Pushing Pichu’s Upper Limits

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#1
Alright so I just made an account for Smashboards to ask this question: how good can Pichu get in a limited timespan? I was introduced to Smash when Brawl came out, so I’ve never played with him. I know he’s a joke character, which is perfect because I LOVE never taking things seriously. So, my main question for this thread is the following: is it possible for me to beat my friends (who are average casuals) with Pichu if they use actually good characters without becoming a hardcore competitive? Unfortunately I don’t have the time to play Smash all day everyday but I still want to be able to hold my own against the average player. With Pichu of course. Can this be done?
 

Zero Soul

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#2
We don't know how good or bad Pichu will be competitively this time around, and it doesn't really matter whether or not a character was great or terrible in a previous game, everything can change, so it's impossible to answer just how good he'll be this game, we don't know. Although, yes, you can definitely do that, if everyone's casual you shouldn't have much of a problem regardless of Pichu's viability (or any other character's), it'd definitely be possible (and while it wouldn't be easy, it should still be possible even if you all start becoming competitive players, I main arguably the worst character in Smash 4 and I still go to tournaments, it's not that unusual) , you can main Pichu and still win, there's no need to worry about it.
 

Hekpo

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#3
If they keep the rage effect, then I don't think Pichu would be too bad. My damaging himself, his rage would only increase, but since he's very light, it might not be too worth it.
 

Teeb147

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#4
Personally I think they're going to make pichu good.
His f-tilt can trip or stun, but that's all we know that can be good, for now.
I think it'll be fast and have effects on its attacks to compensate for damaging itself.
And it's cute :)
 

Teeb147

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#7
They really nerfed the self damage thing.
In the trailer pichu did I think it was a thunder jolt and it only did 0.1% to itself
Where did you see a thunder jolt? I wanna see.
All I saw was forward tilt which had like 0.7%, I think, and thunder, which was over 2%.
 

MERPIS

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#8
Where did you see a thunder jolt? I wanna see.
All I saw was forward tilt which had like 0.7%, I think, and thunder, which was over 2%.
I can't remember where
Also they're really gonna need to overhaul pichu's capabilities if we're gonna have him be anything else but garbage tier.
 

Teeb147

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#9
I predict pichu to be mid-tier or even higher :)
I think they want all characters to be viable.
 

Teeb147

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#11
Ya but in a game like smash some are just flat out better than Zelda
If you look at the changes they made, it's clear they know more what makes characters good. They buffed significantly zelda, ike, and other characters and theyre amazing now. I think they'll do good with all that.
 
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#12
I was talking to a friend about this the other night and we're hoping they double down on the idea that Pichu's electric attacks are stronger than Pikachu to reflect how poor he is at conserving his powers. We also want his Side B to occasionally misfire like Luigi's, resulting in a violent explosion sending him forward.
 

MERPIS

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#13
I was talking to a friend about this the other night and we're hoping they double down on the idea that Pichu's electric attacks are stronger than Pikachu to reflect how poor he is at conserving his powers. We also want his Side B to occasionally misfire like Luigi's, resulting in a violent explosion sending him forward.
Nerf Pichu's down throw please
 

meleebrawler

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#14
Let's not neglect that Pichu phased through a Charizard fsmash in that clip with Agility, crossed half of Final Destination with only a single use of it and slid very far angling it into the ground.

Self-damage on it will probably discourage abuse, but having what is basically a 64 Quick Attack, making recovery and escaping disadvantage almost free?

Oh, and Skull Bash bounces backwards on hit to make it less punishable.
 

MERPIS

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#15
Let's not neglect that Pichu phased through a Charizard fsmash in that clip with Agility, crossed half of Final Destination with only a single use of it and slid very far angling it into the ground.

Self-damage on it will probably discourage abuse, but having what is basically a 64 Quick Attack, making recovery and escaping disadvantage almost free?

Oh, and Skull Bash bounces backwards on hit to make it less punishable.
great so its flip jump
 

Teeb147

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#16
wait, did we see that, or that's what you'd like it to do? A better side-b would be really useful.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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#18
I do think that to compensate for the damage penalty, Pichu's attacks would pack a bigger punch than Pikachu's. For a character who can't store electricity very well, it would at least make sense.
 

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#19
I do think that to compensate for the damage penalty, Pichu's attacks would pack a bigger punch than Pikachu's. For a character who can't store electricity very well, it would at least make sense.
This is already mostly true in Melee, inadvertently or otherwise. It was just his terrible range and frailty that held him back,
plus the top tiers just having even more insane damage output. While the range still seems to be an issue an Ultimate, he's looking
to be a character that is almost impossible to land solid blows on with tiny size, great mobility and an absurd disadvantage with a ridiculously
buffed Agility.
 

Poopyhead

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#20
I think you are really overestimating Agility's usefulness. It has no hitbox like Quick Attack, which is an amazing tool that Pikachu has. In the clip where Pichu uses Agility, he doesn't phase through Charizard's F Smash hitbox. All he does is use it get out of the way of his F Smash, which only worked because Charizard is so slow and laggy. Pichu could have just attacked him instead. Since it has no hitbox it's just going to leave you open to be attacked both during and after.
 

meleebrawler

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#21
I think you are really overestimating Agility's usefulness. It has no hitbox like Quick Attack, which is an amazing tool that Pikachu has. In the clip where Pichu uses Agility, he doesn't phase through Charizard's F Smash hitbox. All he does is use it get out of the way of his F Smash, which only worked because Charizard is so slow and laggy. Pichu could have just attacked him instead. Since it has no hitbox it's just going to leave you open to be attacked both during and after.
At what point do I sound like I'm implying you can approach with Agility like Pikachu does with Quick Attack? Maybe you're right about there being
no conclusive proof of intangibility, but it doesn't change the fact that Agility carries Pichu farther and faster than it ever has before. I don't see how anyone could consistently punish the move when used as an escape unless they're super fast, not that doing it into the ground has a lot of lag in the first place.
 

Poopyhead

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#22
At what point do I sound like I'm implying you can approach with Agility like Pikachu does with Quick Attack?
I didn't say you did, I just don't think it's "ridiculously buffed." Mostly I wanted to make sure you understood it doesn't cause intangibility and that he doesn't really "phase through" an F Smash, he just crosses Charizard up by going behind him. I see this idea going around as well as "Pichu can stun," which is false.

I don't see how anyone could consistently punish the move when used as an escape unless they're super fast
It's not that people can consistently punish it (if at all) when used as an escape. But I compared it to Pikachu's to say that Pikachu can basically do the same thing, + have it as a risk-reward approach tool mix-up. Pichu's not having a hitbox means it isn't a combo starter and is probably heavier in risk while having less potential reward.

I'm just speculating anyway, it could be the best tool in the game in the end, who knows.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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#23
There's also the matter of the custom specials, IF they do return. Pichu could always receive an Agility variant that sacrifices travel distance for an offensive hitbox inclusion.
 

ryuu seika

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#24
While the range still seems to be an issue an Ultimate, he's looking
to be a character that is almost impossible to land solid blows on with tiny size, great mobility and an absurd disadvantage with a ridiculously
buffed Agility.
As of 4, model/hurtbox size seems to have become far more of a big deal. Something that Pichu should definitely be able to capitalise on.
I do not want to see him outdamage Pikachu but being more evasive and having tripping setups and such is totally in character, IMO.
 
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