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R.O.B. Matchup Analysis #1 - Diddy Kong

GwJ

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We have a matchup thread for R.O.B.'s matchups, but I think it is time we start start narrowing down on and focusing on the big matchups, so I'm going to go down the list of top characters and once we have a satisfactory discussion, we'll move on to the next character. The results of this discussion will be posted in the R.O.B. Matchup Thread.

Post matchup notes relating to Diddy Kong
 
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FalKoopa

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I've only played a few Diddys, but you want to keep your distance from him. D-throw to U-air is as nasty as you might have heard.

Bananas also are better at ground control than Gyros, because of the tripping.
 

BoTastic!

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I think Gyro should be used a lot more than Laser in this match up. I've been thinking about using rob in this match up over Mario, but I've still been struggling. At least ROB kills diddy easier than Mario does.
 

Mister Eric

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For now, just remember that you can influence what followup you get hit by when being d-throwed. You don't have to die at some %s. You can choose to eat a forward air instead. Play around with it. I think I heard that DI'ing into him at very low %s can be good to avoid combos. But I'm not sure about that.

I got to play M2K and Denti's Diddy recently so I'll post some thoughts on it soon.
 
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Diddy Kong

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R.O.B. really, really hates our Side B I noticed. It's just extremely easy to hit R.O.B. with it. He's like most heavyweights, unprepared to deal with Diddy's insane mobility plus options. Ideal height to SH some F Airs as well, and R.O.B.'s recovery is easily gimpable by shooting peanuts and following up with D Air, F Air or Side B. I'll say it's easily 7-3 for Diddy.
 

Mister Eric

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R.O.B. really, really hates our Side B I noticed. It's just extremely easy to hit R.O.B. with it. He's like most heavyweights, unprepared to deal with Diddy's insane mobility plus options. Ideal height to SH some F Airs as well, and R.O.B.'s recovery is easily gimpable by shooting peanuts and following up with D Air, F Air or Side B. I'll say it's easily 7-3 for Diddy.
I'd like to hope you've played against bad robs
 

B_Bech

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One word: gimp. It's that simple. Don't be afraid to go off edge and punish.
 

Diddy Kong

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Well, maybe I exagerated that post. Cause R.O.B. does have the Gyro and that thing works well to disturb Diddy's overall flow due to it's speed and damage. Lasers also work, but Diddy can too easily approach with full jumped Side B's. Off stage, R.O.B. has the advantage with F Air, and he generally shouldn't die too soon (not even against U Air) but he just soaks up damage against Diddy. That's why I think Diddy has a clear advanage of at least 6-4.
 

FalKoopa

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R.O.B. really, really hates our Side B I noticed. It's just extremely easy to hit R.O.B. with it. He's like most heavyweights, unprepared to deal with Diddy's insane mobility plus options. Ideal height to SH some F Airs as well, and R.O.B.'s recovery is easily gimpable by shooting peanuts and following up with D Air, F Air or Side B. I'll say it's easily 7-3 for Diddy.
It's mostly because of the insane priority on most of Diddy's attacks. Being aggressive gets you punished, not that ROB is good at that anyway. Playing the patient game with Gyros and Lasers is the only option.
 

Diddy Kong

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I'd be aware of Diddy's Side B though, it goes through most of what R.O.B. can defend himself with, unless it's Gyro. I think D Smash can catch Diddy offguard to, but it's just the weight and height of R.O.B. plus real bad mobility that makes him an easy prey for Diddy.
 

Dissent

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I've fought Teevee's ROB and a few others;

DSmash works well in this matchup.
Going offstage versus Diddy can be challenging for ROB, he's a very big target for our monkey flip latch and all it takes is one failed read on your part to be caught.
Just play campy and safe, it works very well now since gyro kills bananas on the ground/in the air.
Don't fail your throw to uair combos, and if you're unsure of what the best option is when Diddy is above you, just uair anyways. It's so good~

Also, thoughts; Does uair collide with our barrels when under you if we happen to be forced a low recovery? If so, oh jeeze.
 

GwJ

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Coming back to this, can we get a rating on this matchup for the main thread?
 

Mister Eric

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**************************************************************************
Disclaimer: I'm garbage at doing MU write-ups.
Not a lot of practice, and my thoughts go a little bit everywhere.
I type how I think. I'm getting better tho.
**************************************************************************
I think I've played enough Diddys at this point to have a say:

Ratio: 55:45 Diddy's favor.

We won't win the forward air war, or the mobility war. But we don't have to.

Like any player and their main, they all come with personalities. You're going to have the grab hungry diddys, the fair spamming diddys, the I-can't-be-anywhere-without-my-banana diddys, and you'll have those diddys who will be well balanced in all of these areas.

There have been some days where I can't fathom beating diddy.
https://twitter.com/MisterbeepEric/status/563523098742652928

And I hope a lot of us aren't sinking into that mindset like I have before. Let's save that mindset for the Sheik MU ;) I kid, Sheik isn't that bad. Just harder than this one imo.

So what do we have going for us:

Nair
Nair can be used in this MU just as it can in most of our other MUs, except that we should be wary of a few things. First, if diddy challenges our falling nair with an uair, the diddy will most likely win unless you space it so well that he whiffs. Perhaps he just messed up honestly. What we can do is bait out diddy attempting to punish us by either hovering in our up b at a safe distance or even by not trying to be offensive with a fast falling nair and just space to miss him. And if he tries to run in and cover you, you'll most likely win the exchange. Just be careful when trying to recover back to the stage with nair. If diddy doesn't realize he can challenge with u air, then have at it. Do what you do. Land > jab, land > roll, land > grab. It's basic MU stuff from there. Just see what the player is doing and react accordingly.

Nair can also be used to zone. This one's my fave. With all the gyro love that we be giving him, why not spam just as many SH nairs? If he rolls, you retreat with the nair and tag him with it. If he's behind you when you hit him, turn around and get a sh fair follow up. After the fair, hang back a little. Perhaps land and go into shield as he might land with u air. Or space away after the fair and gyro his landing. It's all you =] This applies to a lot of MUs btw. And you know Diddy's are thirsty for the roll > grab option. This works well with the grab hungry diddys.

What if we nair his up b? If we are a ways above him while he's recovering, it's our best option to contest with his recovery. Odds are, we stage spike him.

Gyro
Need I say more? Maybe not but I'm gonna.
Gyro that monkey flip.
Gyro that grounded banana.
Gyro that forward air spamming. Oh his fair cancelled it out? How about another.
Turnaround gyro into the stage as he recovers. Gyro can bounce off the stage and hit his recovery.
B-rev gyro cancel to mix up recovery bc you know we don't like being uaired.
Gyro's a beautiful thing. Use it and abuse it.

Uair
Yo we got one too.
We can stuff those high rising side bs all day if we see them coming.
Ever landed with uair before? I love to. It either leads to an utilt, a fair, a dash attack. It all depends on where they pop out at. But diddy is at a height where we can get away with it. Trying throwing a few in here and there. Don't do it in tourney without getting used to it tho.

Laser
Run away grounded b-rev laser can combat diddy side b
Laser him as he goes for his banana (whether when he's jumping to z catch it, or when he's trying to pick it up. Tho I like gyroing him when he's trying to get it off the ground).

Diddy do's:
Keep a gyro out as much as possible. Diddy loves to stay mobile. It's in your best interest to disrupt that. Now don't do this mindlessly, as a gyro can contest with side b, add coverage as you're landing to the ground and can be a pest to his banana game.
Stay mobile yourself. No we aren't as mobile as Diddy, but don't play scared. A scared ROB is just begging for standard grabs and command grabs. Also, don't just move to move. Move to stay evasive, to remain hard to read. Don't get ahead of yourself and waste your dbl jump just hopping around.
Play Diddy some yourself! Learn how he moves, the distances he travels (for example, diddy has not only 2 side b variations, but also 2 distances he can travel out of side b)


Diddy don'ts:
Don't stay still. Explained in the do's section.
Don't jump mindlessly at him when he has a banana. Don't just nair in place, expecting a roll. Or at him, trying to make him shield drop. He won't. You will get tripped.
If you are at the ledge, be very mindful of your options here. Especially if the diddy has a banana. You will most definitely eat an f smash if you descide to get up, get up attack, or roll from the ledge while the diddy has a banana planted in front of him or in his hand.
Don't underestimate Diddy's fsmash or forward air. Fair is super safe. Diddy's fsmash second swing reaches a decent distance further than his first. Don't get caught slippin (harhar)
Don't be fooled that a diddy will just empty land when he is close to touching the ground but has yet to toss out an aerial. His u air would love to have a word with you.
Also, the diddy can mix you up and empty land, then follow up with a grab. Have a game plan each and every time.
Don't be fooled by side b lag. A lot of the time the diddy will do it high enough to where he can throw out an aerial is you run in to punish. Try a gyro, try a powershield. Test it out.
Don't miss your up air! If you do, you will eat one and most likely die at certain %s. Not fun =[. Bait air dodges out of down throw if you're uncertain. Or if he has a habit of jumping out of the downthrow to u air string, then you should still be able to connect if you choose not to bait since everyone's airdodge comes out faster than their jump. Play around with those scenarios.
If you are standing still and a diddy is side b'ing at you and you're not rdy to gyro him, or he's too far off the ground, you can either:
A.) Short hop air dodge in place > land > grab
B.) Roll into diddy, which will turn you around, then gyro. (I haven't fully tested this yet. But it works in my head.)


Following a lot of these don'ts well help you keep up with diddy's pace. Most ppl do more stuff wrong than right in this MU atm. That's why I have more don'ts than do's.

Hope this helps <3
 
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Lizard_Buttock

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Does Diddy's legendary fall from grace affect this MU at all? I feel like it's bad enough that this MU should be closer to 50/50.
 

PUK

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ROB wins, diddy struggles to get in, does less damage, kill later, etc...
 

GwJ

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The MU assuredly is different now, but I don't have enough post-post-patch Diddy experience to comment. I'm going to post this back on the Diddy boards and see what they have to say.
 

Mister Eric

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Yea...no real 1.0.8 experience yet. played wifi vs player 1. fair still hurts. fsmash still hurts. idk tho. im also inexperienced in this MU nowadays
 

Crome

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MU wasnt too horrible pre nerf, I'd assume its marginally better and we probably win.
 

Crome

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What stages are recommend in this MU? Is stealing his banana and camping (when we have the lead) a good & safe idea? How do you DI his U/D throws?

Just lost to a diddy 6-1, and these were some of the problems I had.
 
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