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Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

PK_Wonder

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
1,179
Lol. The insularity of these boards is ridiculous.
That was hyperbole, neither comes even close to being a household name, especially prior to Bayo being in Smash, but it's also 100% reasonable to suggest more gamers were familiar with the Bayonetta character in the West prior to Smash Wii U than they are with Saber prior to Ultimate, due in part to a Nintendo-promoted exclusive, highly critically acclaimed game. Maybe not a giant number played it on Wii U, but it had more journalistic and mainstream attention than Fate has ever had here. It helps that Bayonetta is a title character as well.

For the record, I have heard of the Fate series, just not the Saber character since I haven't played the games yet. Like I said in my post the series interests me (so I wasn't being insular), and if anything, I would prefer a great visual novel to Bayonetta.
 
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Jomosensual

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
2,014
saber:

Chance: 0: Don't have any idea who this is. Doing a quick google search doesn't give me any reason to want to include her either. Looks like her design would be similar to the FE swordfighters.

Want: 0: Like I said, think she would play too closely to the FE characters we already have in the game, and we have a seemingly limited new comer roster this game.

Nomination: Nathan Drake x5
Team Rocket as a Pokemon Trainer Echo fighter x5

Also, question about making nomination threads since both of mine need them. How creative do we need to get with the threads? I don't know if I'm going to be able to think up a full moveset or anything but I can definitely do a bit of pros and cons, talk about how realistic they're chances are, etc.
 

DivineWrath45

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 23, 2018
Messages
33
Saber (Artoria Pendragon)

Chance: 1%
Contrary to anyone said here, Saber's actually pretty popular, especially in Japan due to Fate/Grand Order. Also, she would be similar to Richter and Snake as they didn't debut in a Nintendo platform (in Richter's case, he debuted on the PC-Engine and for Snake, he debuted in the MSX), but they eventually got one later on.

Anyway, on the base roster, it's highly unlikely they would add her since Fate/Extella Switch Port was released too late before the roster was finalized. DLC, though, she might have a chance, especially if the first wave is going to release in January. (The Fate series had a special day in January, as well as Super Smash Bros. in general)

Want: 80%
It would definitely be interesting to see Saber in Smash. I wouldn't mind her being added in the game, especially as DLC.

Nominations:
Terry Bogard x5
Jin Kazama x5
 

ProfPeanut

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
727
Saber

Chance: 5%
I'm surprised that some people don't know who Saber is, when we've had days for the likes of Sakura Shinguji. This is someone who's so popular that her very franchise is littered with a dozen memetic lookalikes of her, all hoping to cash in on her appearance via semblance and subversion.

Like the aforementioned Sakura Wars, as well as Digimon and Yokai Watch, the Fate series is something whose substance is a lot more multimedia than video game. None of them have yet to show up in Smash in any capacity, so I doubt that Fate has much of a chance in comparison, but her inclusion would likely be a very impactful bomb in Japan.

How much visual novels matter to video games is still debated up to today, but that's not something for Smash to decide.

Want: 20%
She was originally going to be a guy, and oh, how different her series would have been if that had happened.

While hardly the worst choice in the world, there's a lot of other gaming icons ahead of her, and the fact that most people don't view her as a gaming icon should tell you about where she stands in the grand scheme of things.


Prediction
Nihilego: 12%

Nominations
Sans (boss) x10
 
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Erimir

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
1,732
Location
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Let's see...
  • Who?
  • Series has not a single million seller
  • Series has had several games, but only the most recent was released on a Nintendo console
  • Series games are not always released outside of Japan, and is definitely not particularly popular or well-known outside Japan
  • Character is not iconic
  • Character is 3rd-party, requiring more negotiation for little payoff given the above issues
  • Literally... who?
  • Why are we even rating this?
  • How did this get to the top of the nominations list?
Saber chance: 0%
I don't tend to give out high scores, but neither do I usually give a 0%. But yeah, this has no chance of happening.

Saber want: 0%
Pass.
 

CHAMPIONX9

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
288
Saber
Chance: .....
Her novel has dirty bits? It's classified as an eroge? It's not of the category of things that commend consideration?

Saber want: 0%
I like her but don't want her in smash. The series has grown, but it can never live down it's history especially since smash bros is all about history. Even fate sometimes makes fun of itself for those aspects. However in smash it would be awkward and not in a fun way, more like everyone is staring at the floor refusing eye contact.
 

DaUsername

Smash Ace
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Usually, third party characters need fan demand or some connection to Sakurai if they want to get in Smash. This character has neither, and it's also another "I had to google this" character.

Nihilego prediction: 8%
Noms: Nathan Drake x10
 
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Strider_Bond00J

Smash Champion
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Saber
Chance: 100%
He's a Fire Emblem character with a sword. He's bound to be in.
Saberface.jpg

:p

But in all seriousness:
Saber (Fate)
Chance: 2.34%
Not demanded or relevant to the Smash/Nintendo scene. She's got too much competition from other third-parties.

Want: 0%
As much as I like certain characters from the Fate-verse like Alexander the Great and Waver Velvet, I'm not afraid to admit that Fate is just not my cup of tea. Not interested in it at all. ...Now if only someone could rewrite the entirety of Fate/Zero so that Alexander and Waver were the heroes and Ryuunosuke got killed instantaneously or the guy behind the series never thought of the character in the first place...
 
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Icedragonadam

Smash Master
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Messages
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Saber

Chance: 1%
Want: 0%

One of the most unlikely characters rated. Did she even get any votes in the ballot?

Nathan Prediction: 4.77%

Nominate Hilda x10
 

Smasher 101

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Saber

Chance: 0.5%

Not as popular or as well known as a number of other third parties. Highly unlikely she make much of an impact on the ballot. No strong connection with Nintendo. With remaining spots limited I can't see this one even getting considered.

Want: 0%

I have no strong connection to or interest in her or her series. I would also prefer third party names be a little bigger than this.

Nominations: Gardevoir x10
 

waddledeeonredyoshi

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
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Drenthe, NL
Saber

Chance: 0%
Too obscure for a third party in the west anyway. And she's likely more well known for her anime rather than her ''games.'' I also can't find a Fate game on a Nintendo system. Lastly I'd imagine coming up with a moveset for a VN character, who most of the time appear static, to be pretty difficult.


Want: 0%
This character is literally ''generic anime swordsman'' personafied. Even more so than any FE character. I'm also guessing if she managed to make it in it would just increase the begging for Goku by a ****ton as there are probably alot of people who think she's an anime character by origin instead of a VN character. Also her series just doesn't look like it would appeal to me. No thanks.


Nihilego: 7.49%

Punch Out newcomer x10
 
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Lupin Red

Smash Rookie
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Messages
21
Lastly I'd imagine coming up with a moveset for a VN character, who most of the time appear static, to be pretty difficult.
Actually, it's not that hard to come up with Saber's moveset. They can just look at the anime as the basis for her moveset. I mean, it's not like they're gonna base a character's movesets just by looking at the original game.
 
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Erureido

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I also can't find a Fate game on a Nintendo system. Lastly I'd imagine coming up with a moveset for a VN character, who most of the time appear static, to be pretty difficult.
Fate/Extella, which is the Fate series's version of Dynasty Warriors, had a Nintendo Switch that released last year, and a game based on Fate/Kaleid Prisma Illya had a Japanese-exclusive 3DS game that was released back in 2014. Those are the two Fate games that had appearances on Nintendo consoles.

As for the moveset deal, Saber's moveset can be taken from Fate/Extella where she appeared as a guest character, or even the other Fate franchises can be used as reference to her moveset. Her abilities as a sword wielder can still be unique; notably, her sword can turn invisible (useful for hiding the weapon from sight), can blast wind energy, and can even a highly destructive beam (fitting for her Final Smash).

------

Moving on to my rating...


Ah yes, one of my favorite tracks from the Fate series, and what more fitting to play it for today since this is the theme of the very character we're rating.

Saber

Chance: 1%

Yeah, she isn't a very likely pick. Her franchise doesn't have much association with Nintendo consoles aside from the recent Fate/Extella port and that Fate/Kaleid 3DS game that was exclusive to Japan. Perhaps the biggest issue that holds her down is that she isn't requested very much for Smash.

She's definitely not un-iconic though. The Fate series has grown quite a lot in the past decade and a half, and the smartphone game Fate/Grand Order only made series even more popular than it already was. Saber has not only become the face of the Fate franchise but the face of Type-Moon, the company that made her, as well, so she certainly is an icon. In fact, she is one of the most iconic VN characters around.

But even if she is a gaming icon, she still isn't likely at all. The Fate/Extella was ultimately released at a time when the Smash Ultimate roster was already decided, so her being in the base roster is already unlikely. Moreover, when it comes to VN reps, Professor Layton and Phoenix Wright are far more likely to represent the Smash roster in that category than her because they are decently popular when it comes to Smash requests and are also viewed more often as gaming icons, and most Fate fans don't seem to think of Saber as a gaming icon either.

Want: 100%

But even if she is quite unlikely, I'll admit that a part of me would love to see Saber in Smash. She's one of my favorite fictional characters out there (as well as my favorite Fate character too), and I'd love to have her in Smash. The idea of turning her sword, Excalibur, invisible at times could make for an interesting mechanic, not to mention that same sword can even unleash powerful wind attacks. Her Final Smash where she uses her sword to unleash the giant destructive beam would also make a pretty cool Final Smash, and having Saber in Smash we'd get lots of awesome tracks from the Fate series with her inclusion as well.

Still, because I have lots of doubts about Saber getting into Smash, she isn't a character that I desperately want in Smash. There are still other video game characters I want more than her, and I think those characters should get priority first.

------

Predictions

Nihilego (Pokemon): 6.12%

It has story relevance, but not much popularity compared to the other Alolan Pokemon candidates.

------

Nominations

Phoenix Wright (Ace Attorney): x10
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Saber
Chance: 0%
Want: 0%

Visual novel characters aren't needed.
Also I have bad connections with the series she comes from as a whole.


Noms:
Metroidvania-like adventure mode x10

Nihilego prediction: 2.11%
 

Al-kīmiyā'

Smash the State
Joined
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Messages
2,574
but it's also 100% reasonable to suggest more gamers were familiar with the Bayonetta character in the West
You omitted these points in your post, and if you take a look at the rest of the posters who have no idea who she is, I think you'll understand my response. By the way, besides a select few characters and ideas, I hate the Nasuverse.
 
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Artix

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
254
Well, it's about damn time.

Saber

Chance: 1%
First of all, I'd like to point out that just because she has no strong connection to Nintendo doesn't mean that she will not get in Smash. I mean, look at Richter, he's not even that popular and has no connection to Nintendo aside from the SNES port of Rondo of Blood and a cameo in Portrait of Ruin and yet he got in. With that in mind, she may be unlikely to be picked at this point, but definitely not impossible.

Second, Saber is an iconic character of the Fate series, as well as Type-Moon in general. While I do agree that she's not much of a gaming icon as Phoenix Wright, she still has the edge over him for being an actual fighter. Plus, even if she's another sword fighter, they can make her somehow unique compared to other sword fighters, such as making her sword invisible.

However, with Smash Ultimate's limited base roster space, I don't think she'll get in at this point, but there is still hope for her...We already knew that Ultimate will eventually have DLC characters coming after the game's release and I do believe that she might have a chance in there.

Want: 95%
It would be a dream come true if she did made it in Smash, even as DLC. She's one of my favorite character of the Fate series and would definitely be interesting to see her in Smash, fighting against the likes of Mario, Link or even Ryu.

Nominations:
Jin Kazama x10
 

Sysmek

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 6, 2018
Messages
96
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Houston, Texas
I honestly don't see why everyone thinks she's just a Fire Emblem character lmfao. You guys really need to just look up some gameplay of her or watch a fight scene from any anime shes been in to understand within 5 seconds that just because she has a sword doesn't mean she's a Fire Emblem.

Fate is huge in Japan, and huge worldwide. I mean how many Visual Novel's get multiple games (Fighting, JRPG, Musou, Visual Novel, etc), an anime both dubbed and subbed on almost any streaming platform out there, a movie that's both dubbed and subbed and was shown in the states dubbed and subbed, and is always in the top 5 in terms of merchandise sales on sites that sell merchandise relating to gaming and stuff (Tokyo Otaku Mode, Rightstuf, etc.)

Anyways to talk a bit about her, her sword is invisible. She can project wind off of it in many ways (She can make a barrier with it, propel herself with it, use it to increase her range, create whirlwinds with it, create projectiles with it, etc.). She also has an item known as Avalon. Avalon can be used to heal herself from almost any wound as long as it's not dealt to the head, it can also be used as a mobile barrier, etc. Not only that but when her sword is unsheathed she can increase its length by 100's or maybe even 1000's of times to do her ultimate attack. Excalibur.

Also, a big part of her lore is Command Seals. Basically they're seals that you can use 3 times to command her to do almost anything, whether it be warping through space, healing, etc. However you can only use them 3 times. Even if it's something beyond her power with the power of a command seal its possible to allow her to perform almost any action

Chance: 20% For those of you unaware, Sakurai has mentioned the importance of visual novels such as Steins;Gate so he's aware of their existence. Also Phoenix Wright is a visual novel character. Lol. But im not on crack. If she gets in, she gets in as DLC. Not base game.

Want: 100% I would prefer someone else but the girl is the face of a franchise that helped me out a lot. Therefore if she's in im happy because my franchise has some representation.

Plus who wouldn't want sick tracks like this? Come on now, you guys gotta at least give this girl a chance



Also she has a lot of history for those of you doubters saying she has next to none. Her franchise has even more lol, with over 16 games (5 being Visual Novels, 2 being Musou's, 2 being Arena Fighters, 1 being a 3D Fighter published by none other than CAPCOM and developed by the people who brought you Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, 2 being JRPG's, 3 being 2D fighter's/visual novels published by ARC SYSTEM WORKS, a mobile game that has involvement with SONY MUSIC ENTERTAINMENT and over 8 anime's with 3 movies and 2 more in the making, not to mention the multiple novel's she's in.


Like just because you don't know a lot about her, or may not like her, does not mean she isn't an icon. Yes she is mainly known because of her anime, but if it helps the Visual Novel she came from is one of the most highly rated Visual Novels in history, not to mention it sold phenomenally for something that never officially got published in the US.

Nominations: Really at this point it's only Saber that'd i'd want in this game.
 
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BlueMagician

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 17, 2018
Messages
390
I really don't get the people who didn't look at something like Extella or FGO's character animations and decide she couldn't have a moveset.

edit: that comes off a bit arrogant so I'll say this, there's no requirement to put in effort into this thread but in that case, at the very least, please don't act like you know what you're talking about.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
Lol, I'm finding this day hilarious tbh. I don't think Saber is likely at all, but to act like Fate isn't a huge ass franchise in Japan and that the original didn't change the whole VN market is just silly. It just proves how much inside of a Nintendo bubble this site is. The counterarguments I sew here are no different than those towards Cloud and Bayo from back in Smash 4

Chance: 5%
I really don't think Sakurai would go this far to negotiate with a company without a close relationship to Nintendo already, and if Sakurai wanted to go for a VN in specific, I have no doubt Phoenix Wright did much better in the ballot. But there's always a chance Sakurai whales in FGO.

Want: 100%
I made her ****ing thread yo

Nominations(how do these work?):
Protector x10
 

SupriceSupplies

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
322
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The Netherlands
So uh, Saber:
Chance: 0.1%
Want: 5%

Personally, I don't care about the Fate series, at all, as I have no experience with it. But I do know it's a pretty big deal in the anime community, and I suppose it helps that she originally hails from a Visual Novel to my knowledge unlike a certain other character that's popular within the anime community but that's a different subject entirely. That being said, I'll be dang surprised if she got in. I don't really recall seeing her on many (if any) polls myself, and with Sakurai looking at the ballot for new character picks, and I think it's safe to assume the majority of characters are from the ballot when taking Ridley, K. Rool, Dark Samus, and Chrom into consideration.

I won't deny Fate's popularity, but considering that Saber's also a third party also diminishes her chances immensely, especially when considering Simon Belmont already got in. And unlike a lot of people speculate, I feel like we're going to get one more unique third party at most (with one or two echoes) anyway, and I feel there are many more popular choices when it comes to third parties, and even within in the Visual Novel genre. (With Phoenix Wright probably being the biggest contender, and even he was able to get a moveset in MvC3. Though it's debatable how well they could make a moveset for him in a game like smash. Knowing Sakurai, however, I can see it happening nonetheless.)

I'll trust people's word that she's got moveset potential and that her series is immensely popular, and if she got in, cool. But honestly, it'd be a miracle if she'd be able to get in as DLC is in the first place. But hey, anything is possible, just look at Cloud. (Hence why I only said 0.1 and not 0.)

Nominations: Abstain
 

zeonie888

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
96
Saber:
Chance: 0.5%
No to sure about the chances

Want: 5%
I don't know much about her

Nominations:
Jin Kazama x10
 

Kotor

Luminary Uppercut!
Joined
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Messages
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Saber (Fate/Stay Night)

I'm abstaining on both chance and want. I only recognize Saber because she's part of the Fate series at large. And my only experience with it is with Fate Grand Order, a mobile gacha game that I don't even play. Not quite the same as this Fate/Stay Night which I found to be a eroge visual novel (unless that also has gacha elements but I didn't see anything that obvious point that out). Briefly looking through the character list, a bunch of them are named after historical people, or people that appeared in legends. Our girl Saber here is Artoria Pendragon, named after King Arthur. A couple of the other girls are named after men from history like Leonardo Da Vinci and Nero Claudius.

Nominations
Black Knight as a boss character x10
 

Opossum

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The Other Saber


Chance: 1%
Only because Fate is THAT massive in Japan. Still unlikely, though.


Want: 0%
There's only one Saber I'd want in Smash, and he's my favorite Fire Emblem mercenary.
image.png

Plus we'd have Keith Silverstein voicing a character in Smash, and that's always great. Saber's great from a character and gameplay perspective, being one of the best overall units in SoV, alongside Palla. He'd be another sword user, true, but the slew of animations he has, especially as a Dread Fighter, would give him a lot to draw from, as would the combat skills.

Plus he's my thirteenth favorite Fire Emblem character so of course I'd prefer him over Fate!Saber. :p


Nominating Reinhardt gets a trophy x5
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Saber?

I will give than one a double-O right here. She's been around here and there, but the franchise is just so far out of reach within my range of interest that it might as well not exist imo.

That, and I really don't think she's popular with either the fans, Sakurai, or Nintendo. There was like, one game for the Switch? And it was kind of awful afaik.

Hard skip on my end.
 

PapillonXtreme

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 11, 2018
Messages
126
Saber (Fate/stay night)

Chance: 5%
As much as I like Saber to be in Smash, I don't think she might make it in the base roster, at least. The reason I rate it 5% is because of Fate's massive popularity and the fact that Fate/Extella was in Nintendo Switch. Still, that might change when DLC comes around.

Want: 90%
I wouldn't mind having Saber in the game, to be honest. She's another third party I'd like to see in Smash Ultimate alongside Simon Belmont, even if her chances are low at the moment.

Nominations:
Heihachi Mishima x10
 

Indefinite Minimum

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
Messages
471
Sayba

Chance: 1%
Being an anime swordsman, she at least has a small chance.

Want: 100%
This is something I never knew I wanted until now.

Nominations:
Dragonite x5

Also
>vote for dragonite every day for months
>prepare a post in advanced as a tribute to your friend who really likes dragonite
>dragonite gets removed from the list because someone cried about it

why bother voting for anything if it can just be removed on a whim because someone doesn't like it?
 
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VexTheHex

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 30, 2018
Messages
567
Saber
Chance - 0%
When a character causes most people to go "Who's that?" in a game focused on fan service and the top dogs of people's choices... that character is in the gutter. She doesn't even sound that far off on being a Takamaru or Lip but with relevance but comes with little ties to Nintendo. I see no reason she'd be picked.
Want - 0%
Who this? Generic anime looking girl. Nah, I'll pass.

Noms 10x Gardevoir
 

CHAMPIONX9

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
288
Saber alter is a godamn monster in mugen so moveset is definitely not the reason for her exclusion.
And there is so much she could do with wind properties. It would be hard to recreate her faithfully without being extremely broken. Would it be fun to play as nerfed saber? She has multiple appearances in fighting games, but they play way different than smash bros.

Hypothetically they would need to add a weakness. She has speed, power, agility, defense (armor), range, an invisible weapon, wind, projectiles. I think one way to set her up would be to make her the opposite of lucario. Make her get weaker over time, with more damage, with unleashing big attacks. She would have a limited supply of "mana" and it would force the player to play carefully, not waste attacks. It rewards good players, but punishes hard if you can't close out the stock. Maybe you could get her to take off her armor to conserve mana and provide a small boost in strength and speed as a strategy for players to consider. (But taking off armor could cost you more mana if you take bigger damage.)
It might be impossible for ultimate, but definitely doable for super smash flash 2 or other fan game and potentially mods.
 
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Souldin

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Kamek is in the Mushroom Kingdom U stage that has returned. As a result, he is pretty much deconfirmed.

Also just want to see if yall want me to put Captain Toad in the graveyard. I would myself but if enough people think hes got a shot I am ok with keeping him alive.
Ah, forgot about Mushroom Kingdom U. A shame to hear, Kamek would've been a neat addition to consider (and perhaps one of the only potential chances for the Yoshi series to have a second rep), but wasn't exactly high up on my wants. Thanks for informing of this TCT~Phantom.

Saber (Fate/Stay Night series)
Chances: 7%
I'll be honest, I know little-to-nothing about this series or character. I do know it originated as a visual novel, has a lot of different media related products, and is quite popular in Japan. Saber looks nice and sounds like she has potential for a good move-set, along with representing the visual novel genre in SSB... but I still wouldn't rate her chances too highly. I don't see her getting in over bigger and more world appealing 3rd parties; most folks (at least judging from here and Nintendo Life) seem unaware of her games and think she's an anime originating character. The questionable nature of her original visual novel debut might also be a minor barrier... but I won't rule her chances out completely because Sakurai is rather unpredictable like that.​
To add onto that though,, wouldn't it make more sense for a Nintendo series character to be included to represent the text-based gaming genre (such as Hikari & Donbe or the previously rated Ayumi) before a 3rd party such as Saber.​

Want: 2%
I'm not a fan of 3rd party inclusions and know little to nothing about her. She looks cute and would represent a genre not represented by other playable characters is all I can say for her in the Want category.​

You know what; I'll change tactics this time. Let's pour all my votes into one character:
Nominations: x10 Fatal Frame Protagonist
 

Sid-cada

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
1,779
Saber

Chance - 0.01% - She's dang popular, that's for certain. I mean, they make a character (whose is totally not just the exact same character in a different outfit), who's entire purpose is to make fun of how many character copy her apperence, and then made a copy of that character! but overlap with Nintendo is non-existent. Unless that port of her game was in Sakurai's hands well before this, I don't see why she would be considered, though. I don't think there's much overlap between Nintendo fans and Fate/Stay fans.

Want - 30% - Eh. I'm vaguely familir with the series, but I'm not interested in her. I'd rather have a third party closer to Nintendo.


Predictions

Nihilego - 4.56% - Not seen as fighter material...


Nominations

Reimu Hakurei X10
 
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Klimax

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
629
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Saber

Chance - 0% : I don't think many people want her in Smash even though she's very popular in Japan.

Want - 0%: No interest in that character.
 

Erimir

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I feel like people are defining "iconic" down quite a bit. One definition is "famously and distinctively representative of its type". Being famous is kind of a part of it. Most of the characters in Smash aren't that iconic, tbh. We don't have to pretend that they're all icons. Lucina, Pichu, Olimar, Ice Climbers, Lemmy, Dark Samus, Lucas and Shulk aren't "icons." The reason it's more relevant for this character, however, is that she's 3rd-party, and there seems to be a higher standard there.
She's definitely not un-iconic though. [...] she certainly is an icon. In fact, she is one of the most iconic VN characters around.
Like just because you don't know a lot about her, or may not like her, does not mean she isn't an icon.
We're talking about most of the people on here don't know who she is. It's harder to maintain that she's really quite famous in the face of that. Maybe you could say iconic in Japan. But I'm skeptical even of that... Like it's possible to be a decently popular video game series and perhaps more popular anime series without being "iconic". Nobody would say that, say, The Middle wasn't a successful sitcom. It had millions of viewers and 9 seasons. But I don't think it, or any of its characters, are "iconic". The problem is that "successful" and "iconic" are not synonyms. It's also not some grave insult to say your character isn't an icon. Many great games aren't blockbusters.

Like saying "just because she's not famous doesn't mean she's not an icon." That's like saying you can be a celebrity without being famous. I mean, yes, you can be more specific and say she's famous and iconic within Japanese visual novels. But I think for 3rd-parties, we're asking for a higher level of fame. Obviously other characters can't match Mario and Pac-Man, or even Donkey Kong, as icons, but even Snake and Castlevania are very iconic compared to this fate/ series.
I don't think Saber is likely at all, but to act like Fate isn't a huge *** franchise in Japan and that the original didn't change the whole VN market is just silly. It just proves how much inside of a Nintendo bubble this site is.
How can it be a "huge-ass" game franchise that's sold only around a million copies on consoles* across several games? While Japan is smaller than the US, it's not that small. Those aren't "huge" numbers there. The non-video game media like manga and anime surely add to its fame, but this is Smash, and video games are the focus here.

While this is a Nintendo bubble, keep in mind this is also a hardcore gamer bubble. Most people who play Smash know less about video games than the people who post here, and while my knowledge is biased towards games that came out in the US and released on Nintendo consoles, I still know more about non-Nintendo games than most. If most people here are going "who?" you can bet that more casual players would be even likelier to do so. If most of the people here are saying "who?" then a minimum of 90% of Smash players outside Japan would also say "who the **** is this?" I'd be inclined to guess more like 99%. If you think that this character would be well-known if we just weren't so Nintendo-focused, I think you're the one in the bubble.

While they do some things to cater to Japan, they are wary of pulling something like that. There's no way they're putting in a character that the large majority of non-Japanese players wouldn't recognize at all, this is why characters like Takamaru and Lip aren't getting in the game, and they're Nintendo owned!

*presumably PC sales would boost the numbers quite a bit, but still.
For those of you unaware, Sakurai has mentioned the importance of visual novels such as Steins;Gate so he's aware of their existence.
I'm aware of the existence of visual novels, and it's obvious that Sakurai plays a lot of games and tries out a large variety and visual novels are big in Japan. I don't think the idea is that Sakurai would reject her because he's never heard of visual novels. He can be aware of them, and appreciate them, and still never even consider a character like Saber.
The counterarguments I sew here are no different than those towards Cloud and Bayo from back in Smash 4
Final Fantasy has sold over 100 million games. Final Fantasy 7 and spinoffs/ports specifically has sold over 15 million games. The argument against including Cloud was that he wasn't associated with Nintendo (and I personally still would be inclined to cut him before many other characters as a result), but not generally that Final Fantasy wasn't a worthy series. I think many of the people who argued against Cloud would've been fine with a moogle, black mage, or an SNES character like Terra or Cecil. And certainly nobody was arguing that Cloud wasn't even well-known! Making an analogy between their situations is a bit ridiculous. Cloud doesn't prove it's irrelevant - you can just as easily say that Cloud shows that a lack of Nintendo connections can be overcome by being from a massive 9-figure selling series and being very popular specifically.

Bayonetta, I will grant you, is the closest precedent. But even she's not a great one. She's still sold significantly more games and Bayo 2 and 3 are Nintendo exclusives. The Switch fate/ game didn't even release simultaneously with the other platforms.

However, fan demand plays a big role here too. I'd guess Castlevania/Simon/Richter got pretty good support on the ballot. They were frequently mentioned in fan polls. There is no indication that this character or this series would've done well on the ballot.
 
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How can it be a "huge-***" game franchise that's sold only around a million copies on consoles* across several games? While Japan is smaller than the US, it's not that small. Those aren't "huge" numbers there. The non-video game media like manga and anime surely add to its fame, but this is Smash, and video games are the focus here.
Fate isn't just games, it has more media and merchandise than that that sells like crazy.
But if you want a game example, just look at FGO, that game is the reason the franchise is so big nowadays
While this is a Nintendo bubble, keep in mind this is also a hardcore gamer bubble. Most people who play Smash know less about video games than the people who post here, and while my knowledge is biased towards games that came out in the US and released on Nintendo consoles, I still know more about non-Nintendo games than most. If most people here are going "who?" you can bet that more casual players would be even likelier to do so. If most of the people here are saying "who?" then a minimum of 90% of Smash players outside Japan would also say "who the **** is this?" I'd be inclined to guess more like 99%. If you think that this character would be well-known if we just weren't so Nintendo-focused, I think you're the one in the bubble.
90% of this site didn't know who Richter was, the "who?" argument holds no weight even if it was true for her.
Final Fantasy has sold over 100 million games. Final Fantasy 7 and spinoffs/ports specifically has sold over 15 million games. The argument against including Cloud was that he wasn't associated with Nintendo (and I personally still would be inclined to cut him before many other characters as a result), but not generally that Final Fantasy wasn't a worthy series. I think many of the people who argued against Cloud would've been fine with a moogle, black mage, or an SNES character like Terra or Cecil. And certainly nobody was arguing that Cloud wasn't even well-known! Making an analogy between their situations is a bit ridiculous. Cloud doesn't prove it's irrelevant - you can just as easily say that Cloud shows that a lack of Nintendo connections can be overcome by being from a massive 9-figure selling series and being very popular specifically.
That's not my point, before his reveal, everyone would say Cloud is "too closely related to Sony" and "doesn't have major appearences in Nintendo consoles", while Bayonetta had "she's +18", both of which I saw here.

And no, Richter did not do well in the ballot and, considering Sakurai didn't mention it, Simon likely didn't either.

Also, when your franchise overrides actuap historical figures on Google searches, it is huge.
 

Artix

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I'd guess Castlevania/Simon/Richter got pretty good support on the ballot.
As far as I know, no one even voted for Richter. For Simon, I guess there's a little bit of support, but Richter? He has none. He's just a random character that Sakurai picked.
 
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Erimir

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Fate isn't just games, it has more media and merchandise than that that sells like crazy.
Define "like crazy" and put it in context with other franchises and things in Japan, otherwise you're just saying it's successful. Like I said, "successful" and "iconic" aren't synonyms.
90% of this site didn't know who Richter was, the "who?" argument holds no weight even if it was true for her.
I wasn't one of those, I even recognized the quote from the intro battle of Symphony of the Night. But I'll admit to being a bigger Castlevania fan than most.

Either way, it's likely Richter was more popular in Japan, while Simon was more popular in the West, making it a pair instead of catering to just one side of the pond. Whereas you're advocating for a character that will basically only be appreciated in Japan.

Also Castlevania is a much bigger video game franchise than Fate.
That's not my point, before his reveal, everyone would say Cloud is "too closely related to Sony" and "doesn't have major appearences in Nintendo consoles"
And my point is that those factors very well could've stopped a lesser character/franchise than Cloud/Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy is multiple orders of magnitude bigger in terms of video game sales. If Final Fantasy were a series with 1 million in sales, like Fate, I highly, highly doubt Cloud would be in Smash Bros.
And no, Richter did not do well in the ballot and, considering Sakurai didn't mention it, Simon likely didn't either.
What's your evidence for Richter doing so poorly on the ballot? They've never released that info so pretty sure you're just making that up.

My claim was based on Simon Belmont being one of the top requested newcomers in the big Reddit survey, for example. He was fairly requested among Western fans anyway. What evidence do you have of your character being requested even a fraction as much?
Also, when your franchise overrides actuap historical figures on Google searches, it is huge.
I don't know what this is supposed to refer to.

But I do know that around 1 million in lifetime sales for a video game franchise is not "huge". That's a pretty objective measure.
 
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P.Kat

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Saber (Fate/Stay Night)

Chance 10%
The Fate series she comes from has massive popularity, it also helps that she does have her game Fate/Extella on the Switch as well too giving a chance to make it in Smash. However just because she as a chance, doesn't mean it's likely I admit, considering the company she comes from doesn't have close ties with Nintendo, and if Sakurai is looking for a character that comes from a Visual Novel genre he'd most likely pick a highly voted VN character like Phoenix Wright. But as long as there's a chance, it's possible for her to join Smash, it wouldn't be for the base roster, but at least for DLC.

Want 100%
Despite her low chances, Saber would easily have a unique moveset in Smash to the point that not everything could fit. She can make her sword invisible, create a barrier or a wall of wind for defense, she uses super compressed high pressure air to propel herself at the speed of a supersonic bullet, or she can turn it on her enemy's to blast them away at the same speed.

She can either create whirlwinds to hurl at her foes, or create one with her in the center; being the eye of the storm. She also gather light energy to shoot it towards her foes and/or use it to augment her sword damage output/cutting edge even further than she did using wind.

And so much more! We don't have any characters, who uses wind in the majority of their moveset, so Saber can be the first. She would be a fun character to play with, and she can easily have a unique moveset and mechanics that would effortlessly make her different from any other Swordfighter, or current characters in Smash for that matter.

Nomination:
Amaterasu (Okami) x10
 

TCT~Phantom

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Saber

1% Chance

While fates is a video game series, it is most known for the anime adaptations and spinoffs of the visual novels. I feel that as a visual novel character, there’s plenty of competition. The most notable is the obvious Phoenix Wright, whose games are cult classics in America and popular in Japan. They are not as big as Fate is in Japan, but the cross cultural appeal and the fact Ace Attorny games are very Nintendo centric helps. There are other visual novel options like Okabe, Monokuma, or even other Fate characters like Rin. Overall unlikely in my eyes.

55% Want

She is cute, so that’s a plus. Honestly I feel that she could be interesting, but I feel that Fate/Stay needs to hit it big over here in the US for me to really want her. I also need to play/watch the series, but from my research she seems cool enough.


Nominating Concept: Dragon Quest Content x 10

I’ll end the day at midnight.
 
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