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Random Thought #2: Why aren't item based actions tied to only the grab button instead of the attack button?

Necro'lic

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
654
Another fun thing I like to think about.

Why is it whenever you are holding an item of some kind, you basically lose a lot of attacking options because the attack button throws the held item? Wouldn't it be best to allow attacking and replace grabbing with throwing the item? It's far less actions replaced and far more options kept intact while holding the items. This would be amazing for more item based characters like Peach/Daisy, Pac-Man, the Links, and technically Snake if it weren't for his Grenade throw being fuse based.

I feel like, unlike my last random thought about more varied jumps, this feels more like a no brainer for all sides, because it's very similar to the tilt/smash button sharing critique.
 

Orlando BCN

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 18, 2018
Messages
579
Location
Florida
Switch FC
SW-0933-8407-0408
Villager and Isabelle were created so that you didn’t have to worry about that.

Also, you can grab while holding items?
 

Xelrog

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
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1,136
Location
Battle Ground, WA
Switch FC
SW 2367 4933 3404
I don't think I'd be able to get used to it. I say this as someone who plays a whole lot of Peach/Daisy.
 

Shack

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
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466
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NYC
NNID
ShackShack
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Because it forces you to make a conscious decision on when to pull out the item. Along with it probably breaking the game link and megaman already had z drop infinites. So I would imagine many other item characters would have similar or crazy unfair options. Like imagine if samus/mew2/lucario could attack directly out of charging their shot? Might be fun mind games tho

Those items are also meant to be thrown, there is no purpose in being able to hold them and attack without throwing them like a beam sword. Right now it requires execution to be able to juggle items and attacks, so I'd say its kind of fair.
 

MBRedboy31

Smash Lord
Joined
May 5, 2018
Messages
1,431
It’s also probably a bit more intuitive for casual players to have it be on the A button rather than leaving them to figure out that the grab button is the only way to throw it. I know that tutorials exist, but not every first time player will be given an opportunity to watch the tutorial first. It’s thus probably similar to why they altered shooting items in Smash 4 onward to be automatically thrown when you press A again after they’re out of ammo, rather than requiring you to use the grab button to drop or throw them.

Still, it would be interesting to see what kinds of combos could be done if they were to do that change, even if IDK how well it’d be balanced.
 
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BuddyBaker52

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
24
IDK I prefer it as is with link. That way when you get in that playing catch mode with your opponent you can re grab the bomb with stuff like Nair while also covering your landing a bit. Also I do agree it would be sort of broken if you could do grounded attacks like smashes. since bomb conditions shield and being able to grab without pressing that extra button and being able to instantly throw bomb out of forward throw would just be too good lol
 

Necro'lic

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
654
IDK I prefer it as is with link. That way when you get in that playing catch mode with your opponent you can re grab the bomb with stuff like Nair while also covering your landing a bit.
That wouldn't go away with this. I only said to have grab button be the only way to throw items, not catch them.

Also I do agree it would be sort of broken if you could do grounded attacks like smashes. since bomb conditions shield and being able to grab without pressing that extra button and being able to instantly throw bomb out of forward throw would just be too good lol
Even with this, you wouldn't be able to grab right after a bomb throw. Not sure where you got that idea. All it would do is allow you to smash attack while holding the bomb, for one example, which is still beaten by shield.
 

BuddyBaker52

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
24
That wouldn't go away with this. I only said to have grab button be the only way to throw items, not catch them.



Even with this, you wouldn't be able to grab right after a bomb throw. Not sure where you got that idea. All it would do is allow you to smash attack while holding the bomb, for one example, which is still beaten by shield.
I just flat out misunderstood. I thought you meant getting rid of the mechanic all together. At work reading too fast lol I get what you mean now

Wait so you mean being able to hold the bomb indefinitely? And only releasing it with grab? That's insanely broken. And the function goes both ways. It's cool when your opponent picks up a bomb because then you know they can't smash you until they drop the bomb. And mean being able to do air moves without Zac or izac?

Edit: the more I think about this the more I realize I'm bias. This would hurt link more than help him.
 

BuddyBaker52

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
24
For one you would eliminate a lot of the mind games with bomb imo like I said. Plus with things as is you still have frame 1 z drop I'm pretty sure so out of shield jump izac Nair has an active hitbox on frame 4. Then there's the fact that at kill percents the bomb does enough hit stun to true combo up b. And with what you are saying to be able to freely smash and jab just seems really broken

Edit:I really wasn't thinking when I replied at first. For some reason in my brain I thought with your change you could grab while holding bomb lol this whole idea is insanely broken and I feel it's very intentional that this is not a mechanic. It would be really cool but for balancing purposes it make no sense. Like you said there would be way too much to gain with most characters. Imagine being able to throw an item out of jab. Too many characters have bad recoveries and it's frustrating how early you can get gimped. The game would be a mess. Too many combo possibilities. Not trying to be a troll or crap on your idea I think it's cool and have felt your sentiment more than once but it just doesn't work...
 
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TheYungLink

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 29, 2018
Messages
1,454
Whatever the case for it in Smash, I hated that it replaced the Fire button in Kid Icarus: Uprising because instead of strategically using it for later, I have to wait and move around until I decide I want to use it, otherwise I use the item just to be able to fire again.

It felt like a weird holdover from Sakurai's work on Smash that didn't fit at all in Kid Icarus: Uprising's story mode.
 

JiggyNinja

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
275
How so? There is literally nothing lost and everything gained with this change.
Items are powerful, and your proposal eliminates the biggest cost of using items. Holding onto an item is an extra threat, and keeping that threat means accepting a significant reduction in your other options. That's a valuation judgment that you need to make which adds depth to the game.

I'm not saying this change would be bad, you've just failed to convince me that it would be better instead of just different. There would certainly have to be significant rebalancing around the item spawners like Mega Man, Link, Peach, and K. Rool (it becomes a lot easier to keep his crown away if you can hold it for almost no penalty).
 
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