R.I.P. Kjell Anders "Nappy" Peterson.

[Ken Neth]

Ah I see what it was supposed to mean now. I figured it was referring to the trolling. Like "If you see someone trolling do the same as them" type of thing.

The new wording gets rid of that confusion, however.

 

[AfroQT]

I disagree.

Link and Zelda have far less going for them.

Zelda has fast kill moves
Link has projectiles
Ganon/Falcon have none of those.
They have to hope you go braindead for 3 seconds to kill you.

EDIT:
Zelda even has a decent sidestep bait (Sidestep Dsmash OOOHOHOHOOO).
If ganon sidesteps, i can switch controllers and still come back in time to Ftilt him.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Zelda has fast kill moves
Link has projectiles
Ganon/Falcon have none of those.
They have to hope you go braindead for 3 seconds to kill you.

EDIT:
Zelda even has a decent sidestep bait (Sidestep Dsmash OOOHOHOHOOO).
If ganon sidesteps, i can switch controllers and still come back in time to Ftilt him.

ya link has projectiles but he easily has the worst recovery other than pikminless Olimar and one Iceclimber.
aka easily gimped

 

[nevershootme]

soo yea.. imagine nsm pulling off slick choreographed hip hop dance moves... in reality, i suck at it lolz (was practicing a routine for try outs to be in a dance crew at my school)

 

[SuSa]

Zelda has fast kill moves
Link has projectiles
Ganon/Falcon have none of those.
They have to hope you go braindead for 3 seconds to kill you.

EDIT:
Zelda even has a decent sidestep bait (Sidestep Dsmash OOOHOHOHOOO).
If ganon sidesteps, i can switch controllers and still come back in time to Ftilt him.

People shouldn't fall for bait.
Projectiles aren't hard to powershield in Brawl. Learn the safe zones if you are still getting punished for shielding them.
Zelda's moves can be DI'd out of (except for IIRC either fsmash or usmash... one not the other. Can't remember which)

Ganon at least has ways to SETUP for his kill moves. (side-B > fsmash/stomp) and his grab release > wizkick isn't laughable either. (if he gets a grab. lawl)

 

[choknater]

O_o you can grab release wiz kick?

 

[So Fatal]

guys gotta chillllzz

 

[AfroQT]

People shouldn't fall for bait.
Projectiles aren't hard to powershield in Brawl. Learn the safe zones if you are still getting punished for shielding them.
Zelda's moves can be DI'd out of (except for IIRC either fsmash or usmash... one not the other. Can't remember which)

Ganon at least has ways to SETUP for his kill moves. (side-B > fsmash/stomp) and his grab release > wizkick isn't laughable either. (if he gets a grab. lawl)

If people shouldnt fall for bait, snake would be the worst character in the game.
Snake literally thrives off scaring people in rolling or acting a certain way in a certain situation, then punishing them. Zelda can sidestep 70% of the moves in the game and punish with Dsmash which kills....

Ganon has no setups for kills. Side B is terrible, its extremely slow and very easy to dodge on REACTION. If ganon grabs you...lol.

Link still has projectiles for annoyance.

 

[Lawz.]

If people shouldnt fall for bait, snake would be the worst character in the game.
Snake literally thrives off scaring people in rolling or acting a certain way in a certain situation, then punishing them. Zelda can sidestep 70% of the moves in the game and punish with Dsmash which kills....

Ganon has no setups for kills. Side B is terrible, its extremely slow and very easy to dodge on REACTION. If ganon grabs you...lol.

Link still has projectiles for annoyance.

Link's projectiles aren't exactly good, it's sad to say but it's true. Although if the Link is smart he will stay mobile while doing it. And I refuse to believe that Link is the worst. Whoever said that is SOOOOOOOO wrong.

Link is bad but not the worst. At least he has the option to somewhat camp and he can space much better than Jiggs, Ganon, and Falcon He can actually kill as well as live to insane percents, if he doesn't get gimped which is surprisingly possible. While I doubt Link will be higher than Jiggs I know for a fact that he is better than Falcon and Ganon.


And I'm posting in here because I'm picking up Snake and because I happened to see something about Link.

 

[SuSa]

@AfroBaiting, frame traps, and literally removing safe options are all completely different. I'd expect you to know that.
And annoyance isn't really a "plus".... It's just annoying, does not mean it's not entirely possible to deal with.

@lawz.
I used to be a Link main... I only ever faced 1 person who knew the matchup (even all the other Link's I played didn't know the matchup. And back then, neither did I). That's what made me change my main. Good thing they are far and few.


Nothing Link has is safe on block.

So if you are spacing anything besides second hit fair (shouldn't have gotten that far into it), or nair/bair (back of shield), and zair your opponents doing it wrong. (Not saying Ganon doesn't suffer the same problem)

So you have 4 moves, that all have to be spaced perfectly to even be safe. And even then, they aren't safe.

Find opponent who knows safe zones against projectiles, and I dare you to take a single stock off them.

Link is utter garbage. It's the fact so many in this game are poor against people with projectiles and disjoints. Very few people actually have matchup experience.

 

[Lawz.]

@AfroBaiting, frame traps, and literally removing safe options are all completely different. I'd expect you to know that.
And annoyance isn't really a "plus".... It's just annoying, does not mean it's not entirely possible to deal with.

@lawz.
I used to be a Link main... I only ever faced 1 person who knew the matchup (even all the other Link's I played didn't know the matchup. And back then, neither did I). That's what made me change my main. Good thing they are far and few.


Nothing Link has is safe on block.

So if you are spacing anything besides second hit fair (shouldn't have gotten that far into it), or nair/bair (back of shield), and zair your opponents doing it wrong. (Not saying Ganon doesn't suffer the same problem)

So you have 4 moves, that all have to be spaced perfectly to even be safe. And even then, they aren't safe.

Find opponent who knows safe zones against projectiles, and I dare you to take a single stock off them.

Link is utter garbage. It's the fact so many in this game are poor against people with projectiles and disjoints. Very few people actually have matchup experience.

Well I never said that Link really had anything safe on block. If it sounded like that in my post then shame on me.

It's just that while Link doesn't really have anything safe on block, he still can space better than both Ganon and Falcon as well as not having to approaching in a good amount of match ups while both Ganon and Falcon will always have to approach. But Link is still garbage anyway =/

And yes I remember you using Link a while back. Do you still even practice with him XD

 

[SuSa]

I would strongly argue stronger then Ganon, worse then Falcon. Falcon has some pretty strong disjoints.

I'll give you that Link can force approaches (at least in general) because Ganon/Falcon can't (can't really do it with a lack of a projectile...lol)

Only an idiot would argue against that. =p

I practice with everyone still. Still a random main at heart.

 

[Darkshadow7827]

Hello Lawz. I tried playing Link a couple times, but I couldn't get used to the feel for him. I'm guessing there aren't that many Link mains out there.

 

[Lawz.]

Hello Lawz. I tried playing Link a couple times, but I couldn't get used to the feel for him. I'm guessing there aren't that many Link mains out there.

No there really aren't many at all . You can't blame people for not using such a horrendous character. Of course nobody knows the match up except for like maybe a very small handful of people. But I can't rely on people not knowing it for long because I'll still need a character that can make it to the top.

I've been practicing Snake for a good amount of time. While I doubt it's ready for tournament play I guess I can't say it's terrible.

 

[SuSa]

When I get around to bother making pictures and max range of projectiles, I'll be making a guide of safe zones.

(read: "Block here. You get punished. Block here, here or here. You either avoid all ability to be punished, you get hit but still can punish, or you will be able to punish because they are still in lag")

I feel some (read: many top players) have a feel for safe zones, but can't really visualize them or really believe they exist.... knowing safe zones is the only way I've been able to beat any Samus as Ganon (read: 80-20 matchup, I shouldn't be winning no matter what <_< let this time of personal experience slip through.. simply because I don't FEEL like mentioning my theory crafting.. let's just say knowing safe zones fix up Ganon's hardest part in this matchup. Avoiding projectiles and zair and frame traps caused by them) (Samus: Possible as Ganon. Zamus: Hard counters Ganon T_T)

EDIT:
Lawl. The more I talk about Ganon the lower and lower he gets in my mind. xD I'll probably settle on lower D tier by the time I'm done. lawl

 

[AfroQT]

@AfroBaiting, frame traps, and literally removing safe options are all completely different. I'd expect you to know that.
And annoyance isn't really a "plus".... It's just annoying, does not mean it's not entirely possible to deal with.

I definitely know that, but every character relys on baits, and snake has plenty of them. Just because you baited someone into rolling, moving a certain way and you hit them doesnt mean you removed all safe options. Very rarely is there ever a situation where all safe options are covered, and very rarely does snake do that. Snake is nothing but baits and setups into baits....Saying people shouldnt fall for baits is saying that the entire aspect that fighting games are built upon shouldnt work. Baiting people to do 1 thing so you can punish it, is entirely how 2d fighters work when it comes to footsies (...if you know what that is) and the wakeup game. Ever heard of baiting a DP? Or baiting a jump? It happens all the time EVEN AT TOP LEVEL PLAY, its the entire aspect that 2d fighters work on, doing one thing so you can punish another, acting like your gonna do this then really do that. Baiting is literally how you do damage to someone.

Frame traps and removing safe options are completely different, and brawl has no frame traps lol. If there are, they are pathetic in terms of REAL frame traps. If you want i can give you examples of REAL frame traps.

 

[luke_atyeo]

and his grab release > wizkick isn't laughable either. (if he gets a grab. lawl)

susa must be in a bad mood because he laughs at things that arnt laughable.

 

[DanGR]

Hate to detract from the convo, but can you edgehog an opponent after dthrowing at the very edge of the stage? I mean, can you get on the ledge before your opponent can?

Also, I found out a couple weeks ago that you could blow yourself up with a grenade and DI straight into the stage and tech it at about 0-20%. I can't get it down anymore though. I forgot how to do it. :O (Not that it has any apparent uses at the moment. It's just fun to do. :D)

 

[Nic64]

@AfroBaiting

lmao we need to name some awesome Snake thing after this so every time a Snake does it you can be like he's afrobaiting

 

[∫unk]

susa play me on wifi

 

[xLeafybug =D]

I play super-duper aggro on all of bottom tier characters, just so that I don't get bored.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I play super-duper aggro on all of bottom tier characters, just so that I don't get bored.

my friend dose that too and it bugs me when he can win sometimes against my main.

 

[Tennet]

SUSA LOOK!

It's 6/4 according to the good Ikes like Kirk, San, when I last checked. You know, the ones that actually beat Snakes in tournaments. >_> Ike can do stuff to Snake. Any uncooked grenades throw at us = free DACIT if we so choose that option. Snakedashing towards us = great opportunity to land a jab or utilt depending on the distance. Snake stuck on his cypher recovering anywhere remotely close to the stage = free hit for Ike with any aerial that isn't Nair. Ike's tilts have the same KOing power as Snake's (one is 2% later at KOing, the other KOs 1% sooner >_>) Both are killing each other quickly with gimps and flat out KOs. Both can screw each other over with CPs. Ike is fairly easy to nail with the tilts due to only having one attack that outspeeds them, Snake is Jab canceling bait due to his size and weight (lol at Kirk Jab 1 locking a Snake against a wall at Green Greens)

Honestly, if Snake didn't have the insane, broken tilts, I say the match would be 5-5. But he has the tilts, so it's 6:4 Snake's favor.

/simple analyzation of the match-up

=O This might cheer you up

 

[Underload]

Alrighty, so the first matchup I'm going to tackle is ICs (it hasn't been discussed anyways)

The thread should be up in about 5.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Alrighty, so the first matchup I'm going to tackle is ICs (it hasn't been discussed anyways)

The thread should be up in about 5.

5? 5 what days, weeks, minutes?

 

[SuSa]

I already know the Ike boards use DACIT, most boards do nowadays.

 

[CRASHiC]

What is DACIT?
(goes back to lurking)

 

[Tennet]

I already know the Ike boards use DACIT, most boards do nowadays.

orly, didn't know people used it lol

 

[Lawz.]

What is DACIT?
(goes back to lurking)

I believe it's called "Dash Attack Cancelled Item Toss" or something like that. Or maybe not.

 

[SuSa]

Dash Attack Canceled Item Throw/Toss (You can weak throw it, I call a weak throw a toss. Correct term is throw however)

 

[abit_rusty]

If anyone would like to write a matchup summary for Snake, Dedede, or Marth that I can use in the MU thread, please say so.

 

[Darkshadow7827]

I was going to ask if it was the same thing as glide tossing, but I forgot that glide tossing is shield cancelled, not dash attack cancelled. Can snake do this? His DA is pretty long. Nevermind, I wouldn't think it'd be as useful since snake has more control over his nades with grenade strip?

 

[Tennet]

glide tossing is roll canceled XD

 

[Darkshadow7827]

Ah, my bad. That's what I meant Silly me, I feel stupid and nooby now.

 

[Tennet]

Naw, don't.

crap i keep forgetting to put in my color...

 

[∫unk]

susa play me on wifi wtf did you not see my post last page

im me junkinthtrunk

i started playing

for some chars its legit

others not so much

 

[SuSa]

Cool story bro, I don't really play WiFi.

Got a tourney tomorrow.

 

[IxxI]

Agh. My memory card got deleted by that ****tarded kid. I stayed up till 4:30 A.M. doing homework that night. I was sick too. FML.

 

[Tennet]

I've been favoring Falco lately so you guys don't get me rockin the snake icon yet.

 

[IxxI]

I have an IC icon. I'm eaten here.