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Project M Social Thread

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leelue

leelue

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I don't know how people "imagine" a character's playstyle. "With a good punish game", "Good combos", "Like Falcon". What are these things based on?
I'm not being dismissive, I'm actually curious.

I don't really have an opinion about him either way. Either I'll like him or I won't.

I do have to say that I disagree with most, if not all, of the comparisons made by DrSus.

I would also have to say to UnholyDeath that his "irrelevant comments" weren't supposed to be constructive; he felt as though he was not given a legitimate answer and was expressing his discontent with what he felt like was a brushing aside of his criticisms.
 
JCaesar

JCaesar

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http://www.twitch.tv/jcaesar. cmart and 9K are here, and GodsLAFCO should be coming over later.

I'd be happy to take requests and answer any questions that I'm able to answer. And I'd also be glad to show why Wolf is beast and has a sick pressure game.
 
Krautrock

Krautrock

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How fast is Wolf's falling speed? Is he a true fast faller like the other spacies or more of a semi-fast faller like Roy? And how about DDD?
 
Shadic

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PurDi said:
You've received a lot of controversial feedback for character like wolf because he feels wrong and you haven't addressed it; nor have you taken into account WHY we don't like him. Saying 'if you don't like him, don't play him' is that same as the brawl players getting mad a project m and saying just play melee. it's not an argument at all. Most of the brawl newcomers designs are either gimmicky or nothing special... Everyone either feels over the top or like sheik. The only ones I can say turned out decently are DDD, Wario and Lucas. Everyone else looks like a simple pick up and play character or a poor design (aside from Lucario).
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On one hand, we have you and Marf saying that you dislike Wolf.

On the other hand, we have SilentWolf and Magus who are large fans of the character. Two high-level players who have actually played the character to a large extent and have helped in his development.
 
N

NeoZ

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PurDi said:
Strong Bad... That's just a cop out for explaining. The PMBR does this a lot.

You've received a lot of controversial feedback for character like wolf because he feels wrong and you haven't addressed it; nor have you taken into account WHY we don't like him. Saying 'if you don't like him, don't play him' is that same as the brawl players getting mad a project m and saying just play melee. it's not an argument at all. Most of the brawl newcomers designs are either gimmicky or nothing special... Everyone either feels over the top or like sheik. The only ones I can say turned out decently are DDD, Wario and Lucas. Everyone else looks like a simple pick up and play character or a poor design (aside from Lucario).
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From people who haven't even played the game...
I don't think they care too much about this "feedback".
 
Grim Tuesday

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I don't really understand the "you haven't even played it" argument.
I'm pretty happy with Wolf, really. So I'm playing devil's advocate here, but...

They are complaining about Wolf's playstyle, right? Why would their opinion of his playstyle change by playing the game? I can tell you exactly how Pikachu works and what all his moves are used for just from watching videos of Axe, and I've barely touched Pikachu on my own copy of Melee.
 
Sapphire Dragon

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I'm pretty sure he was talking about Wolf's P:M playstyle. No matter what it was in Brawl, it will be different in P:M. He may have new moves, different damage/knockback, and he will also be within Melee's physics. Almost everything will be different, if not everything.
 
Jonny Westside

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All of this Wolf talk is making me salivate... O_O 9 more days :'( I CAN MAKE IT! D:
 
cmart

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@ Grim Tuesday: The reason we fall back on that statement is that I R Marf is not really describing Wolf's playstyle accurately. So we say to wait till you can play it yourself so that you can make fully informed criticisms, rather than all of this aggressive theory-craft. And we do listen to informed feedback - several demo characters (Lucas, GnW, probably others I'm forgetting) received development attention directly in response to public feedback - so we DO listen to you guys. Once the demo comes out, we'll be all ears.
 
hotdogturtle

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Grim Tuesday said:
I don't really understand the "you haven't even played it" argument.
I'm pretty happy with Wolf, really. So I'm playing devil's advocate here, but...

They are complaining about Wolf's playstyle, right? Why would their opinion of his playstyle change by playing the game?
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Because they don't know his playstyle without playing as him.
 
I R MarF

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If the pmbr says on their official website that Wolf is designed to be a juggling character and furthermore, elaborate on a moveset which seemingly only caters to a juggling playstyle, aka the things I am disagreeing with, then how are my complaints speculations? Saying my disagreement is speculations suggests the pmbr is making speculations on their own characters' designs. All my evidence came from you guys.
 
G

genkaku

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I know peach's entire moveset from watching vids. How can that translate into my knowing the character as well as armada or any other peach main? It can give me a better idea, sure, but there's absolutely no way that I can claim to know peach without actually spending time playing the game. Melee is far too complex with far too many nuances.
Voicing concerns is one thing. Making ultimatums is another entirely. Asking questions is a better idea than making accusations that (to those that actually have spent time exploring more than the character's face value by playing as them for long periods of time and in many different situations) will sound baseless, even if you personally feel like they're valid concerns.
I personally am concerned that wolf's pressure game will not require or even be capable of the same finesse as the other spacies. So I ask specific questions about shieldstun and endlag duration and stuff, watch streams, think about things, and wait the 9 freakin days for demo 2. I don't just skip all that, hop on the forum and say "wolf sucks because you're stupid and your argument is invalid."
 
Sapphire Dragon

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Grim Tuesday said:
...Do you think I'm stupid? o_O
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No, I don't think you're stupid. I probably didn't explain that the right way, so I'll try again.

Why would their opinion of his playstyle change by playing the game?
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Because this game hasn't even been released yet. His metagame has not been established within the new changes that P:M will have for Wolf. The people playing preview videos were showing you a taste of what he will be like, not the entire metagame. The playstyles will differ with the metagame, and thus will change once people actually know what he is like instead of theorizing what he is like based on Brawl.
 
I R MarF

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Sapphire Dragon said:
No, I don't think you're stupid. I probably didn't explain that the right way, so I'll try again.


Because this game hasn't even been released yet. His metagame has not been established within the new changes that P:M will have for Wolf. The people playing preview videos were showing you a taste of what he will be like, not the entire metagame. The playstyles will differ with the metagame, and thus will change once people actually know what he is like instead of theorizing what he is like based on Brawl.
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Who is basing this on Brawl? I know nothing about Wolf in Brawl. The complaints are in respect to whether or not he fits into the spacie niche with Fox and Falco. Which, atm, I don't think he does because Fox and Falco don't have strict playstyles whereas Wolf has this "juggling" ness
 
Sapphire Dragon

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Ahh, I see, my bad. Thought you were talking about Brawl. x.x Well, in that case, I'm sure the PMBR knows about the spacie niche and can change Wolf according to how they see fit. I'm not really sure he has to be in a specific niche at all, though. Whatever happens, everything is subject to change. If Wolf isn't working right, people can complain and they can change things. But yeah, I'll just leave it at that.
 
Shadic

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I R MarF said:
Who is basing this on Brawl? I know nothing about Wolf in Brawl. The complaints are in respect to whether or not he fits into the spacie niche with Fox and Falco. Which, atm, I don't think he does because Fox and Falco don't have strict playstyles whereas Wolf has this "juggling" ness
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Silent Wolf, one of the most technical Melee players out there, has said the following:
Silent Wolf said:
the current wolf doesnt need any meaningless adjustments or stuff like that, especially to his aerials. i feel i have played wolf close to his full potential and his moveset works out very well the way it is, in more ways that people probably know.
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Just saying. SW is a rather well-known spacie main and understands Fox and Falco far better than you do. And he's quite fond of Wolf.
 
UltiMario

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As another person who's played with Wolf, I have to agree he's fun and well-balanced.

Haters are just haters cause they've never touched the characters.
 
curry9186

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Shadic said:
Silent Wolf, one of the most technical Melee players out there, has said the following:


Just saying. SW is a rather well-known spacie main and understands Fox and Falco far better than you do. And he's quite fond of Wolf.
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In other words, everyone can ***** all they want, Wolf is probably not going to change.
 
Strong Badam

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PurDi: As Shadic said, several players in the PMBR enjoy using Wolf including Magus and Silent Wolf, players that are better than most people posting here will ever be. It's impossible to design a character that literally everyone likes; that's because people are different. I don't like using Samus even though she's a perfectly well designed character, and there are several players that enjoy using her. That's how things work.

Anyway I don't even know who wrote Wolf's webpage, but Wolf's comboing ability is conducive to both horizontal and vertical combos via his shine + other moves, and his juggling moves, respectively.
 
hotdogturtle

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Grim Tuesday said:
You left out this part of the post, Hotdog.

notsureifsrs
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On purpose, because I wanted to repond to it separately.

You may know how Pikachu works, or you may only think you know but you actually don't, but either way, if all your knowledge comes from watching videos and not personal Melee experience, then none of your feedback would be a legitimate help for the PMBR to work on Pikachu:M.

Wolf, even without being in Melee, is the same way. Your "knowledge" of Wolf is only second-hand from the people who are currently playtesting Project M. They're the ones who can figure out things, test "TheorySmash" into practice, solve problems and flaws with the character, and invent the new metagame. You can't contribute to any of that by watching videos, no matter how much you know about his frame data or attack attributes.

I did come here to ask a question, before I wrote that post. Is this gonna be in P:M replacing the old version since Mewtwo2000 is the official stage builder?
 
phurgawtin

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So, given that with different physics, different characters can DACUS at different lengths compared to brawl, which characters in P:M have viable DACUS'?

I know Ganondorf and Wario do for sure.
 
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