Q&A "Rate my bowser" Thread - Post YOUR bowser vids here

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

don't you mean KOOPA?

 

[bubbaking]

Isn't that also Fox's story, though? I mean, he doesn't have to worry too much about Bowser's survivability, I guess, not if he's getting stupidly early usmash kills.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

shut up about yoshis story and critique my set

 

[E-102 Gamma]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFU33HKNoro

Critique/rate my Bowser. MM with one of the best foxes in Florida. He's RockCrock's teammate.

All advice is appreciated.

Daaang... That's a really good Bowser you've got there.

Any particular reason you didn't up-tilt at about 6:47? Up-tilt is rather laggy, making it a somewhat risky move to use, but it's very fast, has huge range, and is apparently stronger than his up-smash (according to DJ Nintendo).

At about 7:00, you got grabbed while trying to grab Harriet the Guy. Don't ever be afraid to use the 'Fortress if your opponent is within sweetspot range.

I'd say use standing grabs sparingly and throw some up-tilts into the mix. Also try down-throw techchasing if you haven't already. Otherwise, your Bowser is excellent.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I'd have to check my choices, but the set was super spontaneous and rushed during tournament matches, so my head wasn't completely in the third match.

Up-tilt is stronger, but I main a character that has a terrible up-tilt, so I'm still trying to get used to using a character with such a good one.

Thanks for the help!

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Heh, I know the feeling. I often accidentally up-tilt while playing as Ganondorf or attempt up-B oos as characters that don't have a worthwhile up-B oos.

Oh, hey. That last post was my 100th. I'm a "Smash Apprentice" now. Awesome.

 

[bubbaking]

And I am your lord.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

And I am your lord.

Not anymore, you aren't.

 

[bubbaking]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFU33HKNoro

Critique/rate my Bowser. MM with one of the best foxes in Florida. He's RockCrock's teammate.

All advice is appreciated.

Finally got around to watching this, or the first game at least, lolz! Eikelmann, your Bowser is really good. As for this piece of constructive criticism, I would like you to know that I'm not speaking from hindsight. Generally, when I watch a match, I put myself in the player's shoes, as if I was the one holding the controller (sometimes I do put a controller in my hands ), and try to 'play the game' and react to everything I see. If the observed action differs from my own, I take note of it and look at the reasoning. Of course, I factor in that there are different playstyles, different choices in a scenario with multiple options, reads, mix-ups, and all that.

Alright, here I go:

1st match - The first thing that caught my eye occurred at 0:43. It really looked to me like the Fox missed the L-cancel or something 'cause that dair on your shield seemed extremely unsafe. You went for the shieldgrab, which whiffed, but in your shoes, I think I would have gone for the upB ledgehog cancel instead. It probably would have hit and even if it hadn't, you would have been safe. If it had hit, you could have followed up with ledge attack or something of your liking.

1:27 - You recovered high and I believe you had a few frames to do something after you landed, but whatever you tried got stuffed by Fox's DA. As scrubby as this sounds, a personal preference of mine whenever I recover high in such a situation on a stage as small as YS is to just upB again and ledgehog cancel it. The invincibility starts on frame 1 and it carries over into the hitbox seamlessly, which should protect you until you get to the ledge, even more so if you don't spend time waiting to see if you got a hit-confirm.

1:44 - A very similar thing happened here. You tried to muscle through Harriet with an upB and when you landed, you had free frames to act. You chose to shield (a panic action, IMO) and Fox just grabbed you to set up for the kill. If you have time to shield to protect yourself, then you have more than enough time to upB and escape to the ledge. That whole stock you were below 100%, so you always had access to Bowser's broken ledge attack in addition to your other options. A shield can be grabbed. UpB can't be. Abuse this advantage on small stages like Yoshi's.

2:13 - You hit the Klaw slash and knocked Fox down for a tech situation. Awesome! However, your choice of attack for the subsequent TC was less than stellar. You tried to predict that Fox wouldn't tech or he would tech in place and you used a dsmash. No one can be faulted for choosing the wrong option in a TC situation, especially when using someone as committal as Bowser against a char with as good a techroll as Fox's. However, your choice for covering the tech options that you did could have been better. Personally, I would have jabbed or tilted (probably jabbed). If Fox missed the tech, the jab reset would set up for, well, anything in the world that you could possibly want. If Fox teched in place, a jab could have set up for mix-ups and tilts would have knocked him off the stage. The move you chose, however, allowed Fox to tech away from you, look at what you were doing for a little while, and then punish the lag of your attack with a painful combo that landed you with 38% of damage. Basically, what I'm trying to say is: when faced with a situation in which you have to hard read an opponent's choice out of four possible options, you should go with something more safe unless your chosen unsafe option covers 3/4 of the possible choices. For instance, if Fox had been knocked down a little closer to the ledge, dsmash would have been a reasonable choice because tech in front of you, tech in place, and no tech would have all been covered by that one option.

2:26 - I am very confused by your move choice (uair) for the fsmash followup. I don't know if that was a mistake or if you were trying to cover some specific option out of 'wake-up'/tech, but whatever it was, it whiffed and you got punished, luckily with just a shine (a really sucky punish when you look at all the lag that was presented on his platter, but hey, that's great for us, right? ), but it could have been a shine > usmash or worse. Personally, I like to Klaw tech-chase when I'm chasing the opponent's plat techs while jumping. It pretty much covers most of the platform.

As a summary, I think you need to be more open and generous with your use of Fortress. Abuse Bowser's ledgehog cancels and his options off the ledge below 100%. Also, try to make safer decisions when trying to cover tech options and other multi-choice scenarios. You were really good at edgeguarding, though, and you really capitalized on a bunch of hits. I was really impressed with your play.

All in all, great match! Another successful tale to be told in the pages of Bowser's Story.

I might critique the rest of that set. The first match inspired me.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

A shield can be grabbed. UpB can't be.

Strictly speaking, the 'Fortress can be grabbed during the 4-frame invincible startup (and sometimes after the initial sweetspot hit as well, depending on who's trying to grab it). The frame window is just really small and it's rather risky to attempt it, so it's generally a better idea than shielding when your opponent is that close to you.

 

[bubbaking]

I'm pretty sure you can't be grabbed when you're invincible.....

 

[E-102 Gamma]

I'm pretty sure you can't be grabbed when you're invincible.....

It was my understanding that you can. I could be wrong, of course.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Whoaaaaa thanks so much! I appreciate it a lot, bubba.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

My most recent tournament matches are finally being uploaded!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFiaqcaU5cI

I didn't play too well this set, but that's okay.

ugghhhh man i choked so hard that set on like 90% of my edgeguards ;_;

and here's another one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxwd5wXwoaQ

 

[E-102 Gamma]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WLEcoi6EjH8#t=540s

Apparently, Mew2King's Bowser is actually pretty good.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

it's really not. just a very good player playing bowser, and a very bad doc playing doc lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeFgyb71YSM

most recent video of me in tournament from last weekend.

 

[DTBG]

Here's a game between me and Stro who has a secondary as Bowser. If it's any incentive to watch, there a bowser ditto in the second game. Any advice is gladly appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qxOM-srRDA

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Here's a game between me and Stro who has a secondary as Bowser. If it's any incentive to watch, there a bowser ditto in the second game. Any advice is gladly appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qxOM-srRDA

0:38 was a free klaw. don't use dair like that. only real uses for dair imo are platform canceled or during edgeguarding.

0:50 great recovery, but another free klaw which would have most likely led to a kill. gotta be aware of all the possible klaws. people are dumb and sit in shield for 5 million years so take advantage of that. however i will say up-b from the ledge can be a good recovery mixup so keep doing that from time to time.

0:54 you up tilted preemptively expecting him to get hit by it, even though he wasn't even above you yet. bad idea, because although it's fast at the start, it has a disgusting amount of cooldown and leaves you extremely vulnerable. you can't let yourself be open like that, especially at high percents against link because his dair will **** all over you.

1:20 gooooood, saw what i thought was a klaw coming out but he up-b'd which was good of him. be careful of that. right idea though.

1:47 okay so real quick, standing klaw is generally pretty terrible. your grounded throws are often a much better option in these situations and in this specific situation, he was at 0 and right in front of you, so you should opt for the dthrow tech chase, especially since it was mid stage.

that's all of my critique on game one.

onto game two

4:05 klaw. he did the same kind of up tilt that you did last match and it put him in a terrible position.

4:36 oh dear god, NEVER ledge attack after 100%. it could have been an accident, which is fine and all, but i know some newer bowsers do it by habit because they're not used to checking the percents and they just assume the good ledge attack is still going to magically appear. try and force yourself to remember.

4:52 bad idea. you were in a great position to just jump up there and either bair, klaw, nair, or you could have done nair or reverse up-tilt from under the platform. try not to use up-smash so much. i know i saw you doing it a lot last match and it's not very good at all.

5:00 great klaw, but generally you never want to bite. throw them as soon as possible because it ****s with their DI super hard.

5:06 another good klaw that should have grabbed but for whatever dumb reason he decided to walk forward slightly (??????) so that was silly. however, you could have also klawed in the opposite direction and gotten it probably.

5:39 noooooo don't bite for that long. please just grab and throw. back throw here would have been good because of how small yoshis is.

that's all for game two. mostly the same problems after that.

so quick summary, don't bite because if you bite during klaw you're giving them time to DI during the inevitable throw. the PERK of klaw is that it can be so poorly DI'd when it's unexpected...which is very often because it's one of the few true command grabs in the game. you should never be biting.

secondly, working on movements is something that i feel every bowser should put emphasis on. bowser is a slow character and he needs everything he can get, so we should be going as quickly as possible. practice l-cancels, wavelands, and even wavedashes (even though it's so terrible).

 

[E-102 Gamma]

5:06 another good klaw that should have grabbed but for whatever dumb reason he decided to walk forward slightly (??????) so that was silly.

That was pretty smart, actually. Stro saw the 'klaw coming and moved out of the way and into position to punish.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

That was pretty smart, actually. Stro saw the 'klaw coming and moved out of the way and into position to punish.

lmao i highly doubt that was what REALLY happened there. even then, should have done reverse klaw.

 

[DTBG]

So I met another Bowser main (tag was Lady) at fight Pitt IV and we had a money match on a recording stream.

Eikelmann I've been working on the advice you've given me. I'm still not quite there yet as I still tend to bite if their at a percent that I don't think they're at kill percentages. I also tried using the frame advantage from a koopa klaw grab release. I tried to do a dash attack off of it but ended up choking and doing a failed forward smash.

Anyway Green Bowser is me and black Bowser is Lady. Critique is appreciated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzjtll2TTHQ&feature=youtu.be

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

So I met another Bowser main (tag was Lady) at fight Pitt IV and we had a money match on a recording stream.

Eikelmann I've been working on the advice you've given me. I'm still not quite there yet as I still tend to bite if their at a percent that I don't think they're at kill percentages. I also tried using the frame advantage from a koopa klaw grab release. I tried to do a dash attack off of it but ended up choking and doing a failed forward smash.

Anyway Green Bowser is me and black Bowser is Lady. Critique is appreciated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzjtll2TTHQ&feature=youtu.be

omg. ANOTHER bowser? this is so awesome. do they have facebook or smashboards?

i'm not really partial to watching bowser dittos, but i might critique later.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Didn't see a single up-tilt from either of you. I am disappoint.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

okay david, commencing critique of your first match now.

0:48 GREAT klaw. gotta do more stuff like that. though it's dream land and he wasn't at a very high percent so it wasn't super effective.

0:50 as soon as you klawed him off, he for some reason burned his jump and then up-b'd high. you should have done everything in your power to intercept him and meet him in the air before he could touch the stage again and regain his jump. bowser without a jump is a dead koopa. nair would have covered this option greatly and since he was at pretty weak percent it would have been very effective. BELIEVE IN THE NAIR.

1:21 good ****, great patience!

1:46 another great klaw, but you had so much you could have done. why go for a dash attack? he literally did NOTHING after the grab release for like a straight 5 seconds lmao, go for the regrab and dsmash for damage. another option would have been instead of bite, klaw up throw and go for the uair, try to read a jump or something. this guy loves to burn his jumps. try and pick up on this little habits because they can end up winning you the set.

1:52 shouldn't have done ledge attack. he was shielding right in front of you with a full shield, and he was SITTING in shield, not doing anything. what do you think the best option would have been here?

2:18 the answer to that question above is right here haha, great klaw but you should absolutely not have pummeled. you gotta understand that when you pummel, that's very valuable time being used that you're giving your opponent to prepare di for the throw. good players won't let you get away with it.

2:22 why would you neutral-b there? you HAD him. he was open and ready to be hit, right in your face. you even could have fsmashed him (don't fsmash him at that percent). ftilt, fair, nair, turn around to bair. gotta be aware of your options. though.....uh for some reason you got 50+ percent from that because he DI'd into you and then he died??? LOL

2:43 would have been PERFECT. work on that. you can't make mistakes like that. especially not in a $20 money match lol

3:04 - 3:07 good fair, but yet again, you're ****ing up hella hard on the edge guards. one of bowser's biggest strengths is his edgeguarding potential, so you absolutely need to get the most out of it. i'll go ahead and assume it was attempted klaw, but see the above note =\

3:12 unacceptable. NAIRRRRRRRRRRR.

3:19 you're forgiven. great klaw.

3:25 SEE THAT? SEE THAT RIGHT THERE? there's that waste of a jump again. punish that!

3:28 great idea, i appreciate the effort. i personally love up-b in the air at low percents when my enemy is above me, but you have to try and position yourself in the air to deal as much damage as possible. you can get MUCH more than 5 to 10% lol, especially on this guy since he doesn't sdi **** and because he's a big character (eats the up-b hits right up, actually this is probably great in the mirror)

3:45 there it is again. stoppppppppp

3:55 not even gonna give you **** because that was a great klaw again.

3:58 that was your only effective edgeguarding effort the entire set. good call though. what would you have done if he had landed on the stage?

 

[DTBG]

Didn't see a single up-tilt from either of you. I am disappoint.

I think we should be more disappoint at the abundance of bad down-b s in this match.

Eiklelmann

I didn't even notice the burned jumps until you mentioned it. I really do need to start looking for these things.

2:22 Here were my thoughts for choosing neutral b at the time. In the heat of the moment I thought he was at a lower percentage of damage than he was. Usually I find that after I let someone out of an edgeguarding fire they recover too high and I can punish them with a forward air. So my thinking was get high damage and a forward air on him.

As you mentioned my edgeguarding game is still not where I want it to be at. It is still a work in progress.

Once again your input is greatly appreciated.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Good enough. I'm also in no way saying that flame is bad for edgeguarding, because it's amazing when used correctly. Just be careful.

Only one L in my name, by the way.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

http://www.twitch.tv/smashstudios/b/523482305?t=2h5m3s

first match is with ganondorf, but second is bowser. check it out. i tried pretty hard but made some pretty crippling misplays during each of my stocks that really cost me the game.

 

[DTBG]

Good to see more videos of you playing as Bowser. The only big mistakes I really saw were a couple of hard reads that didn't work out, but as Bowser you kind of have to go for them.

 

[Goatlink]

http://www.twitch.tv/smashstudios/b/523482305?t=2h5m3s

first match is with ganondorf, but second is bowser. check it out. i tried pretty hard but made some pretty crippling misplays during each of my stocks that really cost me the game.

I noticed you never really changed up your ledge game, always just jumping to the side platform, I think he caught on to that and punished towards the end. Bowser hat that invincible ledge hop, maybe you could practice that. Either way good stuff.

 

[itsbme]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McFa_U7udjA
I don't main Bowser, but he's fun to bust out. Tell me what you guys think, haha.

This was on netplay btw.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McFa_U7udjA
I don't main Bowser, but he's fun to bust out. Tell me what you guys think, haha.

This was on netplay btw.

you gotta uhhhh

do stuff

 

[itsbme]

you gotta uhhhh

do stuff

Well I don't main bowser, so it's definantly not refined. Also I don't have time to practice sadly. I just play off instinct, and do "bme" stuff, which means foward smashing. A lot. Bowser f smash is cool.

 

[Star Child]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD5mCPLPs04&feature=youtu.be
36:40 is when my match starts.
I understand most of my screw ups (dropping edgeguards, missed l-cancels, missed inputs, etc.) but would always appreciate some critique from the bowsers out there

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Needs more nair.

Also, at about 40:27, you may have been able to get him with an f-smash. Granted, it wouldn't have KO'd him, but it would still hurt a lot and put him in a bad position.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD5mCPLPs04&feature=youtu.be
36:40 is when my match starts.
I understand most of my screw ups (dropping edgeguards, missed l-cancels, missed inputs, etc.) but would always appreciate some critique from the bowsers out there

that crowd was hilarious lol, gonna touch down on a couple of things

1. i know the go-to follow up after up b from the platform is a forward tilt, but don't be afraid to go for a grab after. works for me sometimes. try it out.
2. might have worked on this guy, but don't ledge attack so much. it's pretty easy to punish. all they have to do is shield it and wavedash out after it ends.
3. http://youtu.be/xD5mCPLPs04?t=38m14s i gasped when i saw this. this **** is SOOOOOO good i swear, and i wish i could say that i wished more bowsers did it, but since there aren't really many bowser, it's not applicable =[ but try and do that on purpose when someone is stuck on a platform! sets up for some cool stuff.
4. http://youtu.be/xD5mCPLPs04?t=39m55s that was pretty good.
5. seems like you messed up every time you went for neutral b to ftilt. i'd work on getting that down consistently. pretty useful/important.
6. waiting for that dsmash at the start vs the peach was great, free upsmash haha


all in all, i was very satisfied with your play. i don't think i've ever seen you play before, actually. considering that there's not very many people out there that know how to play bowser at all, it was really exciting watching this haha

any of you guys going to apex? it would be nice to meet some of our dying clan

 

[Star Child]

that crowd was hilarious lol, gonna touch down on a couple of things

1. i know the go-to follow up after up b from the platform is a forward tilt, but don't be afraid to go for a grab after. works for me sometimes. try it out.
2. might have worked on this guy, but don't ledge attack so much. it's pretty easy to punish. all they have to do is shield it and wavedash out after it ends.
3. http://youtu.be/xD5mCPLPs04?t=38m14s i gasped when i saw this. this **** is SOOOOOO good i swear, and i wish i could say that i wished more bowsers did it, but since there aren't really many bowser, it's not applicable =[ but try and do that on purpose when someone is stuck on a platform! sets up for some cool stuff.
4. http://youtu.be/xD5mCPLPs04?t=39m55s that was pretty good.
5. seems like you messed up every time you went for neutral b to ftilt. i'd work on getting that down consistently. pretty useful/important.
6. waiting for that dsmash at the start vs the peach was great, free upsmash haha


all in all, i was very satisfied with your play. i don't think i've ever seen you play before, actually. considering that there's not very many people out there that know how to play bowser at all, it was really exciting watching this haha

any of you guys going to apex? it would be nice to meet some of our dying clan

Thanks for the suggestions! I definitely need to polish my Boozer more (need an older tv as my current practice one is mildly laggy) so I can use him as a legit counterpick. I think the auto-cancel UpB (what it kinda seems like) is worth investing some more time in like you said; provides interesting movement options at the very least. Same goes for a shorthop perfect waveland. I think it would have similar uses to Ganons i.e. f-tilt, dash grab, jab...Which you totally already use and it's awesome

And I very much am toying with the idea of going to apex. I'll post here if I firmly decide to attend.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Thanks for the suggestions! I definitely need to polish my Boozer more (need an older tv as my current practice one is mildly laggy) so I can use him as a legit counterpick. I think the auto-cancel UpB (what it kinda seems like) is worth investing some more time in like you said; provides interesting movement options at the very least. Same goes for a shorthop perfect waveland. I think it would have similar uses to Ganons i.e. f-tilt, dash grab, jab...Which you totally already use and it's awesome

And I very much am toying with the idea of going to apex. I'll post here if I firmly decide to attend.

i've honestly never met a new bowser before at a big tournament, so it would be so truly wonderful to get to meet you dude. please consider it heavily!

 

[Kalimari]

http://www.twitch.tv/azmeleecommunity/b/591433098

Match starts at 21:12

Not happy about my performance but I appreciate any advice on game 1 (i go falco game 2)

 

[Star Child]

http://www.twitch.tv/azmeleecommunity/b/591433098

Match starts at 21:12

Not happy about my performance but I appreciate any advice on game 1 (i go falco game 2)

Ok so some general thoughts:

Your bowser is pretty solid but new. You have definitely been putting in some solo work as demonstrated by your wavelands, ledgegames, and shield-dropping in between stocks, and that's great. You just need to get some match-up experience to know how to handle some in-game situations and play styles of characters.

Specific to this match:

- This fox was super laser campy and you got shot up for ~40% on your first stock. It was lessened in the following stocks but could've been mostly mitigated by using the platforms a bit more and approaching that way.
- Something that you do in neutral (and I'm super guilty of this too) is double jump into a falling aerial. You need all the jumps you can get with bowser so try to keep your double jump for as long as possible. Plus, double-jumping in neutral leads to mildly predictable approaches in most cases.
- To go along with this, some of your approaches in neutral were unsafe. A few times you came in with a SH uair and dtilts which are pretty punishable. You got a lot better with this later in the match though so good adjustments
- Your platform techchases are quite nice. That first stock you took at 23:00 was awesome (and I saw that smirk. I know that feel)
- There was an edgeguard situation at 22:40 that I think you could've waited a bit longer and put him in a worse spot or just outright end the stock there.

I was sad to see you switch in game two; I think you were adjusting well enough by the end of the first match and you had the counterpick. would've been nice to see you stick with Bowser for at least one more game.

All in all, nice bowser man! With a bit more match experience, I think you'll do quite well.

 

[Kalimari]

Thx dude. I'll try n play on stream more so I can post more vids.

I agree btw, I'm still learning matchups and learning how to take advantage of good positioning. Also need to work on my edgeguards