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Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar should both be banned
- Thread starter OverLade
- Start date
Akaku94
Smash Journeyman
Convince enough people that it should be legal, including enough TOs, and you should be good...
Mario Bros. really isn't broken, it's just so radically different than anything else in Brawl that it plays like a completely different game in many respects.
Mario Bros. really isn't broken, it's just so radically different than anything else in Brawl that it plays like a completely different game in many respects.
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
Except that hopping on one foot actually makes it nearly impossible to play at the same level as with both feet on the ground. It's more like... Nah, I actually can't think of an analogy for something that ups the difficulty slightly without actually penalizing anything.
There are a few contradictory nuts.
Akaku94
Smash Journeyman
BPC, an example would be if you're playing ping-pong and they tell you that you have to play with your other hand; if you're any good, you adapt and play slightly differently, but still well. If you can't adapt to a simple change in the rules, you probably weren't that good to start with...
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Assuming that you knew in advance that you would be told to play with the other hand, otherwise it doesn't make sense.
but that's dumb
theunabletable
Smash Lord
if I got to decide what meant being good at the game, I'd be able to say which rules would indicated who was bad, and who was good, too
the problem with debaters today are to that there are many discrepancies for very
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
And everyone was ambidextrous.
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
I thought one of the problem for Mario Bros. was the insanely high KB on the turtles and crabs?
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
No. This is not starting again.
T-block
B2B TST
Somebody revive the thread =)
Life
Smash Hero
Falco might be overcentralizing on Mario Bros, too.
I'd totally do a Mario Bros side event, but I wouldn't include it in the main event.
I'd totally do a Mario Bros side event, but I wouldn't include it in the main event.
Johnknight1
Upward and Forward, Positive and Persistent
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*tries to revive discussion*
Why ban either stage? There is nothing random on either stage, and both are run on a timer (well at least Rainbow Cruise; Brinstar's lava is easy to avoid). If you can't time it out, that's your own dang fault. I've memorized Rainbow Cruise, and if you don't know crap about the stage and you don't "ban it" on the stage screen, then you deserve to get ***** by me. It's simple natural selection my dear smashers.
Now if you can "prove" that it favors a certain character that is broken (a certain knight who is now URC-banned), then ban him from CP'ing it. Vice versa, if someone like Olimar sucks at the stage, either "ban it" on the stage select screen or ban anyone from CP'ing a Olimar on it (or just switch characters).
Unless a stage is found to have random effects, promote camping and stalling, or is overly large why should it be banned=???
Also, totally down for a Mario Bros. side event... even if I have probably only played that stage like 3 or 4 times...
Why ban either stage? There is nothing random on either stage, and both are run on a timer (well at least Rainbow Cruise; Brinstar's lava is easy to avoid). If you can't time it out, that's your own dang fault. I've memorized Rainbow Cruise, and if you don't know crap about the stage and you don't "ban it" on the stage screen, then you deserve to get ***** by me. It's simple natural selection my dear smashers.
Now if you can "prove" that it favors a certain character that is broken (a certain knight who is now URC-banned), then ban him from CP'ing it. Vice versa, if someone like Olimar sucks at the stage, either "ban it" on the stage select screen or ban anyone from CP'ing a Olimar on it (or just switch characters).
Unless a stage is found to have random effects, promote camping and stalling, or is overly large why should it be banned=???
Also, totally down for a Mario Bros. side event... even if I have probably only played that stage like 3 or 4 times...
Akaku94
Smash Journeyman
Ban a CP in certain matchups? You mean giving a free stage ban to one side just for having a character that sucks on a certain stage???
ぱみゅ
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I'm pretty sure he meant to use your stageban on them....
Akaku94
Smash Journeyman
seems pretty clear to me... using a stage ban is the right answer, but this is just ridiculous, scrubby thinking...
John12346
Smash Master
Ice Blocks and Blizzard will stop thrown projectiles, plus the ICs can have two at a time.
They can compete, just not to the extent that reflector users can.
They can compete, just not to the extent that reflector users can.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
I have tested ICs on this stage and they have mad potential because of the things John listed here.
But yeah, they still take a back-seat to characters with reflectors.
Characters with reflectors definitely aren't broken on this stage though, you just have to be more cautious with how you approach them.
Akaku94
Smash Journeyman
I would think Falco would be pretty dominant... not to the broken level, but it would definitely become his top CP imo... Reflector, chaingrabs with walkoffs...
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
I nearly beat three of the best ganons on EC, on one team, with team attack off on that stage with falco.
I don't play falco.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
That statement is about as valid as if I said that I beat M2K with Ganon while his controller was upside down.
Mario Bros. is a very hard stage to learn, it is almost a character by itself.
I'm willing to bet you just stayed in one place, shot lasers and used reflector when they tried to throw the hazards at you over and over? Yeah... that doesn't work against someone who actually knows how to play on the stage.
Mario Bros. is a very hard stage to learn, it is almost a character by itself.
I'm willing to bet you just stayed in one place, shot lasers and used reflector when they tried to throw the hazards at you over and over? Yeah... that doesn't work against someone who actually knows how to play on the stage.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Rainbow Cruise possibly.
I hate to be that guy, but I really disagree where Brinstar is concerned. I toil to understand why Japes, Port Town, and Norfair are banned when Brinstar is legal. The acid, as on-a-timer and avoidable as it may be, still takes up the entire stage except for a single small platform at certain points forcing characters into an aerial confrontation they might not have otherwise had. It's just not good design for a competitive stage. We've banned stages for much less pervasive things.
But whatever, I am apparently completely alone here.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Brinstar's acid is MAD predictable. I have no idea why people complain about it messing with momentum and ****, I can always tell when it is going to come up and to what level.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
So?
Predictable only matters IMO when you can completely avoid the obstacle by avoiding it. Even if the acid doesn't hit you, you have to completely change your strategy to avoid coming in contact with it and probably put yourself in a bad position.
I think there needs to be some kind of 5th amendment-style clause for stages. If the stage forces you to play against yourself to avoid the obstacles it has, then it should be banned.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
So... change your playstyle then, why is that an issue?
The acid is only up for a very short amount of time, and I can't think of a single viable character who can't avoid the opponent and get safely down to the ground when the acid rises and goes back down.
The acid is only up for a very short amount of time, and I can't think of a single viable character who can't avoid the opponent and get safely down to the ground when the acid rises and goes back down.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
I already told you what my issue is. If you don't think it's an issue, then we simply disagree. I think it's an issue when a stage has elements that are pervasive. I care more about this than any other issue including randomness, walk-offs, etc.
I like the stage element of brawl because it allows you to use platforms and terrain to a tactical advantage. The acid on brinstar and things like it don't really achieve that as much as they achieve tightly-compressed moments of strategic singularity in which after you are hit into the air, all you can do is repeatedly attempt to airdodge into a platform 3 squirtles in length until the acid goes down again. Is it predictable? Yes. Is it easy to avoid touching the acid? Arguably (but if you can show me a match on Brinstar where they avoid the acid the whole game I'll give you a cookie). I just don't see how either of those things are the issue. I don't really understand how stage selectiveness got to a point where we pick stages based on whether or not we can predict them. That's a factor, but I don't really understand how it became the factor.
I like the stage element of brawl because it allows you to use platforms and terrain to a tactical advantage. The acid on brinstar and things like it don't really achieve that as much as they achieve tightly-compressed moments of strategic singularity in which after you are hit into the air, all you can do is repeatedly attempt to airdodge into a platform 3 squirtles in length until the acid goes down again. Is it predictable? Yes. Is it easy to avoid touching the acid? Arguably (but if you can show me a match on Brinstar where they avoid the acid the whole game I'll give you a cookie). I just don't see how either of those things are the issue. I don't really understand how stage selectiveness got to a point where we pick stages based on whether or not we can predict them. That's a factor, but I don't really understand how it became the factor.
It's really a difference in philosophy.
I don't see a reason to differentiate the way the lava forces you to change your playstyle from the way the platforms on Battlefield force you to change your playstyle...one's not static, but it's predictable, so it shouldn't make a difference.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
You don't have to change your playstyle, because sans the lava, it's a pretty standard stage with a few gimmicks. You have to change your playstyle more on Final Destination.
On Brinstar, the changes you make are during bite-sized moments of artificially-created, profoundly strong pressure that are created (frequently) by the stage, not your opponent.
With that in mind, I want mostly consistency. If we're going to remove stages with random elements and keep ones that are consistent no matter what (sans walkoffs, which I guess are universally considered a little broken around here except on slopes by certain people) then many, many more stages need to be legal than are currently. It's not OK to pretend we have some kind of standard when we ban certain stages just 'cuz. If you want Brinstar legal because of a criteria that everyone else accepts but me, I can deal with that, but I think we should have a serious talk about other stages that have been banned over things that Brinstar still gets away with.
