Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[Honest Slug]

From what I recall(and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) the Geno comment came from a small group of people in Japan that were polled on who they'd like in. Many others did far better I the poll but Geno stood out because he was a weird choice.

The interview, I believe was released during the Dojo days which is when those low numbers suddenly snowballed.

Thanks, Brawl speculation is kinda a blur for me now.

 

[DreamcastBoy99]

Geno:
Chance: 49%
He got in as a costume last time, Sakurai knows how popular he is and even considered him for Brawl. However, we still got a bunch of licensing issues and red tape to wade through...but Cloud returned so yeah.
Want: 100%
I hope they find a way to work in timed hits like Legacy XP did.

 

[Zema]

It's the way you're acting about it. You guys have jumped on everyone who gave him a low score or said anything bad about him today, and you could've been nicer with a lot of the replies. For example, plainly stating your "simple observation" instead of turning it into snide, aggressive sarcasm.

I think this discussion has been relatively sane for the most part today. There was a bit of discussion and disagreement earlier, but nothing too chaotic. It's only recently that this discussion has started to get a little more heated.

I have no issues with seeing low want scores - it makes me a bit sad, I'll admit, but I think everyone feels that way to some degree when their favourite character is being discussed. We all want our own favourites to be appreciated and seeing them get slammed can be unpleasant.

What I do take issue with is when the more objective part of the RTC, the chance part, is used as a way to attack a character or fanbase. You can hate Geno all you want, but to say he has a 0% chance to get in Smash given everything we know from Sakurai, from his appearance as a Mii Costume and from the kind of game he's making is either disingenuous or outright aggressive... though if you honestly think that, I'd ask you to privately message me so we can have an honest discussion about it. It was the one thing in your post that prompted my reply above all.

That's my two cents on this. Again, I think most people have been fairly reasonable with their RTC's and even though I've disagreed with many people today, (publically and privately) I don't consider any of them to have been malicious. I even had a good laugh at YoshiandToad 's rant, and he even managed to be a bit realistic about Geno's chances (even overestimating them quite a lot to be honest, IMO).

 

[Organization XIII]

Um, no. People can dislike something for whatever reason they want. You don't get to decide what opinions should and shouldn't count.

You are right people can dislike things for whatever reason they want even a stupid one like other people ruining the character but you asked if there was a way to still follow the rules and I answered.

 

[Houndstooth]

I think this discussion has been relatively sane for the most part today. There was a bit of discussion and disagreement earlier, but nothing too chaotic. It's only recently that this discussion has started to get a little more heated.

I have no issues with seeing low want scores - it makes me a bit sad, I'll admit, but I think everyone feels that way to some degree when their favourite character is being discussed. We all want our own favourites to be appreciated and seeing them get slammed can be unpleasant.

What I do take issue with is when the more objective part of the RTC, the chance part, is used as a way to attack a character or fanbase. You can hate Geno all you want, but to say he has a 0% chance to get in Smash given everything we know from Sakurai, from his appearance as a Mii Costume and from the kind of game he's making is either disingenuous or outright aggressive... though if you honestly think that, I'd ask you to privately message me so we can have an honest discussion about it. It was the one thing in your post that prompted my reply above all.

That's my two cents on this. Again, I think most people have been fairly reasonable with their RTC's and even though I've disagreed with many people today, (publically and privately) I don't consider any of them to have been malicious. I even had a good laugh at YoshiandToad 's rant, and he even managed to be a bit realistic about Geno's chances (even overestimating them quite a lot to be honest, IMO).

Yeah, I thought there had been a little bit of heated discussion, but nothing terrible. Most have been reasonable with their answers. And, just because I disagree with a reason doesn't mean that it is wrong. We just view that aspect differently, no biggie.

 

[GoodGrief741]

So my question for anyone who happens to read this, what Nintendo series do you thing is the most likely to get a playable rep at this point? I certainly don't believe that Splatoon will be the only additional Nintendo series to gain playable representation, though that is always an option for an answer if you truly believe that.

Since Ultimate seems to be all about fanservice, it’ll probably be an older franchise with more popularity, like Golden Sun, Panel de Pon or Advance Wars. Maybe a retro or a WTF pick, but people seem iffy on whether we’ll get one of those this time around.

 

[CometX-ing]

Geno & Dillon
Chances: 40% & 60%
Geno fans got Sakurai to notice them, which is plus if nothing else. But Geno being a Square Rep means he has to compete with Square characters, the likes of which are far more popular and relevant than him. Although it's unlikely, Geno would have to compete with Sora, who has a rather large backing and is both relevant with a new game on the way and popular since the KH series is highly acclaimed. There is the Disney issue that Geno doesn't have but I don't think Disney would be miss the chance to have one of their characters in Smash Bros, especially as free promotion (not like KH needs it though).

You also have Neku Sakuraba, who, while most likely not as requested Geno is more relevant than him with a enhanced port of his game coming to Switch. And it's not like a Crash situation, TWEWY has was on the original DS and has a cult following if not more.

There is also the matter of a Dragon Quest character, but I don't really know anyone who could fill that spot.

Geno's only real plus is the Mii Costume and in conjunction with that being acknowledge by Sakurai. And given that he is in a completely different situation than Ridley being a third party character I don't think you can assume he will get the same treatment.

Dillon is another thing entirely. He got an assist trophy in Smash, and there has been at least one instance of getting upgraded from assist trophy to playable character. He has also shown that he has some staying power as he has three games now. And being as he isn't a third party he isn't beholden to the requirement of being icon like third parties are (though that is debatable). I can't really think of much in his way save for just not being super popular, but that didn't stop Shulk.

Want: Abstain and 30%
I don't care about Geno honestly, never got the popularity given that his only real playable appearance was in one of many Mario RPG. Whether he does or doesn't get in isn't a concern to me and I don't find him particularly interesting, at least not when we have multiple characters with an arm cannon.

I never played a Dillon game, but he at least looks kind of cool. I could see some fun stuff done with his rolling and and claws. Those jet things from his most recent game look like they could be put to an interesting moveset. Personally I would welcome his inclusion, but wouldn't be bothered by the lack there of.

Nominations:
Primarina x10

 

[Sid-cada]

Geno

Chance - 10% - Eh... while I feel I might have inflated his score previously, I feel that the same score should be good enough now. As of now, the closet character we can compare it too would be Bayonetta. Both are not huge faces of gaming in comparison to the rest of the third party roster, but ended up being considred due to a combination of fan demand and having their parrent companies already in. While the situations are somewhat similar, Bayo is well and truely pushed by Nintendo. Nintendo brought the funding twice to her game, when no one else had faith. In comparison, Geno got a cameo that was latter removed in a remake. Most third parties typically try to appeal to people who aren't into Nintendo in the first place, which Geno definitely lacks. In comparison to many potential Square Enix characters, I think they would most liklely push for someone else, like a Dragon Quest character. I can see it if Sakurai really pushes for him, but I don't think him wanting it alone is enough.

Want - 30% - No connection, and I am very scrutizing on third parties. Honestly, I'd rather the spot go to someone else.


Dilion

Chance - 15% - I think I overrated him last time, so I'm bringing him down by 5%. As good as his game may have been, it failed to make a splash, and he's got a tighter roster to make do with. Still, he has some following and good potential, and manged to revice a series of sequals, which is more than can be said for many franchises.

Want - 60% - Somewhat interesting, but I'm not attached enough to really want him in.


Prediction

Steave - 18.45% - Should be going down...

Chibi Robo - 13.35% - Poor him...


Nominations

Nihilego X10

 

[Runic_SSB]

What I do take issue with is when the more objective part of the RTC, the chance part, is used as a way to attack a character or fanbase. You can hate Geno all you want, but to say he has a 0% chance to get in Smash given everything we know from Sakurai, from his appearance as a Mii Costume and from the kind of game he's making is either disingenuous or outright aggressive.

I get what you're saying, but everyone has a different little system they use to rate stuff. For example, my base rating is 15%, while for a lot of others it's 50%. What's a 0% to some people might be a 10% or even a 25% to others, that's just the nature of the thread. Anyway, my point is that not everyone giving him a 0% thinks that he literally has no chance in hell.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

You haven't, but other Geno fans ITT have.


Um, no. People can dislike something for whatever reason they want. You don't get to decide what opinions should and shouldn't count.

You're that hypocrite that has horrible taste in characters, not even liking k Rool.

Guys don't even bother listening to this person

 

[Runic_SSB]

You're that hypocrite that has horrible taste in characters, not even liking k Rool.

Guys don't even bother listening to this person

This guy runs the Geno thread, just saying.

 

[Organization XIII]

You're that hypocrite that has horrible taste in characters, not even liking k Rool.

Guys don't even bother listening to this person

Hey now mate there is no reason to make this personal. Plus acting this way only reinforces his notion that Geno fans are toxic. I disagree with him often myself but there's never a reason to outright dismiss him. That's not doing anyone any favors.

 

[YoshiandToad]

You're that hypocrite that has horrible taste in characters, not even liking k Rool.

Guys don't even bother listening to this person

Wait...wait..

Runic dislikes Geno AND K. Rool? Runic can we be best friends?

On topic for today though, I'm going to ask today's fans "why Geno?"

Like genuinely, if it's because you love SMRPG I get it to an extent, but why Geno over Mallow in particular? Help me and others understand what's so special about Geno specifically, as on my play through I found Mallow to be the far more interesting character arc, and the dude is a freaking cloud which gives all manner of special weather elements available to him which screams a wider moveset potential whilst Geno has...beams.

What am I missing about the wooden puppet?

 

[Organization XIII]

Wait...wait..

Runic dislikes Geno AND K. Rool? Runic can we be best friends?

On topic for today though, I'm going to ask today's fans "why Geno?"

Like genuinely, if it's because you love SMRPG I get it to an extent, but why Geno over Mallow in particular? Help me and others understand what's so special about Geno specifically, as on my play through I found Mallow to be the far more interesting character arc, and the dude is a freaking cloud which gives all manner of special weather elements available to him which screams a wider moveset potential whilst Geno has...beams.

What am I missing about the wooden puppet?

Nothing the character just didn't click with you. Just like I found Mallow kind of annoying and prefered to not use him. Geno was loved by many and even if you weren't one of those people I don't understand why it's so hard to think that others might think he's awesome.

 

[Rizen]

Geno and Dillon as playable characters? I give them a Nope! out of 10 chance. As assist trophies Dillion has a very high chance and Geno's is moderate to low.

 

[Honest Slug]

Wait...wait..

Runic dislikes Geno AND K. Rool? Runic can we be best friends?

On topic for today though, I'm going to ask today's fans "why Geno?"

Like genuinely, if it's because you love SMRPG I get it to an extent, but why Geno over Mallow in particular? Help me and others understand what's so special about Geno specifically, as on my play through I found Mallow to be the far more interesting character arc, and the dude is a freaking cloud which gives all manner of special weather elements available to him which screams a wider moveset potential whilst Geno has...beams.

What am I missing about the wooden puppet?

Generally Geno was a better and more useful character in Super Mario RPG, so I used him more and was more attached to him than Mallow. He also has the most important role story-wise imo and his introduction in the woods is probably the most memorable portion of the game.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Geno

Chance - 10% - Eh... while I feel I might have inflated his score previously, I feel that the same score should be good enough now. As of now, the closet character we can compare it too would be Bayonetta. Both are not huge faces of gaming in comparison to the rest of the third party roster, but ended up being considred due to a combination of fan demand and having their parrent companies already in. While the situations are somewhat similar, Bayo is well and truely pushed by Nintendo. Nintendo brought the funding twice to her game, when no one else had faith. In comparison, Geno got a cameo that was latter removed in a remake. Most third parties typically try to appeal to people who aren't into Nintendo in the first place, which Geno definitely lacks. In comparison to many potential Square Enix characters, I think they would most liklely push for someone else, like a Dragon Quest character. I can see it if Sakurai really pushes for him, but I don't think him wanting it alone is enough.

So... Geno’s in the same situation as a character we all severely underrated, yet ended up winning the ballot and making it in the game?

That’s great news!

On topic for today though, I'm going to ask today's fans "why Geno?"

Like genuinely, if it's because you love SMRPG I get it to an extent, but why Geno over Mallow in particular? Help me and others understand what's so special about Geno specifically, as on my play through I found Mallow to be the far more interesting character arc, and the dude is a freaking cloud which gives all manner of special weather elements available to him which screams a wider moveset potential whilst Geno has...beams.

What am I missing about the wooden puppet?

For me, it’s the fact that ‘spirit possessing a puppet that shoots laser beams’ is a more interesting character design than ‘cloud with face’.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Nothing the character just didn't click with you. Just like I found Mallow kind of annoying and prefered to not use him. Geno was loved by many and even if you weren't one of those people I don't understand why it's so hard to think that others might think he's awesome.

Trying to start up a friendly discussion is all and maybe get a better understanding of why Geno.

Generally Geno was a better and more useful character in Super Mario RPG, so I used him more and was more attached to him than Mallow. He also has the most important role story-wise imo and his introduction in the woods is probably the most memorable portion of the game.

For me, it’s the fact that ‘spirit possessing a puppet that shoots laser beams’ is a more interesting character design than ‘cloud with face’.

These guys get the point of this. Healthy conversation is healthy.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I personally do not believe that relevancy is an issue. Even when Sakurai mentioned that Geno was an older character....:

http://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/21/nintendodream3/

-Because of that, you added him as a Mii Costume this time?

Sakurai: That’s right. He’s very popular. When talking about older characters, Geno always gets a lot of requests. He didn’t appear as a fighter, but I was able to achieve something kind of close to that as a Mii Costume.

...he still wanted him in Smash 4 and Brawl because of his popularity and move-set potential. Sakurai did not see irrelevancy as an issue for Geno and I doubt it will matter much for Ultimate's project plan, especially when ballot requests will likely take the majority of the newcomer selection. Sakurai would be extremely willing to get Geno in Ultimate from Square Enix as much as possible this time around, with Smash Ultimate likely having a higher budget to get more licenses for third-parties. While I do not doubt that we will get some newcomers partly based on relevancy, I highly doubt that it would hinder Ultimate's newcomer selection in a way that prevents older characters like Skull Kid, Geno, and K. Rool from getting in.

 

[Organization XIII]

Trying to start up a friendly discussion is all and maybe get a better understanding of why Geno.





These guys get the point of this. Healthy conversation is healthy.

Ah, my bad mate. It's just usually in my experience when someone says "what are they missing" it's rhetorical and what they actually mean it "this character isn't good to me and he shouldn't be to others to"

 

[YoshiandToad]

Ah, my bad mate. It's just usually in my experience when someone says "what are they missing" it's rhetorical and what they actually mean it "this character isn't good to me and he shouldn't be to others to"

Yeah, I can get that. Often it is, but in this case looking by this thread Geno illicites this response by many.

His popularity is baffling for such a minor one off character from two decades ago.
He's definitely the most bizarre example of a character rising to Smash popularity we've had to date IMO, since he's not a main character, a villain, a reoccurring side character, the star of a spinoff or even owned by Nintendo.

Whilst currently I heavily dislike him as an option to the extent of that rant I'm trying to gauge WHY people like him to better understand how and why this oddity has occurred here and only here. Like I said; characters of a similar appearance rate and role haven't got anywhere near the demand Geno has.

 

[Zema]

Wait...wait..

Runic dislikes Geno AND K. Rool? Runic can we be best friends?

On topic for today though, I'm going to ask today's fans "why Geno?"

Like genuinely, if it's because you love SMRPG I get it to an extent, but why Geno over Mallow in particular? Help me and others understand what's so special about Geno specifically, as on my play through I found Mallow to be the far more interesting character arc, and the dude is a freaking cloud which gives all manner of special weather elements available to him which screams a wider moveset potential whilst Geno has...beams.

What am I missing about the wooden puppet?

I'll be the first to admit that I honestly didn't really like Geno when I first played SMRPG. It was only years later when Smash came around that the hype around Geno began to build that I gave it a second thought. I started to appreciate his character design above all, and thought he would be absolutely amazing as a character because of his moveset potential, something Sakurai himself agrees with. Seriously, every single move of his is easily translateable into Smash.

Part of it is nostalgia. I love SMRPG, and Geno is a part of that love. He may not be the most interesting character personality-wise, but he's still a part of that overall experience. Most of all, I want SMRPG to get a remake or a sequel or... anything. Anything at all. It's a game that I feel deserves to be recognized by Nintendo more, and Geno in Smash might be a way to revive these characters. Being a fan of SMRPG is suffering, especially when Nintendo seems to pretend like we don't exist.

As for Mallow- I actually do like him as well. A lot. I think many Geno fans are also Mallow fans... but I also think many fans realize that Geno is more fitting for Smash given his moveset potential and his cool character design.

EDIT: Also, I really like that he's a character that has coasted entirely on his popularity above all else. I think it's amazing how far he's come given everything. Let's be honest, most characters from a spinoff game that is 20+ years old don't tend to gain such popularity. While it's a cool phenomenon, I also think it would be inspiring to other fanbases if he gets in. He'd be the only real WTF character left that would honest to god be WTF.

...Unless you get like, Videl from DBZ or something.

 

[Sid-cada]

So... Geno’s in the same situation as a character we all severely underrated, yet ended up winning the ballot and making it in the game?

That’s great news!

Ahem... read the rest of the comment, as you have to compare there situations.

First, understand that Bayonetta was and still is being heavy pushed by Nintendo. When other companies refused to fun her games, Nintendo came to her rescue twice. Clearly, Nintendo had a vested interest in the franchise, so she would be chosen.
Geno failed to even get his sole cameo in the only game out side of Smash Bothers apperences back for the remake.

Most third parties are typically characters that would appeal to people even if they weren't a Nintendo fan prior. The only exception thus far has been Mega Man, with most others having appeal to a broader case. Bayonetta is more mature and had her first games be more assosiated with other conosoles. This makes sense, as you would be paying more for a character so you want bigger returns for their inclusion.
Geno only appeals to people who played a single game on the SNES.
In comparison, someone like the Blue Slime, probably the most famous video game enemy in Japan, would be more likely to turn heads.


Unless you can convince me that these things don't matter, or that he has enough possitives to outweigh this, than I'm afraid that you haven't convinced my opinion.

 

[Honest Slug]

I don't think that remake can be held against Geno. It was obviously a low-costs remake that was made to pad out the 3DS' lifespan, they probably figured his small cameo wasn't worth the time.

Also I feel like Super Mario RPG is more recognized by the average Nintendo fan than Bayonetta, but that's simply conjecture.

 

[Houndstooth]

I'm going to ask today's fans "why Geno?"

Like genuinely, if it's because you love SMRPG I get it to an extent, but why Geno over Mallow in particular? Help me and others understand what's so special about Geno specifically, as on my play through I found Mallow to be the far more interesting character arc, and the dude is a freaking cloud which gives all manner of special weather elements available to him which screams a wider moveset potential whilst Geno has...beams.

What am I missing about the wooden puppet?

I've always liked Geno, ever since I was a kid playing through SMRPG the first time. But, Mallow was always in my party as well. While Mallow's story arc is more personal/intimate (finding where he came from, how he belongs, etc.), I find Geno's "more important" to the overall story. He's been sent to help save Star Road. Mario is trying to save his world/Toadstool, Toadstool is trying to help him, Bowser wants his keep back, and Mallow wants to know who he is. But, the main purpose is for Geno to restore Star Road by stopping Smithy. I guess that just feels to be the most important.

Also, Geno's presence always made me feel like there was more to the Mario universe. Now, we have Galaxy and Odyssey, which is awesome and really makes the Mario worlds large and exciting. But, at the time, we didn't really have that. Geno brought more to the Star Road from Super Mario World. That really excited me as a kid. But, as we know, nothing ever came of it. Side note: Geno would have been really cool in the Galaxy games.

Finally, and this would apply to Mallow as well, Geno is Square's take on the Mario universe. I believe it was the first time Nintendo allowed another company to team up with them on their main franchise. So, Geno is like a Final Fantasy character imagined in the Mario world. It is super cool to see how their take would be on this universe, and Geno seems to be a great blens of both companies. We now see Nintendo teaming up more often (Smash, Mario vs. Sonic, Mario + Rabbids) and I believe the success of SMRPG led to them doing more.

Anyway, it is all opinion, but I just really like Geno's concept. Now, I also have my Most Wanteds in (Sonic and Pokemon Trainer) and hate how it feels like the inclusion of one character means the knock out of another, but I guess that's the way things are. I wish we could all get what we want, but we can't. Let's just not take each other out during the most anticipated time of prerelease.

Side Note 2: I would love to see Mallow as an AT. I think he could use his HP Rain move to heal the player around the map. Figured I'd throw that in there real quick.

 

[Ze Diglett]

On topic for today though, I'm going to ask today's fans "why Geno?"

Like genuinely, if it's because you love SMRPG I get it to an extent, but why Geno over Mallow in particular? Help me and others understand what's so special about Geno specifically, as on my play through I found Mallow to be the far more interesting character arc, and the dude is a freaking cloud which gives all manner of special weather elements available to him which screams a wider moveset potential whilst Geno has...beams.

What am I missing about the wooden puppet?

I touched on this a bit in my massive wall-of-text post a few pages back, but to reiterate, I, personally, am not even really sure why I came to like Geno so much. I played SMRPG when I was around 9, I think, and I thought the game was cool, but it was nothing groundbreaking to me, and to this day, I'm hesitant to even call it one of my favorite RPGs due to how simple it is. If I had to think of a concrete reason, though, I feel it's his design that's made him stick with me all these years. I can hardly say for sure, but I think a weaponized doll possessed by a star spirit who shoots laser beams and insta-kill boomerangs appealed to my sensibilities perfectly, plus he wore my favorite shade of blue. In retrospect, it doesn't surprise me that Geno's design did more for me than "cloud wearing pants." There's also the fact that Geno's pretty much the best party member in SMRPG bar none, so I had him in my party at pretty much all times and thus got to "know" the character better. I'm one of those people who really connects with characters in RPGs and the like by using them, which is probably also why I never really liked Mallow much. Whereas Mallow was just a magical powerhouse, Geno was a physical and magical powerhouse and the fastest party member in the game on top of that, so I kind of felt as though one rendered the other obsolete. Nothing against the character, he just didn't stand out to me like Geno did - plus, Mallow's kind of dead weight early on when you're stuck with just him and Mario, which soured my opinion of the character and made me think he was useless for years.

So, to answer your question... I dunno, man. Geno's just cool. I think a lot of it is just plain nostalgia for a darn good game that just sort of faded away despite critical and financial success, but then I also see plenty of people who have never played SMRPG casually bring up their support for Geno. There just seems to be something about him that makes people like him on a wide scale despite his disappearance after SMRPG. Maybe it's sympathy, maybe it's something else. It feels like it would be a huge triumph for this character to be able to do something again after all these years behind proverbial bars. That's just my take, anyway.

 

[MrElectroG64]

Geno and Dillon

Geno
Chance: 50%
I feel like it's now or never. Sakurai seems to be going for fan requested characters this time around, so I feel pretty good, though not as good as someone like K. Rool.

Want: 10%
I've never really felt anything for the character. I'd rather other Mario characters be added, but if he isn't counted as a Mario character then sure, why not.


Dillon
Chance: 10%
I feel that he still just isn't big enough. He has three games, but none of them seem to do all that spectacularly. I feel that, if a character like Starfy can't be playable even after 5 games, then Dillon can't either.

Want: 5%
I really just don't care about him or his games. Nothing against him, just indifference.


Nominations:
Louie x5
Fawful x5

 

[GoodGrief741]

Ahem... read the rest of the comment, as you have to compare there situations.

First, understand that Bayonetta was and still is being heavy pushed by Nintendo. When other companies refused to fun her games, Nintendo came to her rescue twice. Clearly, Nintendo had a vested interest in the franchise, so she would be chosen.
Geno failed to even get his sole cameo in the only game out side of Smash Bothers apperences back for the remake.

Most third parties are typically characters that would appeal to people even if they weren't a Nintendo fan prior. The only exception thus far has been Mega Man, with most others having appeal to a broader case. Bayonetta is more mature and had her first games be more assosiated with other conosoles. This makes sense, as you would be paying more for a character so you want bigger returns for their inclusion.
Geno only appeals to people who played a single game on the SNES.
In comparison, someone like the Blue Slime, probably the most famous video game enemy in Japan, would be more likely to turn heads.


Unless you can convince me that these things don't matter, or that he has enough possitives to outweigh this, than I'm afraid that you haven't convinced my opinion.

Oh, I wasn’t trying to convince you of anything! The fun thing about RTC is that we all know the same facts, and we give more or less weight to them in accordance to our hunches. It’s really a meaningless distraction.

Your comment just brought to mind how wrong we usually are, rating characters like Ridley and Bayo low and characters like Takamaru and Decidueye high, only to fall victim to our own hubris.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

One of the things I think is a large point of contention is where he belongs as a character. Again, him being at third party Mario character tends to make him catch a lot of flack from people thinking there are better Mario characters AND better third party characters to include in the game. Thus, Geno gets doubly pushed from both sides of things. I don't know if that's a fair distinction to say he is taking up a "slot" of either series or getting in before other characters when he exists in a basically unprecedented area of belonging. The closest we have is Bayonetta in terms of where he belongs in with Nintendo and Smash. I don't really think he'd be filling any "spots" (Again, like with relevance we base so much of these arguments on conjecture that makes us all victims of hubris as GoodGrief741 pointed out) as much as just a character slot in general. Maybe he's considered a representative of Square, maybe a Mario character, or maybe he just represents Super Mario RPG all on his own if was to become playable.

I want to see Captain Toad and Waluigi as playable in the game too, but again, Geno exists in a weird sort of paradigm. I don't think Sakurai including him would be a slight to any other Mario characters, especially if we see Captain Toad in the game next to Geno (Dear lord, we'd never hear the end of too many Mario characters though). As long as he is unique, I don't see the problem with him being included as a Mario character or not.

I can certainly see where people are coming from in seeing him as an irrelevant one off character, and technically speaking, you're not wrong. He's just become so endeared to people as a result of nostalgia and again as an unique character in concept (Spirit of a warrior inhabiting a puppet's body with a gun on his hand). I think design wise he always stuck out as something interesting and a little more off the beaten path, which is part of the reason I came to like him and support him. In addition I basically used him all the way through til the end of Super Mario RPG and found him to be a great fit in my party as a result. He's interesting visually and I like him from his base game, in addition to believing he could play a fun move set. That's about all the justification I think people really need to support any character for Smash. I think it just happens a larger than normal group of people have come to see him as an interesting pick as well despite his relatively "low" status.

Another reason I support Geno stems from my own beliefs about Smash Bros. I think the series should be a fundamental celebration of all things Nintendo, down to the tiniest references to insignificant things and characters we've never seen since their original game. If any character really gets a big enough fan base asking for them as a character, why not include them? Smash has always introduced me to so many characters and made me look into series I never would have otherwise. Super Mario RPG is an important and unique little game in Nintendo's history, so I'd love to see it get some proper representation too. There's sort of a LONG summary of why I support Geno, and see him as a little different.

He's not guaranteed by a long shot, Sakurai's comments have the potential to be as irrelevant as ever (Ridley, Villager, Pac-Man, etc) in terms of what the future actually holds (This time against a character), and maybe that whole relevancy point will be confirmed one day as well by Sakurai. But when a game is being developed for fans, and one of the fan requested characters that could have done well in the ballot and Sakurai himself has interest in, I think those of us who like the character are going to believe in his chances and be hopeful like any fan community.

 

[andimidna]

Geno:
This is rly interesting. He’s really got the full extremes on both sides for reasons he should never be realistically considered and reasons he should seem almost obvious. I wanna thumb through more of this before deciding but I’m think of sticking around somewhere like 20% for chance
Want: 50%
Overrated in the past but over-hated in the present. Has no good reason to be here but I have no good reason to be mad about it. He has a cool design and would fit fine

Dillon:
Chance: 10%
There’s nothing wrong with him, I just still don’t think he’s there yet. For new series to represent, ARMS seems much more at the forefront of ppl’s minds, but there aren’t a ton of other options if that became a goal, which I doubt it would. I don’t know the most about him, but when Sonic’s moveset wasn’t ever really fleshed out and properly tweaked from the rushed mess that it was in Brawl, it’s hard for me to imagine this done in a way that would get ppl interested
Want: 40%
He’s not bad. I just don’t care, really

Rest later

 

[Arcanir]

Dillon
Chance: 10%
Dillon has always been a niche character. His two games were Eshop only, and while they enjoyed a small fanbase, they never broke out in popularity compared to other major new Nintendo IPs. Dillon's Dead Heat Breakers did push things a bit for the franchise, but it just came out this year, so there's nothing saying that it was in consideration when the roster was drafted around two and a half years ago. Thus the character would've likely have been seen a small, quiet franchise at the time the roster was made, which doesn't bode well for the armadillo to make his way into the game when newcomer choices are already looking tight as is.

With that said, he was made into an AT despite not having too much to his name at the time of Smash 4, and he always had a pretty loyal fanbase among Smash fans. So there is a chance he gets another look, albeit a very weak one.

Want: 85%
A really cool character that I think gets overlooked. He has a great design and his games lend very well to a fun fighter thanks to the Tower Defense gameplay along with his tools such as his claws, bombs, digging, and other such traits.

Abstain for Geno.

Edit: Nomination: Monster Hunter Character x5

 

[a smart guy]

Might as well step into this quagmire.
Dillon:
Chance: 10% His first two games were digital only, but his most recent game was too late to be in consideration for Smash. Unfortunately, he's probably going to be an assist trophy again.
Want: 40% I'm always a fan of new IPs, but his design never really clicked with me.

Fun Fact: Vanpool, the studio that made the Dillon games, were the ones who made the mini games for Super Star Saga. Since Geno's only cameo in the game was in one of those mini-games, you could say that Dillon helped keep the dream alive for Geno. Speaking of which,

Geno:
Chance: 50% It's a toss-up for me. On the one hand, we have a fairly clear lack of relevance. On the other hand, we have Sakurai bias. Still, a toss-up is a lot more likely than most other characters.
Want: 50% I don't really care about the character, but I would be happy for his fans. I haven't actually played Super Mario RPG.

To answer the question that was posed. Why do we support characters at all? In the end, it all boils down to recognition. We want Ridley to be recognized, so he won't be too big anymore. We want K. Rool to be recognized, so he could be the main villain again. We want Isaac to be recognized, so Golden Sun can have a glorious return. We want Toad to be recognized, since he's a valued member of the crew. We want Chibi-Robo to be recognized, because he's been through so much. We want Dillon recognized, so his series can make it to the Switch. And on and on it goes. And yes, we want Geno to be recognized. We want people to know about our memories of the Star Road, and the puppet with a spirit of a warrior.

Yes, there are other factors too. We want our group of supporters to be recognized. We want Sakurai to know that we are here and that we are fans of these characters. We want to be recognized as smart. We want to know the roster before anyone else does, and we have the insight into Sakurai's mind that will break the case right open. In the end though, it's all recognition. We shine a spotlight on these characters because we care. We want them to be recognized as Nintendo's All-Stars. We want them to be in Smash.

 

[Erimir]

Geno

+Sakurai acknowledges his popularity, so he must've done decently on the ballot
+He got a costume in Smash 4, probably related to that popularity.
+Square is already giving permission for Cloud to appear, and previously gave permission for Geno to be used as a costume, so they probably would not be a problem
+Since Geno is not really used for anything else by Square, they have less to "protect", so there would probably be less onerous restrictions put on his use, giving more flexibility and reducing work needed around getting Square's sign-off on design aspects, etc. (Presumably this is why Cloud/Sonic/Pac-Man's palettes are too similar to each other, and therefore kinda suck IMO)
+Geno would be relatively easy to design
+Super Mario RPG is an important part of Mario history and a highly regarded game
+While he's technically 3rd-party, he originated in a Mario game and has never appeared in anything but Mario games and Smash 4, which would perhaps relax some of the standards that would normally be applied to a 3rd-party character. He feels more like "a Mario character" than "a Square character"

On the other hand
-Geno is not relevant going forward. He hasn't had anything but a cameo since his game came out over 20 years ago, aside from his Smash costume
-Geno has a passionate fanbase, but it's probably questionable how wide it is (of course, other characters with that issue have gotten in)
-He's not iconic - outside of the Nintendo hardcore, would his inclusion mean anything to people? (again, other characters with that issue have gotten in)
-There are many characters that are some combination of more popular and more relevant
-He is still technically a 3rd-party, and aside from Bayonetta, they've all been pretty iconic characters. Even if Square might be less picky about how they handle Geno than Cloud, they might still not feel he's worth the additional hassle.
-To the extent that Geno is basically a Mario character (what else would his series/universe icon be?), Mario is not underrepresented...
-I'm not really sure how interesting he is in terms of his moveset. On the other hand, while we have Mega Man and Mii Gunner and Samus, his probable archetype has fewer members than the swordfighter archetype, say.

The bad news for Geno is that his lack of relevance will only increase over time, and I'm not sure that in 2025 or whenever the next Smash is, his popularity will maintain. Fewer and fewer younger gamers will have ever played his game (re-releases can help, but on the other hand, they're not bringing the Virtual Console to Switch...). This could potentially be a positive, as Sakurai might consider this as the best or only chance to include Geno (who knows how relations with Square will be when the next game rolls around) while feeling that some characters he passes up this time might be good inclusions next time.

Geno chances: 20%
This is the best I've ever rated Geno, and it's due to 1. Square's involvement and 2. Sakurai's acknowledgement/Geno's ballot results probably being pretty good and 3. Geno getting a costume as a result. Before 1 was a huge impediment, while 2 seemed true, it's better to see him explicitly acknowledged as being not just popular here. But nonetheless, he still seems a bit niche.
Geno want: 50%
I'm indifferent. I wasn't a huge fan of the character in SMRPG, and I'm more interested in DK and unrepped series. For third-parties, I'm pretty much on Simon Belmont and Banjo-Kazooie, and if we were getting another Square character I'd prefer a Moogle or a Chrono Trigger rep or something. But I like SMRPG and I don't particularly dislike him either.

Dillon
So this is a game. Not a super popular game, but he has a decent looking design and can be fairly easily adapted to Smash. He got an AT, so he is on Sakurai's radar. But ultimately, I don't think he has enough popularity to be a strong contender. He doesn't come up in the top results of any polls I've seen. Still possible if he catches Sakurai's fancy, but not very likely. Move set wise, though, he might be a little too similar to Sonic, which might be an impediment.

Dillon chances: 4%
Dillon want: 38%
I like his design, but overall I'm not that interested. I find Sonic very annoying as a fighter, so I'd prefer not to have another character in that vein. Presumably Sakurai would try to differentiate him from Sonic though (unless he was a Sonic Echo... *shudder*).

 

[SmashChu]

I'll do this real quick
Geno
Chances - 70%
Being bullish here. I think what helps him is its a character Sakurai has spoken of and it's heavily implied this is his last Smash. Its also a character people have wanted for a while. I think the star are aligning here
Want - 70%
One of those characters who I'd like to see but its not a deal breaker.

Dillon
Chances - 45%
I think he has a shot, bit not confident. He's gotten 3 games so thats something. Also we haven't seen his assist trophy.
Want - 65%
I wanted him for the last game as well. Would be cool if he made it in this one. Would be a real charge character in Smash.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Dillon
Honestly Dillon is weird as ****. His games are super small-time to the point I was shocked he managed to get an AT. But he has admittidly been growing. I think it's still too early for him (his first physical release is still later than SMash Ultimate) but I dont thin kI could put him in "never gonn ahappen"

Want
70%
I really should get back to Rolling Western. . .


Geno
This is probably his best shot ever. Mii costume last game, Square is already on board, and still pretty damn popular. And if you're someone who thinks smash Ultimate will mostly be fanservice, it's going to be hard to beat one of the biggest characters EVER. He might not be megaman, but his Brawl popularity was immense, to the point that Geno has stayed popular ever since, to the point of getting a mii costume. Geno getting in would be a megaton for hardcore fans. I'd say he has a pretty decent shot.

Want: 80%
I used to hate this guy TBH. But after a few crazy people left this site I warmed up to him. Now he's just a cool doll with a bunch of cool possible moves. Pew Pew laser cannons and transforming.

. . .One day i'll play SMRPG. . .

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Geno
75% Chance
100% Want

Even after 20 years, haters gonna hate. At this point, anyone who doesn’t understand the enduring popularity of Geno is just another underage who doesn’t respect their elders.

Anyone who gives Geno lower than 50% is blatantly ignoring overwhelming support from the source itself, most likely to undermine his chances to make their personal picks more likely.

Name another character who has been acknowledged by Sakurai himself, on multiple occasions. Name another character that Sakurai has stated that he straight up wanted to add to Smash. Name another character who got their own special splash screen when their Mii costume was introduced.

You can’t, because there is only one. And it isn’t your personal favorite, it’s Geno. So get over it. No one is saying Geno is 100% guaranteed, or a shoe-in, but to disregard the overwhelming evidence, is just plain stupid.

 

[Organization XIII]

Geno
75% Chance
100% Want

Even after 20 years, haters gonna hate. At this point, anyone who doesn’t understand the enduring popularity of Geno is just another underage who doesn’t respect their elders.

Anyone who gives Geno lower than 50% is blatantly ignoring overwhelming support from the source itself, most likely to undermine his chances to make their personal picks more likely.

Name another character who has been acknowledged by Sakurai himself, on multiple occasions. Name another character that Sakurai has stated that he straight up wanted to add to Smash. Name another character who got their own special splash screen when their Mii costume was introduced.

You can’t, because there is only one. And it isn’t your personal favorite, it’s Geno. So get over it. No one is saying Geno is 100% guaranteed, or a shoe-in, but to disregard the overwhelming evidence, is just plain stupid.

Or I can look at the evidence and see it points to the fact that Sakurai is unable to make him playable and give him a score that reflects that. Oh hey, I did.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Or I can look at the evidence and see it points to the fact that Sakurai is unable to make him playable and give him a score that reflects that. Oh hey, I did.

Ridley, Villager

Thanks for playing

 

[Ze Diglett]

Or I can look at the evidence and see it points to the fact that Sakurai is unable to make him playable and give him a score that reflects that. Oh hey, I did.

If that's what you honestly believe, then I'm guessing you haven't been reading any of the posts in this thread that gave him higher than a 5% chance rating. Good on ya, lad. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Organization XIII]

Ridley, Villager

Thanks for playing

I don't mean in the sense Sakurai can't see a way to make him function I mean he can't get the permission. When Geno becomes first party or Square becomes easier to work with then you've got a case.

If that's what you honestly believe, then I'm guessing you haven't been reading any of the posts in this thread that gave him higher than a 5% chance rating. Good on ya, lad. Ignorance is bliss.

Yeah ignorance it's that 100% not that I came to different conclusion based on the evidence