Current version: 1.1.6.
"Oh sh*t not him again!" Yeah, it is me again. But before we start, let me just say something important: The purpose of this thread is NOT to cause any flame wars, trolling or other bad behaviours. The purpose of this thread is instead to give proof as to why PAC-MAN is a bad character and also to spark discussion. Yeah, I am going to use proof. Not opinions (entirely). Don't forget that! (If this thread somehow violates any rules and you as a moderator wants to remove this thread, please let me know beforehand.) With that said, let's start.
First and foremost I am going to show you a video, demonstrating the many design flaws PAC-MAN has as a character. When watching the video, do keep in mind that the CPUs are set to "Controller" and that no DI is included, meaning that the moves may KO at a much later damage percentage. Also, do note that rage effect is not in effect while in training mode. Still, even then, PAC-MAN's moves don't get boosted that much by rage anyway (with the exception of Bonus Fruit, which doesn't scale with rage at all), since they mostly have poor knockback values. Another thing: The damage percentages are chosen the way they are just so you can more easily grasp what I am trying to proof. Other things are also shown in the video. Here's the video - please have a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzLRh-5_xhs
Now that you have gotten a clearer view of PAC-MAN's many design flaws and faults (hopefully), let's take a closer look at his moves and see just how unfair treated some of his moves are. Let's start with his Up-air:
I am going to compare PAC-MAN's Up-air to Mario's, Captain Falcon's and Zero Suit Samus's Up-airs. (If you want, you can also compare it to Luigi's, Dr. Mario's, Ganondorf's and Bayonetta's Up-airs.)
PAC-MAN's Up-air starts at frame 9, ends at frame 37 (FAF), does 10%, suffers 16 frames of landing lag, auto cancels at frame 32>, has a launch angle of 70 and has knockback values of 13/100. (In other words, it is really weak and slow.)
Mario's Up-air starts at frame 4, ends at frame 32 (FAF), does 7%, suffers 12 frames of landing lag, auto cancels at frame 18>, has a launch angle of 75 and has knockback values of 10/135. (It is much faster than PAC-MAN's Up-air and it is better at KOing too.)
Captain Falcon's Up-air starts at frame 6, ends at frame 34 (FAF), does 11%, suffers 9 frames of landing lag, auto cancels at frame 24>, has a launch angle of 70 and has knockback values of 10/100. (It is better at KOing than PAC-MAN's Up-air and it is also a lot faster overall too.)
Zero Suit Samus's Up-air starts at frame 6, ends at frame 34 (FAF), does 6.5%, suffers 9 frames of landing lag, auto cancels at frame 25>, has a launch angle of 80 and has knockback values of 30/125. (Surprise surprise, it is also stronger than PAC-MAN's Up-air and it is a lot faster too.)
By now I hope you have realized how much better the other Up-airs are compared to PAC-MAN's Up-air, even though they share similar animations. Not only are they much faster overall than PAC-MAN's Up-air, but they are better at KOing too. If anything that is an unfair treatment they gave PAC-MAN regarding his Up-air. It's slow, it's weak, and it doesn't combo as reliable as the others... Now, let's move on to another move... B-air. (You can also compare it to Sonic's, Fox's, Ness's and Bayonetta's B-airs if you want to.)
PAC-MAN's B-air starts at frame 9, ends at frame 41 (FAF), does 11.8%, suffers 22 frames of landing lag, auto cancels at frame 36> and has knockback values of 10/100.
Mario's B-air starts at frame 6, ends at frame 34 (FAF), does 10.5%, suffers 12 frames of landing lag, auto cancels at frame 19> and has knockback values of 12/106.
Dr. Mario's B-air starts at frame 6, ends at frame 34 (FAF), does 13.44%, suffers 16 frames of landing lag, auto cancels at frame 19> and has knockback values of 10/95.
Luigi's B-air starts at frame 6, ends at frame 46 (FAF), does 14%, suffers 16 frames of landing lag, auto cancels at frame 33> and has knockback values of 12/100.
This really doesn't need much explanation. Just see for yourself and realize that PAC-MAN's B-air is easily the worst of them all. Even though his B-air's horrible landing lag (as much lag as an air dodge landing lag btw) can be explained by the fact that PAC-MAN shouldn't be able to Hydrant -> B-air -> launch it instantly according to the game developers, it still is brutal that it has a massive 22 frames of endlag, especially for being so weak. The B-air doing 11.8% is also explained by the fact that it could instant launch the Hydrant with refreshment bonus, meaning that the damage output would exceed 12%, enough to launch the Hydrant in one hit (Patches 1.0.0-1.0.3). But now that the Hydrant can't be instant launched by his B-air, it really should be doing a little more damage, like 12%. It's slow in every area possible (okay, frame 9 is decent I guess?) and it's very weak (despite a knockback growth buff), so it really deserves to be stronger. Also, is it really necessary for it to be so slow and laggy overall...? Next move...
PAC-MAN's F-air comes out at frame 5 and ends at frame 26 (FAF). Good, right? However, it doesn't auto cancel until frame 43> and suffers 16 frames of landing lag. Not so good, right? Think about it. It is quick, yes. Very quick. But for mostly being a poking move it really has much landing lag that are very unnecessary. It also barely gives hitstun until at much later percentages, due to it being very weak, so it is very punishable until then. Compare this to Sheik's F-air, which also comes out at frame 5. However, while it does end at frame 35 (FAF), it only suffers 10 frames of landing lag and auto cancels at frame 11>. Add to that that Sheik is a fast faller and PAC-MAN's a floaty character... It isn't hard to understand why Sheik's F-air is better than PAC-MAN's F-air, despite sharing many similarities actually. Oh, did I mention that Sheik's F-air can kill and PAC-MAN's cannot? Yeah... Next!
PAC-MAN's D-air ends at frame 60 (FAF) with 20 frames of endlag and it doesn't autocancel until frame 56, which is reeeally bad for a move that can't KO at all. It makes no sense that it doesn't send the victim downwards like Lucas's D-air does. It would really help PAC-MAN out if it did, since it can't KO otherwise. Like, what is the purpose of this move? Yeah, sure, it does have some niche values, like putting Luma in a tumble state. But? It doesn't send the opponent downwards nor does it KO upwards. It has a lot of lag and does little damage (10.5%). This move really needs to be reworked. No wonder it's so bad and rarely used... PAC-MAN doesn't have any meteor smashes (besides Freaky Key), so it would be very fitting if it did meteor smash the opponent. Next.
His Smash attacks are really slow/sluggish in both startup- and endlag. What's even worse is that they don't really pack that big of a punch compared to other Smash attacks of that caliber do, despite the knockback growth buffs. Although his F-smash deals a nice 16%, it's still slow, suffering 53 frames of endlag. The startup of it is frame 18. His Up-smash hasn't got the fastest startup either (first hit comes out at frame 13 while the second "main" hit comes out at frame 16) and it ends at frame 50. (Worth noting is that in a patch it got more endlag.) His D-smash is the biggest joke of them all, though, dealing only 13% with a startup of 18 frames and endlag of 55 frames. It is very weak too. Again, if his Smash attacks would pack a bigger punch then all of this would be more understandable. But really, with the strength they have now, it would make more sense if they had decreased startup and endlag. But even if they would have more power behind them, they still would need to be a little faster and end sooner. It really would help if they got "just" 1-2 frames faster in startup. Endlag on the other hand needs to be cut more than just 2 frames though. Moving on...
His Back-throw is really unfair compared to Mario's, Luigi's and Dr. Mario's Back-throws. Despite sharing almost identical animations, PAC-MAN's Back-throw is still the weakest one of them all. (Wario's pathetic Back-throw excluded.) (The only time this move will KO is when you grab the opponent near the ledge with you having high rage and the opponent having high damage. Very reliable in other words! kappa) It also suffers the most endlag of them all. In teams this matters a lot. What's making this worse, however, is that PAC-MAN shouldn't get many grabs to begin with, so this makes the payoff relatively small. His Back-throw really needs to get stronger and decreased endlag. Also, not to be picky, but it doesn't have a damaging hitbox while spinning the opponent around like the others have. (But maybe it has to do with PAC-MAN only spinning the opponent once.)
Now to his infamous grab. It is literally the worst grab in the whole Smash series due to its slow startup, really bad hitboxes, poor range (relatively) and tons of endlag. This move is so unacceptable that it isn't funny. Let's go over ALL of the tether grabs/ranged grabs (standing) in this game and compare them to PAC-MAN's almost unusable grab and just see how terrible it really is:
PAC-MAN: Frame 12-14, 22-24, 32-39. FAF 76.
Bowser Jr: Frame 12-13. FAF 36.
Link: Frame 12-17. FAF 62.
Lucas: Frame 12-19. FAF 46.
Olimar: Frame 10-19. FAF 50.
Samus: Frame 16-25. FAF 70.
Toon Link: Frame 12-18. FAF 62.
Villager: Frame 15-16. FAF 56.
Yoshi: Frame 14-24. FAF 56.
Zero Suit Samus: Frame 16-19, 16-25. FAF 69.
As you can see, PAC-MAN's grab suffers the most endlag of them all. It also isn't reliable at all, unlike the others (comparatively). And the funny thing is that people complain about Robin having a bad grab... PAC-MAN would have been exceedingly happy if he would have got Robin's grab, or heck, even Brawl Ganondorf's grab. That really says something. PAC-MAN's grab also has the most unreliable hitboxes ever. They only appear one at a time, with the first two grabboxes being very small. The beam has blindspots in it too. You can literally spot dodge a hitbox and then proceed to hardpunish PAC-MAN for it. It is also actually very shortranged too, in contrast with its animation. It makes me wonder why they decided to put in so much effort in making it really terrible while the item Boss Galaga has the exact same beam but functions properly. (PAC-MAN's grab is based on the Boss Galaga). That item doesn't have any blindspots in it as far as I know.
What's also funny is that PAC-MAN's grab has NEVER been fixed. That is true madness! Consider this: Lucas's grab got buffed immediately after the next patch he was released. Then it got buffed again in another patch. PAC-MAN has been around for the whole game and his grab has never ever been touched upon! Other grabs (like Link's, Samus's and even Greninja's) have also been buffed, but not even once have they fixed/buffed the mess that is PAC-MAN's tractor beams! If that isn't wanting a character to be bad then I don't know what. Freaking Brawl Wi-Fi beams. It is bad in every area possible. WHY HASN'T IT BEEN NOTICED BY THE DEV TEAM AND WHY HASN'T IT GOT FIXED YET??
Now over to PAC-MAN's priority. Before I say anything, yes - I am aware of the 9% priority law.
We all know that his specials are double-edged swords. Opponents can catch, negate and use the Bonus Fruit against PAC-MAN. Opponents can also launch the Hydrant at PAC-MAN. Opponents can steal bounces from the trampoline and make PAC-MAN's life miserable. Opponents can also interrupt PAC-MAN's Power Pellet, getting healed by it and severely punish an interrupted Power Pellet due to the insane endlag it possesses.
But have you ever noticed how his Bonus Fruits and Hydrant have "extra low" priority for "some reason", meaning that very many attacks can negate them, even weak ones? So not only does shields screw PAC-MAN over (more on that later), but the opponents don't really need shields to combat PAC-MAN's projectiles since they can just negate them with normal attacks. But if they do shield them, then the shields will not get too worned out/damaged anyway. This is why I think that his Hydrant and Bonus Fruits should deal added shield damage, along with better priority. His Power Pellet and Pac-Jump specials need this too. Heck, I think all of his chomping moves should have added shield damage. This includes his Dash Attack, D-tilt and Down-throw. (His Pac-Jump and Power Pellet moves are technically also chomping moves, but I've already suggested them.) If his projectiles and his chomping moves did more shield damage then it would make PAC-MAN more threatening to shields, something that is a good answer to EVERYTHING PAC-MAN has. (With the sole exception of his Trampoline, which ignores shields. But it isn't a reliable way to answer shields.)
But I know what some of you are thinking: "Yeah, but PAC-MAN already has deadly shield break setups, so he doesn't really need a way to beat shields. Also, he has duh trampoline." But my answer to that is: Yes, he has, but that really requires some preparation for it and only works on opponents that have no clue on what PAC-MAN is trying to do. First, he must get a Key in his hand. That alone isn't safe. Second, he must be above the opponent while they're shielding. Third, he must Z-drop the Key (at a height that makes the Key bounce twice), then drop the Hydrant onto the opponent, then follow up with a B-air (or N-air in some cases) to cause a shield break. But honestly now. In all that time span the opponent will have more than enough time to react to this setup. They can just roll away, negate the Hydrant/Key, or punish PAC-MAN before he even attempts to do something. Yes, maybe this will work sometime during intermediate- to low level play, but not at high level play against an opponent that knows the PAC-MAN Matchup. But enough digression.
As I said, shields are the best answer to deal with PAC-MAN. Why that is is because of PAC-MAN's lack of a reliable grab. That makes him not going for it a lot, which makes shields excellent counters to PAC-MAN. That coupled with his very weak and laggy moves makes shields laugh at him. Also, when opponents shield the Bonus Fruits, the opponent can catch them afterwards and use them against PAC-MAN, or even worse - holding on to them so that PAC-MAN can't use another Bonus Fruit. So with his Bonus Fruit and Hydrant dealing more damage to shields, that would definitely make up for the exploitable weaknesses they have. Remember that his Hydrant and Bonus Fruit are easily beaten by normal attacks due to their low priority/even if they had increased priority, so even then shields wouldn't be all that necessary to beat them. Which brings me to...
His Hydrant and some of his Bonus Fruits need to have their damage increased (meaning they will also be stronger, which they need), which will increase their priority. As of now, the dropped Hydrant only does 9%, while the damaged hitbox "only" does 13%. Think about it. I giant hunk of metal filled with water only does 9% when dropped on a foe's head and it only does 13% when hitting an opponent while being smacked flying around. I don't know about you, but I would definitely get serious injuries if I would get a fire hydrant dropped on my head or if one was crashing towards me. That is why I believe a dropped Hydrant should do at least 12% while a smacked one do at least 15%. If this would happen then fewer attacks would negate it (meaning that it will get higher priority) and it would be stronger too, getting the KO power it deserves (because it is somewhat lacking as of now). Because more damage, power and priority is what it needs. Its HP should be increased too, from 13% to 14% to make it more "durable". I also think that it shouldn't be able to get smacked back at ya by an attack while being airborne from a drop, but maybe that's just me. I also think that it should send the opponent downwards if it hits an airborne opponent (due to PAC-MAN lacking meteor smashes).
Now to his Bonus Fruit. It really is his best tool, no doubt. But! It is very weak. Don't believe me? Then I have to remind you of what happened in my video I posted. Mario couldn't get KOed by a Melon at 150% midstage (Battlefield), while a Key failed to KO Mario at 130% midstage (also Battlefield). Those two are his strongest Fruits. This was without DI, meaning that with optimal DI, they would KO much later. (They don't get affected by rage so you can't claim that.) Compare PAC-MAN's Key to other fully charged moves, such as Charge Shot, Shadow Ball and Thoron. Compare the damage too. Why Bonus Fruit has low priority is because of their low damage output. Let me got through them all:
Frame 8
> Cherry: 4%. OK! Understandable.
Frame 19
> Strawberry: 6%. OK! Understandable.
Frame 30
> Orange: 8%. OK! Understandable.
Frame 54
> Apple: 9%. Damage OK, but should get a little stronger/hit angle more vertically. Threshold.
Frame 78
> Melon: 12%. TWELVE?! For a slow moving projectile?? No wonder it is so weak. It would be fitting if it did 14%. Then it would get stronger and have higher priority. This move should also do serious shield damage.
Frame 102
> Galaxian: 9%. In the patch versions before Smash Wii U got released (aka the 3DS days), this did 11% per hit. While I can somewhat understand why they nerfed the damage to 9% per hit instead, it really makes no sense that it didn't got any knockback compensation for it. It can't KO now (but it couldn't before either) and its comboing abilities were really hampered in the process too. While 9% times two is by no means bad damage, it really is easy to outprioritize it. What's even worse is that when it gets outprioritized, it will lose all of its hitboxes, making it a dead ship on the flight. Of course this move shouldn't focus on KO power, but it really is sad that for a frame 102 move + 12 frames for tossing it, that it does relatively low damage, gets easily beaten and can't combo as easily in the early damage percentages (like it did previously). It should do 10% per hit while having the same power as it had when it did 11%. Also, I think that after the loop, it really should be reliably homing in on the opponent.
Frame 126
> Bell: 8%. WHAT?! ONLY EIGHT!? Corrin's Dragon Fang Shot does AT LEAST 8% (not the non-charged version)! It's ultra weak too. For being the second last Bonus Fruit, it surely is pathetic. While I'm not demanding it to be transcendent, it really needs both its KO power and its priority to be increased. This can be solved by upping its damage. The Bell doing 12% would make its reputation as the second last Bonus Fruit better. Honestly, it would be fair. Of course it's not a bad move, but sheesh, 8%. No wonder why like everything can negate it so easily...
Frame 150
> Key: 15%. It does a fair amount of damage. While not at the level of, say, Charge Shot and Shadow Ball, I still think its speed makes up for it. However, the only concern about this move is that it is a little underwhelming in power. Don't get me wrong, this is easily PAC-MAN's best KO move and it can KO, but when failing to KO Mario at the middle of Battlefield with no DI involved at 130%, it sure is very disappointing. Increase its knockback growth, and it will be a fine move.
When tossing a Bonus Fruit, PAC-MAN suffers 45 frames of endlag, which is eh. I mean, it is pretty decent compared to other projectile users/shooters, but it still is slow. Especially seeing how the animation could be sped up. I mean, look at PAC-MAN's reveal trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVz-2VuAYlY), when he tosses the Galaxian (at 0:53). Maybe it is just me, but I think he suffers less endlag when he tosses it, meaning he can more reliably do follow-up attacks. It is frustrating when you barely miss your follow-up attack after a Bell hits due to this endlag. But to conclude the Bonus Fruits, they universally need to do more shield damage while some of them need to do more damage and have better KO capabilities.
Now, what move is super good in a character's own game but completely sucks in Smash? At least one of them is Power Pellet. Here's some data for it: It suffers 94 frames (FAF) of endlag (!!), does 12% fully charged (!!) and is very weak. This can also be stopped by attacking the Power Pellet. How is this even a good move? Okay, I understand that you can stop the Power Pellet by attacking it, but the 94 frames of endlag? Why? That's horrible. And why does it only do 12% when fully charged? That is such a joke that I forgot to laugh. Then, it isn't even that powerful. Like come on, it's the freaking Power Pellet! While it is appreciated that PAC-MAN gets super armor the moment he eats the Power Pellet, I still think it is too few super armor frames he gains. I'm not suggesting that the whole animation after the Power Pellet has been consumed should give super armor, but I definitely think that it should give more super armor frames. In the original PAC-MAN game, PAC-MAN got 10 seconds of invulnerability when he ate a Power Pellet, so I really think he deserves more than just a few frames of super armor. After all, he should get invincible, but maybe that is asking for too much? Anyhow, they need to greatly reduce the endlag of the move and increase the damage from 12% to 15-16% on the fully charged hit. On the other non-fully charged hits they should increase the damage by 2-3%. This would make the Power Pellet a powerful move, like it is in the original game. And again, the Power Pellet should do more shield damage, with the fully charged one being able to at least do half the shield damage required for a shield break.
The initial hit is very inconsistent for linking the move into the final hit. For this, I would redo the initial hit so that PAC-MAN will drag the opponent along with him towards the Power Pellet, with the knockback angle of each hit sending the opponent the way PAC-MAN is facing. Every other Pac-Dot would produce a dragging hitbox after PAC-MAN eats them, so that the full move should connect.
Regarding the Pac-Jump and Trampoline, I think they are amazing moves. The Trampoline is fine. If it would have stuck around/lingered more, it would've be great. But I have always wondered why the third hit of Pac-Jump never KOs. I really think they should fix that.
The Power Pellet ledge crash (or the "floor wall miss" as some of you call it) should also be fixed. It's funny how Greninja's head bonk angle got changed so he could survive more easily, but not PAC-MAN's. Anyhow, if this crash would happen, and you cannot reach the ledge by your second bounce, you're screwed, since your opponent will probably steal the third bounce if you haven't outright got self-destructed by then. Even if the opponent doesn't steal the third jump, it isn't guaranteed that you will reach the ledge anyway. That is bad.
Also, his F-tilt glitch should be removed. I think that during the first (few) frame(s) when PAC-MAN walks and simultaneously performs an F-tilt, the glitch kicks in. What happens is that the move will be shortened and inconsistent. Also a bad thing. They were eager to remove all the other glitches PAC-MAN had, but not this one. I expect them to feel as enthusiastic to remove this one glitch as they did for his other glitches.
---
So, why PAC-MAN isn't viable:
Simply put he:
- can't grab
- is weak
- can't KO, with his best KO move (Key) being takable
- has low damage output
- gets screwed by shields
- gets screwed by rage (and can't abuse it either)
- has tons of lag
- has sluggish Smash attacks
- his Specials can be used against him
- is vulnerable when trying to recover back to the stage
- has many unwinnable matchups (Mario, for instance)
PAC-MAN is the only character in the game that can't grab nor KO. Ouch!
Every character in the game can deal with PAC-MAN's tools, meaning that PAC-MAN isn't that hard to defeat (can't grab, can't KO and his best tools are easily beaten). Remember that!
Sources: http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/PAC-MAN. http://www.ssbwiki.com/Pac-Man_(SSB4).
"Oh sh*t not him again!" Yeah, it is me again. But before we start, let me just say something important: The purpose of this thread is NOT to cause any flame wars, trolling or other bad behaviours. The purpose of this thread is instead to give proof as to why PAC-MAN is a bad character and also to spark discussion. Yeah, I am going to use proof. Not opinions (entirely). Don't forget that! (If this thread somehow violates any rules and you as a moderator wants to remove this thread, please let me know beforehand.) With that said, let's start.
First and foremost I am going to show you a video, demonstrating the many design flaws PAC-MAN has as a character. When watching the video, do keep in mind that the CPUs are set to "Controller" and that no DI is included, meaning that the moves may KO at a much later damage percentage. Also, do note that rage effect is not in effect while in training mode. Still, even then, PAC-MAN's moves don't get boosted that much by rage anyway (with the exception of Bonus Fruit, which doesn't scale with rage at all), since they mostly have poor knockback values. Another thing: The damage percentages are chosen the way they are just so you can more easily grasp what I am trying to proof. Other things are also shown in the video. Here's the video - please have a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzLRh-5_xhs
Now that you have gotten a clearer view of PAC-MAN's many design flaws and faults (hopefully), let's take a closer look at his moves and see just how unfair treated some of his moves are. Let's start with his Up-air:
I am going to compare PAC-MAN's Up-air to Mario's, Captain Falcon's and Zero Suit Samus's Up-airs. (If you want, you can also compare it to Luigi's, Dr. Mario's, Ganondorf's and Bayonetta's Up-airs.)
PAC-MAN's Up-air starts at frame 9, ends at frame 37 (FAF), does 10%, suffers 16 frames of landing lag, auto cancels at frame 32>, has a launch angle of 70 and has knockback values of 13/100. (In other words, it is really weak and slow.)
Mario's Up-air starts at frame 4, ends at frame 32 (FAF), does 7%, suffers 12 frames of landing lag, auto cancels at frame 18>, has a launch angle of 75 and has knockback values of 10/135. (It is much faster than PAC-MAN's Up-air and it is better at KOing too.)
Captain Falcon's Up-air starts at frame 6, ends at frame 34 (FAF), does 11%, suffers 9 frames of landing lag, auto cancels at frame 24>, has a launch angle of 70 and has knockback values of 10/100. (It is better at KOing than PAC-MAN's Up-air and it is also a lot faster overall too.)
Zero Suit Samus's Up-air starts at frame 6, ends at frame 34 (FAF), does 6.5%, suffers 9 frames of landing lag, auto cancels at frame 25>, has a launch angle of 80 and has knockback values of 30/125. (Surprise surprise, it is also stronger than PAC-MAN's Up-air and it is a lot faster too.)
By now I hope you have realized how much better the other Up-airs are compared to PAC-MAN's Up-air, even though they share similar animations. Not only are they much faster overall than PAC-MAN's Up-air, but they are better at KOing too. If anything that is an unfair treatment they gave PAC-MAN regarding his Up-air. It's slow, it's weak, and it doesn't combo as reliable as the others... Now, let's move on to another move... B-air. (You can also compare it to Sonic's, Fox's, Ness's and Bayonetta's B-airs if you want to.)
PAC-MAN's B-air starts at frame 9, ends at frame 41 (FAF), does 11.8%, suffers 22 frames of landing lag, auto cancels at frame 36> and has knockback values of 10/100.
Mario's B-air starts at frame 6, ends at frame 34 (FAF), does 10.5%, suffers 12 frames of landing lag, auto cancels at frame 19> and has knockback values of 12/106.
Dr. Mario's B-air starts at frame 6, ends at frame 34 (FAF), does 13.44%, suffers 16 frames of landing lag, auto cancels at frame 19> and has knockback values of 10/95.
Luigi's B-air starts at frame 6, ends at frame 46 (FAF), does 14%, suffers 16 frames of landing lag, auto cancels at frame 33> and has knockback values of 12/100.
This really doesn't need much explanation. Just see for yourself and realize that PAC-MAN's B-air is easily the worst of them all. Even though his B-air's horrible landing lag (as much lag as an air dodge landing lag btw) can be explained by the fact that PAC-MAN shouldn't be able to Hydrant -> B-air -> launch it instantly according to the game developers, it still is brutal that it has a massive 22 frames of endlag, especially for being so weak. The B-air doing 11.8% is also explained by the fact that it could instant launch the Hydrant with refreshment bonus, meaning that the damage output would exceed 12%, enough to launch the Hydrant in one hit (Patches 1.0.0-1.0.3). But now that the Hydrant can't be instant launched by his B-air, it really should be doing a little more damage, like 12%. It's slow in every area possible (okay, frame 9 is decent I guess?) and it's very weak (despite a knockback growth buff), so it really deserves to be stronger. Also, is it really necessary for it to be so slow and laggy overall...? Next move...
PAC-MAN's F-air comes out at frame 5 and ends at frame 26 (FAF). Good, right? However, it doesn't auto cancel until frame 43> and suffers 16 frames of landing lag. Not so good, right? Think about it. It is quick, yes. Very quick. But for mostly being a poking move it really has much landing lag that are very unnecessary. It also barely gives hitstun until at much later percentages, due to it being very weak, so it is very punishable until then. Compare this to Sheik's F-air, which also comes out at frame 5. However, while it does end at frame 35 (FAF), it only suffers 10 frames of landing lag and auto cancels at frame 11>. Add to that that Sheik is a fast faller and PAC-MAN's a floaty character... It isn't hard to understand why Sheik's F-air is better than PAC-MAN's F-air, despite sharing many similarities actually. Oh, did I mention that Sheik's F-air can kill and PAC-MAN's cannot? Yeah... Next!
PAC-MAN's D-air ends at frame 60 (FAF) with 20 frames of endlag and it doesn't autocancel until frame 56, which is reeeally bad for a move that can't KO at all. It makes no sense that it doesn't send the victim downwards like Lucas's D-air does. It would really help PAC-MAN out if it did, since it can't KO otherwise. Like, what is the purpose of this move? Yeah, sure, it does have some niche values, like putting Luma in a tumble state. But? It doesn't send the opponent downwards nor does it KO upwards. It has a lot of lag and does little damage (10.5%). This move really needs to be reworked. No wonder it's so bad and rarely used... PAC-MAN doesn't have any meteor smashes (besides Freaky Key), so it would be very fitting if it did meteor smash the opponent. Next.
His Smash attacks are really slow/sluggish in both startup- and endlag. What's even worse is that they don't really pack that big of a punch compared to other Smash attacks of that caliber do, despite the knockback growth buffs. Although his F-smash deals a nice 16%, it's still slow, suffering 53 frames of endlag. The startup of it is frame 18. His Up-smash hasn't got the fastest startup either (first hit comes out at frame 13 while the second "main" hit comes out at frame 16) and it ends at frame 50. (Worth noting is that in a patch it got more endlag.) His D-smash is the biggest joke of them all, though, dealing only 13% with a startup of 18 frames and endlag of 55 frames. It is very weak too. Again, if his Smash attacks would pack a bigger punch then all of this would be more understandable. But really, with the strength they have now, it would make more sense if they had decreased startup and endlag. But even if they would have more power behind them, they still would need to be a little faster and end sooner. It really would help if they got "just" 1-2 frames faster in startup. Endlag on the other hand needs to be cut more than just 2 frames though. Moving on...
His Back-throw is really unfair compared to Mario's, Luigi's and Dr. Mario's Back-throws. Despite sharing almost identical animations, PAC-MAN's Back-throw is still the weakest one of them all. (Wario's pathetic Back-throw excluded.) (The only time this move will KO is when you grab the opponent near the ledge with you having high rage and the opponent having high damage. Very reliable in other words! kappa) It also suffers the most endlag of them all. In teams this matters a lot. What's making this worse, however, is that PAC-MAN shouldn't get many grabs to begin with, so this makes the payoff relatively small. His Back-throw really needs to get stronger and decreased endlag. Also, not to be picky, but it doesn't have a damaging hitbox while spinning the opponent around like the others have. (But maybe it has to do with PAC-MAN only spinning the opponent once.)
Now to his infamous grab. It is literally the worst grab in the whole Smash series due to its slow startup, really bad hitboxes, poor range (relatively) and tons of endlag. This move is so unacceptable that it isn't funny. Let's go over ALL of the tether grabs/ranged grabs (standing) in this game and compare them to PAC-MAN's almost unusable grab and just see how terrible it really is:
PAC-MAN: Frame 12-14, 22-24, 32-39. FAF 76.
Bowser Jr: Frame 12-13. FAF 36.
Link: Frame 12-17. FAF 62.
Lucas: Frame 12-19. FAF 46.
Olimar: Frame 10-19. FAF 50.
Samus: Frame 16-25. FAF 70.
Toon Link: Frame 12-18. FAF 62.
Villager: Frame 15-16. FAF 56.
Yoshi: Frame 14-24. FAF 56.
Zero Suit Samus: Frame 16-19, 16-25. FAF 69.
As you can see, PAC-MAN's grab suffers the most endlag of them all. It also isn't reliable at all, unlike the others (comparatively). And the funny thing is that people complain about Robin having a bad grab... PAC-MAN would have been exceedingly happy if he would have got Robin's grab, or heck, even Brawl Ganondorf's grab. That really says something. PAC-MAN's grab also has the most unreliable hitboxes ever. They only appear one at a time, with the first two grabboxes being very small. The beam has blindspots in it too. You can literally spot dodge a hitbox and then proceed to hardpunish PAC-MAN for it. It is also actually very shortranged too, in contrast with its animation. It makes me wonder why they decided to put in so much effort in making it really terrible while the item Boss Galaga has the exact same beam but functions properly. (PAC-MAN's grab is based on the Boss Galaga). That item doesn't have any blindspots in it as far as I know.
What's also funny is that PAC-MAN's grab has NEVER been fixed. That is true madness! Consider this: Lucas's grab got buffed immediately after the next patch he was released. Then it got buffed again in another patch. PAC-MAN has been around for the whole game and his grab has never ever been touched upon! Other grabs (like Link's, Samus's and even Greninja's) have also been buffed, but not even once have they fixed/buffed the mess that is PAC-MAN's tractor beams! If that isn't wanting a character to be bad then I don't know what. Freaking Brawl Wi-Fi beams. It is bad in every area possible. WHY HASN'T IT BEEN NOTICED BY THE DEV TEAM AND WHY HASN'T IT GOT FIXED YET??
Now over to PAC-MAN's priority. Before I say anything, yes - I am aware of the 9% priority law.
We all know that his specials are double-edged swords. Opponents can catch, negate and use the Bonus Fruit against PAC-MAN. Opponents can also launch the Hydrant at PAC-MAN. Opponents can steal bounces from the trampoline and make PAC-MAN's life miserable. Opponents can also interrupt PAC-MAN's Power Pellet, getting healed by it and severely punish an interrupted Power Pellet due to the insane endlag it possesses.
But have you ever noticed how his Bonus Fruits and Hydrant have "extra low" priority for "some reason", meaning that very many attacks can negate them, even weak ones? So not only does shields screw PAC-MAN over (more on that later), but the opponents don't really need shields to combat PAC-MAN's projectiles since they can just negate them with normal attacks. But if they do shield them, then the shields will not get too worned out/damaged anyway. This is why I think that his Hydrant and Bonus Fruits should deal added shield damage, along with better priority. His Power Pellet and Pac-Jump specials need this too. Heck, I think all of his chomping moves should have added shield damage. This includes his Dash Attack, D-tilt and Down-throw. (His Pac-Jump and Power Pellet moves are technically also chomping moves, but I've already suggested them.) If his projectiles and his chomping moves did more shield damage then it would make PAC-MAN more threatening to shields, something that is a good answer to EVERYTHING PAC-MAN has. (With the sole exception of his Trampoline, which ignores shields. But it isn't a reliable way to answer shields.)
But I know what some of you are thinking: "Yeah, but PAC-MAN already has deadly shield break setups, so he doesn't really need a way to beat shields. Also, he has duh trampoline." But my answer to that is: Yes, he has, but that really requires some preparation for it and only works on opponents that have no clue on what PAC-MAN is trying to do. First, he must get a Key in his hand. That alone isn't safe. Second, he must be above the opponent while they're shielding. Third, he must Z-drop the Key (at a height that makes the Key bounce twice), then drop the Hydrant onto the opponent, then follow up with a B-air (or N-air in some cases) to cause a shield break. But honestly now. In all that time span the opponent will have more than enough time to react to this setup. They can just roll away, negate the Hydrant/Key, or punish PAC-MAN before he even attempts to do something. Yes, maybe this will work sometime during intermediate- to low level play, but not at high level play against an opponent that knows the PAC-MAN Matchup. But enough digression.
As I said, shields are the best answer to deal with PAC-MAN. Why that is is because of PAC-MAN's lack of a reliable grab. That makes him not going for it a lot, which makes shields excellent counters to PAC-MAN. That coupled with his very weak and laggy moves makes shields laugh at him. Also, when opponents shield the Bonus Fruits, the opponent can catch them afterwards and use them against PAC-MAN, or even worse - holding on to them so that PAC-MAN can't use another Bonus Fruit. So with his Bonus Fruit and Hydrant dealing more damage to shields, that would definitely make up for the exploitable weaknesses they have. Remember that his Hydrant and Bonus Fruit are easily beaten by normal attacks due to their low priority/even if they had increased priority, so even then shields wouldn't be all that necessary to beat them. Which brings me to...
His Hydrant and some of his Bonus Fruits need to have their damage increased (meaning they will also be stronger, which they need), which will increase their priority. As of now, the dropped Hydrant only does 9%, while the damaged hitbox "only" does 13%. Think about it. I giant hunk of metal filled with water only does 9% when dropped on a foe's head and it only does 13% when hitting an opponent while being smacked flying around. I don't know about you, but I would definitely get serious injuries if I would get a fire hydrant dropped on my head or if one was crashing towards me. That is why I believe a dropped Hydrant should do at least 12% while a smacked one do at least 15%. If this would happen then fewer attacks would negate it (meaning that it will get higher priority) and it would be stronger too, getting the KO power it deserves (because it is somewhat lacking as of now). Because more damage, power and priority is what it needs. Its HP should be increased too, from 13% to 14% to make it more "durable". I also think that it shouldn't be able to get smacked back at ya by an attack while being airborne from a drop, but maybe that's just me. I also think that it should send the opponent downwards if it hits an airborne opponent (due to PAC-MAN lacking meteor smashes).
Now to his Bonus Fruit. It really is his best tool, no doubt. But! It is very weak. Don't believe me? Then I have to remind you of what happened in my video I posted. Mario couldn't get KOed by a Melon at 150% midstage (Battlefield), while a Key failed to KO Mario at 130% midstage (also Battlefield). Those two are his strongest Fruits. This was without DI, meaning that with optimal DI, they would KO much later. (They don't get affected by rage so you can't claim that.) Compare PAC-MAN's Key to other fully charged moves, such as Charge Shot, Shadow Ball and Thoron. Compare the damage too. Why Bonus Fruit has low priority is because of their low damage output. Let me got through them all:
Frame 8
> Cherry: 4%. OK! Understandable.
Frame 19
> Strawberry: 6%. OK! Understandable.
Frame 30
> Orange: 8%. OK! Understandable.
Frame 54
> Apple: 9%. Damage OK, but should get a little stronger/hit angle more vertically. Threshold.
Frame 78
> Melon: 12%. TWELVE?! For a slow moving projectile?? No wonder it is so weak. It would be fitting if it did 14%. Then it would get stronger and have higher priority. This move should also do serious shield damage.
Frame 102
> Galaxian: 9%. In the patch versions before Smash Wii U got released (aka the 3DS days), this did 11% per hit. While I can somewhat understand why they nerfed the damage to 9% per hit instead, it really makes no sense that it didn't got any knockback compensation for it. It can't KO now (but it couldn't before either) and its comboing abilities were really hampered in the process too. While 9% times two is by no means bad damage, it really is easy to outprioritize it. What's even worse is that when it gets outprioritized, it will lose all of its hitboxes, making it a dead ship on the flight. Of course this move shouldn't focus on KO power, but it really is sad that for a frame 102 move + 12 frames for tossing it, that it does relatively low damage, gets easily beaten and can't combo as easily in the early damage percentages (like it did previously). It should do 10% per hit while having the same power as it had when it did 11%. Also, I think that after the loop, it really should be reliably homing in on the opponent.
Frame 126
> Bell: 8%. WHAT?! ONLY EIGHT!? Corrin's Dragon Fang Shot does AT LEAST 8% (not the non-charged version)! It's ultra weak too. For being the second last Bonus Fruit, it surely is pathetic. While I'm not demanding it to be transcendent, it really needs both its KO power and its priority to be increased. This can be solved by upping its damage. The Bell doing 12% would make its reputation as the second last Bonus Fruit better. Honestly, it would be fair. Of course it's not a bad move, but sheesh, 8%. No wonder why like everything can negate it so easily...
Frame 150
> Key: 15%. It does a fair amount of damage. While not at the level of, say, Charge Shot and Shadow Ball, I still think its speed makes up for it. However, the only concern about this move is that it is a little underwhelming in power. Don't get me wrong, this is easily PAC-MAN's best KO move and it can KO, but when failing to KO Mario at the middle of Battlefield with no DI involved at 130%, it sure is very disappointing. Increase its knockback growth, and it will be a fine move.
When tossing a Bonus Fruit, PAC-MAN suffers 45 frames of endlag, which is eh. I mean, it is pretty decent compared to other projectile users/shooters, but it still is slow. Especially seeing how the animation could be sped up. I mean, look at PAC-MAN's reveal trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVz-2VuAYlY), when he tosses the Galaxian (at 0:53). Maybe it is just me, but I think he suffers less endlag when he tosses it, meaning he can more reliably do follow-up attacks. It is frustrating when you barely miss your follow-up attack after a Bell hits due to this endlag. But to conclude the Bonus Fruits, they universally need to do more shield damage while some of them need to do more damage and have better KO capabilities.
Now, what move is super good in a character's own game but completely sucks in Smash? At least one of them is Power Pellet. Here's some data for it: It suffers 94 frames (FAF) of endlag (!!), does 12% fully charged (!!) and is very weak. This can also be stopped by attacking the Power Pellet. How is this even a good move? Okay, I understand that you can stop the Power Pellet by attacking it, but the 94 frames of endlag? Why? That's horrible. And why does it only do 12% when fully charged? That is such a joke that I forgot to laugh. Then, it isn't even that powerful. Like come on, it's the freaking Power Pellet! While it is appreciated that PAC-MAN gets super armor the moment he eats the Power Pellet, I still think it is too few super armor frames he gains. I'm not suggesting that the whole animation after the Power Pellet has been consumed should give super armor, but I definitely think that it should give more super armor frames. In the original PAC-MAN game, PAC-MAN got 10 seconds of invulnerability when he ate a Power Pellet, so I really think he deserves more than just a few frames of super armor. After all, he should get invincible, but maybe that is asking for too much? Anyhow, they need to greatly reduce the endlag of the move and increase the damage from 12% to 15-16% on the fully charged hit. On the other non-fully charged hits they should increase the damage by 2-3%. This would make the Power Pellet a powerful move, like it is in the original game. And again, the Power Pellet should do more shield damage, with the fully charged one being able to at least do half the shield damage required for a shield break.
The initial hit is very inconsistent for linking the move into the final hit. For this, I would redo the initial hit so that PAC-MAN will drag the opponent along with him towards the Power Pellet, with the knockback angle of each hit sending the opponent the way PAC-MAN is facing. Every other Pac-Dot would produce a dragging hitbox after PAC-MAN eats them, so that the full move should connect.
Regarding the Pac-Jump and Trampoline, I think they are amazing moves. The Trampoline is fine. If it would have stuck around/lingered more, it would've be great. But I have always wondered why the third hit of Pac-Jump never KOs. I really think they should fix that.
The Power Pellet ledge crash (or the "floor wall miss" as some of you call it) should also be fixed. It's funny how Greninja's head bonk angle got changed so he could survive more easily, but not PAC-MAN's. Anyhow, if this crash would happen, and you cannot reach the ledge by your second bounce, you're screwed, since your opponent will probably steal the third bounce if you haven't outright got self-destructed by then. Even if the opponent doesn't steal the third jump, it isn't guaranteed that you will reach the ledge anyway. That is bad.
Also, his F-tilt glitch should be removed. I think that during the first (few) frame(s) when PAC-MAN walks and simultaneously performs an F-tilt, the glitch kicks in. What happens is that the move will be shortened and inconsistent. Also a bad thing. They were eager to remove all the other glitches PAC-MAN had, but not this one. I expect them to feel as enthusiastic to remove this one glitch as they did for his other glitches.
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So, why PAC-MAN isn't viable:
Simply put he:
- can't grab
- is weak
- can't KO, with his best KO move (Key) being takable
- has low damage output
- gets screwed by shields
- gets screwed by rage (and can't abuse it either)
- has tons of lag
- has sluggish Smash attacks
- his Specials can be used against him
- is vulnerable when trying to recover back to the stage
- has many unwinnable matchups (Mario, for instance)
PAC-MAN is the only character in the game that can't grab nor KO. Ouch!
Every character in the game can deal with PAC-MAN's tools, meaning that PAC-MAN isn't that hard to defeat (can't grab, can't KO and his best tools are easily beaten). Remember that!
Sources: http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/PAC-MAN. http://www.ssbwiki.com/Pac-Man_(SSB4).
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