[Project M] Yoshi Matchup Thread

[Damp]

How do you guys feel about Yoshi's current spread in the Community MU Chart? And what how would you guys rate the missing MU spots?

Yoshi's only good matchup in 3.6 is against ICs

 

[Damp]

also that matchup chart is hilariously bad.

 

[AuraMaudeGone]

also that matchup chart is hilariously bad.

It's a work in progress.

 

[Damp]

Yoshi is like -23094032 against Zelda. Definitely negative against Wario. Don't know how he's possibly negative against Puff. Positive against Pika, and like +6564 against ICs.

 

[AuraMaudeGone]

Yoshi is like -23094032 against Zelda. Definitely negative against Wario. Don't know how he's possibly negative against Puff. Positive against Pika, and like +6564 against ICs.

I remember Mumbo discussing the Zelda MU with some Zelda players, they claim the MU isn't that bad for you guys, but they never came to a clear conclusion.

SoulPech claims the Puff MU is like Melee, so it was rated -2

Pika boards collectively feel that the MU is even so far.

You may want to elaborate more on your ratings and I'll report to the other side about it.

 

[Deleted member]

I have a decent amount of good zelda exp. I think its probably -1, not worse. Yoshi breaks space against zelda pretty well. Having a reliable kill option off of grab is also really important against zelda.
I REALLY disagree that yoshi beats sonic badly. Maybe +1. A lot of yoshi's neutral game requires some commitment, which sonic is quick enough to punish. Yoshi can't really force appraoches with eggs since sonic is so fast. Pivot grab beats some sonic approaches, but sonic can just run and short hop bair crossup and you won't grab him. Yoshi also isn't good at landing, which is good for sonic.
Ganon is -1 at worst. Yoshi punishes ganon hard and can gimp him. Source: I'm 1-1 vs Red Ranger who is top 10-ish player in socal with ganon.
Shiek is even or -1. Shiek does a lot of nasty stuff to yoshi's recovery but yoshi can stuff a lot of shiek's aerials with DJ armor until high percents. Yoshi also combos shiek really hard.
Lucario is -1 I think. Yoshi combos lucario well, but being unable to roll out of lucario shield pressure sucks. Yoshi wins the neutral when lucario doesn't have aura. I used to think this matchup was impossible but changed my mind. Source: Played with Stauffy a lot. Played vs IPunchKids a bit.
Toon Link is -1 I think, maybe even. The nice thing about yoshi is that he can disrupt vertical camping with egg toss.
Link is also -1 I think. Yoshi has nasty combos on link and can gimp him, though the neutral is hard on some stages.
I think yoshi is probably -1 against fox. If fox plays campy, yoshi can't do much. If fox approaches yoshi can f course do some good stuff.

Yoshi is at least even with snake, but I'd say +1. Neutral B WRECKS snake. Absolutely wrecks him. He can't hold a grenade and shield, one of his staples, against yoshi cuz he will just get egg layed and then the grenade will blow him up. Yoshi also combos snake well. Source: Have beaten babaganoush (good socal snake) a lot recently. Also I've played Prof Pro in tournament so I know what snake can do.

Sources listed sometimes so you guys don't think I'm just pulling these numbers out nowhere. Everything else in the chartI either don't have enough experience with or agree with.

 

[Feral Cadence]

Does anyone have experience against good Falco players. I mostly know how to punish spacies, but getting in on Falco's neutral is daunting.

A couple of the more vocal Melee elitists in my area are Falco mains, and I desperately want to take them down a peg.

 

[Altanic]

Does anyone have experience against good Falco players. I mostly know how to punish spacies, but getting in on Falco's neutral is daunting.

A couple of the more vocal Melee elitists in my area are Falco mains, and I desperately want to take them down a peg.

Grab punishes with Yoshi work. I don't play Yoshi, but arguably one of the best players at the college I go to is a Yoshi main, so we play a lot. Unless Falco's shooting lasers, he doesn't really have anything with range, but Yoshi's tongue will go sooooo far. I would say it's important to play the spacing game and try to bait out approaches and punish with grab.
Like I said, not a Yoshi main, but just my two cents.

 

[Scatz]

For what I know, it's much easier to fight Falco with platforms than head on because it makes Falco's lasers easier to get around. Respect the SH spacing since SH Nair/Dair can still stuff a good bit of options, and don't try to force an option against shield pressure (except double shines sometimes). Utilize Yoshi's ability to get around with the platforms (vertically and horizontally) to create baits for landing a grab.

Yoshi has to make the most out of his punish game, so make sure you get as much damage on Falco as possible before letting him out of a combo. With the platforms, you can use Uthrow to force a techchase and then convert into a Uair combo or a kill move at higher percents. Dthrow techs can easily be read so you can get the placement that you're looking for in terms of getting maximum damage.

 

[Feral Cadence]

Awesome. Thanks guys. I'll have to put more thought into my movement baits. I think I've been auto piloting perfect wavelands ever since I learned how to do it.

 

[deeseejay]

Bit of advice if ya'll would be so kind.

What are your bread and butter approaches with Yoshi? Do we have anything that's safe on shield? I get shield grabbed a lot and for characters that can convert off grabs - I get badly punished.

What are your go to kill moves? It seems like it get's to a point where you're either fishing for a fsmash/dsmash or playing against a character where dthrow nair kills (this can be easy to DI though).

How do you deal with characters with command grabs? I have a lot of issues with Ganondorfs side B and Warios bite (the bite in particular) especially since Yoshi is a little on the chubby side.

Lastly, how do you deal with Zelda? In that match up I just get camped hard and any approaches are snubbed out by a fair. She seems hard to approach, how to combo, hard to kill.

Any advice at all on any of the above would be massively appreciated.

Thanks a bunch!

 

[Deleted member]

Bit of advice if ya'll would be so kind.

What are your bread and butter approaches with Yoshi? Do we have anything that's safe on shield? I get shield grabbed a lot and for characters that can convert off grabs - I get badly punished.

What are your go to kill moves? It seems like it get's to a point where you're either fishing for a fsmash/dsmash or playing against a character where dthrow nair kills (this can be easy to DI though).

How do you deal with characters with command grabs? I have a lot of issues with Ganondorfs side B and Warios bite (the bite in particular) especially since Yoshi is a little on the chubby side.

Lastly, how do you deal with Zelda? In that match up I just get camped hard and any approaches are snubbed out by a fair. She seems hard to approach, how to combo, hard to kill.

Any advice at all on any of the above would be massively appreciated.

Thanks a bunch!

Not sure if this is the right place but:

Yoshi's approach game isn't the best. Well spaced fairs, either SHFL'd or out of a djc are safe on shield. You can't double jab safely but if someone is shielding a lot i like to sh fair multiple time on shields and intersperse single jabs. It's weird but its crazy pressure.
Otherwise you can go in and neutral B someone who is shielding, and then depending on the character, either throw an egg to catch their escape, or crouch next to the egg and usmash them when they come out. Staying grounded and spacing with dtilt is important in some matchups. There are quite a few matchups where yoshi shouldn't jump much in neutral. Learning to play a solid ground game is really tough. Watch HugS in melee to see the sort of ground game you can do in neutral (Samus uses ftilt, yoshi can use Dtilt).

Lots of kill moves are guarenteed off of fair at high percents cuz the hit stun is so gnarly.
Pivot grab beats command grabs. If you think wario is gonna come bite you just run away and pivot grab him. Same with ganon's side b.
Zelda is weird. Be patient but don't camp. Don't run into smashes. Try and stay mid range where zelda might want to throw a side b but where you can grab her. Wait for zelda to make a move and then punish, rather than trying to outprioritize (you can't). Go for consistent damage, don't overextend. Get a grab, dthrow uair, take stage control. Dash attack is also decent against zelda to mix up with your dash grabs and it kills.

 

[Feral Cadence]

Lately, I've been experimenting a lot with neutral B approaches. Typically, if the opponent knows how to deal with it, all you'll get is stage positioning, but it can lead to some sick punishes if the break out of the egg wrong. Otherwise, I play the bait and punish game, especially with pivot grabs or DJ turnaround nair/fair. Egg toss is great in neutral against camping opponents, especially if you use ECEs. Yoshi's got a lot of options. Figure out what's safe (well spaced d-tilts against dash dancing opponents) and what's unsafe (f-tilts against shield), and come up with a decent approach that works against your opponent's play style.

I find that I gimp much more often than I outright kill. Down smash is great if your opponent isn't expecting it, and forward smash is a great punish. At higher percents, dair to down smash (or down-B if you're trying to be risky and flashy).

And, as always, remember that jab resets often equal a free stock at medium percents, or a good combo at low percents. I've started doing single jabs after every fair, just in case they don't tech.

As far as command grabs are concerned, we have the longest one in the game. Just try not to be on top of your opponent whenever possible. Don't d-tilt a recovering Ganon or Falcon unless they start their flip. You'll get pulled in.

Zelda is one of Yoshi's worst matchups. Abuse neutral B. You out range her legs with your tongue, and throwing an egg up at her while she's caught is a good way to either start a short combo, tack on some percent, or get her to move where you want her to go. You kind of have to chip away at her until you can get a decent kill move out. ECEs are pretty dangerous because of Din's, so be careful at the ledge.

 

[Scatz]

Landing egglay follow-ups is difficult because of how much range it covers and how easily Yoshi can take the stage advantage. Landing the harder punishes from it requires some good reads (harder on faster fallers). Use the move where characters won't have a chance to get the speed to go over the grab and punish Yoshi.

In most cases, you don't want to be approaching more than most situations. Yoshi doesn't cover space super well unless you can force them into a shield, but he does really well in dealing with shields and containing space for average speedy characters.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Bit of advice if ya'll would be so kind.

What are your bread and butter approaches with Yoshi? Do we have anything that's safe on shield? I get shield grabbed a lot and for characters that can convert off grabs - I get badly punished.

What are your go to kill moves? It seems like it get's to a point where you're either fishing for a fsmash/dsmash or playing against a character where dthrow nair kills (this can be easy to DI though).

How do you deal with characters with command grabs? I have a lot of issues with Ganondorfs side B and Warios bite (the bite in particular) especially since Yoshi is a little on the chubby side.

Lastly, how do you deal with Zelda? In that match up I just get camped hard and any approaches are snubbed out by a fair. She seems hard to approach, how to combo, hard to kill.

Any advice at all on any of the above would be massively appreciated.

Thanks a bunch!

My Bread & Butter:
it highly depends on the MU, but this patch I find myself approaching less against most of the cast (unless the opponent is weak to aggro). If I do approach, I have a lot of options:

throw an egg to cover approach, if I get grabbed, egg bails me out. Most will shield for the egg (especially if you throw it high and force the camera to zoom in) which will give you a free grab.

sometimes I simply SH Nair to approach and make sure to land behind them. Landing behind them can bait a jump OoS Bair or a Dsmash (depending on MU), in which case you can dash pivot grab for punish. Even if you miss the grab, you can retreat pretty safely. If I want to land in front of them, I'll try to either barely tap their shield, or not even hit it and land just out of range for a free grab. Other punishes are good if you can get them out fast enough, but grab will be guaranteed if you bait their's.

Bair is good for approaching. If you see that you're just hitting shield and the opponent is patient enough to grab you, you can waveland behind them out of a SH Bair. It's too fast to read and you get a grab out of it no matter what direction you waveland (granted it successfully baited a shield grab).

Using movement and CC to get them into micro-situations. Dtilt out of CC is ridiculous for making space and controlling the stage. If the opponent doesn't CC it, you get a read situation (micro-situation) to get punishes.

Fair on Shield is good, you just have to space it well and Lcancel. If you do both of those, you can apply pressure to shield with jabs. Play around with the timing of your jabs, if you throw one out, sit for a split second, then throw out a Dsmash. Whether you hit shield or hit the jump OoS, it covers everything (rolls included) except a perfect shield grab on their part (even then, they will take the damage). After doing this, switch it up, see what you can get with different timings. Jab then dash back pivot is another good option. Against someone who gets frazzled (hopefully you've gotten them to that point if they do), just applying repeated first-jab pressure will force a decision or break their shield (95% the former).

Mixing up Nair and Fair lets you land more Fairs. I love doing the fake-out Nair approach to get a free Fair punish on the grab-attempt or the jump OoS.

Rarely as a mixup on a camping opponent I'll use Egglay.

Remember: early Fairs or egg->Fair or fair on jump OoS leads to a knockdown that is rarely teched. That's a FREE Jab reset to FREE punish of your choice (DownB also works well too). This is how I set up some of my kills. Nair, Bair, Ftilt, Utilt, all DIed down or away can lead to a read situation or a Jab Reset. Experiment and see what you can do, Yoshi has almost all kill moves, just gotta see the situations where the stock is over.

How I get Kills

I touched on this above, most of my kills come from outsmarting the opponent with reads, pressure, and spacing.

Applying shield pressure to force rolls or Jump OoS leads to kill moves like Dsmash, Fsmash (the wind-up animation can avoid grabs at the right spacing) and DownB. This is timing and smarts, takes some practice, but it works really well against every caliber of player.

I get about half of my kills from jab resets and tech chases. One of my strengths in smash is to manage micro-situations, which are simply the interactions where me or the opponent only have a set number of options. It lets me live longer, and it helps me extend combos and take stocks. Whenever your opponent hits the ground anywhere, first they have 4 options, Tech left, tech right, tech, and miss-tech. If they miss tech, 5 options, regular get-up, get-up-attack, roll left, roll right, or wait. Waiting can save your stock sometimes. When i play, I make sure if the opponent waits or even misses Tech in most cases, they're punished.

The other ways I kill are from edge guards. Rising Nair off the ledge wrecks most MUs, especially if it's a turnaround after grabbing ledge for invincibility. Dtilting someone off the stage and landing another Dtilt to catch a jump gives you the stock for free in a lot of MUs, especially the Melee Top Tiers. I have a long post on how eggs can affect neutral and ledge play here (http://smashboards.com/threads/new-to-yoshi-or-not-ask-your-questions-here.389416/page-8). But basically, any time I knock some off stage and I'm not close enough to follow up immediately, I throw an egg out in front of them and an egg to land on ledge or to kiss the ledge on the way down. This will help you punish those who can't maneuver and even punish those who do maneuver. If they go low to void the eggs, downB to ledge and rising Nair. If they go High to avoid eggs, either the ledge egg will hit them or if they go higher than that, you can downB to ledge and catch them. Of course every player reacts and plays differently, adapting is how this game breathes. Once again, experiment! Yoshi is a janktastic character, most of what he does is unexpected, capitalize on that!

Grab Followups are the last major way I kill. Obviously it depends on the MU, but I've found that wasting no time to throw then as soon as you grab them can lead to bad DI. Bad DI means capitalization. Basically, there are 5 categories of characters that I take into account.
These aren't the actual weights of the characters but are categorized by hitstun and horizontal potential after a Dthrow:
1: The Fast-Fallers: Falco, Wolf, Fox, Falcon, Lucas, Snake, Link and Roy
all can be Usmashed no matter what their DI. You might trade with them if they DI away and jam a response, but that can kill
2: The Heavys: Ganon, Ness, Ike, Sheik, Bowser Diddy Kong, Lucario, Donkey Kong, Squirtle, Toon Link, Pika, DDD, metaknight.
These characters have enough influence at high percents to avoid something hard like a Usmash but can still be hit by it fi their DI is off. Most of these characters are better off Naired or Faired if they DI away.
3: Mediums: Mario, Wario, Charizard, Zero suit, Ivy, ICs, G&W, Marth, Kirby, Olimar, Sonic.
you can reliably get followups on every one of these, but Usmash is not viable for kill and you have to react or read fast off of a Dthrow to claim your aerial followup. Sometimes your followup is going to be a weak Nair, sometimes it's a simple Uair for the kill. Just remember if you act fast, the opponent has to react on your terms and catching bad DI is just a reaction away
4: Semi Floaties: Mewtwo, Samus, Peach, Jiggs, Luigi
These characters aren't impossible to follow up on, but they all have quirks that make them hard to capitalize. Mewtwo is an easy kill if he doesn't DI away, but you have to be very fast and aim Uair for his tail Hurtbox. Samus can trade if she DIs away, and can stuff you with a bomb if she DIs up. If she DI's anywhere between those, it's a Uair for kill. If you're precise enough, you can use the bomb to slightly extend the hurtbox like using the baloon on smashville, but it's iffy. Peach is the heaviest of this category, but she can react to followups very easily and her aerial mobility allows her to get away with mixing up her DI. You want to play fast and read and adapt. Jiggs is probably the easiest of this group to get followups on, she just last a lot longer because you can only cover a DI away with a weak Nair. if she DIs up you have to be very fastl In between there, you can kill with Niar or Uair. Luigi is the same as Jiggs but can't DI as far away. Always weak Nair Luigi if he DI's away.
5: Floaty: Zelda, ROB
Zelda, if she DIs up, can Nayru's (Neutral B) and eat any follow up with intangible frames. If she chooses to do that and use a jump to fly up, just pelt her with eggs. If she DI's away she's basically safe.
ROB is the same as jiggs except you have to be faster and he has way more to punish mistakes and more to stuff your followups.

All of these categories are based on higher percents and what can be done out of a Downthrow based on DI and character weight.

Characters with Command grabs:

I outspace them when I know that they either rely on them or use them to mixup.

Ganon: If he's far enough away to do his SideB, he only has that and kick as approach options. Both you can shorthop in place over. The Ganon will want you to shorthop over him but moving towards him so he can later punish you with a Fair or whatever, but short-hopping in place defeats both of those moves, as does pivot grab and general spacing.

Lucario: when fighting a Lucario, I don't want him to land anything on shield or on me at all. IF he does hit me, I DI up and away so his Dash-attack jab command grab doesn't connect or knocks me away. Generally fighting him I just bait his approaches and punish whatever he tries (dash attack and his phantom dash for positioning is all he has for real approaches/combo starters).

Bowser: I outspace him and I have come to recognize the moments when he wants the command grab (don't ever go near ledge unless you're in the air). If he's above you (not directly) he has the mixups of his aerials and command grab. All have approximately the same range, so just outspace and get a grab on his Lcancel or missed grab.

Wario: Bite is an awesome mixup, but it has a lot of endlag on miss, just dash dance away from him if he's coming at you from the air, you'll avoid everything Wario has to throw at you, even his aerials if you just outspace the Bite. If he misses a few times in a row, he'll revert to just normal approaches. If he lands it over and over, he'll keep using it.

Zelda:

Honestly Thanks to @Mumbo I think that Peach is the hardest MU now due to Yoshi's grab changes. But Zelda is still a hard MU. The changes to Din's Fire take away from her camping ability in my opinion, since yo can just proc the charge any time you want (bonus that only 1 can be out). Her Neutral B and Kicks do make it hard to approach, but early grabs on her, even when eating % with grab armor, can put pressure on her. Empty hops can do wonders and her grab is shorter than it used to be, so the "Fake" Nair can work wonders. Overall, Zelda is not a fast character by any means, so use Yoshi's randomness and speed to apply pressure. Even if you're not getting good combos or even landing hits, if you can make the Zelda move around or have to adapt, you can gain a good edge on her. In my opinion, if I can get the Zelda to start using her teleport for mobility, I win. Zelda's teleport mobility is basically Mewtwo's except she has to land on the ground and she wants to either land close enough for something fast (grab, Tilts, Fsmash), or she wants to land on you to knock you away. It's Mewtwo's teleport without the aerial versatility. Continue to be mobile and just out-think her in any way you can. Lastly, whenever you knock Zelda into the air, pelt her with eggs. She has a very hard time getting back to the ground without teleport and that's one of the ways you can force her to adapt into teleport mobility.


I really hope this helps you and anyone else who wants to read it. This is generally how I think minus a few details, please tell me your thoughts, criticisms, etc.

 

[deeseejay]

This was all absolutely incredible, thank you.

Gave me lots to think about/work on.

Can't thank you all enough. Expect some footage of gameplay soon :>

 

[TomBoComBo]

ooh, same from me. I can finally record stuff

 

[@aboy]

Forgive me if this has been asked and answered elsewhere, but for this patch who is a solid secondary that covers Yoshi's shortcomings? I have played a large variety of other characters when I'm losing friendlies to see who works best but I've not yet found a perfect match. From what I've seen in my gameplay, I suffer when I can't get anything started, I sometimes have issue closing out a stock, and I hate getting zoned out. I've dabbled with Bowser (because he's big and bad, no other reason), Wario (for the air speed, combos, and bite) and very recently Snake (because he just looks fun). I don't feel like these characters really cover and compliment my Yoshi, though, so I'm looking for any input.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Forgive me if this has been asked and answered elsewhere, but for this patch who is a solid secondary that covers Yoshi's shortcomings? I have played a large variety of other characters when I'm losing friendlies to see who works best but I've not yet found a perfect match. From what I've seen in my gameplay, I suffer when I can't get anything started, I sometimes have issue closing out a stock, and I hate getting zoned out. I've dabbled with Bowser (because he's big and bad, no other reason), Wario (for the air speed, combos, and bite) and very recently Snake (because he just looks fun). I don't feel like these characters really cover and compliment my Yoshi, though, so I'm looking for any input.

The only MU I consider worth covering for is peach, but even then I personally just stay Yoshi because he' hands down my strongest. Try falcon, hes a good change of pace

 

[@aboy]

I've always liked Falcon. I think I'll try him out. I don't think I'll swap to him often; I'll probably just Falcon when I can't find any options with Yoshi.

Edit: I should ask, how do you see Falcon covering Yoshi's weaknesses?

 

[Feral Cadence]

Most of the issues I have playing as Yoshi, as far as matchups are concerned, have to do with dealing with large disjoints or projectiles. I've got a pocket Link, mainly because he was my main once upon a time, but also because he deals with disjoints a lot easier by not letting them in in the first place.

 

[Getsafe]

I've always liked Falcon. I think I'll try him out. I don't think I'll swap to him often; I'll probably just Falcon when I can't find any options with Yoshi.

Edit: I should ask, how do you see Falcon covering Yoshi's weaknesses?

Because falcon is obnoxiously good and beats pretty much everyone. Down throw knee destroys floatys, up throw knee destroys everyone else, along with his 10000000000 other set ups into guaranteed knee.

 

[DankPancake]

Can anyone give some advice on the Lucas MU?
I have a hard time dealing with the shield presssure, and the pk freeze.

 

[AngryPiratehat]

Can anyone give some advice on the Lucas MU?
I have a hard time dealing with the shield presssure, and the pk freeze.

Depending on the skill level, you can actually DJC nair to stop the freezes. Either kick them or armor through. Comboing him shouldn't be too difficult either considering his fall speed. I'd say try to stay out of shield though and space well. Hopefully someone with more experience can give you more than me though.

 

[Dyl9]

Hyperflame's Lucas guide outlines a few ways to beat out PKF

https://youtu.be/Z8xqoVdcsvc?t=14m58s

It would be a pretty good idea to watch the whole thing to understand the character further.
As for the shield pressure, treat Lucas like a space animal. He can be 100% safe on shield against us with multimagnet (iirc the only real way to attack him out of it is shine OOS) so all he has to do is pressure us and try to catch out escape. Our main escaping options are buffered rolls, fullhop, empty double jump (for the armour because most of Lucas' fast moves are weak). If you spot a big enough opening in their pressure you can counter attack with DJC nair or DJL into anything if the Lucas is bad enough to leave an opening that big.

The most important thing out of all of this is to never become predictable. Any good Lucas will be paying attention to any patterns in the options you chose, so make sure to be as random as possible, or if you read that they are going to commit to a read (DACUS to get an early kill off buffered roll etc.) then you can attempt to punish.

TL,DR : Don't be aggressive OOS, Lucas should always have relatively airtight pressure, just focus on escaping. Chose these OOS options as unpredictably as possible.

 

[Kneato]

Matchup from 's Perspective (+3 has Yoshi winning)

+3:
+2:
+1:

0:
-1:
-2:
-3:

?:

What do you guys think? Anything wildly inaccurate? What about the unknown matchups?

Not my opinion. This is for updating the (outdated) community matchup chart.

 

[Damp]

ICs should be +3. Peach is even. Wario is -2.

 

[AngryPiratehat]

So is Zard an easy match up? I've been playing a lot with a friend who plays Zard and I can't get in safely at all. I mean... the jab is so weird that I can't even power through it with a DJC nair. It's made me a lot saltier than I care to admit...

 

[Damp]

So is Zard an easy match up? I've been playing a lot with a friend who plays Zard and I can't get in safely at all. I mean... the jab is so weird that I can't even power through it with a DJC nair. It's made me a lot saltier than I care to admit...

Zard should be pretty easy. He has no safe OoS options, so fair on shield into double jab down b is basically safe. Just get in to him and pressure pressure pressure with djc aerials and jabs.

 

[AngryPiratehat]

Double jab combos into down b safely? the things you learn on smashboards holy crap.

 

[Animignis]

Any tips on the Ike MU? It's really difficult to space against his quick-draw and I'm not entirely sure how to edge-guard him.

 

[AngryPiratehat]

Any tips on the Ike MU? It's really difficult to space against his quick-draw and I'm not entirely sure how to edge-guard him.

i'd say for quick draw if you're worried he's gonna go in, if the stage has platforms you should at least make it difficult. so don't be on his same level if you can help it. either that or try to reaction roll through it (though this might not be safe especially if you do it so often he can predict it).

Edge guarding ike is probably one of the more difficult things about fighting him, but while he's doing the flips for his up-b you can at least hit him. I usually go for off stage rising nair cuz it's so good to try to stop the quick draw though (might not be safe either).

Though when i've fought ike i have found that comboing him to a percent where d-smash will send him too far to recover isn't particularly hard with djs-up-air at your disposal and the nasty angle that d-smash sends at.