R.O.B.'s new dthrow has me really split...

[NGW]

On the one hand, higher percentages and it chains into his usmash for a guaranteed kill. On the other, it's nowhere near as good at lower percents as it was in Brawl and for, where it was an amazing setup move. It feels like a fair trade off, especially with them seemingly finding balance between Brawl R.O.B., where he was best in the air and for R.O.B. where they kinda shifted him more towards being stronger on the ground, making him an overall stronger and better balanced character.

What do you guys think?

 

[Gotmilk0112]

Yeah, down-throw is essentially a kill throw now.....but we already had up-throw as a kill throw, but now that has been nerfed even more and doesn't kill until like 180%.

Forward throw is meh, back throw is meh, down throw doesn't combo into anything until 80%+, and up throw doesn't kill until 180%+

You'd think the character with the shortest grab range in the game would have better throws than this.

 

[Jee412]

I also agree with you... The only thing we can do at low percent is guess if he is gonna jump out of it or if he is gonna air dodge it. It's not as good as Smash 4 and it sucks...

At least we got other thing going for us like an earlier kill throw I guess (that is only if they dont mash the **** out of it)

 

[Gotmilk0112]

I've only played against CPU so far and they always instant-mash out of down throw and then perfect airdodge any aerial follow-up; it's nearly impossible to combo anything out of it below 100%.

It is possible to read the airdodge after, but that limits your follow-up options to nair, and that's IF the CPU airdodges instead of jumping.

 

[Green Spiny]

I like it - we just have to unlearn old R.O.B. UThrow is our new early combo tool, and DThrow comes later. Basically reversed from Smash 4.

UThrow -> Upwards FTilt at ~0%
UThrow -> Short hop FAir at ~30%
UThrow -> Full hop FAir / UAir at ~60%
DThrow -> Aerials / Arm Rotor / Smashes at ~90+%

...disclaimer, this is mostly from training mode since I don't have online yet. But 20+ damage from a grab at any percent, plus kills out of grab, seems solid. The Lv. 9 CPUs mash incredibly fast, making it hard to judge how early DThrow kills begin.

EDIT: After playing many matches online, I realize how inconsistent the UThrow setups are... it's rough. :/

 

[EGsmash]

What I don't get is how K Rool's throw can bury for so long, giving him an easy followup at any%, while ROB's bury practically insta-releases without any effort. I'd kill for some consistency in this game.

 

[Crome]

The new dthrow is weird to me, but I'm sure with some practice we can adjust to it. Definitely not a nerf though.

What I don't get is how K Rool's throw can bury for so long, giving him an easy followup at any%, while ROB's bury practically insta-releases without any effort. I'd kill for some consistency in this game.

The amount of time people stay buried is move dependent for balancing reasons.

 

[NGW]

I don't really see it as a nerf, it feels more like a step sidewise. I can't call it a straight buff simply because it does remove options from him in some ways while strengthening him on others. It's a perfectly acceptable change and I've definitely adapted it as one of my primary means of getting a KO in.

 

[EGsmash]

The new dthrow is weird to me, but I'm sure with some practice we can adjust to it. Definitely not a nerf though.


The amount of time people stay buried is move dependent for balancing reasons.

You would think so, yeah. But there's nothing 'balanced' about this game right now.

 

[Eskimo776]

Personally I like upthrow-Fair at 0% and I switch to downthrow- sh Up air around 40-50%.

Upthrow is frustrating at higher percentages, probably DI but there seems like a lot of horizontal projection from the move, so I prefer putting them into the ground and catching their jump with U Air's multiple strikes. N Air is nice too for a good pop up

For the kill I stick to Down throw-Upsmash over 100%, though skilled opponents can dodge it. Downsmash on small characters like Pichu because I've had Upsmash whiff

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Any time you're uncertain whether you can catch an opponent coming out of bury (basically every time), use utilt first. You'll either:
a) Miss at low percents because they popped out and air dodged/jumped away, but now they're airborne and you get to keep stage advantage (I've yet to be punished for this. Even if they can, they've got a big vertical hit box to clank on before hitting you)
b) Catch them right as they're popping out, which combos into sh-uair
c) Miss because they're still buried. If this happens, you can almost guarantee a usmash or dsmash will connect if you use it right away. sh-uair is even more certain, but imo a smash is a better option because you're not really putting yourself at risk.

Basically, utilt makes for a great stopgap safe option. This is by no means the most optimal option, but it's a safe one that works some of the time and hurts none of the time (so far as I've seen). Think of utilt like the 'training wheels' by which you can judge other, better options out of bury (though it might really be the best option from ~35-75%)

It's not worse, it just has different set-ups and most of those are reads or 50/50s. It's going to take some study to get the most out of it. Considering they removed it along with Koo-pa and Diddy shenanigans, I'll gladly accept the trade.

 

[osby]

You would think so, yeah. But there's nothing 'balanced' about this game right now.

Which Smash game has, really?

 

[Gotmilk0112]

After a bit more testing, it seems that the "bury" from down throw is not a regular bury effect. Using two controllers, I used downthrow and didn't touch anything on the 2nd controller, the character just instantly broke out like usual.

So for whatever reason, ROB has his own special bury effect that gets auto-mashed based on percent.

 

[EGsmash]

Which Smash game has, really?

Maybe 'balanced' was the wrong word. What I should have said is that this game is horribly, laughably lopsided. Case in point - Most other bury moves last for days, giving characters with already tons of options even more options and even some free kills. ROB, already a character with fewer options, gets a not-really-bury-bury and maybe, possibly a kill at higher %, but also maybe not because smashes don't buffer well out of throws.

Edit: Just wanted to add without making a new post...
I've had some time to play with the Dthrow in matches, and it's really not reliable or even safe. Characters can start mashing out as soon as they get grabbed, which means that by the time they get buried they can almost instantly pop up and act before ROB's FAF, making the move truly punishable at anything below 80-100% (Ganondorf's DownB and Dedede's Dair come to mind). Even at 100%, players can mash out so fast as to make Usmash whiff - Dthrow really only true combos into Usmash at around 130% or so, maybe higher. At lesser %, Dthrow is really only useful if you catch an opponent off guard which won't happen if your opponent is trained to mash all grabs. At Kill % it's still a good move for finishing opponents, but not nearly as safe or effective as its previous incarnation. I just watched Sekai whiff an Usmash on Corrin at 190%. Like holy crap, this move is pathetic.

Edit2:
I was labbing some combos out of Dthrow. If you down-tilt the opponent then it prevents the pop-up animation and has a chance to trip. Dtilt x2 and you can chain grab, which seems to work all the way up to 80-120%, depending on the opponent. While this was horribly fun and has amazing potential, my spirits were crushed when I confirmed that any bit of mashing in the slightest will cause the first Dtilt to miss until such % that it no longer combos into a chain grab, and by then your only options are Uair or Usmash. Unfortunately this will only have any viability against extreme newbies who don't know what mashing is, and feels like a huge waste of potential. However, I recommend you try it in training mode because it's really fun to pull off, even if it doesn't have any viability in match whatsoever.

Final Verdict: No beep-boop, unsafe under 80%, fewer reliable followup options for ROB with MANY options for the opponent, worst bury move in the game, ROB's other throws are much worse = massive nerf

 

[MrElectroG64]

ROB's Dthrow is actually a lot better than you think, once you get used to how different it is. It actually has a lot of options. Here's a few I've learned over time, with each one coming after a Dthrow:

• 0%: fullhop Uair (if they don't move at all)
• 0%: dash left/right - shorthop - Uair
• ~30%: Utilt, or Shorthop - Uair, depending on the character
• ~70%: Utilt only (may be able to chain into itself, depending on the character)
• 100% and up: Usmash. If the character is too small, Dsmash may work better. Also, depending on the character, you may need to keep Utilting until around 120%