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PYP mafia! Game over!

Z25

Pokemon Illusionist
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I am super happy with my play this game. I was able to correctly townread a lot of people early on, and sniffed out Seph being mafia despite keeping my vote on Thirdkoopa, which could have caused D1 to go very differently. Who knows how the game would have went if Third went first. Luckily we didn't have to worry about that. I'm pretty happy with the Moydow shot as well, and then although we didn't get the perfect game PoE was relatively painless and even with the Nabe mislynch and the Fanny mis-shot, we got Shish relatively quickly.

Thirdkoopa Thirdkoopa - Great job Day 1 dealing with the pressure and the momentum of your wagon. You didn't push for Seph as the alternative until you were convinced he was scum and then your interactions with him were very level-headed and logical. You also handled the points against you very well and had a big part to play in getting Seph lynched over yourself. From then on you became a powerful force for town. You were basically universally-trusted and used both Night convos and the thread very well to coordinate with town, locate the PRs, scumhunt, and reason out who the remaining mafia were. The amount of thought and effort you put into the game was very apparent and it helped ease my mind, at least, about your dedication to finding scum.

@Pokechu - I wish you had been around a bit more later in the game, but your intuition to trust Thirdkoopa and swing the lynch to Seph last minute was a huge moment for town a absolutely a contributing factor to our strong victory. Props for that, as well as for your townread on Nabe in spite of many others (myself included) turning on him. I respect the confidence you play with, for sure. I'm not sure if it has or will come back to haunt you that you stick to early reads like the Nabe one, but you were right this time so I can't criticize if it works! Good stuff.

Vult Redux Vult Redux - Your reads this game were solid and you played your role super well. Sniffing out Seph so quick was impressive, and I respect the confidence you exuded in your reads that made other people want to follow your lead. You certainly played a part in the Seph lynch just as Third and Pokechu did, and then you clutched N1 by saving yourself. It would have been hype if you got Moydow with that too like you were considering, but I think J was a logical choice. Unfortunate that he was our jailer but I guess we didn't need it, haha. Later on, trusting Thirdkoopa and claiming to him benefited both of us and allowed town to coordinate our reads and our night actions in private which really utilized the power of Night PMs. Super well played, man.

@Shishœ - You put up a really good fight as the last mafioso. I sincerely doubted the Day 1 bus because of how close the two wagons were and how easy it would have been for people to hop on the Thirdkoopa wagon to save Seph. I suppose Seph being the goon made bussing him a better option than I considered, but props for pulling it off rather convincingly. The way you joined based on Vult's case and made a legitimate push for lynching Seph was well-played, and kept suspicion off you for a decent time until it became evident that bussing occurred at which point you were unfortunately the first choice. I think you coasted a little bit off of D1 and weren't around as much (or at least not actively contributing) in later phases which caused opinions of you to deteriorate, but I understand being demotivated after your two partners die and your kill gets redirected to the inactive before any of town's strong players could even be killed off. I think the way the game ended was inevitable and did really well considering the circumstances.

#HBC | ѕoup #HBC | ѕoup - What do I gotta do to make you townread meeeee? Your reads were sick this game, too. Loved that we vibed on Moydow and most things in general and I guess I'm glad you could work with me even if you'll never trust me. Ironic that you unvoted Shishoe to try for a perfect game when going through with that lynch would've given it to us. Regardless, you played the game well and your reaction to Moydow's death made everyone (including mafia) think you were the dayvig and you saved me from getting gunned down by them, so thanks! I maintain that trying to swing Moydow D1 was too little too late but it was the correct read and definitely made mafia quake in their boots, so props regardless. Glad you replaced in!

#HBC | Nabe #HBC | Nabe - Sorry for doubting you, Nabey. I liked what you were doing early game with your scumhunting and your approach to getting information. If it weren't for my stubbornness in thinking mafia didn't bus Seph, I probably wouldn't have scumread you. I definitely looked back at your game with some heavy confirmation bias after my shot on Moydow yielded scum because I thought it would be convenient if mafia coordinated their D1 votes and the game wrapped itself up in a nice little bow. Obviously that didn't happen, but your posts before you got lynched were very good and you put a lot of effort into stuff despite going down which I appreciate. I also love your posting style, your back and forth over word salads with Fanny was very entertaining lmao.

Dooplissity Dooplissity - You did a great job turning around public opinion on a sketchy slot and I genuinely appreciated your thoughts and insight in the final Day phase. You made it really easy to reconsider your slot and want to go for Shish instead, and that's not easy to do having to play catch-up and deal with someone else's mess. Also respect for being wary of Thirdkoopa and going for a fakeclaim gambit. I think admitting it was a fake-out was the right move, but no harm done in going for it.

Fandangox Fandangox - Sorry for shooting you, man! I was so convinced you were mafia off of PoE because I wasn't ready to look at potential bussers of Seph. I was also mistaken in part of my case against you when I said you lied about your Moydow read. Looking back again I confirmed that you were actually consistent about not liking the slot, it just wasn't one of your stronger scumreads. Even if your reads weren't the most accurate, I think you did a good job of asking questions to understand why people did certain things, even if you already townread them. I may have thought they seemed like innocuous questions in the game because they didn't seem to lead anywhere, but in hindsight they were good and I'm sure the answers helped clear stuff up for you. I don't even blame you for tunneling Nabe like you did because your points on him were reasonable. Even D1 I townread you because I saw the genuine intent behind your push, so good stuff!

Z25 Z25 - I was mistaken when I said Vult convinced you Seph was scum. You were actually the first person to verbalize disdain for him, like you said, and Vult only convinced you to put your vote there. Good stuff for sniffing that out, and I think the fact that you sat your vote on that wagon helped a lot not only in getting the lynch, but also in keeping yourself in town's good books for most of the game. Your willingness to concede when people disagreed with your D0 votes was also admirable, as well as having the confidence to be the first to lay down votes for roles.

Moydow Moydow - Sorry for shooting you without giving you a proper chance to respond to pressure on you! :p I think my mind was made up either way, though. Seph getting lynched didn't help you because I really was heavily scrutinizing everyone on the Thirdkoopa wagon once Seph flipped scum. A case of unfortunate circumstances for you because I think if you got the kills off on me/Vult/soup like you wanted you had a decent chance to live for a long time. As it turned out, I was dayvig and lucked out in that you didn't kill or roleblock me so I was able to deny you that opportunity. Good game, though!

Sephiroths Masamune Sephiroths Masamune - You caught a bad break by having people on your back so early. Vult was confident in his read and started the momentum that made you have to play on your back foot for all of Day 1. I understand how hard it is to play when you're getting pressure in the early game, and all your interactions were examined under a microscope as a result. I think the AtE/defensiveness backfired a bit in that a lot of the playerlist didn't buy it and instead wanted to lynch you more for your responses and general demeanor. It worked on some people, though, and with a different playerlist I could totally see people reconsidering and siding with you instead. Bad luck but overall I think you played well under the circumstances. That vote was crazy close which is a testament to the effort you put in because Thirdkoopa was definitely swinging for the fences, too.

@#HBC | J - MVP for sure. :p

Maven89 Maven89 , @Fire Emblemier - Shame you guys had to replace out, but I'm okay with it because your replacements both did a great job being townie when it counted haha! For real though, I don't have much to comment on for Fire, but to Maven: I think your play was solid. A lot of people (myself included) got a bit hung up on your interactions with Seph but that's not your fault and I remember really vibing with your thoughts early game. Shame stuff got in the way of you seeing the game to completion, but good job nonetheless!

giraffelasergun giraffelasergun - Thanks for hosting! I had a lot of fun. I appreciated the thought you put into sorting out NAR and answering questions about role interactions. You went above and beyond with the added answer about Tracker targeting mafia performing two actions. Not going to lie, I absolutely metagamed the mod statements, and when you publicly posted the questions and responses I definitely surmised that the roles asked about were likely in play, since it was either mafia asking or the person who had the role, itself. The Tracker question threw me off because I knew the Jailer was dead and I was the Dayvig, so there couldn't be both a BD and a Tracker, so the red herring question served its purpose. You also posted my daykill flips really fast, so thanks for that! :)
Nice thoughts! It’s been pretty fun. Hope to see you join more games down the line!
 

Z25

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Also I kind of knew who the power roles were I just never bothered to look at who third didn’t suspect lol. But I figured they werent throwing the prs in the line of Fire
 

Kantrip

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Oh yeah, I feel like it became kind of obvious who we were based on Koopa publicly stating he both knew our identities and we knew each other's. It didn't end up mattering but I definitely went from one of his top 3 suspects going into Night 2 to never brought up as an option again afterwards haha.
 

Thirdkoopa

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Also I kind of knew who the power roles were I just never bothered to look at who third didn’t suspect lol. But I figured they werent throwing the prs in the line of Fire
I actually did lol. If you'd ask me who I said was scum, I would have said that Kantrip was on my lynch list and that I think Vult was more likely to bus than you and Chu.

I didn't bus Kantrip as hard as I should have... funny that as a townie, I'm talking about bussing :p
 

Fandangox

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Oh look I changed this
oh **** yeah, you're one of the old folks from GS too, how can I forget?

i know riddle and ryker both migrated over here at one point too
I didnt really play any Mafia there so thats probably why lol

I wish I haven't done this badly for my comeback game, but what can one do lol

Also Third telling me in Night convos that he suspected Kantrip was the only reason I went back to see if there was anything to push Kantrip about just to try that angle
 

giraffelasergun

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giraffelasergun giraffelasergun - Thanks for hosting! I had a lot of fun. I appreciated the thought you put into sorting out NAR and answering questions about role interactions. You went above and beyond with the added answer about Tracker targeting mafia performing two actions. Not going to lie, I absolutely metagamed the mod statements, and when you publicly posted the questions and responses I definitely surmised that the roles asked about were likely in play, since it was either mafia asking or the person who had the role, itself. The Tracker question threw me off because I knew the Jailer was dead and I was the Dayvig, so there couldn't be both a BD and a Tracker, so the red herring question served its purpose. You also posted my daykill flips really fast, so thanks for that! :)
Thanks dude! The town having a lot of questions definitely made sure I was really sure with how I wanted role resolution to work and I'm glad that showed. I think only the mafia, power roles, and TK asked questions about how roles worked to me during the night so for the most part the questions were only about roles in the game, and I didn't want to give town an advantage if my posts made it seem like certain town roles were in the game. Also I liked that you used the dayvig as basically a way to accelerate the lynch, I think most people are a little cocky when they are vigilantes and shoot whoever they think is the most scum, not the people who had the most votes at the time of the lynch.

I think this has already been said but that seph lynch day 1 was super clutch and this game probably would have gone on much longer without it.

Also, things I learned in this game I'm going to keep in mind for a future game:
Night communication is busted in a protown way, will probably not use it again.
If I were to do a PYP again I would probably try to balance it so that some of the mafia/town roles aren't too strong by themselves. Flip hider either needs to be weaker or everything else needs to be stronger otherwise it'll never get picked. Also tempted to run a PYP game where there are much more power roles but I think that would need heavy balancing.
Tempted to make a game where everyone is a dayvig now tbh.
If people want individual critiques I am happy to give them out!

(also shoutout to BarDulL BarDulL for being a homie in the graveyard chat)
 

Kantrip

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I think the fact that Dayvig didn't end the Day made it very strong, as it essentially DID give us two lynches which is super sweet as it's the equivalent of denying Mafia a kill each time it is used this way. It helped that I was also using it on targets I personally found scummy but I wasn't about to go wild wild west gunslinging on people that others weren't suspecting haha.

I agree that Night communication was strong for town. It felt like cheating to utilize it at all, never mind to coordinate PRs in private!
 

giraffelasergun

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I think the fact that Dayvig didn't end the Day made it very strong, as it essentially DID give us two lynches which is super sweet as it's the equivalent of denying Mafia a kill each time it is used this way. It helped that I was also using it on targets I personally found scummy but I wasn't about to go wild wild west gunslinging on people that others weren't suspecting haha.

I agree that Night communication was strong for town. It felt like cheating to utilize it at all, never mind to coordinate PRs in private!

When people asked me if dayvig ended the day I thought "Why would it end the day?" But yes, town getting two lynches per mafia night kill is over powered and I would probably add a caveat to day vigs in future games. Or just not have day vigs because they're just kind of broken in general
 

Kantrip

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As cool as dayvigs are (and I know you were convinced to change the vig to a dayvig in the first place), I think a regular night vig would have suited the setup better because then they could be influenced by all other night actions (Tracker, Bus Driver, Jailer, Roleblocker) and increase the overall interactivity between roles. Also this would inherently nerf the role because there's the chance town accidentally messes with it and blocks (or even redirects) the shot. Plus the concept of an anonymous shot happening during the Day is very immersion-breaking :p
 

#HBC | Nabe

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giraffelasergun giraffelasergun
Night communication can be leveraged really well by scum, too. It's hard to track it back through individual PMs, but The Phantom Mafia was won in the Night phase IMO, and Night talk drew so much blood in Westeros Mafia. Thinking back to AiB, on one occasion as scum (Friendly Neighbourhood Mafia?) I made poor SRB trust me so much at Night that he happily quickvoted the other townie in LyLo.

Back then when a OMGUS was known as a Tizoc vote
Taking me back, wow.
 
D

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I think Night talk works best in Closed Setups where Town isn't aware of all the variables so Scum can lie with more leverage. Im our games, Night talks usually revolved around Claims trades with those we trust so Mafia could sneak fakeclaims early on.
 

Z25

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An all vig game you say?

“I’m a day vig, he’s a day vig, are there any more day vigs I should know about?”
 

Sephiroths Masamune

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So a few things to point out. I didn't realize how big of a jerk I was until day 2. (Sorry for being ignorant of my effect on others) I feel pretty bad about causing contention and I want to specifically apologize to a few of you privately. I do feel sorry if I caused people to not play the game because of my play and I wish that you would ignore my particularly bad attitude and continue playing the game you love. If anyone would like they can contact me personally as well if they wish to patch things up.
 

BarDulL

Town Vampire
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There was definitely some old meta mixed in there among possibly some other stuff, but I know you're a superb dude at heart. Ultimately you were scum trying to misrepresent players which gets dirty and can be difficult to deal with, and DGames has changed a lot since you returned.
 

Maven89

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Hope you weren't talking about me, because all you did was throw me off my mafia game, making me doubt myself, lose track and eventually fall behind. Real life I didn't care one bit that I was called dumb, it was just my ability to play mafia that got taken aback. I'm not sure why that happened, because I learned to play where the average way to say you disagreed was to call the person garbage. I think it's just the nicer tone Nzoners forced on us, and being confronted with old-normal mafia aggression that threw me off.
 

BarDulL

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Hope you weren't talking about me, because all you did was throw me off my mafia game, making me doubt myself, lose track and eventually fall behind. Real life I didn't care one bit that I was called dumb, it was just my ability to play mafia that got taken aback.
I think there is merit in maintaining tact in Diplomacy Games (and in general). Not claiming that I'm perfect about this either...lol. It's just good form and keeps people motivated and interested in playing the game. That said, I don't think this is an NZone specific issue, but a social one.

I think this does segue into a great discussion though about Mafia etiquette, as well as what is appropriate and what is not. Would love to see opinions on this one way or the other.

Edit: thanks nabe for putting my spelling on blast
 
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#HBC | Nabe

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I think this does segway into a great discussion though about Mafia etiquette, as well as what is appropriate and what is not. Would love to see opinions on this one way or the other.
Get out of here with that tact nonsense. I don't have the time to list all the uncountable things wrong with this strawman AtE excuse for a post, but they're so obviously scummy that you'll lynch him anyway. And, I mean, "segway"? More like "segue", scum.

Vote: Bard

Reasoning? He's scum, and we lynch scum in these games. Body him. Body. Him. He's absolutely, unmistakably going to flip scum. Maven on town flip.
 

BarDulL

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Get out of here with that tact nonsense. I don't have the time to list all the uncountable things wrong with this strawman AtE excuse for a post, but they're so obviously scummy that you'll lynch him anyway. And, I mean, "segway"? More like "segue", scum.

Vote: Bard

Reasoning? He's scum, and we lynch scum in these games. Body him. Body. Him. He's absolutely, unmistakably going to flip scum. Maven on town flip.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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Being an asshole is fun and can be useful if used properly, but the problem with old meta is that too many people tried to emulate this style with poor results. Far too many imitators the like of marshy/ryker/kuzi (more smarmy than agressive) without understanding the method.

That being said, I didn't find anything wrong with Seph's behavior and was quite mild from what I've seen in here
 
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Thirdkoopa

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I get the chance to now comment on this; horrah.

Seph, I think having an aggressive playstyle is fine - If your playstyle is to pressure the hell out of people and set up lynches in order to find out who's waiting for an opportunity as scum (or even as town). I just wasn't comfortable at all with the insults (towards Z25 in particular), especially since everyone doesn't have the same experience playing Mafia; we're all already busy people with jobs, school, etc. The best tl;dr for everyone is to keep the arguments at the point, not the person.

I hope at least Z25 Z25 sees this.

Also I know people are citing DGames of old, and I wasn't around much for it (though I do know some of the players. I very much have familiarity with Ryker) but things change; I'm not even talking about just here or us growing up - Life changes. The world as we know it has changed from 5 years ago till now and it's only going to continue to change. I used to be much worse when I was younger. You can look at my post history (unfortunately) if you don't believe me.

Being an ******* is fun and can be useful if used properly, but the problem with old meta is that too many people tried to emulate this style with poor results. Far too many imitators the like of marshy/ryker/kuzi (more smarmy than agressive) without understanding the method.

That being said, I didn't find anything wrong with Seph's behavior and was quite mild from what I've seen in here
Isn't this contradictory to your "Gosh why is this game so tense" post? :p
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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Isn't this contradictory to your "Gosh why is this game so tense" post? :p
No, because none of the players inhibiting that behavior in this game know how to use it properly, which if anything makes my point even stronger
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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Write a guide on "How to play like Ryker"
1) Make unassuming statements towards players (bonus points for condescension)
2) Generate discussion about yourself
3) Jerk off to the attention while promising to catch-up so the town can be blessed by your presence
4) Wipe off the residue from your leg and open up random.org to choose which player you will death tunnel
5) If town, repeat until you hit mafia or lose the game. If mafia, continue process until no town are left
 
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Fandangox

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Oh look I changed this
1) Make unassuming statements towards players (bonus points for condescension)
2) Generate discussion about yourself
3) Jerk off to the attention while promising to catch-up so the town can be blessed by your presence
4) Wipe off the residue from your leg and open up random.org to choose which player you will death tunnel
5) If town, repeat until you hit mafia or lose the game. If mafia, continue process until no town are left
6) Post a picture of Kamina posing every 2 pages, or for every 10 post you make.
 

BarDulL

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Imagine if he became the greatest player we’ve ever seen by mere happenstance of getting tagged incorrectly and then playing with us
 
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#HBC | marshy

wanted for 3rd degree swag
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fun fact

it had been over a year since bus driver posted on this forum altogether before the random accidental tagging summon

lol
 
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