Rant

[Tero.]

Let me start this by saying that the MBR is a bunch of lazy mf***ers.

You may excuse my horrible english, it's bad anyway, but it gets even worse when I'm pissed and clearly I am super pissed right now.

Like for real, what have we accomplished during the last few months?
We started voting on a tier list and like 10 people actually cared to vote/discuss anything, then the "leadership" (well actually only Hyuga) stopped that list from being released (and obviously that was the right thing to do) because there was not enough discussion.
Then we continued to talk about Pichu and Kirby and released a half-***** Tier List, without actually voting on it, to keep people quiet (wow, in this case we could've just released the results from the vote we already had) and now we're doing nothing at all.

And let me tell you even though Brawl is such a bad game and they have a community with like 95% ******* (even like 50% stupid people in the BR itself, not kidding) the BBR still gets its job done and does most things way better than the MBR.

1. Inactive people are being kicked out. If you want to be a member of the BR you should do something for it since the BR is a privilege. That's not that hard to understand, isn't it?

And about this "we-dont-kick-people-if-they're-able-to-make-a-good-post-once-a-year"-thing, yeah, if you're not able to discuss things properly you definitely have no business in here, but if you are not WILLING to discuss anything you have no business in here either.

2. The leadership does actually care and do something. Now let's have a look at the MBR leaders.

Cactuar: Last post 08-20-2010 oh wow, what date do we have today? Certainly not august anymore.
Don't get me wrong I really respect him and he's one of the people whose posts I love to read but he is definitely not the right person for this job.

unknown: He does post but without knowing it you could've never guessed he's one of the BR leaders because he never did ANYTHING of the stuff a leader should do.
Very good member but he isn't the right person for this job either.

Slhoka: He'd be good, but he's to inactive (last post in the BR 09-03-2010) and it doesn't really seem like he cares about doing anything tbqh.

Hyuga: The only one who did anything and is also fitted for this job. I have no complains, sadly he's on vacation at the moment.

Oh and Umbreon don't tell me **** about "the-MBR-does-not-need-any-leadership" because clearly it does not work without it as anyone apparently only me can see.

3. As I allready mentioned the MBR is full of lazy ****ers who don't care about doing/reading/posting anything. If you feel like Melee is too old and everything has been said and done you're welcome to get the **** out of here because you're obviously aren't going to help us much.

We don't even have an overview about all the people in here because the member list hasn't been updated since march. Here is what I would do: choose a few new leaders (KK and Pink Reaper come to mind, Hyuga is fine and Umbreon might get his position back), clean the user group and make a new admission topic. People willing to discuss stuff should also be willing to write an application and I don't ****ing care if their name is Mew2King, Mango, Armada or Obama himself.
If you're in and don't post (without any good reason like work, university, no internet, whatever) that's it, you can apply again if you're content to post again.

Obviously this ain't gonna happen because it seems like everyone is totally fine with the current situation, so **** this.

Now if you want to kick me out because my post is to offensive, ****, go ahead and do it, won't change anything to the situation tho.
I'm done with actually trying to start something in here.

Have a nice day,
Tero out.

 

[KevinM]

I don't think anyone is going to kick you out for being overly offensive but you have to realize a lot of us are starting school this month, it's a little hectic for a lot of us and many of us have stuff going on outside of the super secret room.

Sorry that we can't all show zeal every day but I for one know I at least check and will comment when I can but it doesn't mean because people aren't commenting on everything currently that they are all lazy mother****ers or whatever.

 

[Cactuar]

lolol u mad

 

[Deleted member]

Melee is very heavily explored and there's not a lot of mystery left to the game. Our rules are pretty much universal. The tier list is fairly agreed upon. Any kind of match-up chart is very debatable. There's not really any new technical developments to check for. There's no major breakout players lately. No tournament to focus on like pound 4. I just don't know what we're supposed to be excited about.

I don't see why you'd be kicked out for being upset. I think our forum's most intelligent members (MBR in general) have come to terms with the fact that this game is 9 years old, and it was bound to get stagnant at some point.

I don't want a leadership position back, especially if I'm going to be pressured into unnecessary projects.

 

[DoH]

Since when is the MBR all srs bzns? Like we don't have **** to do

The only serious activity I'd like is to have indepth debate on stages, you know something that actually affects our community, rather than a tier list. What does updating the tier list accomplish exactly, other than give the peasants something to squabble about for pages upon pages?

 

[Marc]

Not meaning to sound like a **** here, but what's keeping you from starting up said stage discussion?

 

[Skler]

School has been rather rude to me up to this point, and thoughts of KevinM constantly distract me when I'm trying to post. I do want to see peasants squabble more...


Also, ANOTHER stage discussion? This time Brinstar is my target.

I'm after you, Brinstar. Your days are numbered.

 

[pockyD]

god ****

a lot of people (or at the very least, me) just don't get a **** about making a tier list or matchup chart because there's no consequence to it. does "knowing" whether marth vs fox is "55-45 or "52-48" change the game in any way? does it make the community better?

no, and i'd actually strongly consider the notion that it makes it worse

there are plenty of bright minds in here who would love to debate that with you. There are also some who just don't give a ****; you shouldn't expect everyone to have an opinion about everything

 

[Slhoka]

****, I wrote a long post and my browser crashed when I was about to post it. And I recently switched browsers, so I haven't installed Lazarus (get it !) to get my text back. No way I'm typing that again.

god ****

a lot of people (or at the very least, me) just don't get a **** about making a tier list or matchup chart because there's no consequence to it. does "knowing" whether marth vs fox is "55-45 or "52-48" change the game in any way? does it make the community better?

no, and i'd actually strongly consider the notion that it makes it worse

there are plenty of bright minds in here who would love to debate that with you. There are also some who just don't give a ****; you shouldn't expect everyone to have an opinion about everything

This, but said less aggressively as I like peace, love flowers and kittens.
That's the reason why I wasn't active recently : the tier list was the only active project, and while it represents the evolution of the metagame... debates about it kinda bore me. Not to mention the fact I didn't want to vote since I think my understanding of the matchups at high level is too poor.

That being said, I'm fine with new projects. I'll be happy to fight Brinstar along Skler

Also, to find new project ideas, why don't we create a topic in the Melee Discussion section to ask what's left to do for this game ? (without saying we're looking for a BR project, of course)
A backroom made of selected members is necessary to ensure that debates stay on topic, but when it comes to find new ideas, why not using the collective intelligence ? What do you guys think of this ? I prefer to ask your opinion first because it's late and I'm tired and I haven't given it much thought, but right now it seems to me this idea could work.

 

[Luma]

if you dont care to make a tierlist or a matchup chart, then why do you care to be in the BR pocky?

 

[Deleted member]

if you dont care to make a tierlist or a matchup chart, then why do you care to be in the BR pocky?

maybe on the basis that the MBR isn't about making tier lists or match-up charts?

The MBR is designed to be a limited forum where we can debate smash just like Melee Discussion without filtering posts for dumb shit. Any projects we put forth are 100% optional. We don't owe anyone anything.

 

[Luma]

sry but that sounds like there is actually 0 use in having a BR umbreon

 

[pockyD]

if you dont care to make a tierlist or a matchup chart, then why do you care to be in the BR pocky?

frankly, i don't if that's the attitude that most MBR members have

thankfully, it's not, and most people understand that it's normal to not be interested in every single thing that comes across your table

the mbr is just an avenue for intelligent discussion; it's not some sort of congress where we're required to chime in on anything that's brought up

 

[Deleted member]

sry but that sounds like there is actually 0 use in having a BR umbreon

That's exactly correct. I really wish people would stop assigning some level of importance to a video game forum.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I mentioned this a while back in the Match Up Thread but it was ignored because people enjoy being ********:

If a match up chart is done for Melee, it shouldnt be done on a 100 point scale or even a 10 point scale but rather a 5 point scale, essentially Large Disadvantage, Disadvantage, Even, Advantage, Large Advantage.

The higher the scale the more time you spend arguing things that dont matter, like whether or not a match up is 55/45 or 60/40. At the end of the day since those numbers are completely arbitrary you have no ability to actually gauge what the difference is between them. A 5 point scale isnt exact but you cant attempt to be exact in a situation like this because Melee doesnt have Static Match Ups(Marth/Fox on FD vs Marth/Fox on DL64)

Also I disagree with Mow. There is importance to what this forum produces, if nothing else than from the Stage List/Rule Set. At the end of the day many tournaments will adopt what we put out as the accepted stage list and that has huge affects on tournaments that people play FOR MONEY! The Tier List is far less of an important factor though it hugely affects newer players but they dont matter so w/e.

 

[Deleted member]

Also I disagree with Mow. There is importance to what this forum produces, if nothing else than from the Stage List/Rule Set. At the end of the day many tournaments will adopt what we put out as the accepted stage list and that has huge affects on tournaments that people play FOR MONEY! The Tier List is far less of an important factor though it hugely affects newer players but they dont matter so w/e.

There is value in a rule set, but let's be honest about the necessity of our influence. Tournament Hosts would still hold tournaments, and through trial and error would develop their own standardized rules through the passing of time. The only reason it was pressed onto the MBR in the first place was because MLG needed a standard rule set for it's circuit back in 2004.

The MBR gives its members access to relatively equal intellects and mindsets with which to discuss melee in pretty much any aspect. It is designed to be self-sufficient and independent from the rest of the forum. Any role as a governing body to the community is secondary in purpose, and any prestige from access is also secondary in nature.

 

[Wobbles]

Plus if people decide a stage is too "gay" they won't play on it no matter what we say.

If I'd known saying "it's gay so I don't have to bother" was a valid debate tactic I'd have signed up for it back in high-school.

Debate, not being gay.

 

[Marc]

The outcome of this thread does make me wonder why the MBR had a "vote or be removed" poll not too long ago. Why do members need to maintain activity in a social room?

 

[KevinM]

Because Mow has stated it isn't a social room, i feel as if you aren't reading. It's a place where you can comment on melee related subjects, with other high standing or intelligent members of the melee community. He's merely implying that goals such as the tierlist, and the matchup chart are secondary endeavors that we choose to take on ourselves.

 

[Skler]

KevinM, dedicated nail-on-the-head-hitter.

 

[SleepyK]

Right, but we still hold a strong influence as the mbr is considered to consist of intelligent smashers. The fact that people in the old final tier list thread kept looking for the MBR to make a new tier list is indicative of this.

If a sense of duty is up to the people in the MBR... then those with a sense of duty should get together and do the things that the people want us to do. Instead of most of us being on the fence because not everybody feels the need to do something, let's do something and let those who don't want to do something... not do something.

i have to pee and i haven't slept

 

[Marc]

Because Mow has stated it isn't a social room, i feel as if you aren't reading. It's a place where you can comment on melee related subjects, with other high standing or intelligent members of the melee community. He's merely implying that goals such as the tierlist, and the matchup chart are secondary endeavors that we choose to take on ourselves.

He also pretty much said there's nothing to talk about anymore, but that's besides the point. You can tell me I'm not reading, but you missed my point completely. Let me rephrase it: why did people need to vote demonstrating activity in a place with optional activity? With this I am referring to the recent member purge for people who didn't vote in a poll to show they still keep up, under the guise of removing dead weight. Also, do you really feel this room doesn't border on being a social room? I'm not condemning it per se, but there is an identity crisis here. This room hinges on two conflicting philosophies and it doesn't work. The tier list is a clear example of this, as it was simply an half-***** effort. Do something well or don't do it at all, I personally don't care what it is. It's just that the very presence of the MBR creates expectations, reasonable or not.

Person 1: i don't wanna do anything lol i got a purple name
Person 2: i wanna do something but i think i'll just repeat it till someone else does it lol
Person 3: i wanna do something serious
Person 4: not feeling like it, but have you seen my purple name?
Person 5: tales of symphonia is pretty good
Marc:

 

[SleepyK]

so, let's gather the ones that wanna do something and do something

and ignore the ones that are saying there's no point or that we don't need to.

 

[Deleted member]

I agree with Marc here. The community as a whole definitely has very real expectations of this user group.

 

[Tero.]

so, let's gather the ones that wanna do something and do something

and ignore the ones that are saying there's no point or that we don't need to.

Sure and then let's get our project rejected by the leaders (who are no leaders per se because apparently the MBR doesn't need any leaders) because not enough people discussed it like with the last serious tier list attempt.
Oh and the let's release a project with like 5 people agreeing so people outside of the MBR will shut the **** up.

u c wut i did thar?

 

[SleepyK]

better 5 people than no people

 

[Skler]

Make it 6!

Skler's in da house.

 

[Tero.]

better 5 people than no people

Make it 6!

Skler's in da house.

You don't even know what you're talking about.
Well I guess SleepyK wasn't around and that time so you have a valid excuse.
Skler your post was just stupid.

 

[SleepyK]

i'm willing to learn the hard way

strong homo

if the threads get shut down then we can just make another or reconvene on aim or something.

private user groups whatever idc


i get that the whole previous attempt became a big catch-22. p silly.
it's apparent that
1) metagame has changed since final tier list
2) current placebo tier list is bunk
3) people want us to actually do something
4) because of the mbr's reputation, regardless of whether or not we're obligated to do something, those of us that feel like we should do something should do something.
5) some of us want to do something.
6) we're making very slow steps to actually doing something but no one is really coordinating anything. ideas are being tossed around back and forth
7) some people don't care so w/e they can not care and just throw in input. we can always ignore it
8) instead of getting upset let's just ask our non-leader leaders to keep x projects active for the ones that want to do something

i understand that i wasn't there but i am too lazy to go back and read old posts still can't fathom why the entire mbr would shoot down the idea of the "intelligent discussion regarding melee" that we're supposed to be having.

 

[Marc]

I'd coordinate, but I made a clear decision to not be too involved with this room. My suggestion is to do away with a lot of the debate and simply have all interested order the characters from 1-26. No endless viable-unviable word plays, just straight up ranking and discussing. Decide the tier gaps based on the voting. A simple and clean procedure. Oh, and this time set a clear treshold for the amount of votes so there's no arbitrary upper level cockblocking, like 40/50 individual votes. Send out PMs to the entire member list or as many as you can reach, make sure to appeal to M2K and Amsah (although both have posted their lists multiple times already).

 

[SleepyK]

wy clear decision

 

[Marc]

Because I already lead the BBR and was told to stay focused on that, rather than handling both rooms.

 

[SleepyK]

Ah, I see. Thanks for the consideration and ideas, at least!

 

[Skler]

Marc clearly knows his **** as far as making tier lists are concerned. I say we do things his way!

 

[N64]

I always liked that way better personally. Clean and easy, less chance of list going down in squabbles, takes everyone's opinions equally. Get everyone's ordering, take an average, split tiers where clear statistical gaps show, fancy up, present to public. Done.

I think we've had enough discussion up to this point anyways.

 

[Marc]

I just talked to Slhoka and he was enthusiastic about the idea, so maybe you can allow him a little time to set it up? It'll happen, don't worry.

 

[SleepyK]

How Europe saved the NTSC tier list

 

[Slhoka]

I just talked to Slhoka and he was enthusiastic about the idea, so maybe you can allow him a little time to set it up? It'll happen, don't worry.

Thank you.
I'm somewhat drunk right now, so I'll wait tomorrow to set up a voting system instead of doing something stupid tonight.