Project M vs Melee

[Zodiac]

This thread is here to discuss the effect project m might have on the melee scene, IF it is successful that is.

Will it hurt the scene or help it? And more importantly, if the finished project truly does feel like melee how many of you will be fine with leaving melee behind and moving to project m?

 

[rpgfighter]

Something that is trying to be Melee will never be as good as real Melee.

So it wont change thing, or if anything people will go "O lemme try project M." Then they will realize how much they miss Melee and how better of a game it was and we might get more people to show up. This is unlikely though.

 

[dragnet4000]

Im guessing that it would be a decent thing to do if you want the cast of brawl. However, rpg is right, Melee is the best.
You can't mess with perfection.

 

[Lovage]

the people that already love melee aren't gonna "switch" to project M no matter how good they make it

the people that are already dissatisfied with brawl (this is a huge group of people) will use it as a stepping stone to play melee. or at worst, to just not play brawl

i'm totally fine with it and i think they're doing a good job so far

 

[#HBC | Mac]

project m ****s on melee cuz diddy has air glide tossing

 

[JPOBS]

I havent tried project M, but people who love melee will always play melee.

Maybe some day in the future Project M will become the new "melee" in terms of tournies being Brawl/ProjectM with 64 and melee as side events, but thats a LONG way off.

it could use a renaming before that happens tho. Melee HD remix lol

 

[LLDL]

Project M won't hurt the Melee scene.

 

[Deleted member]

Removed by Moderator

 

[CrypTik]

I've played Project M and it is extremely fun. If I had a copy of it I'm sure I would play it. I would never quit melee but I would spend a lot of time on Project M as well.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

I dont think that it will ever replace melee. Sure its going to bring back most of what we missed, but I would really prefer to play with the melee stage list and graphics. Project M will be fun to play and be ALOT better than brawl, but theres just no replacing melee. ever. its a perfect game...

 

[Melomaniacal]

A hack can never replace the actual game. It will be a fun little thing on it's own and it might get some side events, but it can never be standard. It's unreasonable to try to get tournaments with only hacked Wiis involved, or with enough SD cards to cover them all.

 

[EPsilon933]

Currently, Project M feels so bad. Melee Zelda is the opposite of Project M Zelda. PM Zelda has a broken wavedash and usmash which should normally suck, and her toes in Project M don't **** like they do in Melee. It's far from being anywhere close to perfect, and they want to release it when it's perfect.

But I think the real limiting factor about Project M is that it's a hack. Look at Brawl+. It's at most only a side event at any big tournament.

You can't mess with perfection.

You better not be saying Melee is perfect.

 

[Lovage]

who gives a **** about zelda

 

[TheManaLord]

^. ^ Zelda

 

[Strong Badam]

if anything it'll help the melee scene, as people not currently playing melee may enjoy project m and then try out its inspiration.
i don't see a problem with Project M / Melee tournaments. I mean, big tourneys like Genesis, Apex and Pound 5 manage to be huge with Brawl alongside Melee, so Project M would be wayyy better to have alongside Melee.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

P:M is a hack, and though I've taken back my respect from everyone who states it's a bad hack w/o playing the final product, it's destiny will be like a hill:

1. Hack is released
2. Hack is very popular as people turn to it.
3. Hack is worthy of tournament organization.
4. Hack is good for side events at best.
5. Hack is played casually.
6. Hack dies, situation resets when a new hack is announced.
Melee is not perfect imo, why doesn't most of the gaming community own GCs over Wiis, Ps3s and ****boxes?

 

[Ruse]

A hack can never replace the actual game. It will be a fun little thing on it's own and it might get some side events, but it can never be standard. It's unreasonable to try to get tournaments with only hacked Wiis involved, or with enough SD cards to cover them all.

Pretty sure you can just load with the same SD card and take it out.

 

[rhan]

Project M for costume hacks and thats it.

I don't want to make things weaker or better for ANY CHARACTER! I just want to play the nearly perfect game that was made.

Edit: In a nutshell

Don't fix it if it ain't broke.

 

[EPsilon933]

I don't want to make things weaker or better for ANY CHARACTER! I just want to play the nearly perfect game that was made.

We should just make burned copies of PAL Melee since It's Melee with updated (slight) character balance. A not-quite-as-top-tier top tier can free up a lot of low tiers like Zelda.

Don't fix it if it ain't broke.

Sheik/Fox/Marth/Falco aint broken?

 

[rhan]

Nope. They're just that good.

 

[Kanelol]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbmSRdk-Mx0

I was dubious regarding P:M when I first heard of it, but the more I see the more impressed and excited I am. It can only do good things for the Melee scene.

 

[Kason Birdman]

i will most definately not play project m. will probably try it. but will still play melee.


i dont think it will affect the scene. melee players will play melee. brawl players will play brawl

 

[john!]

you gotta be real closed-minded to not at least give pm a try. if it's legitimately a more competitive game than melee (which is difficult but possible) then i'll definitely support it. can't really say either way until i actually play it myself. it could be amazing or terrible.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Everyone else needs to get up to fox/falco/sheik/marth/puff level, not bring them down. Thats really what made brawl bad.

 

[EPsilon933]

Everyone else needs to get up to fox/falco/sheik/marth/puff level, not bring them down. Thats really what made brawl bad.

Supposedly, based on data the hackers found, Brawl was to be much better balanced then it is now. This included getting rid of a lot of MK's transcendent priority on his moves, Snake's disjointed hitboxes are from when his model was bigger and they didn't scale it down; grab release issues were to be taken care of, among other things.

If this broken stuff got nerfed, would barlw suck less?

 

[Archangel]

Supposedly, based on data the hackers found, Brawl was to be much better balanced then it is now. This included getting rid of a lot of MK's transcendent priority on his moves, Snake's disjointed hitboxes are from when his model was bigger and they didn't scale it down; grab release issues were to be taken care of, among other things.

If this broken stuff got nerfed, would barlw suck less?

Brawl would still very much suck.

As for the suggestion that this Project hurts Melee... all i'm saying


For now people can say what they want about project M because its not done but in time it looks like things will be pretty much spot on with Melee. Once that happens there won't be much you can say without making yourself look foolish/stubborn. Melee with more stages, Characters, Balance? A world where up to 30 different characters could possibly win a tournament? I think that is worth exploring and one day could take the place of melee once it retires. Say what you want about the idea of something replacing/being better than melee if you want. It won't make you sound cool it just makes you sound close minded. The fact is a game being the same as melee and having newer/better things than it is a GOOD thing.

 

[Strong Badam]

P:M is a hack, and though I've taken back my respect from everyone who states it's a bad hack w/o playing the final product, it's destiny will be like a hill:

1. Hack is released
2. Hack is very popular as people turn to it.
3. Hack is worthy of tournament organization.
4. Hack is good for side events at best.
5. Hack is played casually.
6. Hack dies, situation resets when a new hack is announced.
Melee is not perfect imo, why doesn't most of the gaming community own GCs over Wiis, Ps3s and ****boxes?

your fortune telling is awesome and I'm sure it'll come true.
otherwise you'd look really dumb.

Pretty sure you can just load with the same SD card and take it out.

This no longer works; despite working with Barwl+ in the beginning, we now replace the actual character .pac files in the game, which are loaded when you select your character & stage and it's loading the match, and so the SD card needs to be in at all times.

Rhan: I'm fairly surprised that a Young Link player doesn't think Melee is broken. Nonetheless, you are welcome to play and think whatever you want to.

 

[Archangel]

I thought the same things when I looked at Rhan's main. The only people who may think Melee is perfect have either not played with mid-bottom tiers at the highest lvl or Play Sheik, Fox, Falco, Jiggs at a high enough level to roll over everyone who isn't one of those 4.

 

[Strong Badam]

Melee's gameplay is fun, that's for sure, which is what we're going for in Project M. Game balance is just something that can't be done by a normal game developer.... like Sakurai...

 

[jugfingers]

you gotta be real closed-minded to not at least give pm a try. if it's legitimately a more competitive game than melee (which is difficult but possible) then i'll definitely support it. can't really say either way until i actually play it myself. it could be amazing or terrible.

lol its certainly more iller than brawl, but pretty ****in janky compared to melee.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

no matter how much they try and make them alike, they'll never be close enough to the same.

A game trying to be like melee will never surpass the game, it being better wouldn't really make sense since being better in this case = being more like melee, rite?

i only see the two games supporting each other in tournament play.

The ways it can surpass melee are in character variety and balance issues. Which are awesome things.

PM is really really really fun already, and it's still alpha/beta, within small amounts of time frames they have done tons of work and upgrades and things are constantly improving. Their knowledge for what they're doing is insanely impressive.

The final release is gonna be great and only gonna get better since they can update over-powered things and bugs in no-time

THE ULTIMATE FIX EVER WOULD BE TO MAKE ONLINE PLAY, PLAYABLE. THIS, WOULD ULTIMATELY MAKE PM THE MOST POPULAR SMASH GAME TO DATE, AND FOREVER ON.

P:M is a hack, and though I've taken back my respect from everyone who states it's a bad hack w/o playing the final product, it's destiny will be like a hill:

1. Hack is released
2. Hack is very popular as people turn to it.
3. Hack is worthy of tournament organization.
4. Hack is good for side events at best.
5. Hack is played casually.
6. Hack dies, situation resets when a new hack is announced.
Melee is not perfect imo, why doesn't most of the gaming community own GCs over Wiis, Ps3s and ****boxes?

This isn't like any other brawl hack ever made though. Brawl+ was an attempt but clearly it didn't have such an impact like this does, it's certainly something much much different.

Currently, Project M feels so bad. Melee Zelda is the opposite of Project M Zelda. PM Zelda has a broken wavedash and usmash which should normally suck, and her toes in Project M don't **** like they do in Melee. It's far from being anywhere close to perfect, and they want to release it when it's perfect.

But I think the real limiting factor about Project M is that it's a hack. Look at Brawl+. It's at most only a side event at any big tournament.



You better not be saying Melee is perfect.

I may be wrong but if i remember reading from a pM dev earlier, they said they're trying to re-create the top/high tier, and make everyone else slightly better than there melee version. Which means more characters are tourny-viable, and less of everyone playing the same 5-6 characters in tourny. Obviously it's not replicating melee in that sense but not everything should be brought over.

 

[Krautrock]

I basically agree with Spam_arrows. Melee is a great game, and obviously the best of the three smash games released. But anyone who thinks that it is "perfect" is deluding themselves. If it was perfect every character would be truly viable at the highest level of play. Project M is basically an opportunity to update - and yes, improve upon, melee. Anyone that enjoys melee and doesn't at least give it a try is just being stubborn. And doubtless there will be many stubborn people; that's fine - melee itself isn't going away. I'm sure many people will claim they prefer melee for non-gameplay reasons (graphics, sound effects, etc.) and that's legitimate if true. But for a lot of people that claim is purely based on nostalgia.

Project M's biggest obstacle is going to be the fact that it's a mod: not because that gives it no legitimacy, but because the fact that it is able to be changed means people will constantly call for changes to be made. Instead of learning to adapt to the game they're given, people will probably call for patches to adjust their perception of the balance. If Nintendo released patches I'm sure that people would have been *****ing about various aspects of melee since 2001 instead of just playing the **** game. This is a pretty serious problem, and it seriously derailed Brawl+. The project M team is being pretty wise about this so far, but they're definitely going to have to develop a pretty good release/patch strategy in order to prevent this from happening. Hell, maybe they already have. They're pretty on top of their ****.

 

[Problem2]

THE ULTIMATE FIX EVER WOULD BE TO MAKE ONLINE PLAY, PLAYABLE. THIS, WOULD ULTIMATELY MAKE PM THE MOST POPULAR SMASH GAME TO DATE, AND FOREVER ON.

I forgot about this. This could probably be the reason to use PM for those with extremely good internet connections, but I see the lag being a huuuuge problem. I have enough trouble trying to play Brawl online. (which I gave up on)

 

[Archangel]

Melee's gameplay is fun, that's for sure, which is what we're going for in Project M. Game balance is just something that can't be done by a normal game developer.... like Sakurai...

****!!!!

I must admit the smash community as a whole has overall always lacked foresight. Thats everyone from 64-Brawl. I mean nobody new Melee would be as good as it was overall. Same things goes for Brawl being as crappy as it was. If you did know then your *** wouldn't have gone out and bought the game in the first place. So these same people are now saying they can predict the future? I'm sorry but I ain't buying that.

As for Project M....You can only compare it to Melee because its not done. Once it is finished then you can't compare it to melee because...it'll be melee with more.

dumb-*** responses Nothing can replace melee/Melee is perfect/Nothing good can come from brawl/This project even when 100% completed will not equal Melee/Just play melee or Brawl/Lightning never strikes twice in the same place/I have a dream/Goonies never say die!.....etc

just letting you know in advance to stfu and just...don't post here.....

 

[Strong Badam]

I honestly don't mind the responses like "It'll never be the same" or "Just play Melee." If in the end this game is 2 good and people play Project M & Melee equal amounts of time (Considering the gameplay will be nearly the same; as of now I can seamlessly change between the two without needing to adjust), they'll be the ones losing out. So far everyone I've shown it to has been interested in the project.

No, it won't be the same as Melee. Why would we make a terribly balanced game? LOL

I mean, come on. This game is rated M for Melee by the ESRB. What more do you want?

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

just letting you know in advance to stfu and just...don't post here.....

lol, i think everyone can freely post their opinions here.

 

[ArstNeio]

I feel like people are tainted by the outcome of Brawl. Back when Brawl came out everyone expected it to be Melee 2.0, and nobody made the "Just play Melee" argument. Everyone seemed willing to accept Brawl, until it turned out to be major lamezor.

That said, perhaps it is best to approach Project M the way we originally approached Brawl, before we actually found out about it: an approach of genuine excitement, and an approach where we truly look forward to what it could be. This sort of "Just play Melee" mentality never happened as Brawl was coming out, and it shouldn't now, either, not before we actually play the game.

We didn't just dismiss Brawl, and we shouldn't just dismiss P:M. Let's give it a try.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

I feel like people are tainted by the outcome of Brawl. Back when Brawl came out everyone expected it to be Melee 2.0, and nobody made the "Just play Melee" argument. Everyone seemed willing to accept Brawl, until it turned out to be major lamezor.

That said, perhaps it is best to approach Project M the way we originally approached Brawl, before we actually found out about it: an approach of genuine excitement, and an approach where we truly look forward to what it could be. This sort of "Just play Melee" mentality never happened as Brawl was coming out, and it shouldn't now, either, not before we actually play the game.

We didn't just dismiss Brawl, and we shouldn't just dismiss P:M. Let's give it a try.

 

[Archangel]

I feel like people are tainted by the outcome of Brawl. Back when Brawl came out everyone expected it to be Melee 2.0, and nobody made the "Just play Melee" argument. Everyone seemed willing to accept Brawl, until it turned out to be major lamezor.

That said, perhaps it is best to approach Project M the way we originally approached Brawl, before we actually found out about it: an approach of genuine excitement, and an approach where we truly look forward to what it could be. This sort of "Just play Melee" mentality never happened as Brawl was coming out, and it shouldn't now, either, not before we actually play the game.

We didn't just dismiss Brawl, and we shouldn't just dismiss P:M. Let's give it a try.

I pretty much love you. Thats all I'll say

 

[shanus]

I just want to throw in a little color here. One of the main goals of the project is the idea of transferability. If we do our jobs right, characters should feel close (I can't say identical because rewriting the havoc engine to match melee would be impossible) to melee. While you might think, "oh noes, they trying to steal my melee scene," we aren't. We are trying to make a game that feels like melee, plays like melee, but has an expanded roster and some some other fun additions and balance changes.

If anything, as some have mentioned, Project M benefits the melee scene. I feel an example here would be better than any other way of describing it. A friend of mine had never played competitive melee and never would consider playing it against me. He got into brawl, got bored with it, and now plays project m. After learning the technical aspects of PM (which offer similar timings - note the transferability), a few weeks ago we boot up melee and he plays on an entirely different level than before. A player who is good in melee will be good in Project M. A player who is good in Project M should be transferable to melee as well. The goal of the project is for a fun game, and I've been amazed at how receptive and supportive the melee community has been. I hope many of you do give it a try when it comes out, as feedback is key to getting things done properly. Thanks, feel free to ask q's too if you have any.


Oh and regarding Zelda, we haven't done *any* fine-tuning to her whatsoever. We have barely touched her physics (I think just the other day we refined her friction and upB), but have barely focused on low tier refinements yet. We are trying a top-down approach first refining top tiers physics, movesets, etc, and moving our way slowly down the pipe. Hope this gives you some insight, Epsilon. Remember you are using an alpha product when you complain