[Question] Kill moves with Link?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Rango the Mercenary

The Mercenary
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
1,530
Location
Georgia
NNID
OgnarPliskin
3DS FC
2320-6400-7280
I lost a match with Link because he couldn't get the job done. DSmash can kill and is a little faster, but not fast enough and can get punished by a rolling opponent. Dash attack has startup frames that make it predictable, Spin Attack has startup frames so people rolling into shield can block and punish it. Dair is useless in this game, and FSmash bounces the enemy on the first hit so it can whiff the second. Ftilt seems practical, but doesn't have enough kill power. If your enemy has good recovery, gimping with arrows won't be enough.

If anyone can tell me a better way to kill with Link that's surefire, I'd be glad to jot it down in my memory. I've been wanting to believe that Link is one of the better characters in this game, but it's pretty hard to land a kill.
 
D

Deleted member 269706

Guest
It's really all about timing with all of those moves. I found that the sprinting attack (press A while running) tends to do the trick for me so long as you can get the right distance and timing. The other thing to try with the FSmash is using it from a distance where the first swing will miss, but the second will hit. It's hard to get right, but when you figure it out...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ArdeS

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
447
Location
Lake Forest, CA (949)
Link's Utilt is surprisingly strong when enemies get to high percentages. It's quick and tough to punish. A good setup is one or two standing jabs then Utilt/Dsmash.

Good recoveries can be thwarted with a combination of bombs and your boomerang. I find arrows to be the least useful unless you can get a fully charged one off and land a hit. Mix up your game: throw bombs up as they're recovering, predict their upward or downward movement with your boomerang and throw it in that direction instead of straight, etc.

Dair is far from useless and has great kill potential. If you're stuck meteor smashing your enemies every time you use it, perhaps try using it earlier so it can send them up and away instead. It can protect you on your way to the ground if you're sent flying upward too; just don't fast-fall it and you should land efficiently. Finally, don't be afraid to get aggressive and go for that meteor smash with Dair off-stage!
 

Rango the Mercenary

The Mercenary
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
1,530
Location
Georgia
NNID
OgnarPliskin
3DS FC
2320-6400-7280
Dair is good for punishing rolls at least, not to mention safe on shield if you get away. I can live with that much at least. But I hate how Spin Attack and DSmash are easily blocked. Dair is definitely not as strong as in Brawl or Melee either. But I do a lot of mixups. It's fun to camp with Link.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
I lost a match with Link because he couldn't get the job done. DSmash can kill and is a little faster, but not fast enough and can get punished by a rolling opponent. Dash attack has startup frames that make it predictable, Spin Attack has startup frames so people rolling into shield can block and punish it. Dair is useless in this game, and FSmash bounces the enemy on the first hit so it can whiff the second. Ftilt seems practical, but doesn't have enough kill power. If your enemy has good recovery, gimping with arrows won't be enough.

If anyone can tell me a better way to kill with Link that's surefire, I'd be glad to jot it down in my memory. I've been wanting to believe that Link is one of the better characters in this game, but it's pretty hard to land a kill.
Confirm your kills with Jab first. Jab's knockback scales with percent, making it stronger for hit confirms as your opponent approaches KO percents.

Jab -> D-smash/U-tilt are both pretty easy to hit. You can even Jab -> F-smash if you read your opponent mashing airdodge.

U-smash OOS is kinda underrated. Starts up pretty fast and does a lot of damage + able to KO reasonably. Keep that option in mind whenever your opponent is trying to rush you down.
 
Last edited:

InfiniteTripping

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
396
When I played the crap out of him in the demo, I was using his dash attack as a kill move. I thought it was better than any of his smash attacks.
 

CostLow

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
388
Location
Germany
3DS FC
2509-2293-9367
I'll have to get the numbers, but Nintendo says that his dash attack is about as powerful as a smash attack (which is probably why it's spammed so much in sm4sh).
 

InfiniteTripping

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
396
I'll have to get the numbers, but Nintendo says that his dash attack is about as powerful as a smash attack (which is probably why it's spammed so much in sm4sh).
I think it's more powerful than his forward Smash, and harder to escape from.
 

Goobgoyle

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
52
NNID
RWolffe
3DS FC
3394-3566-2944
I play a very aggressive Link, personally. The move I use most is regards to my kills is his dash attack. It covers good distance, and it is indeed stronger than his FSmash (Maybe not in regards to percent damage, but if you factor in every aspect of the move versus the FSmash, it is a much stronger strike). Another move I like to kill with is his USmash, simply due to it's intense speed. When your opponent is getting back on stage, a lot of the time the hitbox will snag them as they're coming up. I can't tell you how many times I've killed with it. The other kill move I can think of off the top of my head is the 2nd hit of the DSmash. It's knockback is so sexy <3
 

KenMeister

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
1,122
NNID
KenMeister
3DS FC
3609-1224-8364
Down Smash out of shield is a god send. Kills early, very fast, and a better substitute for Spin attack.
 

Zelkam

Resident Wizard
Premium
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
881
Location
Knoxville, TN
Switch FC
1068-8431-0431
The first swing of Fsmash has decent knockback if you connect with just the tip of the sword. That's an option if you're having trouble landing the second hit and you're confident in your spacing.
 

Cattribal

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 3, 2014
Messages
6
One of my favorites is to charge an upsmash while my Gale Boomerang is behind someone, and then unleash it just as they get pulled in. With Link, I find the vast majority of my kills are off the top of the screen, rather than the sides.

I'm looking forward to getting some custom matches in, so I can practice gimping people with meteor bombs.
 

Rango the Mercenary

The Mercenary
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
1,530
Location
Georgia
NNID
OgnarPliskin
3DS FC
2320-6400-7280
So the thing with Link is that I camp with him almost exclusively. I don't know if I'm really supposed to do this as he has plenty of useful tools with nair, Ftilt, and DSmash. But most of my game is mixing up patterns with Bow, Boomerang, and Bombs. Am I doing it right or should I add more?
 

BigHairyFart

Salty Supreme
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
866
Location
Kansas City, MO
NNID
JackAzzMcTittles
So the thing with Link is that I camp with him almost exclusively. I don't know if I'm really supposed to do this as he has plenty of useful tools with nair, Ftilt, and DSmash. But most of my game is mixing up patterns with Bow, Boomerang, and Bombs. Am I doing it right or should I add more?
I'd say that's fine as his up close game still isn't that great. Link is and always will be a zoning character.
 

CostLow

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
388
Location
Germany
3DS FC
2509-2293-9367
So the thing with Link is that I camp with him almost exclusively. I don't know if I'm really supposed to do this as he has plenty of useful tools with nair, Ftilt, and DSmash. But most of my game is mixing up patterns with Bow, Boomerang, and Bombs. Am I doing it right or should I add more?
You're asking if your play-style is correct. I don't think that's the issue. If you've played that way and you've been more successful than another way then apparently that way matches your play-style better. I do pretty well stay about mid range most of the time. Of course, those guys that can punish your predictable attacks just love guys like Link getting close so that's when I go almost full camp mode. It doesn't feel right to me but it's my best option sometimes. If you find that certain characters or players are breaking through your camping wall then maybe just be ready with something different for those times.

TL;DR -- Play your way if it's working. Change it up if not.
 

seaN`

Shadow Link
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
2,165
So the thing with Link is that I camp with him almost exclusively. I don't know if I'm really supposed to do this as he has plenty of useful tools with nair, Ftilt, and DSmash. But most of my game is mixing up patterns with Bow, Boomerang, and Bombs. Am I doing it right or should I add more?
in neutral game you should be using boomerang, bombs, zair, nair, jabs, dsmash, fsmash1

to answer your original question.

universal kill moves
utilt -floaty slayer
usmash - forward roll punish
upthrow - floaty slayer
upair - air dodge punish (easier with tap jump off)
dsmash1 - forward roll punish (i havent found a consistent way to kill with dsmash2 yet)
fsmash1 - back roll punish (it has a tight timing)
fsmash2 - i use it as a frame trap. if they try to press buttons after a blocked tipper fsmash1 hit them with fsmash2

edge guarding
nair - dropzone nair DJ nair wrecks a lot of characters
fair - at higher %s fair1 will wreck most of the cast
bair - ledge fall bair DJ nair gimps a lot of characters
dair - this move is worthless to kill off the top, use it to spike

IMO his best kill move is up-B OoS, it's such a good punish and comes out so quickly that most people don't even DI it.
 

KenMeister

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
1,122
NNID
KenMeister
3DS FC
3609-1224-8364
in neutral game you should be using boomerang, bombs, zair, nair, jabs, dsmash, fsmash1

to answer your original question.

universal kill moves
utilt -floaty slayer
usmash - forward roll punish
upthrow - floaty slayer
upair - air dodge punish (easier with tap jump off)
dsmash1 - forward roll punish (i havent found a consistent way to kill with dsmash2 yet)
fsmash1 - back roll punish (it has a tight timing)
fsmash2 - i use it as a frame trap. if they try to press buttons after a blocked tipper fsmash1 hit them with fsmash2

edge guarding
nair - dropzone nair DJ nair wrecks a lot of characters
fair - at higher %s fair1 will wreck most of the cast
bair - ledge fall bair DJ nair gimps a lot of characters
dair - this move is worthless to kill off the top, use it to spike

IMO his best kill move is up-B OoS, it's such a good punish and comes out so quickly that most people don't even DI it.
I dunno, I kinda don't like his up-B OoS, it's still slow like Brawl's, so I often get shielded when using, and the payoff often isn't worth it to me. I prefer Dsmash OoS to be honest.
 

A_Phoenix_Down

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
852
Really? I think his F-Smash is amazing in this game. It's like Toon Link's which has always been better. Plus, the first hit has a tipper now.

The bounce on the first hit doesn't bounce THAT high (at least until percents around 120) but even with that, it's a capable kill move at 85% +. And if the percent is too high wait a frame for the guy to come down or just simply Up-B (which is highly capable of killing at 120+)

D-Air METEORS when right above someone now. Personally I never liked using it on someone who was way below me anyway. I liked to bunny hop into D-air to turn it into a quick combo but with meteor, Link's got much better off-stage capabilities.

F-tilt is only practical for damage and spacing to follow up with a boomerang or even a grab if at lower percents.

Dash attack is definitely an all or nothing attack. Heavy hit but very slow and easy to jump over the opponent. From what ive seen, Usually people see it coming so they preemptively block. But lf that's the case, I would just dash into a grab.

From what ive been seeing, Link users seem to not really have trouble getting KO's.... BUT they spend way too much time on shooting out projectiles. So they end up getting a kill at crazy percents like 180, and by the time they get the kill they already have lost a stock more than their opponent.

But this is from all the videos I've seen at least.
 
Last edited:

BWill

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
1
I mainly use uptilt and and ftilt to kill. They always seem to be my freshest moves. Its harder to kill in general in this game.
 

supercoolmayo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
69
3DS FC
3351-5095-7782
The first swing of Fsmash has decent knockback if you connect with just the tip of the sword. That's an option if you're having trouble landing the second hit and you're confident in your spacing.
So the foward smash only does KO if I hit the enemy at the tip of sword?

I've been trying to do that, but they keep floating up, and The second part of the smash keeps missing
 

Zelkam

Resident Wizard
Premium
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
881
Location
Knoxville, TN
Switch FC
1068-8431-0431
So the foward smash only does KO if I hit the enemy at the tip of sword?

I've been trying to do that, but they keep floating up, and The second part of the smash keeps missing
The First swing of Link's Fsmash only has knockback potential if you connect with the very tip of the sword, yes. Just like if you were trying to get tippers with Marth. If you're wanting to combo the first swing into the second swing then you're gonna want to hit closer to the hilt of the sword.
 

Goobgoyle

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
52
NNID
RWolffe
3DS FC
3394-3566-2944
Pretty much what Zelkam said. The Fsmash has this weird vacuum to it when you hit closer to the hilt (What would be considered the thickest portion of the sword), but is REALLY stubborn at high %. Most of the time the first hit will either bounce them too high or too far for the second hit to connect. Which is why it is usually more practical to master the spacing and whiff the first hit intentionally. The second hit kills at a much lower percent than the second. It's... Godly.
 

seaN`

Shadow Link
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
2,165
I dunno, I kinda don't like his up-B OoS, it's still slow like Brawl's, so I often get shielded when using, and the payoff often isn't worth it to me. I prefer Dsmash OoS to be honest.
because shield stun is so low you can punish almost anything with up-b OoS. you technically can't dsmash OoS, you have to wait until shield stun ends then you can dsmash. it's not really the same thing.

the problem with brawl's up-b was its lack of killing power, that's not a problem in this game

Really? I think his F-Smash is amazing in this game. It's like Toon Link's which has always been better. Plus, the first hit has a tipper now.
TL's fsmash can be SDI'd out of on reaction every time. although hitting with fsmash1,2 is easier now, people that know the match up well shouldn't ever get hit by it.

So the foward smash only does KO if I hit the enemy at the tip of sword?

I've been trying to do that, but they keep floating up, and The second part of the smash keeps missing
to hit fsmash1,2 you want to hit fsmash1 on the middle of his sword. if you're too close they can SDI up and toward you and escape the combo. also spacing it too close can make the second swing totally whiff. if you space fsmash1 too well, you tipper them, which is still pretty good.
 
Last edited:

TheBuzzSaw

Young Link Extraordinaire
Moderator
Premium
GRimer
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
10,474
I've been playing a ton of Link in For Glory mode. He's so good. ^_^

It really is in your best interest not to exclusively camp. Use your projectiles as a framework for amazing approaches. If you are waiting for the opponent to recover, throw a bomb straight up. It almost always comes back down at the right time (especially if the opponent is hanging there on the ledge). Boomerang into sliding up-smash is good. Down-smash is amazing against rollers. You don't need to anticipate at all. Either you will hit them, or the opponent rolls and gets hit by the second hit.

Down-air has been greatly nerfed since previous installments, but it is still very effective. The fact that you do not have to time an attack makes it a solid choice.
 

A_Phoenix_Down

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
852
TL's fsmash can be SDI'd out of on reaction every time. although hitting with fsmash1,2 is easier now, people that know the match up well shouldn't ever get hit by it.
I feel like TL's height has a lot to do with that. I never really liked TL anyway. I just always thought his F-Smash would suit Link much better.

But to the OP, if anything, Link's got MORE kill moves at his disposal. Keep playing him some more. If you find yourself relying too much on projectiles, try to cut back. Like I said, I've noticed a lot of Link players making that same mistake on videos I've watched. Play him a little more and I bet you'll find it
 
Last edited:

MagmarFire

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
266
Location
Michigan
NNID
MagmarFire
3DS FC
3737-9549-8452
F-tilt is only practical for damage and spacing to follow up with a boomerang or even a grab if at lower percents.
I have to disagree here. His Ftilt has pretty dang good kill power, has good arcing reach (can hit not just from the front but from a bit towards the top, as well), is reasonably quick, and doesn't have as much cooldown lag (and, thus, not as punishable) compared to some of his other kill moves. I myself, for instance, like to fake people out in my approach by pivot walking (or whatever it's called) into an Ftilt. Might be a bit predictable, but it's not like I'm leaving myself open as much as I would be if I were to, say, attempt an Fsmash or Dair.
 

LightLelouch89

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
40
I lost a match with Link because he couldn't get the job done. DSmash can kill and is a little faster, but not fast enough and can get punished by a rolling opponent. Dash attack has startup frames that make it predictable, Spin Attack has startup frames so people rolling into shield can block and punish it. Dair is useless in this game, and FSmash bounces the enemy on the first hit so it can whiff the second. Ftilt seems practical, but doesn't have enough kill power. If your enemy has good recovery, gimping with arrows won't be enough.

If anyone can tell me a better way to kill with Link that's surefire, I'd be glad to jot it down in my memory. I've been wanting to believe that Link is one of the better characters in this game, but it's pretty hard to land a kill.
That has and always will be Link's weakness in comparison to most of other characters. We Link mains have to work for our victories. I don't even bother using the FSmash unless I know for certain that I'll land it. Same goes for spin attack.

I disagree on the arrows. With the right timing, you can literally sit there and juggle your opponent from the other side of the stage and he tries desperately to recover. Even more fun when you pull this off against someone who thinks they're safe just because they picked a character who can reflect projectiles.
 
Last edited:

supercoolmayo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
69
3DS FC
3351-5095-7782
I've been having problems with this too. I pretty much have to wait to get my opponents into 120% range before I use a ftilt to kill them
 

CostLow

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
388
Location
Germany
3DS FC
2509-2293-9367
Honestly, Link is one of those characters who has little reason to worry about how to kill. I mean, he's pretty stinkin' powerful. My biggest issue is with reading my opponent. I've got to admit that ever since I started punishing rolling more my win % of FG has sky rocketed. I never realized just how dangerous all that rolling was until I made that adjustment to my game. I'd say that against the average player, the down-smash is probably the easiest kill move to utilize.
 

koloblican11763

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
161
Location
Nevada
fSmash tippers on the first hit, space it.
fTilt has amazing kill power, just try and use it on the edge of the stage if you can.
uSmash is great but risky due to the frame count.
Tipped dSmash kills on the side, not tipped kills at a higher percent.
Arrows kill like half the cast when sniping them with full charges off stage.
uAir is freaking ridiculous for kills and when sweetspoted does it much quicker.
fAir can kill with the first hit but destroys with the second hit.

I don't see the problem...
 

MrFrigid

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
101
Location
SoVa
Switch FC
3259-2884-2790
Am I the only one who sees the significance of up special being an EPIC kill move?
 

koloblican11763

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
161
Location
Nevada
Am I the only one who sees the significance of up special being an EPIC kill move?
I have been playing melee Link for a long time and the reason why uB was so used in melee was because it had ridiculous knockback, a downward spike, and comes out almost instantaneously. It is practically the only reason Link can get kills on space animals.

But this is not melee.

In Smash 4, while effective for punishing players who roll too predictably off ledge or do not sweetspot ledge, there are generally always alternatives which can preform a better function for Link. Unless you are in someones head, it is unlikely you are going to be able to hit the required nearly-fully-charged uB it takes to kill at the middle percents. That having been said, once people get better at the game and start truly punishing bad play, I would not be surprised to see the uB being used more frequently as a more flashy kill move instead of BnB uTilt, uSmash, or dSmash.
 

MrFrigid

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
101
Location
SoVa
Switch FC
3259-2884-2790
I have been playing melee Link for a long time and the reason why uB was so used in melee was because it had ridiculous knockback, a downward spike, and comes out almost instantaneously. It is practically the only reason Link can get kills on space animals.

But this is not melee.

In Smash 4, while effective for punishing players who roll too predictably off ledge or do not sweetspot ledge, there are generally always alternatives which can preform a better function for Link. Unless you are in someones head, it is unlikely you are going to be able to hit the required nearly-fully-charged uB it takes to kill at the middle percents. That having been said, once people get better at the game and start truly punishing bad play, I would not be surprised to see the uB being used more frequently as a more flashy kill move instead of BnB uTilt, uSmash, or dSmash.

Harshhhhhhhhh. Up special is GREAT for kills during mindgames at 100+, usually kills ~80 if they're in the air, and is good for edgeguarding. + as you said it comes out almost instantaneously. But hey that's just from my experiences :p
 

koloblican11763

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
161
Location
Nevada
Harshhhhhhhhh. Up special is GREAT for kills during mindgames at 100+, usually kills ~80 if they're in the air, and is good for edgeguarding. + as you said it comes out almost instantaneously. But hey that's just from my experiences :p
There is a lot larger of a following of newer players do uB in the air for a kill. I am just so used to melee that I look at that and pull away instantaneously. The ability of your opponent to DI away or out of multihits, airdodge, or hit you as you are uBing is far too risky to me, but if it is effective for you then it is effective.

To be clear I was refering to uB in Melee as coming out near instantaneous. In Smash 4 it is much more like a smash where there is always those initial start up frames which add a lot more lag to the move, so it makes it much more unsafe, and due to wake-up shielding being so powerful in this game uBing is even less safe.

A more effective edgeguard is the old standby, nAir. I am surprised to see it still trades very well in this game with most uB's from other characters. Beyond that if someone doesn't sweetspot properly, fTilt is incredibly effective which much more knockback.

Edit: At 115% on a non-vectoring opponent Mario both fTilt and a non-charged uB do about the same knockback, but that is also only tested with uB's sweetspot (ie the very first possible hit, and also the most powerful). Due to this and personal experience I feel fTilt is a superior roll punish in this game.
 
Last edited:

MrFrigid

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
101
Location
SoVa
Switch FC
3259-2884-2790
^ I agree with this, which is why I don't RELY on uBing, but using it every once in a while where the opponent least expects it works wonders. I play a lot of players in FG, and most of them aren't able to get out of uB (in the air)...

also, wake up shielding ?
 
Last edited:

koloblican11763

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
161
Location
Nevada
also, wake up shielding ?
If you were to get hit and tech an attack you are "waking up" during your recovery. It comes from the Street Fighter thing (which is also in Smash) where if you fall and allow your character to just flat fall without movement they lie on the ground as if asleep. The invincibility frames in all wake up wither it be a tech roll, neutral tech, or even just regular wake up in this game are numerous, so you have time to almost freely shield if they don't time their punish properly.
 

MrFrigid

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
101
Location
SoVa
Switch FC
3259-2884-2790
I tend to space it/time it so it specifically fks up wakeupshielders. Also I use the run>slide>uB, or just ko after a string of attacks that get finished with an uB that starts like 60% of sage height above ground.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom