return (Except for Young Link because he's already in), but I never really played as Squirtle nor am I really attached to its evolutionary line (though I prefer it to Charizard) so I can live without it.
Also, I hate to be petty but I don't want Gen 1 pandering to carry over to Smash.

Ivysaur want - 75%
See above, minus the "not very attached to the evolutionary line" part
I like all of the Kanto starters, but Venusaur is the only one I really like. It even used to be my second favorite starter as well as my favorite grass type but my hype for it dropped a significant amount at some point (I'll tell you the full story one day). That said, I can still live without it.

Prediction for Shantae: 24.68%

Decidueye x5

 

[Aetheri]

Squirtle & Ivysaur

Chance:
-10%
-7%
I don't particularly have faith that either one will return...Squirtle has more popularity one his own over Ivysaur, but I don't think it'll be enough to bring him back...I hear people talking about bringing back transformations and Pokemon Trainer, but honestly I don't see transformations coming back to be perfectly honest...

Want:
Both-15%
Out of all unique veterans, these two are the ones I'm not really missing all that much...They were both fairly fun but I'm not exactly pining for their return unlike Wolf, or Snake...

----

Shantae: 34.54%

----

Zelda Newcomer x5

 

[Rockaphin]

Squirtle:

Chance: 7%

Want: 99%
Squirtle was a unique character that I really enjoyed playing.

Ivysaur:

Chance: 7%

Want: 99%
Ivysaur was a unique character that I really enjoyed playing.

Shantae Prediction: 28%

Nominations:
Ken Masters Alt Costume for Ryu x5

 

[nirvanafan]

Squirtle & Ivysaur

Chances: 50%
I only see them coming back if the Pokemon Trainer concept comes back which is possible now without the 3DS potentially holding it back but I am not sure if it will actually happen, plus I can also see Greninja and Decidueye joining Charizard with a new revamped Pokemon Trainer if they bring this whole concept back.

Want: 100%
I would really like to see the original Pokemon Trainer return, plus I always liked playing as squirtle in particular but also ivysaur more than charizard or pretty much all other Pokemon reps besides Mewtwo & Lucario.

Nomination: Yooka & Laylee X5

 

[AlphaSSB]

Personally, I think we should be rating Pokemon Trainer returning rather than rating Squirtle and Ivysaur standalone.

Nothing wrong with doing both.

Nominating the idea of Pokemon Trainer returning, bringing back Ivysaur and Squirtle as well as making Charizard no-longer a stand-alone character, would make for an interesting concept to discuss.

 

[Kronus]

Squirtle & Ivysaur

0% Chance - I just don't see them coming back. They are not as popular as the Pokemon already in the last game. I don't think they will return as separate playable characters like Charizard nor return with the Pokemon Trainer.
My bet is on a new Pokemon to promote Gen 8 like what they did with Greninja or popular ones from Gen 7 like Decidueye, Primarina (placed 3rd in a Japanese Popularity Poll) and Mimikyu.

0% Want - They will only return if they are merged again with the Pokemon Trainer and I am honestly not a fan of them coming out of a Pokeball while the other Pokemon in the roster are not. On the off chance they will become separate characters, there will be too much Pokemon already and most of them will be from Gen 1.

Shantae Prediction 6%

Nominations:
Decidueye, Viridi, Elma, Bomberman and Professor Layton

 

[pupNapoleon]

Squirtle is definitely a popular character; I just comment that they suffer the syndrome that people believe before it would also affect Ike: being out-prioritized for a more recent character.

And about the second thing... at least with the Fire Emblem characters it seems Sakurai won't do new Unique Fire Emblem Main Character unless they have something cool to play around (unlike Pokémon where having a cool concept to play around is basically the appeal of a Pokémon).

I think having a cool concept is primarily what will give us a Fire Emblem character too.
It is why we got both Robin and Corrin (as opposed to other FE characters).
In fact, Sakurai's comments about Robin showed us a general demonstration of how he chooses characters overall: he wants them to "complete the essence" of the series, and dance in his head.
We have also, only and explicitly, seen both Fire Emblem and Pokemon characters used to promote the new games. This is a comment that has been made about no other series.

 

[ikke471]

Squitle & Ivysaur

Chance 5%

It's possible but hiiiighly unlikely

want 30%

I quite liked them and they're unique fighters

 

[Sid-cada]

Squirtle

Chance - 2.5% - Yeah, he was in once, but was cut due to transformations going away. He was sacrificed so Charizard could better stand on his own. While he could come back, I'd think they would rather focus on newer Pokemon from here on out.

Want - 55% - He'd be nice to have back, but I don't really care for his return.


Ivysaur

Chance - 1% - Mostly the same as Squirtle, but with even less popularity.

Want - 55% - Mostly echos my statement of Squirtle .


Prediction

Shantae - 19.35% - Indies are hard to say, but she's probably a close #2 to Shovel Knight.


Nominations

Anna X5

 

[Opossum]

Squirtle and Ivysaur time!

Chance: 2% for both. Pokémon moves past them further by the day, sadly. It's harder for them to stand alone, too, especially Ivysaur.

Want: 100% for both. Squirtle because veteran. Ivysaur because GIVE ME MY STARTER BACK, SAKURAI.

Predicting a 19% for Shantae
Nominating Celica x5

 

[DBPirate]

Squirtle
Chance: 15%
Want: 5%

Squirtle seems to be the more popular of the two characters. However, a major part of why they worked in Brawl was the Pokémon Trainer mechanic. I feel like Charizard was the only one who could work standalone.

Ivysaur
Chance: 5%
Want: 3%

Even though he'd be the grass-type representation for Smash, I really don't see him coming back. Ever. A more recent grass starter would be a better pick.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

He's the first turtle of the PK Crew -

Squirtle;

Chance; 40%

[Regarding both Squirtle and Ivysaur]

The biggest issue both Squirtle and Ivysaur has is Charizard, and 3DS's limitation of the transformation characters. Now that this will not be the issue, I'm sure that it is possible to take them back. The only thinkering stone left here is Sakurai and his desire to take them back.

Want; 40%

Honestly, Squirtle is cute, but perhaps my least used one of the 3 in Brawl. I do not mind having him back. Still, he is not my favourite.

Not the first, but the second of over 700+

Ivysaur;

Chance: 40%

[Look Up]

Want: 80%

Ivysaur is my favourite Pokémon in Smash, except from Mewtwo. I loved that he used 4-legs, and being a grass starter. Is there anyone I'd like to come back to Smash, it is Ivysaur.

Nomination: 5 x Doshin the Giant.

 

[PK_Wonder]

Squirtle
Chances 6%
Want 55%

Ivysaur
Chances 2%
Want 50%

I loved Pokemon Trainer in Brawl. I wouldn't complain if they got a Charizard treatment. But they have so much competition in the years leading up to 2018 within their own series, it seems slim. Squirtle is the more popular and recognizable one, so I can see this pair getting split up contrary to popular opinion. Ivysaur is really cool but much less significant within its own series' promotion.

Nominations:
Elma x5

Proposal:
Change upcoming concept day to Decidueye & Mimikyu. Concept days for entire games feel like cheating when there are clear frontrunners within the game and we are just going to vote for these guys anyway and it will be awkward when their totals don't match the "Gen 7 Pokemon" total

 

[Deleted member]

Decidueye vs Mimikyu would be intense and I'd probably put several people on ignore

 

[Deleted member]

Chance

Ivysaur: 1%

She only got in in order to complete a set. That's not necessary anymore, but she is a veteran, so it could happen.​

Squirtle: 3%

Squirtle has an actual fanbase, but he's still tied down to Ivysaur in a way. I also highly doubt we'll get a Pokemon that isn't from Gen 7 or 8.
​

Want

Ivysaur: 35%

I've never disliked Ivysaur, if only for it being a biped that uses grass attacks.
​

Squirtle: 15%

Squirtle is just a character I don't really care about anymore.​

Nominations: Labo character x3, Excitebiker x2

Shantae Prediction: 7.4%

 

[BluePikmin11]

I cannot see Squirtle and Ivysaur coming back standalone unless Sakurai decides to bring back the transformations and Pokemon Trainer. For me, characters with technical uniqueness like Ice Climbers with their duo, it feels like a given they would return. But for transformations specifically, this is ultimately up to Sakurai and how he wants to treat characters this time and whether or not characters should be standalone fighters. He could have warmed up to standalone fighters with the development of Smash 4. Or he could be eager to bring back all the characters that have been limited by 3DS limitations, and bring back Squirtle and Ivysaur via Pokemon Trainer. In that specific regard of Squirtle and Ivysaur getting in via transformations, it is ultimately a coin-flip of a chance, more or less. Standalone? Impossible.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Squirtle
Chances 6%
Want 55%

Ivysaur
Chances 2%
Want 50%

I loved Pokemon Trainer in Brawl. I wouldn't complain if they got a Charizard treatment. But they have so much competition in the years leading up to 2018 within their own series, it seems slim. Squirtle is the more popular and recognizable one, so I can see this pair getting split up contrary to popular opinion. Ivysaur is really cool but much less significant within its own series' promotion.

Nominations:
Elma x5

Proposal:
Change upcoming concept day to Decidueye & Mimikyu. Concept days for entire games feel like cheating when there are clear frontrunners within the game and we are just going to vote for these guys anyway and it will be awkward when their totals don't match the "Gen 7 Pokemon" total

Decidueye vs Mimikyu would be intense and I'd probably put several people on ignore

I’ll consider it but no promises.

 

[Troykv]

I think having a cool concept is primarily what will give us a Fire Emblem character too.
It is why we got both Robin and Corrin (as opposed to other FE characters).
In fact, Sakurai's comments about Robin showed us a general demonstration of how he chooses characters overall: he wants them to "complete the essence" of the series, and dance in his head.
We have also, only and explicitly, seen both Fire Emblem and Pokemon characters used to promote the new games. This is a comment that has been made about no other series.

Oh, I agree in that aspect, in fact, I mentioned that in my post...

I just say, unlike Pokémon, the Fire Emblem Main Character would actually lack that "cool concept" that would work for a moveset even if otherwise looks like the obvious choice for a newcomer (Chrom).

In Pokémon every single species has their appeal.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Squirtle and Ivysaur

Chance: 5%
Here's the thing...I can't see one of them being included without the other, and whilst Blastoise(last I checked) was the third most popular Pokemon directly behind Charizard and Mewtwo respectively, I just can't see Squirtle getting in now without Ivysaur. Zard is at least the MOST popular Pokemon and thus justifiable on his own.

Squirtle meanwhile is the pre-evolution of the third most popular Pokemon(although notably the most popular non smash mon at current) and very popular in the anime but Greninja has a water Pokemon set covered and Gamefreak will want to promote their latest games, lest they'll celebrate Pokemon Go's success.

Ivysaur meanwhile...well Ash's Bulbasaur never evolved, the middle evolutions for the starters are forgotten often(Charmeleon never gets any love whilst Charmander and Charizard get it all), similarly it is not a member of the latest generation and thus bad for marketing and overall was chosen to complete the Pokemon Trainer's set as Squirtle and Charizard are both more popular than Bulbasaur or Venusaur. The only thing Ivysaur has for sure over Squirtle is a current lack of grass types.

Want: 80%
These are actually the veteran cuts I miss most. I understand why Gamefreak wouldn't, but Squirtle at the very least is still a more iconic Pokemon than Greninja, who is already yesterday's news and not being promoted anymore. Squirtle meanwhile has lasted the test of time still getting plenty of merch made of him because gosh damn it people love the tiny turtle Pokemon.

Sadly this is true of all Gen One Pokemon; they're always going to be more famous than the current gens of Pokemon because they were there first when the Pokemon craze happened back when Red and Blue were first announced and then again with Pokemon Go's world wide phenomena.

Call me a Gunwunner by all means but no one is going to give a damn about Decideye by next Smash the same way no one cares about Zoroark now. Heck, if Greninja wasn't in Smash at this point, no one would care about him either, meanwhile the likes of Eevee, Meowth, Pikachu, the starters and even Vulpix of recent have been getting merch all over the place(albeit Vulpix does actually rep Sun and Moon due to being the initial Aloan Form reveal).
Lucario is a rare example of a Pokemon outside gen 1 who has managed to stay semi relevant but he's very much a rarity, and honestly I'd rather Greninja's spot just cycle to a new Pokemon each time until they find one with staying power.

Shantae prediction: 13%
Definitely not as wanted as she was for Sm4sh

Nominations:
Concept: Zelda Newcomer X 5

 

[slambros]

Squirtle

Chance: 10%
Squirtle is probably only going to be in if they bring back the Pokemon Trainer character from Brawl.

Want: 100%
I'm for the return of any of the veterans.

Ivysaur

Chance: 20%
I feel like Ivysaur has a better chance of being added without Pokemon Trainer because he would complete the starter trifecta.

Want: 100%
I'm for the return of any of the veterans.

Nominations:
Dillon x5

Predictions for Shantae:
Chance - 15%
Want - 43%

 

[Troykv]

Squirtle and Ivysaur:

Chance (Both): 25%

Highish for the fact they're veteran and part of the original iconic 151 Pokémon that pretty much every old Pokémon fan knows.

I can't go higher because of how the things works with Pokémon in Smash.

Want:

Squirtle: 50%

He is nice, but I don't care that much.

Ivysaur: 60%

I like her moveset, it's fun and unique.

______

Predictions: Shantae: 14.7%

Nominations:

Micaiah (Fire Emblem) x3
Celica (Fire Emblem) x2

 

[Kitty-chan]

Squirtle
Chance: 5%
Irrelevant mainly nya, and Greninja took over the spot of water type starter mew. The idea of gen1 Pokemon trainer coming back is just unlikely, and it would mean downgrading Charizard imo nya.

Want: 75%
I wanya see the return of all veterans nya, including these two, but I don't want them to return as Pokemon trainer nya.


Ivysaur
Chance: 5%
With the possibility of a final evolved grass type starter joining nya, Ivysaur can't compete mew.

Want: 85%
Scored higher because I liked Ivysaur more nya.

 

[Deleted member]

I never understood why so many people referred to Ivysaur as female.

 

[NeonBurrito]

I never understood why so many people referred to Ivysaur as female.

There's a yellow seed in Brawl Ivysaur's bulb. Female Venusaurs have yellow seeds in their bulbs, whereas Male Venusaurs do not.
This isn't 100% proof, because there's nothing stating in Pokemon canon that male Ivysaurs do or do not have yellow seeds in their bulbs, but its what people tend to go with.

 

[Deleted member]

There's a yellow seed in Brawl Ivysaur's bulb. Female Venusaurs have yellow seeds in their bulbs, whereas Male Venusaurs do not.
This isn't 100% proof, because there's nothing stating in Pokemon canon that male Ivysaurs do or do not have yellow seeds in their bulbs, but its what people tend to go with.

Really?
If there is, I completely missed it. Also it's not exactly common knowledge to non-Pokemon fans so I doubt it's that.

 

[zipzapsparkle]

Both

Chance: 25%
Want: 0%

They are veterans so there’s always a chance, even though they don’t seem to be that requested compared to say the Ice Climbers. To be honest I feel like Pokemon has too many gen 1 pokemon and returning them would make it even worse like the days of Brawl.

x3 Kamek
x2 Waluigi

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Squirtle & Ivysaur
Chance: 5% - Only if the Trainer returns, which I don't see happening. For Squirtle we already have a water starter and for Ivy we could very much get Decidueye, so I think we are set.
Want: 10% - Only if the Trainer comes back and Charizard is returned to him, and even then, not as much hype as he was in Brawl.

Prediction: Shantae
Chance: 15.75%
Want: 69.35%

Nominations:
Sora x10

 

[Erureido]

Squirtle & Ivysaur

Chance: 5%

I feel like the only way they'll return is if the Pokemon Trainer comes back, but seeing that Sakurai seems to have admitted that removing transformation has improved the likes of Zelda, Sheik, and Charizard for the better, I have high doubts Squirtly and Ivysaur, even if Squirtle is still one of the most iconic starer Pokemon around.

Want: 0%

Meh, not interested. I have other Pokemon I'd much rather see.

------

Predictions:

Shantae (Shantae): 9.78%

Being indie will probably be the main topic of discussion for tomorrow.

------

Nominations

Professor Layton (Professor Layton): x5

 

[Erimir]

Really?
If there is, I completely missed it. Also it's not exactly common knowledge to non-Pokemon fans so I doubt it's that.

Ivy is sometimes a female name and flowers are "feminine". That seems a more likely explanation for the non-Pokemon obsessives.

 

[Megaban]

Chance-7% (Squirtle), 5% (Ivysaur)
Looow. They were cut partially because of limitations and Charizard was most iconic out of the 3. The main reason they were in was for Pokemon Trainer's uniqueness, but they don't have a lot of reasons to come now. They ARE possible, but unlikely imo, they'll most likely just add a new Pokemon.

Want -40% (both)
I mean, I won't mind them, but I don't see a big reason to add them back except for fan demand (I don't think it's that big actually?) And there is a Pokemon I'd want to be added either way, so that would be competition...

Nominations: Lana x5

Prediction: Shantae -35%